The argument against dual pricing in Thailand

[BSJ]

I have a simple rule, if the establishment is in any way connected to the Thai Government I will pay the dual price

If it is a privately owned or operated tourist location (which I can't name due to TV name and same policy) I will not pay

For instance, in Pattaya the place where I can see fish swimming, or the place that is the recreation of Bangkok klong merchants, or a village designed to look like a European town center, or a place that has lots of flowers, trees, and bushes, or a place that has tiny cities, etc. all are on my no go list

I know the ones you mean. I sure as |-|ell wouldn't visit any of them either!

[MichaelJohn]

The answer is simple (although will never happen).

All foreign governments should have a tax, surcharge, additional fee on all Thai visitors.

It's primarily the government that adopts this dual pricing policy so if it's fair in Thailand then it should be fair elsewhere?

[Hawk]

Dual pricing amounts to cheating!

I have been to some restaurants that have dual pricing, two menus, one in Thai(cheaper) and one in English(expensive). I always walked out when I was not allowed to order from the Thai menu.

[rkidlad]

I remember going to Kho Samed. On the back of a pick up truck taxi with some different nationalities. Two Japanese guys were there and they said nothing and paid 20 Baht (local fee at the time). I had to pay 200 Baht.

So if you look Thai and the staff are busy or not concentrating, you pay local prices. If you're clearly not Thai and ask to pay local prices, they'll laugh at you like you're a bona fide nutter.

For all of those who don't mind paying more - fair enough. But ask yourself one question; when you're paying X amount to get into a poorly run and dirty national park, what are you paying for exactly? Some dude's new Mercedes and holiday home in Hua Hin no doubt.

I also find that when you are super polite and allow people with the gall to rip you off, they lose any respect they had for decency towards you and even start feeling disdain.

Edited April 22, 2016 by rkidlad

[Srikcir]

illegal on the basis of anti-discrimination laws

Only for Thais. Thai constitutions prohibits discrimination only for Thai people.

2007 Constitution, Article 5, "The Thai people, irrespective of their origins, sexes or religions, shall enjoy equal protection under this Constitution."

2014 Interim Charter, Article 4 recognizes human dignity, rights, liberties and equality of the Thais.

Such xenophobia could eventually cause unravelling of the ASEAN Community. It would be like the EU wherein citizens would have differing human rights and liberties depending on the country of their citizenship.

[Emster23]

Aspect that bothers me is that government with dual pricing sets the standard and the tone regarding taking foreigners for all they can get, so businesses follow the leaders..... hence mom and pop overcharges. At Chiang Mai rail station they tried that once at snack kiosk. Had charged 15 baht for Coke for local, then wanted 20 from me, so I questioned that. "Hee, hee.... ok 15 baht".

[SoiBiker]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

[SABloke]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

:rolleyes:

[SoiBiker]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

Intelligent response there.

[thedemon]

In defense of the Thais, the dual pricing is just a polite, and subtle way of saying the place is a dump. (And trust me most Thai national parks are). So farangs see this and should know not to go in. Those fools that do might as well get overcharged. For Thais who wouldn't normally go either the idea they are getting some discount or special price for being Thai encourages them to visit these sub standard places. Consequently the national parks are overrun with people cars noise and garbage. Even if they were free these places still wouldn't be worth it.

Agreed.

Couldn't care less about the dual pricing. In fact I would happily pay the foreign price not to go to any of them.

[Bluespunk]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

No similarity at all.

The things you mention are applicable to all, regardless of nationality.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bluespunk

[Berty100]

Doesn't bother me at all. I can generally afford the higher price, and I understand the sound economic principle behind it.

Some farangs just relish an opportunity to play the victim.

If Collineil's post #7 is an example of the economic principle behind it, I suggest that they review it.

Answer was, she farang tourist she got big money.

Now we will go to the other village shop, he thought he was being smart but has lost a regular customer over his short sighted greed.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Berty100

[SoiBiker]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

No similarity at all.

The things you mention are applicable to all, regardless of nationality.

Different differentiating factor, same principle.

Are pensioner discounts ageism?

[SoiBiker]

Doesn't bother me at all. I can generally afford the higher price, and I understand the sound economic principle behind it.

Some farangs just relish an opportunity to play the victim.

If Collineil's post #7 is an example of the economic principle behind it, I suggest that they review it.

Answer was, she farang tourist she got big money.

Now we will go to the other village shop, he thought he was being smart but has lost a regular customer over his short sighted greed.

That is indeed a somewhat foolish application of the strategy. It doesn't work well if you have competitors nearby selling the same product.

[MartinL]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

Yes, I do agree with those types of discounts because they are all examples of something all of us might be at some time in our lives, depending on aspirations and luck - or lack of it.

No matter how much I might desire it, I'll never achieve Thai citizenship based on current criteria.

I've told this story on TV before but I'll repeat it:-

My wife and I took her aging aunt on a trip to UK. When entering a pay-for-entry tourist attraction, the ticket seller asked the old lady - directly, to her face, not the Thai equivalent "Is the farang ... ?" - whether or not she was a pensioner. I answered for her, since she had no English, and confirmed that she was over pension age but wasn't British. Ticket seller said her nationality was unimportant, her age was the qualification for discount. Result - one very happy old lady who went home with a very favourable impression of Britain & the British.

Edited April 22, 2016 by MartinL

[Berty100]

Doesn't bother me at all. I can generally afford the higher price, and I understand the sound economic principle behind it.

Some farangs just relish an opportunity to play the victim.

If Collineil's post #7 is an example of the economic principle behind it, I suggest that they review it.

Answer was, she farang tourist she got big money.

Now we will go to the other village shop, he thought he was being smart but has lost a regular customer over his short sighted greed.

That is indeed a somewhat foolish application of the strategy. It doesn't work well if you have competitors nearby selling the same product.

Thanks, you just confirmed there is no economic principle behind it, it is simple greed that can be applied in a selective manner.

Stop trolling this thread.( and most other threads)

[Bluespunk]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

No similarity at all.

The things you mention are applicable to all, regardless of nationality.

Different differentiating factor, same principle.

Are pensioner discounts ageism?

Principle is not the same at all. They are not based on nationality.

Your ageism comment is so trite it is not worth responding too.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Bluespunk

[SoiBiker]

It's only greed in the sense that capitalism in general is about greed. It's a strategy businesses can use to maximise profits. Maximising profit is what businesses do in a capitalist system.

[rkidlad]

It's only greed in the sense that capitalism in general is about greed. It's a strategy businesses can use to maximise profits. Maximising profit is what businesses do in a capitalist system.

Okay, stop talking now.

[SoiBiker]

It's only greed in the sense that capitalism in general is about greed. It's a strategy businesses can use to maximise profits. Maximising profit is what businesses do in a capitalist system.

Okay, stop talking now.

Another intelligent argument.

I realise that this is an emotive subject for some. But that's no reason to ignore the mechanics behind it.

[Beats56]

I go to koh samet every year as it close for me. They wanted me to pay the higher fralng price. But I explained I live here and showed them passport. Also had my son with me and the misses. They said ok pay the Thai price. Made my day.

[DrTuner]

Isn't this the same guy who wrote the "Farang is racist" piece not long ago? Is he just running through TV's greatest hits?

To me it looks like a couple of old TVF hands have made their own blogs and now TVF is quoting them. They need to be careful or this will end up an infinite loop, like pointing the camera to the monitor.

[Mook23]

I hope we do the same to Thai soon, 5 times the entrancefee when they visit the Eiffel Tower, only for SE-Asians.

We have ethics so that won't happen. "Suhtoopid Farang".....

[SABloke]

Those who get upset about this - do you also object to student discounts? Pensioner discounts? Discounts for the unemployed?

These are all examples of the same thing - differential pricing based on the generalised perception of a group's ability to pay.

Intelligent response there.

[taony]

Aspect that bothers me is that government with dual pricing sets the standard and the tone regarding taking foreigners for all they can get, so businesses follow the leaders..... hence mom and pop overcharges. At Chiang Mai rail station they tried that once at snack kiosk. Had charged 15 baht for Coke for local, then wanted 20 from me, so I questioned that. "Hee, hee.... ok 15 baht".

When I am in that situation, I don't buy it. I'd rather do without than give my money to a cheater. He only offered the real price because he was caught.

[Tomtomtom69]

Over pricing is everywhere in Thailand.

A few days ago i had a farang visit me.

It was very hot so the lady went to our village shop.

She bought ice, 3 small bottles of coke.

Price should have been 10 baht ice, 3x12 baht coke.

She was charged 60 baht. When she told me, i said thats wrong.

Next day my wife went to the same shop, bought same items 46 baht.

My wife asked why did you charge my farang friend 60 baht.

Answer was, she farang tourist she got big money.

Now we will go to the other village shop, he thought he was being smart but has lost a regular customer over his short sighted greed.

Maybe if you had visited the local 7-11, you wouldn't have had to deal with that. Local mom and pop shops are dead anyway, the way in which a small number of them try to extract a few extra Baht from a "farang" tourist is just a defiant last attempt to cash in before convenience store chains and hypermarkets drive them out of business.

While I believe I personally have never been affected (I know what the price of items in such stores should be, which is not much more than the 7-11 price) and I am fluent in the language, I am not sad to see some of these shops go.

As Thailand modernizes, the dual pricing will slowly be eliminated though I suspect national parks and private tourist attractions will hold off as long as possible in a last act of defiance.

[Tomtomtom69]

Aspect that bothers me is that government with dual pricing sets the standard and the tone regarding taking foreigners for all they can get, so businesses follow the leaders..... hence mom and pop overcharges. At Chiang Mai rail station they tried that once at snack kiosk. Had charged 15 baht for Coke for local, then wanted 20 from me, so I questioned that. "Hee, hee.... ok 15 baht".

When I am in that situation, I don't buy it. I'd rather do without than give my money to a cheater. He only offered the real price because he was caught.

Yeah but what's the point of even buying a drink from a local vendor? 7-11 probably has at least one or two stores at the Chiang Mai railway station and only charges 13 Baht for a can of coke that's constantly cooled in a proper refridgerator, not just a box of ice.

[Tomtomtom69]

I go to koh samet every year as it close for me. They wanted me to pay the higher fralng price. But I explained I live here and showed them passport. Also had my son with me and the misses. They said ok pay the Thai price. Made my day.

I read somewhere recently that there is no more dual pricing on Samet because so many people have made complaints. Even though it is easy to avoid paying altogether - get a local to drag your luggage behind you, take off your shirt, look like you have already been on the island a few days. On the 2 occasions I went to Samet, I didn't pay. Nor did my Thai friends pay (at the time, I was under the impression Thais didn't have to pay anything anyway).

[SoiBiker]

Last time I went to Samet I paid full price, my wife produced her work permit and was charged the Thai price but told this concession was being stopped soon, and a Chinese friend kept her mouth shut and paid the Thai price with no problem.

[Tomtomtom69]

The answer is simple (although will never happen).

All foreign governments should have a tax, surcharge, additional fee on all Thai visitors.

It's primarily the government that adopts this dual pricing policy so if it's fair in Thailand then it should be fair elsewhere?

Actually many already do. I think you are referring to western governments though, which normally don't.

However, you could look at it this way (although what I'm about to say has NOTHING to do with dual pricing):

Thai wants to visit Australia. Visa fee = 4700 Baht.

Aussie wants to visit Thailand. Visa fee = 0 nada nothing. At least not for short stays.

However, it evens out a bit for longer visits. Thai wants to visit Australia multiple times in one year. Visa fee for a 1-year multi entry visa with a 3-month stay limit per entry is still only 4700 Baht. For Aussies wanting to spend a year in Thailand, a 1-year multi entry visa costs 5,000 Baht in Thai currency, but in Australia they will charge A$225. Which is well over 5,000 Baht. On the flip side, a Thai visitor will not be allowed to spend a full 3 months in Australia, followed by a same day visa run then return for another 3 months. An Aussie on a 1-year multi-entry can do just that. So a 1-year multi entry Aussie visa (for business or tourism) for a Thai will normally be only useful if said visitor comes and goes 3-4 times during a year, with each visit only being say 2-3 weeks followed by returning to Thailand.

Cambodia, Myanmar, India, Vietnam and Laos (although the latter two only to a very limited extent) all practice dual pricing and Thais will almost always be asked to pay extra in all of these countries. Funnily enough, on a Pantip forum there was a thread about Thais complaining about Laos, at least one person was angry and offended they were asked to pay more than a "farang" to enter some kind of tourist attraction. That person felt violated and said Laos was unfriendly, xenophobic against Thais, blah blah blah. LOL. If they only knew how much worse the practice is in Thailand and how xenophobic Thailand is towards foreign visitors in this respect. I would say to that hypocrite, oh boo hoo. So you paid 10,000 Kip when that "farang" and other Lao only pay 5,000. 45 Baht vs. 22.5. Although I am against dual pricing on the basis of nationality/race in all forms, in this case all I can say to that Thai person is: get over it and get a life.

Another example is the unequal treatment for Thais wanting to drive their cars to foreign countries vs. those foreigners driving here. To drive to China, Thais need to spend well over 300,000 Baht. This includes something like 50,000 Baht for the driving permission, permits and guide fees, while 250,000-300,000 is for a deposit paid to customs that is only returned upon exiting the country. Chinese can drive to Thailand virtually for free - 200 Baht + 645 or so for the basic 3rd party minimum legal insurance. However, the Thais have finally realized the hypocrisy and will change the system soon. They will require advance notice made through tourism operators and charge 1,000 Baht for all Chinese vehicles, plus forcing them to purchase 3rd party liability insurance that covers 3rd party damages and a temporary driver's licence. In addition to these fees, the tourism operators will likely charge their own fees. All in all, probably 3,000-5,000 Baht minimum will be payable and while that may still seem low, not allowing driving outside of the border province entered will mean the Thais will have the last laugh as they force Chinese onto public transport vehicles or to rent cars. I'm actually surprised it took them this long to come up with a change in the law. Foreigners driving their own cars in was always virtually free up until now meaning Thais were being screwed as they have to pay road taxes.