12DrinkMore Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If I had to take a guess, it is that nobody here wants to pay for "blue sky"...that intangible worth beyond the property and improvements. Its called 'Goodwill' AKA "Wild Optimism" and "I want the biggest share of any future profits". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyFingers Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 ... and sit back and watch the cash roll in LoL, I already have the 'cash rolling in' part sussed - it is the 'sitting back' that I don't have. Yes, this is the option that I've been pursuing, since who knows when it will sell. 90% of the business activity is at night, and this is handled fine by the night manager. I just need to sort out a morning manager to manage the customer check-outs. But the resort is too small to justify a western manager's salary for just morning work. So I have problems finding a Thai manager who can speak decent English. Actually, the commonsense option is not to sell, because it is a cash-cow. I really need to sort out how the business can operate smoothly without me on-site. Simon, if you think your health will improve with rest you do not want to give away a good business. In similar businesses in oz the owners best option was to lease the property at an attractive rate for the lessee based on your figures. You will not be receiving the full benefit while it is leased this way but you still have the real estate and can take the business back after the lease if you have recuperated. Take a loss now but keep the asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabula Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I was with a friend in a bar one night in Central America and we met the expat owner. The club was empty and the owner was sad and depressed that the bar was for sale for a year and he just wanted out at any cost! I offered to sell it quickly. The owner laughed. We agreed on a commission. The few days later I learned that a wedding party was being held upstairs. I told the owner to invite all his friends for the downstairs and fill both floors with balloons and bright colored lights. We hired a belly dancer and a DJ. During the night I video taped the event from outside, inside, both floors, with close ups of laughter, joy and of course the belly dancer, lights, balloons and the customers rocking out to fabulous tunes. I then posted the Video on UTube mentioning the bar was for sale, the location and all the pluses. The video went viral and a buyer, an expat, called and bought the bar and it closed in two weeks! Illusions combined with the power of the Internet are very effective. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Sounds like you performed a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob12345 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I was with a friend in a bar one night in Central America and we met the expat owner. The club was empty and the owner was sad and depressed that the bar was for sale for a year and he just wanted out at any cost! I offered to sell it quickly. The owner laughed. We agreed on a commission. The few days later I learned that a wedding party was being held upstairs. I told the owner to invite all his friends for the downstairs and fill both floors with balloons and bright colored lights. We hired a belly dancer and a DJ. During the night I video taped the event from outside, inside, both floors, with close ups of laughter, joy and of course the belly dancer, lights, balloons and the customers rocking out to fabulous tunes. I then posted the Video on UTube mentioning the bar was for sale, the location and all the pluses. The video went viral and a buyer, an expat, called and bought the bar and it closed in two weeks! Illusions combined with the power of the Internet are very effective. Good luck. Illusions combined with the power of the Internet are very effective. You mean making up BS stories and posting it on TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebluewater Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 ^ I just wanna know more about the belly dancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike324 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 ... and sit back and watch the cash roll in LoL, I already have the 'cash rolling in' part sussed - it is the 'sitting back' that I don't have. Yes, this is the option that I've been pursuing, since who knows when it will sell. 90% of the business activity is at night, and this is handled fine by the night manager. I just need to sort out a morning manager to manage the customer check-outs. But the resort is too small to justify a western manager's salary for just morning work. So I have problems finding a Thai manager who can speak decent English. Actually, the commonsense option is not to sell, because it is a cash-cow. I really need to sort out how the business can operate smoothly without me on-site. I think most business are having problems finding a decent manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I was with a friend in a bar one night in Central America and we met the expat owner. The club was empty and the owner was sad and depressed that the bar was for sale for a year and he just wanted out at any cost! I offered to sell it quickly. The owner laughed. We agreed on a commission. The few days later I learned that a wedding party was being held upstairs. I told the owner to invite all his friends for the downstairs and fill both floors with balloons and bright colored lights. We hired a belly dancer and a DJ. During the night I video taped the event from outside, inside, both floors, with close ups of laughter, joy and of course the belly dancer, lights, balloons and the customers rocking out to fabulous tunes. I then posted the Video on UTube mentioning the bar was for sale, the location and all the pluses. The video went viral and a buyer, an expat, called and bought the bar and it closed in two weeks! Illusions combined with the power of the Internet are very effective. Good luck. If I shook hands with you, I'd make sure to count my fingers afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfish Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If you cant sell it then the answer is obvious Increase the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjoe41 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Simon,whats the most important? your future health and enjoyment in life after being successful with your venture at your present age?without having to worry if you sell or rent as to how its doing.My point being you appear to have done your share,and now its time to walk away,as best you can,and dont look back but keep looking ahead.No disrespect intended but,there are lots of wealthy men and women 6 feet under or spread out somewhere in the wind.Enjoy what you have left see what you may have missed,relax and perhaps your ilness will leave you in a short time,with the correct care,perhaps in another country,you may be surprised how happy you can be,good luck whatever your decision..ENJOY LIFE ITS VERY SHORT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Mango Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 An honest opinion , Thanks for the pm Simon and have looked through the numbers , Just a personal opinion but your asking price against Nett profit seems like the buyer would just be buying himself a job in the hope in the future he could re-sell and re-coup the intiall investment. I may be wrong but it does seem expensive in todays market when you compare to other buisinesses for sale at a comparable price. I do wish you all the best but I have a feeling I know why its still on the market 12 months after you put it up for sale . But its just my opinion and of course you are welcome to point out any other facts that you feel warrant the price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 An honest opinion , Thanks for the pm Simon and have looked through the numbers , Just a personal opinion but your asking price against Nett profit seems like the buyer would just be buying himself a job in the hope in the future he could re-sell and re-coup the intiall investment. I may be wrong but it does seem expensive in todays market when you compare to other buisinesses for sale at a comparable price. I do wish you all the best but I have a feeling I know why its still on the market 12 months after you put it up for sale . But its just my opinion and of course you are welcome to point out any other facts that you feel warrant the price tag. This post goes along with what I was asking and that was what kind of ROI as an investor would I see. If it was around 12-15% net, you would definitely find a buyer, but it sounds like you've "Thai priced" yourself out of the market for a reasonably quick sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 This post goes along with what I was asking and that was what kind of ROI as an investor would I see. If it was around 12-15% net, you would definitely find a buyer, but it sounds like you've "Thai priced" yourself out of the market for a reasonably quick sale. 12 - 15 % ROI is impossible. Big hotels work on at best a 12 year payback .... that's way less than 10%, and as low as 8% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Does he want a quick sale or not? We're not talking about a big hotel here LIK. As an example, I just sold a rental house here I'd had for a number of years, I had to come down on price considerably from what I was asking ,but boom, there went the sale due to wanting to sell at a saleable price. Edited April 21, 2016 by steelepulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noreya Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Just a quick numbers query , Asking price ...... Nett Yearly Profit ...... Lease left on the land ...... Might answer a few questions Simon, you need to provide information on above. I have same questions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Does he want a quick sale or not? We're not talking about a big hotel here LIK. As an example, I just sold a rental house here I'd had for a number of years, I had to come down on price considerably from what I was asking ,but boom, there went the sale due to wanting to sell at a saleable price. Does not to seem me like he wants a quick sell. Seems he wants an easy sell at his price. I have rental homes that I would like to sell ... but not at a much reduced price compared with a new land/build price. Sure I could sell at way under valuation. All depends how desperate the owner is to sell. Seems like Simon is making money - but has health problems. Up to him what he wants to do ... Edited April 21, 2016 by LivinginKata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgjackson69 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 If I had to take a guess, it is that nobody here wants to pay for "blue sky"...that intangible worth beyond the property and improvements. Its called 'Goodwill' It is known by several different terms...."Good Will" and "Blue Sky" among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELL Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I have similar business and same situation for many years. Have several potential customers , but no one willing to have daily nonstop work from morning to evening to manage staff and solve some customers problems. All new owners want just to stay near the beach and look how staff doing all job... This is a dream and not possible for a small hotel, especially in Thailand. Probably this is the reason for your frustration. I hope that one day I could find a good couple who will live and manage my place for profit share and this is maximum what I can expect. I already give up for sale and for lease as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelepulse Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Does he want a quick sale or not? We're not talking about a big hotel here LIK. As an example, I just sold a rental house here I'd had for a number of years, I had to come down on price considerably from what I was asking ,but boom, there went the sale due to wanting to sell at a saleable price. Does not to seem me like he wants a quick sell. Seems he wants an easy sell at his price. I have rental homes that I would like to sell ... but not at a much reduced price compared with a new land/build price. Sure I could sell at way under valuation. All depends how desperate the owner is to sell. Seems like Simon is making money - but has health problems. Up to him what he wants to do ... That's my take on it too when it's been on the market for this long, is profitable and isn't that difficult to run. At some point, you either hold out hoping for a luck sale, or decide that some cash and more free time is worth more to you than holding out. Everyone makes their own choices on something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonsterk Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I would be extremely happy to keep the business if it were not for this annoying illness. (I will PM details of the P&L etc). But it is very true that many hotels and guesthouses are not doing well - I see dozens of new, 3-year lease hotels in Patong advertised, but when you scrutinise the key-money, security deposit, lease costs etc etc, you see that they are certainly not a bargain. My 2 Thai staff do a grand job, but I know that the good reputation of the business would go down if I were not on hand with my Basil Fawlty wit What to do? I will probably die with a profitable business like a millstone around my neck! Did you never consider to hire a Farang resident manager to run the business and who might be willing to buy it later after he realizes it is profitable ? Is that the sort of job a foreigner could get a permit for? Anyone with the degree in hotel admin that a WP requires ( am I wrong?) would surely not be interested in such a small biz, plus he'd be paying them 2-3 times what he would a Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 An honest opinion , Thanks for the pm Simon and have looked through the numbers , Just a personal opinion but your asking price against Nett profit seems like the buyer would just be buying himself a job in the hope in the future he could re-sell and re-coup the intiall investment. I may be wrong but it does seem expensive in todays market when you compare to other buisinesses for sale at a comparable price. I do wish you all the best but I have a feeling I know why its still on the market 12 months after you put it up for sale . But its just my opinion and of course you are welcome to point out any other facts that you feel warrant the price tag. This is IMO not done, giving your opinion on the open forum on information provided in a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozyjon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I will probably die with a profitable business like a millstone around my neck! Don't feel too bad about it because,, so will i and many more. I'm in the same situation, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Mango Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 An honest opinion , Thanks for the pm Simon and have looked through the numbers , Just a personal opinion but your asking price against Nett profit seems like the buyer would just be buying himself a job in the hope in the future he could re-sell and re-coup the intiall investment. I may be wrong but it does seem expensive in todays market when you compare to other buisinesses for sale at a comparable price. I do wish you all the best but I have a feeling I know why its still on the market 12 months after you put it up for sale . But its just my opinion and of course you are welcome to point out any other facts that you feel warrant the price tag. This is IMO not done, giving your opinion on the open forum on information provided in a PM. Ok , so take it as a reply from an open advert for the buisiness , as all i received was a link to said ad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) I don't really want to post business specifics in this open forum - I should pay for a business advert/forum sponsorship if that's the case But I am replying to PMs and thanks for these messages. But in general terms: Simon, if you think your health will improve with rest you do not want to give away a good business Unfortunately, it will not improve, (rest may/should prolong things). I have had this illness since about 1999. It will eventually be the cause/initiator of my demise, but I have no issues about that. I just want to relax by the Mekong with a few cold beers. If I take things easy, eat good food, exercise and am pampered by a nubile Lao lady, I should have a good life expectancy DELETED I may be wrong but it does seem expensive in todays market when you compare to other buisinesses for sale at a comparable price. I'd love to see those other adverts, because I can't find any. I can only find 3+3+3 etc leasehold hotels, with key money, security deposit, high monthly rents etc. Show me a hotel in phuket with the same number of rooms and a monthly rent of 16k baht - fixed for the next 12 years and I will eat my proverbial hat Edited April 21, 2016 by seedy advertising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Did you never consider to hire a Farang resident manager to run the business and who might be willing to buy it later after he realizes it is profitable ? Is that the sort of job a foreigner could get a permit for? Anyone with the degree in hotel admin that a WP requires ( am I wrong?) would surely not be interested in such a small biz, plus he'd be paying them 2-3 times what he would a Thai Yes, sounds easy ... just hire a non-thai. But not so ... need to get into the weeds of a work permit with all the paperwork and conditions that reuires. Easy for a big hotel ... not easy for a small guesthouse with few staff. I'm not sure but I get the impression that Simon does not even have a WP. I could be very wrong. In my case I do have a WP based on married to a Thai which gives me a few concessions. I for sure would like to hire a foreign manager but would never be able to have WP approval for a foreign manger. Edited April 21, 2016 by LivinginKata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 topic straying into avenues best served by the PM or Email function Or advertising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertson468 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Just a quick numbers query , Asking price ...... Nett Yearly Profit ...... Lease left on the land ...... Might answer a few questions All that stuff is interesting of course, but the bottom line is WHAT IS THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT. This will tell people if they would be better of leaving their money in a bank, or buying shares or your Resort. My ROI in my little Resort is 12% per annum, which sure beats the hell out of any money in a bank and 99% of other investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 I'm not sure but I get the impression that Simon does not even have a WP. I do not need a WP because I don't work I 'own' the business and sign company documents only when I'm outside of Thailand. Being on-site and drinking beer is not 'work' by any definition that the Thai Labour office applies. Most days, I spend an hour or 2 doing my TPV work in this area (visiting other hotels, checking on the airport etc). The police have graciously advised everyone that TPVs do not need WPs to work as TPVs I live in Thailand using a Thailand Elite visa. But as LiK says, employing a non-Thai manager is not as easy as it sounds (re getting a WP in Phuket). I really need to employ a Thai 'morning manager' who can speak good English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Mango Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 ^^ phillapino (spelling) ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyboy Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 a good business is not for sale only let on lease look at al the hotels for sale pattaya and cheap cant sell and also who knows the future some man in a suit thinks we take that back or knock it down without any compo its a bg gamble with thailand and for the money layed out i think its hard work for the returns hotel or resort 7 days a week 365 days a year 24/ 7 and all the paper work goes with it not for me thanks but good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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