US military units to stay for South China Sea patrols

[tonbridgebrit]

Lawrence Chee: "They have no interest to start or participate in wars that are expensive ...indeed in the Chinese DNA is an extreme gene that tells them often to mind their own business and not interfere"

There are two sides to the concept of 'minding one's own business.' A naughty boy, when caught with a pile of cookies in his bedroom, can say to his brother; "mind your own business. Don't look at these cookies. Forget you saw them, and don't tell mom."

China is fully engaged in other peoples' business when it suits China Using it's superior military, it took over Tibet. That was Tibetans' business. China still has dozens (or hundreds?) of missiles aimed at Taiwan, that's the business of Taiwanese. China claims territory belonging to India (along two long fronts!), ...that's the business of Indians. It lays claim to an island which lies between Japan and Taiwan. Now it's claiming it owns islands far away from its mainland, which any reasonable/objective people know are owned by the respective countries near the islands.

LC ends his statement with the phrase "....not interfere." Is that a joke? All that's mentioned by me above, is blatant interference. If I take over your house, is that not interference in your affairs? If I take a sword and hold it to the neck of your favorite dog (maybe it's a dashhound?) ....would that constitute interference in your affairs?

I'm still annoyed by the issues that no one on the planet, except me, has floated the idea of the islands (and their surrounding waters) being designated as an International Marine Reserve - owned by no one and everyone. No oil drilling, no overfishing, no militarization. Is that such an alien concept to Asians? Can they not fathom the concept of an area of ocean NOT BEING OWNED by people or countries? Asians already contribute mightily to the Pacific Trash Vortex (PTV - google it), massively polluting the upper Pacific Ocean. Asians are not lifting a finger to do anything about it. Zero. They don't even acknowledge the PTV exists. All study of the PTV has been done by farang.

At the least, Asians can partially compensate by allowing the designation of the SCS as a Marine Reserve.

Boomer, you want to talk about how China is trying to influence and dominate other smaller countries ??

I think you should look at Washington, and note that Washington has targeted a whole load of foreign countries and dominated and influenced them.

I'ill just pick one example, there are many others. Back in 1950, the CIA carried out a coup in Iran, the coup removed an almost democratic Iranian government, and put the puppet Shah in charge of Iran. It was all done to make sure that America would have control of Iran's oil. This is something that Washington and the CIA practically admit to doing. Yes, no need to actually invade a country, just do a coup, and set up a puppet government. This is just one of many examples of Washington controlling other countries. Note that China has to massively increase this type of activity in order to be anywhere near Washington's level.

What about pollution ??

Boomer, the USA (on a PER PERSON basis), produces more pollution than China, and it burns more coal than China as well (on a per person basis).

Some of that coal being burnt in China is being exported there by America and Australia. Also, surely, China SHOULD be allowed to produce more pollution on a per person basis than the USA ? Why ? Well, China is manufacturing a mountain of goods for export to America and the EU ( and export to Japan as well), and so, surely, China should be allowed to burn more coal and produce more pollution ?

Yes, there is surely LESS pollution in America compared to two or three decades ago. Is there, though ? America's manufactring sector has been 'down-sized', a lot of the goods in America (Walmart) are made in China. It's absurd if Americans want to criticise China for pollution !

Yes, having a pop at China, when America has done far worse !

[boomerangutang]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

[LawrenceChee]

Boomer

Actually there is a lot of critique of the government in both platforms

For the families and individuals , this happens every night in families that are politically keen ....like everywhere else there are families that don't care about government and also those who are severely vocal

These are all discussed in family and private meetings and I tell you some of the terms used will make you blush and certainly not as funny as your annual journalist night where you can poke fun at your commander in chief as these are mainly curse words used to talk about inept policies

In the Govt bodies , closed to most people is what the CCP call awakening sessions , the private sector is picked and you can get a real go at Govt officials and make them real uncomfortable in critiquing their policies etc

The south region leads in this and I can tell you the CCP Govt is slowly opening up ...the pace is slow and no one bows to Mao before you make your point.

China is huge and communist and as such for them to make this progress is noteworthy ....it may not be enough for you westerners who are often impatient to see overnight change but for us Asians and for myself who have witness the meetings when I was a young man invited because of my grandad to today's meeting where I participate , I can tell you the pace is certainly encouraging and very different in tone from my grandad times

This is the Asian way , we don't like to embarrass our Politicians or mock them thinking in the overall scheme of things , it belittles them and their ability at the world stage

The Chinese are still uncomfortable with the whole stand up and be noticed thing and as such anything that disrupts social peace is thought in a negative light ...however increasingly they understand this is a risk factor thing and you can let some incidents slide which is why you see more protests allowed and the police is told not to interfere and let the citizens vent their anger ...again I understand this is too slow for the western world but it's at a pace understood by the Chinese

Soon if Trump is elected , he has an ego of a whinny girl and it will be interesting to see if he will take this ribbing in public

Edited April 25, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[ExpatOilWorker]

Good BBC documentary:

[Publicus]

Boomer

Actually there is a lot of critique of the government in both platforms

For the families and individuals , this happens every night in families that are politically keen ....like everywhere else there are families that don't care about government and also those who are severely vocal

These are all discussed in family and private meetings and I tell you some of the terms used will make you blush and certainly not as funny as your annual journalist night where you can poke fun at your commander in chief as these are mainly curse words used to talk about inept policies

In the Govt bodies , closed to most people is what the CCP call awakening sessions , the private sector is picked and you can get a real go at Govt officials and make them real uncomfortable in critiquing their policies etc

The south region leads in this and I can tell you the CCP Govt is slowly opening up ...the pace is slow and no one bows to Mao before you make your point.

China is huge and communist and as such for them to make this progress is noteworthy ....it may not be enough for you westerners who are often impatient to see overnight change but for us Asians and for myself who have witness the meetings when I was a young man invited because of my grandad to today's meeting where I participate , I can tell you the pace is certainly encouraging and very different in tone from my grandad times

This is the Asian way , we don't like to embarrass our Politicians or mock them thinking in the overall scheme of things , it belittles them and their ability at the world stage

The Chinese are still uncomfortable with the whole stand up and be noticed thing and as such anything that disrupts social peace is thought in a negative light ...however increasingly they understand this is a risk factor thing and you can let some incidents slide which is why you see more protests allowed and the police is told not to interfere and let the citizens vent their anger ...again I understand this is too slow for the western world but it's at a pace understood by the Chinese

Soon if Trump is elected , he has an ego of a whinny girl and it will be interesting to see if he will take this ribbing in public

CCP are unaccountable to the people of the People's Republic as its institutions are rigidly controlled from on high.

Internet censorship is astoundingly worse since Xi Jinping came to power to include applying PLA military technology to kill off civilian vpn lines, tunnels, connections by providers as if it were a war. It is a war, for minds and to control the demeanor and the conduct of 1.6 billion minds in the public space.

Everything stated in the post occurs in the context of the 850,000 paramilitary troops of the People's Armed Police run by the internal security ministry. PAP consists of 48 divisions of forces garrisoned in each and every province. Even the most staunch CCP friends of the people, of USA and the West cannot lead their people against the grim reaper. Their liberal policies, no longer tolerated, were never ever more than a drop in the sea.

CCP economic reforms -- no political reforms -- have substantially and significantly failed. Vested interests that did not exist a generation ago are deeply and extensively entrenched. Xi is fighting open criticism in the Party media (removed immediately in each instance of it) because he's made himself more powerful than Mao.

Recall when Xi Jinping disappeared for a week during the transition to him from the hapless Pres. Hu Jintao at the term of Hu's 10 years in office with Xi as vice-president and as Hu's vital ally. Xi self-vanished because Xi hadn't wanted to become leader after all. But here Xi is and here Xi has been. However, one cannot speak any further into the future than to say that, then to pause. As Perry Link of UC Riverside and co-translator of the Tiananmen Papers said long ago, "Xi Jinping is a man of modest intellectual gifts" so his only answer to leading present China is to out-Mao Mao.

As to the SCS, I reiterate that it is increasingly said and with a greater frequency throughout the region and globally that the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

History will judge the leaders including Xi ....in modern day history all have seek a different path and history will judge them all

Putin has decided Ukraine is a new military exercise ground, Kim is playing with his missiles, Cameron is proposing an EU exit, Merkel has adopted a pro refugee status, Turnbull is going for the unions, Xi has decided to tackle corruption and bring the party line back in place as a communist state ...Obama is has taken in Cuba ties and killed Saddam, approved the Arab spring ....

In a complex world of politics, all are seeking their piece in history with unknown results

[keemapoot]

Boomer, your point about the territory grabs by the US through history and its comparison with China's SCS grabs is not comparable in several respects. First, territory is defined by land mass, land territory is occupy-able by people, and that often means displacement, death or injury by the invader which elevates the game. As shown in that video posted by Oilworker the feeble posting of 10 ragged Philippine marines on that old wreck of a ship on the reef is not the same as a highly inhabited place. Therefore, irrespective of the strategic claims of the GPS coordinates, whether or not there is 'inhabitable land' is central to any discussion, and secondly, who claims ownership of that land.

China's reclamation of the reefs and creating islands, which it will then occupy is a very powerful thing to do. It creates a sort of eminent domain where property never existed, which then can be populated by both civilians and military. In other words, it will be hard to dislodge the Chinese once they are installed on those man-made islands, one of which might become an airstrip. The Philippines does not have the resources to run with China on this issue, and everyone knows it. The US is going to have to basically do a formal adoption (in spite of the protection treaty) of the Philippines to protect them on this issue and take a much larger role superseding Philippine military and security. I wonder if everyone realizes how much that will cost in time, money, resources, political capital and other costs, and whether the Philippine people will be willing to live under that kind of obligation again.

*And then what? Rinse and repeat with respect to Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia? Chase China around the SCS like the little dutch girl trying to plug the hole in the dyke with her tiny fingers? It will be a very busy and expensive 21st century in the Asia-Pacific and I don't see how we will have the money to do this and to build a wall against Mexico if Trump gets elected.

Edited April 25, 2016 by keemapoot

[boomerangutang]

It's good the US election season is dragging on. People worldwide can observe and comment on it. It's easy to poke holes at Trump and other candidates. Ha ha ha. But then, for Chinese and Thais, for example, another set of thoughts may creep in..... Maybe some are thinking, "wow, it's a circus, but at least the candidates are able to speak their minds. And just as important: the general public can respond in any ways they want. What unusual concepts!"

In Thailand, there are no televised debates and no town hall meetings leading up to elections. In China it's worse. In both countries, the party or parties in charge simply pick the old man/men they want for top spots, and that's it. The party assumes everyone knows what the issues are (and how the sheeple should see them), so why discuss them? If there were debates, defamation of character lawsuits would get slapped (or threatened) right and left. Actually, worse than lawsuits; two guards would show up, grab the person who said the wrong things, and that person wouldn't be heard from again for months. When he returned (from some undisclosed place on the mainland), he wouldn't tell where he'd been, ....he would simply say something like: "I had to go away. I can't talk about why or what happened."

Chinese watching the US election process, when they're done chuckling at the circus atmosphere, might sit back and think, "wow, I wonder if we can have a process where candidates actively vie with one another, to see who gets the most votes from the general public. Two parties engaged in active campaigning?! Naw, let's stick with what we're used to: One party, One set of old men. Everyone thinks the same on all issues. Simple. Uncomplicated. No one will laugh at us."

"We're all told by our leaders that the islands in the South China Sea have always been Chinese, so that must be the only way it can be. And if our sage government puts missiles on the islands, well, they must know best. Even if we don't like it, there's nothing we can do about it. Speak up and say anything different than the party line, and get a trip to prison."

[LawrenceChee]

Hahahahaha Keemapoot !

In all the serious postings we should take a light start to the day !!!

I'm sure someone is busy typing out a 10 page rebuttal and will post by lunch.

Be funny to see Trump build the wall ...since I am in the hotel business I will be the first to say Trump hotels are very badly run and almost an ego display

The wall will be his crowning glory if he wins ....I bet Comrade Xi will send him some free labor seeing we have experience building useless walls or the Mexicans getting deported may be asked to do a week of free labor before popping back home

If Trump wins, I will be the first to propose to the CCP to buy up Trump hotels group and transform them into Tian Hotel group

I will populate them with Chinese artefacts and paintings , hire Mexican workers to cook Cantonese cuisine.

Everyone who reads my other postings know besides my China views , my next big passion is proper Chinese food ))) and Dim Sum

Heck I will do the project for free just to see his face when we re-open the doors ....forgo the fees !

Hahhahah hahahhah

Edited April 25, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[AYJAYDEE]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

congratulations! you can acknowledge the vile things your government has done around the world. unfortunately you cant DO anything about them.

[tonbridgebrit]

Good BBC documentary:

Thanks ExpatOilWorker, for putting this up. From the BBC, a genuine good source of information.

The report mentions briefly how little Taiwan (Republic of China) also has a small claim to the islands !!

Ha ! Look Taiwan, when YOU left China, when YOU left main-land China, you threw away (relinquished) ALL RIGHTS regarding YOU being China.

Today, five nations are permanentt members of the UN Security Council. They are Britain, USA, France, Russia and China. That's because those five countries won World War Two. Taiwan, you're NOT China, stop claiming certain rights as if YOU are China. You're not. Whatever islands in the Pacific, in the South China Sea, whoever they belong to, they don't belong to YOU.

[tonbridgebrit]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

Boomer, you want to say that Washington has made mistakes over the decades ??

Wait a minute. I'm trying to say, that Washington has carried out a campaign of taking over a whole load of countries ever since World War Two ended. Washington tries to portray an image that America's foreign policy is based on trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. In my opinion, Washington's real intent is certainly not this. America simply wants to carve out the new American Empire.

To Washington, it's not about spreading freedom and democracy. It's about taking over foreign countries, and exploiting them for America's benefit. What's the difference between Beijing and Washington ? Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread freedom and democracy, but Beijing has no need to make it look as if it is trying to spread freedom and democracy.

People want to accuse Beijing of doing deals with African countries, in order to get their natural resources. Yes, the accusations are true. But, but, look at Washington. America is certainly IN with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country that is NOT democratic, they DO have human rights abuse, and they have LITTLE freedom of speech.

And here's me, being highly suspicious about Washington's intent in Asia !!

[AYJAYDEE]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

Boomer, you want to say that Washington has made mistakes over the decades ??

Wait a minute. I'm trying to say, that Washington has carried out a campaign of taking over a whole load of countries ever since World War Two ended. Washington tries to portray an image that America's foreign policy is based on trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. In my opinion, Washington's real intent is certainly not this. America simply wants to carve out the new American Empire.

To Washington, it's not about spreading freedom and democracy. It's about taking over foreign countries, and exploiting them for America's benefit. What's the difference between Beijing and Washington ? Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread freedom and democracy, but Beijing has no need to make it look as if it is trying to spread freedom and democracy.

People want to accuse Beijing of doing deals with African countries, in order to get their natural resources. Yes, the accusations are true. But, but, look at Washington. America is certainly IN with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country that is NOT democratic, they DO have human rights abuse, and they have LITTLE freedom of speech.

And here's me, being highly suspicious about Washington's intent in Asia !!

they love to play hair splitting word games and pretend that because they leave a puppet government in place in the countries they enslave economically that it isnt a real empire in the traditional sense of the word.

[tonbridgebrit]

There are more balanced and effective approaches, that leverage all the countries who have claims, but it requires tremendous leadership in foreign policy. I wonder if Clinton's secretary of State will be up to the task?

Like what? What sort of "balanced and effective approaches" would get the Chinese to go back to China? If you ask me, Nothing short of military or the real threat of military action.

The Phil Navy could send war ships out to take back their islands, but that would only provoke a military response from China, and it's plain that, given a few days, China could mobilize an awesome force. It's similar for Vietnam re; the Paracels.

Citizens in respective countries could enact demonstrations such as carrying placards and chanting in front of embassies (Fils demonstrating at the Chinese embassy in Manila, and/or Chinese demonstrating at the Fil Embassy in Beijing). Yet such actions wouldn't accomplish anything other than gain headlines in newspapers.

Sadly, I think the world has to accept China's commandeering of the islands. The only action that would get Chinese to leave is military, and it's doubtful that will happen - because repercussions (cyber war by Chinese, and harming farang tourists in China) will be too dire a collateral price to pay. If it were just a brief military conflict like the Falklands, then it would be fathomable and (in my view) worthwhile. But Chinese citizens will go ballistic en masse, and that could have unforeseen repercussions.

We've seen what they can do in frenzied group-think. It wasn't so long ago, during the Cultural Revolution, where professors were killed in public and many of Tibet's centuries-old temples were defaced and monks killed. It doesn't take much to get a group-think frenzy going in countries like China or N.Korea.

This $1 billion CCP oil drilling rig aka 981 is again 126 miles off the coast of Vietnam, i.e., within the territorial Economic Exclusion Zone of the Republic of Vietnam.

CCP Dictators in Beijing continue to ignore the Asean-CCP agreed Code of Conduct for the South China Sea, since 2012 when CCP busted up the Asean annual meeting in Cambodia with the support of |Asean members Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar.

CCP is also ignoring the Declaration of Conduct by Parties in the South China Sea which had also been agreed by Asean and CCP but which CCP also sabotaged in Cambodia in 20012.

CCP is uncompromising, unreasonable, irrational, arbitrary, arrogantly scolding and lecturing, in its determination to become an East Asia hegemon and to transmogrify both the SCS into a Chinese lake and Asean itself into a grouping of CCP China tributary states. As the West learned from 1920 to 1945, there is only one way to deal with an aggressive and absolutist dictatorship that sees itself as superior and as inherently entitled.

Friday, 8 April 2016

Vietnam has demanded that China remove an oil exploration rig from a sea area where the countries are still negotiating a delineation of control.

Foreign Minstry spokesman Le Hai Binh said that Vietnam opposes China's actions and urges China to contribute to peace and stability in the region.

The Haiyang Shiyou oil rig was at the center of standoff between the countries in 2014 when China parked the oil rig near the Paracel islands that Vietnam claims as its exclusive economic zone.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/asiapacific/2016/04/08/vietnam-demands-china-to-remove-oil-rig.html#sthash.L205T5pG.dpuf

May 7, 2014

Up to 21 dead as anti-China riots spread in Vietnam

Anti-China riots erupted in industrial zones in the south of the country on Tuesday after protests against Beijing placing an oil rig in a part of the South China Sea claimed by Hanoi.

China expressed serious concern over the violence in Vietnam and urged it to punish criminals and compensate victims. Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying suggested Hanoi had turned a blind eye to the protesters.

"The looting and stealing that has taken place at Chinese businesses and to Chinese people has a direct relationship with Vietnam's winking at and indulging law breakers there.

https://news.vice.com/article/vietnam-is-pissed-that-china-is-blowing-up-the-south-china-sea

"The United States has long said it remains neutral in the dispute and has essentially taken a pretty passive stance as to what's going on in the South China Sea," Michael Mazza, a research fellow with American Enterprise Institute, told VICE News. "I think the United States needs to, in conjunction with its allies and partners in the region, actually come down on at least what it believes are high seas versus territorial waters. And perhaps make some judgment on what are plausible claims and what are not. That can give the United States a baseline from which to act in the region to push back against particularly egregious Chinese behavior, or egregious behavior from others, in order to deter more aggressive activities."

https://news.vice.com/article/vietnam-is-pissed-that-china-is-blowing-up-the-south-china-sea

Yes, them Vietnamese killed about 20 people in them anti-China riots in 2014. We're talking about Chinese-owned companies in Vietnam. There's a lot of Chinese-owned companies in Vietnam. Now, IF it was Americans who were being killed, then what ?

Washington would have carried out an attack and invasion of Vietnam in response !!!

[keemapoot]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

Boomer, you want to say that Washington has made mistakes over the decades ??

Wait a minute. I'm trying to say, that Washington has carried out a campaign of taking over a whole load of countries ever since World War Two ended. Washington tries to portray an image that America's foreign policy is based on trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. In my opinion, Washington's real intent is certainly not this. America simply wants to carve out the new American Empire.

To Washington, it's not about spreading freedom and democracy. It's about taking over foreign countries, and exploiting them for America's benefit. What's the difference between Beijing and Washington ? Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread freedom and democracy, but Beijing has no need to make it look as if it is trying to spread freedom and democracy.

People want to accuse Beijing of doing deals with African countries, in order to get their natural resources. Yes, the accusations are true. But, but, look at Washington. America is certainly IN with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country that is NOT democratic, they DO have human rights abuse, and they have LITTLE freedom of speech.

And here's me, being highly suspicious about Washington's intent in Asia !!

they love to play hair splitting word games and pretend that because they leave a puppet government in place in the countries they enslave economically that it isnt a real empire in the traditional sense of the word.

Of course. All empires aspire to the same objectives and goals. Just study history and it's clear. And, it's natural that the US empire will try to survive as long as possible and that necessarily means playing footsie with its new global competitor, China. Only this time it's different. China, unlike the former Soviet Bear is also America's bff, best friend forever in trade, investment, immigration, mutual brain drain, etc..

So, the rules are very different with this type of competitor. Above all, we should refrain from grandiose political posturing, moral superiority and soapbox chest-beating democracy refrains, and just get to the strategic and tactical business of checking China's ambitions, while simultaneously maintaining the West's interests in the area, and also keeping bff status with our Chinese buddy.

It's the Pacific Century. Let's try to be more sophisticated and realize we're not in Kansas anymore.

Edited April 26, 2016 by keemapoot

[tonbridgebrit]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

Boomer, you want to say that Washington has made mistakes over the decades ??

Wait a minute. I'm trying to say, that Washington has carried out a campaign of taking over a whole load of countries ever since World War Two ended. Washington tries to portray an image that America's foreign policy is based on trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. In my opinion, Washington's real intent is certainly not this. America simply wants to carve out the new American Empire.

To Washington, it's not about spreading freedom and democracy. It's about taking over foreign countries, and exploiting them for America's benefit. What's the difference between Beijing and Washington ? Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread freedom and democracy, but Beijing has no need to make it look as if it is trying to spread freedom and democracy.

People want to accuse Beijing of doing deals with African countries, in order to get their natural resources. Yes, the accusations are true. But, but, look at Washington. America is certainly IN with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country that is NOT democratic, they DO have human rights abuse, and they have LITTLE freedom of speech.

And here's me, being highly suspicious about Washington's intent in Asia !!

they love to play hair splitting word games and pretend that because they leave a puppet government in place in the countries they enslave economically that it isnt a real empire in the traditional sense of the word.

"Enslave economically", I couldn't be more accurate myself !!

Either that, or take their natural resources (oil) on the cheap.

[AYJAYDEE]

There are more balanced and effective approaches, that leverage all the countries who have claims, but it requires tremendous leadership in foreign policy. I wonder if Clinton's secretary of State will be up to the task?

Like what? What sort of "balanced and effective approaches" would get the Chinese to go back to China? If you ask me, Nothing short of military or the real threat of military action.

The Phil Navy could send war ships out to take back their islands, but that would only provoke a military response from China, and it's plain that, given a few days, China could mobilize an awesome force. It's similar for Vietnam re; the Paracels.

Citizens in respective countries could enact demonstrations such as carrying placards and chanting in front of embassies (Fils demonstrating at the Chinese embassy in Manila, and/or Chinese demonstrating at the Fil Embassy in Beijing). Yet such actions wouldn't accomplish anything other than gain headlines in newspapers.

Sadly, I think the world has to accept China's commandeering of the islands. The only action that would get Chinese to leave is military, and it's doubtful that will happen - because repercussions (cyber war by Chinese, and harming farang tourists in China) will be too dire a collateral price to pay. If it were just a brief military conflict like the Falklands, then it would be fathomable and (in my view) worthwhile. But Chinese citizens will go ballistic en masse, and that could have unforeseen repercussions.

We've seen what they can do in frenzied group-think. It wasn't so long ago, during the Cultural Revolution, where professors were killed in public and many of Tibet's centuries-old temples were defaced and monks killed. It doesn't take much to get a group-think frenzy going in countries like China or N.Korea.

This $1 billion CCP oil drilling rig aka 981 is again 126 miles off the coast of Vietnam, i.e., within the territorial Economic Exclusion Zone of the Republic of Vietnam.

CCP Dictators in Beijing continue to ignore the Asean-CCP agreed Code of Conduct for the South China Sea, since 2012 when CCP busted up the Asean annual meeting in Cambodia with the support of |Asean members Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar.

CCP is also ignoring the Declaration of Conduct by Parties in the South China Sea which had also been agreed by Asean and CCP but which CCP also sabotaged in Cambodia in 20012.

CCP is uncompromising, unreasonable, irrational, arbitrary, arrogantly scolding and lecturing, in its determination to become an East Asia hegemon and to transmogrify both the SCS into a Chinese lake and Asean itself into a grouping of CCP China tributary states. As the West learned from 1920 to 1945, there is only one way to deal with an aggressive and absolutist dictatorship that sees itself as superior and as inherently entitled.

Friday, 8 April 2016

Vietnam has demanded that China remove an oil exploration rig from a sea area where the countries are still negotiating a delineation of control.

Foreign Minstry spokesman Le Hai Binh said that Vietnam opposes China's actions and urges China to contribute to peace and stability in the region.

The Haiyang Shiyou oil rig was at the center of standoff between the countries in 2014 when China parked the oil rig near the Paracel islands that Vietnam claims as its exclusive economic zone.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/world/asiapacific/2016/04/08/vietnam-demands-china-to-remove-oil-rig.html#sthash.L205T5pG.dpuf

May 7, 2014

Up to 21 dead as anti-China riots spread in Vietnam

Anti-China riots erupted in industrial zones in the south of the country on Tuesday after protests against Beijing placing an oil rig in a part of the South China Sea claimed by Hanoi.

China expressed serious concern over the violence in Vietnam and urged it to punish criminals and compensate victims. Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying suggested Hanoi had turned a blind eye to the protesters.

"The looting and stealing that has taken place at Chinese businesses and to Chinese people has a direct relationship with Vietnam's winking at and indulging law breakers there.

https://news.vice.com/article/vietnam-is-pissed-that-china-is-blowing-up-the-south-china-sea

"The United States has long said it remains neutral in the dispute and has essentially taken a pretty passive stance as to what's going on in the South China Sea," Michael Mazza, a research fellow with American Enterprise Institute, told VICE News. "I think the United States needs to, in conjunction with its allies and partners in the region, actually come down on at least what it believes are high seas versus territorial waters. And perhaps make some judgment on what are plausible claims and what are not. That can give the United States a baseline from which to act in the region to push back against particularly egregious Chinese behavior, or egregious behavior from others, in order to deter more aggressive activities."

https://news.vice.com/article/vietnam-is-pissed-that-china-is-blowing-up-the-south-china-sea

Yes, them Vietnamese killed about 20 people in them anti-China riots in 2014. We're talking about Chinese-owned companies in Vietnam. There's a lot of Chinese-owned companies in Vietnam. Now, IF it was Americans who were being killed, then what ?

Washington would have carried out an attack and invasion of Vietnam in response !!!

are these companies owned by companies with head offices in china or simply ethnic chinese who are vietnamese citizens?

[AYJAYDEE]

Tonbridge Brit. admittedly, US leaders have been making mistakes over the decades. This thread could devolve to a tit for tat food fight back and forth. I and other Americans can acknowledge the mistakes made by the US. Chinese can't do that for China, at least not publicly. Every Chinese person is required to revere Chairman Mao. Nothing remotely like that happens in the US, in relation to Nixon or Reagan or Bush Jr. or any of the slew of others who have made blatant mistakes.

Americans can say disparaging things about Obama or HRC or Kerry, and it's like water running off a duck's back. Same for US policy, past and present. In China, if anyone said anything publicly which denigrates Li or any of his senior members, woe be unto them. Even a book store manager can get 'disappeared' for putting a book on a shelf which is non-flattering to the power brokers.

That's part of the problem with China's territory-grabs. No Chinese person can speak out publicly against it, unless that person wants to get beaten and thrown in jail. China's leaders tell every citizen how to think about certain topics. Everyone knows what's expected, and everyone knows they have to comply. It's not much different than N.Korea.

Thailand, for its part, always has leaders who are Chinese descent. That's part of the reason Thai leaders kowtow to Chinese demands. No Thai leader would have the courage to speak out against Chinese territory grabs. The same on other topics. The Dalai Lama was invited to visit Thailand. Chinese authorities found out and forced Thai officials to withdraw the invitation. When Bangkok hosted an all-Asia sports event, a Chinese officials noticed a Taiwanese flag flying among the other Asian countries' flags. The Chinese official told the Thai, down came the flag. If China is about to sneeze, Thailand will be there in an instant with a handkerchief. Holding the booger and snot ridden hanky, the Thai official would wai and say, "thank you. Thank you so much for giving of yourself."

Boomer, you want to say that Washington has made mistakes over the decades ??

Wait a minute. I'm trying to say, that Washington has carried out a campaign of taking over a whole load of countries ever since World War Two ended. Washington tries to portray an image that America's foreign policy is based on trying to spread freedom and democracy to the rest of the world. In my opinion, Washington's real intent is certainly not this. America simply wants to carve out the new American Empire.

To Washington, it's not about spreading freedom and democracy. It's about taking over foreign countries, and exploiting them for America's benefit. What's the difference between Beijing and Washington ? Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread freedom and democracy, but Beijing has no need to make it look as if it is trying to spread freedom and democracy.

People want to accuse Beijing of doing deals with African countries, in order to get their natural resources. Yes, the accusations are true. But, but, look at Washington. America is certainly IN with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a country that is NOT democratic, they DO have human rights abuse, and they have LITTLE freedom of speech.

And here's me, being highly suspicious about Washington's intent in Asia !!

they love to play hair splitting word games and pretend that because they leave a puppet government in place in the countries they enslave economically that it isnt a real empire in the traditional sense of the word.

Of course. All empires aspire to the same objectives and goals. Just study history and it's clear. And, it's natural that the US empire will try to survive as long as possible and that necessarily means playing footsie with its new global competitor, China. Only this time it's different. China, unlike the former Soviet Bear is also America's bff, best friend forever in trade, investment, immigration, mutual brain drain, etc..

So, the rules are very different with this type of competitor. Above all, we should refrain from grandiose political posturing, moral superiority and soapbox chest-beating democracy refrains, and just get to the strategic and tactical business of checking China's ambitions, while simultaneously maintaining the West's interests in the area, and also keeping bff status with our Chinese buddy.

It's the Pacific Century. Let's try to be more sophisticated and realize we're not in Kansas anymore.

america doesn't do sophisticated very well

[tonbridgebrit]

Boomer

Actually there is a lot of critique of the government in both platforms

For the families and individuals , this happens every night in families that are politically keen ....like everywhere else there are families that don't care about government and also those who are severely vocal

These are all discussed in family and private meetings and I tell you some of the terms used will make you blush and certainly not as funny as your annual journalist night where you can poke fun at your commander in chief as these are mainly curse words used to talk about inept policies

In the Govt bodies , closed to most people is what the CCP call awakening sessions , the private sector is picked and you can get a real go at Govt officials and make them real uncomfortable in critiquing their policies etc

The south region leads in this and I can tell you the CCP Govt is slowly opening up ...the pace is slow and no one bows to Mao before you make your point.

China is huge and communist and as such for them to make this progress is noteworthy ....it may not be enough for you westerners who are often impatient to see overnight change but for us Asians and for myself who have witness the meetings when I was a young man invited because of my grandad to today's meeting where I participate , I can tell you the pace is certainly encouraging and very different in tone from my grandad times

This is the Asian way , we don't like to embarrass our Politicians or mock them thinking in the overall scheme of things , it belittles them and their ability at the world stage

The Chinese are still uncomfortable with the whole stand up and be noticed thing and as such anything that disrupts social peace is thought in a negative light ...however increasingly they understand this is a risk factor thing and you can let some incidents slide which is why you see more protests allowed and the police is told not to interfere and let the citizens vent their anger ...again I understand this is too slow for the western world but it's at a pace understood by the Chinese

Soon if Trump is elected , he has an ego of a whinny girl and it will be interesting to see if he will take this ribbing in public

CCP are unaccountable to the people of the People's Republic as its institutions are rigidly controlled from on high.

As to the SCS, I reiterate that it is increasingly said and with a greater frequency throughout the region and globally that the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver.

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

[AYJAYDEE]

Boomer

Actually there is a lot of critique of the government in both platforms

For the families and individuals , this happens every night in families that are politically keen ....like everywhere else there are families that don't care about government and also those who are severely vocal

These are all discussed in family and private meetings and I tell you some of the terms used will make you blush and certainly not as funny as your annual journalist night where you can poke fun at your commander in chief as these are mainly curse words used to talk about inept policies

In the Govt bodies , closed to most people is what the CCP call awakening sessions , the private sector is picked and you can get a real go at Govt officials and make them real uncomfortable in critiquing their policies etc

The south region leads in this and I can tell you the CCP Govt is slowly opening up ...the pace is slow and no one bows to Mao before you make your point.

China is huge and communist and as such for them to make this progress is noteworthy ....it may not be enough for you westerners who are often impatient to see overnight change but for us Asians and for myself who have witness the meetings when I was a young man invited because of my grandad to today's meeting where I participate , I can tell you the pace is certainly encouraging and very different in tone from my grandad times

This is the Asian way , we don't like to embarrass our Politicians or mock them thinking in the overall scheme of things , it belittles them and their ability at the world stage

The Chinese are still uncomfortable with the whole stand up and be noticed thing and as such anything that disrupts social peace is thought in a negative light ...however increasingly they understand this is a risk factor thing and you can let some incidents slide which is why you see more protests allowed and the police is told not to interfere and let the citizens vent their anger ...again I understand this is too slow for the western world but it's at a pace understood by the Chinese

Soon if Trump is elected , he has an ego of a whinny girl and it will be interesting to see if he will take this ribbing in public

CCP are unaccountable to the people of the People's Republic as its institutions are rigidly controlled from on high.

As to the SCS, I reiterate that it is increasingly said and with a greater frequency throughout the region and globally that the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver.

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

you wonder? when massive numbers of americans swear their president is a communist? lol

[tonbridgebrit]

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

you wonder? when massive numbers of americans swear their president is a communist? lol

Ayjaydee, you can laugh if you want, but is it actually funny ??

See, Publicus is constantly on ThaiVisa, and Publicus is actually AGAINST Donald Trump and cheers on Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. Publicus, supposedly, is a 'liberal', he hates Donald Trump. And yet, Publicus trots out all this rhetoric against China.

Actually, Hillary Clinton supported and voted in favour of the Bush invasion of Iraq. Yes, some of America's 'liberals' are actually a bunch of sympathisers of the war-mongers. We live in a crazy world.

[keemapoot]

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

you wonder? when massive numbers of americans swear their president is a communist? lol

Ayjaydee, you can laugh if you want, but is it actually funny ??

See, Publicus is constantly on ThaiVisa, and Publicus is actually AGAINST Donald Trump and cheers on Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. Publicus, supposedly, is a 'liberal', he hates Donald Trump. And yet, Publicus trots out all this rhetoric against China.

Actually, Hillary Clinton supported and voted in favour of the Bush invasion of Iraq. Yes, some of America's 'liberals' are actually a bunch of sympathisers of the war-mongers. We live in a crazy world.

I have had many conversations with Asia-experienced US diplomats and US leaders of industry and none of them ever trot out that kind of anti-China rhetoric. Believe me, practitioners in the real world see China through a much more multi-dimensional and sophisticated lens.

[AYJAYDEE]

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

you wonder? when massive numbers of americans swear their president is a communist? lol

Ayjaydee, you can laugh if you want, but is it actually funny ??

See, Publicus is constantly on ThaiVisa, and Publicus is actually AGAINST Donald Trump and cheers on Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. Publicus, supposedly, is a 'liberal', he hates Donald Trump. And yet, Publicus trots out all this rhetoric against China.

Actually, Hillary Clinton supported and voted in favour of the Bush invasion of Iraq. Yes, some of America's 'liberals' are actually a bunch of sympathisers of the war-mongers. We live in a crazy world.

America is a one party state and has been for decades. they pretend there is a difference by quibbling about moral values but underneath it all, its the WAR PARTY, dedicated to maintaining american hegemony.

[LawrenceChee]

China is not only Americas BFF but we are the shy Cousin in the background ....

We gladly let USA be the screaming attention seeking cheerleading kid at the party while we help ourselves to all the cookies and grow fat

Watch Kungfu Panda ...amazing there are a lot of communist themes in that cartoon

[LawrenceChee]

In the reality world of shadow Asian politics , I can say there are a lot of agreements going on while they string the USA along

The Vietnamese and Philippines governments have been experts in milking the USA and Japan for aid while pretending to be "victims" and also at the same time talking with the CCP on the potential gains in the next 20 years which is 5 USA Presidents term time

Like I say time is on the Asia pacific side as they know there is aplenty to keep USA busy around the world as it tries to stay on its status around the world

[lannarebirth]

What ?? Publicus, YOU wrote "the only thing to fear more than a rising China is a falling China. Desperation is a very dangerous driver."

Publicus, why the fear ??

Fear of CCP ? Fear of the Chinese Communist Party ? Fear of China ? Fear of Russia ? Fear of Communists ? Fear of Reds in Latin America ? Fear of Sandinistas ? Fear of Islam ? Fear of Muslims ? Fear of Iran ? Fear of paranoi ? When is the FEAR going to go away ?

Joseph_McCarthy.jpg

Okay, none of us will know who the above man is. But the above man is significant. It's Joseph McCarthy. McCarthy was mad. He had paranoi against communists. It was a long time ago, back in the 1950s. I sometimes wonder, today, there are Americans who still have this paranoi. Is paranoi passed on via the genes ??

you wonder? when massive numbers of americans swear their president is a communist? lol

Ayjaydee, you can laugh if you want, but is it actually funny ??

See, Publicus is constantly on ThaiVisa, and Publicus is actually AGAINST Donald Trump and cheers on Hillary Clinton and the Democrats. Publicus, supposedly, is a 'liberal', he hates Donald Trump. And yet, Publicus trots out all this rhetoric against China.

Actually, Hillary Clinton supported and voted in favour of the Bush invasion of Iraq. Yes, some of America's 'liberals' are actually a bunch of sympathisers of the war-mongers. We live in a crazy world.

I have had many conversations with Asia-experienced US diplomats and US leaders of industry and none of them ever trot out that kind of anti-China rhetoric. Believe me, practitioners in the real world see China through a much more multi-dimensional and sophisticated lens.

What both sides have in common is that they're both trying to loot the US treasury.

[AYJAYDEE]

In the reality world of shadow Asian politics , I can say there are a lot of agreements going on while they string the USA along

The Vietnamese and Philippines governments have been experts in milking the USA and Japan for aid while pretending to be "victims" and also at the same time talking with the CCP on the potential gains in the next 20 years which is 5 USA Presidents term time

Like I say time is on the Asia pacific side as they know there is aplenty to keep USA busy around the world as it tries to stay on its status around the world

china is not going to be a danger to anyone . her own internal stresses are going to tear her apart.

[LawrenceChee]

In the reality world of shadow Asian politics , I can say there are a lot of agreements going on while they string the USA along

The Vietnamese and Philippines governments have been experts in milking the USA and Japan for aid while pretending to be "victims" and also at the same time talking with the CCP on the potential gains in the next 20 years which is 5 USA Presidents term time

Like I say time is on the Asia pacific side as they know there is aplenty to keep USA busy around the world as it tries to stay on its status around the world

china is not going to be a danger to anyone . her own internal stresses are going to tear her apart.

You won't find me disagreeing with that...the hot topic these days in all the CCP meetings is pollution control , fiscal spendings and also where to move those factories to....without losing the $$$

China is not interested in any wars no matter how much the warmongers beat it out to be ...

[AYJAYDEE]

In the reality world of shadow Asian politics , I can say there are a lot of agreements going on while they string the USA along

The Vietnamese and Philippines governments have been experts in milking the USA and Japan for aid while pretending to be "victims" and also at the same time talking with the CCP on the potential gains in the next 20 years which is 5 USA Presidents term time

Like I say time is on the Asia pacific side as they know there is aplenty to keep USA busy around the world as it tries to stay on its status around the world

china is not going to be a danger to anyone . her own internal stresses are going to tear her apart.

You won't find me disagreeing with that...the hot topic these days in all the CCP meetings is pollution control , fiscal spendings and also where to move those factories to....without losing the $$$

China is not interested in any wars no matter how much the warmongers beat it out to be ...

wars are an effective method of taking the attention away from your own failings

[LawrenceChee]

In the reality world of shadow Asian politics , I can say there are a lot of agreements going on while they string the USA along

The Vietnamese and Philippines governments have been experts in milking the USA and Japan for aid while pretending to be "victims" and also at the same time talking with the CCP on the potential gains in the next 20 years which is 5 USA Presidents term time

Like I say time is on the Asia pacific side as they know there is aplenty to keep USA busy around the world as it tries to stay on its status around the world

china is not going to be a danger to anyone . her own internal stresses are going to tear her apart.

You won't find me disagreeing with that...the hot topic these days in all the CCP meetings is pollution control , fiscal spendings and also where to move those factories to....without losing the $$$

China is not interested in any wars no matter how much the warmongers beat it out to be ...

wars are an effective method of taking the attention away from your own failings

True the USA have been showing us that for the last 15 years ....