Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo – innocent in the 'trial by social media'

[Moonsterk]

The resident Kho Tao trolls were quick to act, some even using the same name. How are your benefactors treating you folks, good these days I guess? The murders are being forced to lay low, they will strike again, can't stop. They had killed before and will kill again. My friend and long time resident of death island long ago packed up his farang gf and split from Thailand completely. He knew one of the B2. That entire case was so screwed up not even a black man in Mississippi would have been convicted.

Hearsay, innuendo (as in above ) and above all-misinformation ad infinitum is all the defenders have. Repeat it a thousand times and folk start thinking it's a fact.

I saw on one comment on a group page where those suffering several recent deaths " were witnesses for defense.."... Even having an overdosed victim as " investigating the case.." Complete lies that run unabated when page admins censor any attempt to counter it- and also cause pain, unnecessary pain to families who may read it.

[Moonsterk]

The key is the fact that the police/prosecution have never been able to produce the "original" DNA samples that they claim match B2, the prosecution did offer up some already processed samples which for verification purposes are useless because there is no way to tell where they came from, they could in fact be processed samples of the B2's saliva, the defence rightly refused to accept these for retest

The original claimed DNA samples would/should have been huge in quantity - massive by DNA standards and yet they no longer exist.

These original samples would have been bagged and tagged from the crime scene and the autopsy and yet they cannot be produced. There is something fundamentally wrong with that no matter how you look at it.

This is one of those BS " Facts." When you read " is the fact.." from purveyors of the myth, better ask for a bit more info..

[sidboy]

The Samui Times editor is completely emotionally and personally involved in this case and should disclose her involvement in it.

A few days ago even inserting text to change the entire premise of the documentary Murder in Paradise as " stay away. murderers lurk.." it was nothing of the sort, and was almost balanced - for the first time we hear Motriawt crosssed that line AFTER bodies were wrapped and he is an appointed law enforcement office- a deputy of sorts as his brother, the head of the vilage has every right to appoint him. Just one of the BS lies going out to " prove" his involvement

The justice pages are all about censoring and banning contrary opinions, and CSI la is all about getting clicks and dissing anyone who exposes that. Can't have justice without truth, and can't have truth with censorship.

Here's a great post on a FB page I did not write it but wish I had. It is regarding an article in The Nation about social media and how it is narrowing discourse, not expanding it.

It discusses the commentary of philosopher Zygmunt Bauman, for example this passage: "He notes that most people use social media not to embrace new thinking but to "cut themselves a comfort zone where the only sounds they hear are the echoes of their own voices and the only things they see are the reflections of their own faces";

which if you go to any of the so called "Justice" pages set up to propagate the narrative that Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats you will see (provided you want to see) how this echo chamber mentality is not just common, it is strictly enforced. Any opposing view, even one backed with facts is rejected.

The end result is a few nodes of inbred, reality-challenged fundamentalists that seek salvation through proselytizing.

Some time ago I noticed the similarity of that beheaviour with religious fanatics, listening to a debate against Creationism this line was as applicable to that sort of fundamentalism as it is to the "Koh Tao Truthers"

"your (mind) is blinded by faith and a doctrinal obligation to defend the sacred fables against all reason. That's what apologetics is all about, you assume your conclusions at the onset for reasons that have nothing to do with actual information and then you make up whatever excuse necessary to rationalize or justify your baseless assumptions regardless of what the facts are."

Time and time again I've seen those "Truthers" repeat their fables, even when they have been debunked through clear evidence, they.don't.care, they just repeat them again and again. You can't have Justice without the Truth, and clearly they don't care about the Truth; they hold facts contrary to their presupositional beliefs in contempt, and will create any ad-hoc rationalization to dismiss them. The problem is that creates a feedback loop were this made on the spot rationalizations get kicked around Social Media and soon become "Facts".

Then of course is the deliberate creation and spreading of outright lies, which in that culture of believing or at the very least never challenging everything that appears to fit in the preferred narrative goes on completely unfettered.

So what's bad about all this? That tomorrow it could be you, or someone you care for, on the receiving end of it; so I, for one, chose to take a principled stand against it.

- for the first time we hear Motriawt crosssed that line AFTER bodies were wrapped

Rubbish. Look at the photographs.

[JLCrab]

The resident Kho Tao trolls were quick to act, some even using the same name. How are your benefactors treating you folks, good these days I guess? The murders are being forced to lay low, they will strike again, can't stop. They had killed before and will kill again. My friend and long time resident of death island long ago packed up his farang gf and split from Thailand completely. He knew one of the B2. That entire case was so screwed up not even a black man in Mississippi would have been convicted.

Whether that there have been no similar bludgeoning murders on Koh Tao is because those who committed the crimes have been in jail since their arrest for the crimes or because the cunning psychopath(s) still on the loose who committed these crimes are able to control there otherwise uncontrollable urges toward murder and mayhem, one cannot really say:

The net effect is the same.

[Khun Han]

I have the Tuvichien family Thai Visa spokeswoman on ignore, so I can't read her posts. But I noticed she's already spamming this thread: 11 posts in about 2 and a half hours .

[stephenterry]

Not sure but isn't owning a news publication reserved for Thais? I understand the site s owner is no longer in Thailand, might be a case of needing to block a site that is putting out complete fabrications. Is it MICT that is responsible for such matters, or did that change recently ?

Others using personal FB pages to spread a lot of very nasty opinions about the junta ( and police emails that were obtained illegally) might want to reconsider a few thoughts of late regarding some retaliatory actions. Screen shots are our friends...

Reminds me to post up that DNA meme dissection...

Trial by Social Media, what next, bring back the good old lynch mob? Because that's what judging people on the court of public opinion can lead to.

The editor of the Samui Times has abandoned any pretense of journalistic integrity, or just plain decency for that matter; what she wrote here in nothing short of a propaganda piece, full of deception, factual inaccuracies and outright lies. One example (out of many):

"Interestingly Montriwat first claimed to be the man on the CCTV TV but later police confirmed it was Wai Phyo, despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images, and that in fact Nomsod has a rather than more passing resemblance to the images seen and that during the court case an expert testified that thanks the to the unique gait of the man, it could not have been the defendant."

The first paragraph is not true, Montriwat never said such thing, the last part is also not true, no expert testified that in court, it was Andy Hall presenting a "gait analysis" from a person who is not accredited on that and that testimony was dismissed for what it was, hearsay by a non expert.

Then this part "despite the fact that Wai Phyo has a small thinning patch of hair that did not show up on the images" now it's clear that the author of the article is just lying trying to deceive people, she added this picture to support her "case"

running-man-wai-phyo-hair.jpg

Yes, thinning patch indeed, because those pictures were taken after he was arrested and his hair had been shaved. There's no two way about it, the author is lying, and like this one thousand and one other "Facts" uncovered by the Internet Sleuths she praises, they are lost in a cloud of speculation, misunderstandings, misinformation and lies. This are the people that are supposed to be fit to make judgements?

Three lies in one paragraph, and that's not a fluke, the article in it's entirety is a steaming pile of BS.

This is a picture of Wei Phyo on the day after he was arrested, with his hair before shaving, of course the author of the article wouldn't publish this one because A) it shows that he looks very much like the running man, and B ) because, according to the "They are Scapegoats" narrative he had been recently beaten nearly to death to extract a confession, anyone can spot any bruises, scraps or anything?

10247_191297354553966_309668673804381757_n.jpg

10255664_167427003616827_1542313092971708374_n.jpg

Stop with the <deleted> lies already.

I really don't think the majority of readers are swayed by your assertions. Even if the B2 are guilty, none of the crucial 'evidence', including the alleged DNA samples taken, has been verified, substantiated or validated.

You may ask the question as to why? There is no logical answer except that the prosecution didn't possess any. They relied on 'normal' Thai practice that the court would believe the RTP's assertions, which is not a legal modus operandi. Hence the conviction of murder and rape (based on hearsay) was unsafe, IMO.

And who says the evidence is unverified? Social media sites and cling on types looking for publicity. That DNA " expert" is not an accredited trial witness- in any nation and only possesses a bachelor's degree - hardly an expert no matter what her ( self edited) "Linked- in " profile states.

I understand she has a book foe sale at $ 60 AUS.

And so the police labs are complicit?

Ms sweet. No evidence provided to the court by the prosecution was validated. Especially the so called DNA assertions. If you consider a document with crossing outs credible evidence then you live in a fantasy world.

As I live in the real world, I'll desist in engaging with you any further

[rockingrobin]

A picture is worth....( credit to AleG)

Running man and Zaw Lin at his arrest a couple of weeks later.

post-70157-0-20121700-1461555532.jpg

I have only one issue here ,the still images would have to assume there was no hair growth between the time of the images being taken

[MockingJay]

What does it help, or will it make any difference in the end? With Thailand laughing at any notes regarding Thailand made by Amnesty International and such, there is absolutely no hope for the Burmese patsies. The only hope there is may be a reduction from death to life in prison.

What people concerned and/or angry about this case actually should do is to warn anyone about Koh Tao and urge them to not visit that rotten rock. That is what I do, and I will continue doing it for the rest of my life, plus will neither I nor my family ever set a foot on Koh Death.

[sidboy]

A picture is worth....( credit to AleG)

Running man and Zaw Lin at his arrest a couple of weeks later.

post-70157-0-20121700-1461555532.jpg

Let's have a picture of Nomsod to see what HIS hair was like on the morning of the murders (before he allegedly arrived at uni.)

Shame his FB page went down after the crimes so no one could see the style pre murders. It's a popular style with fashion conscious young men having those bits pulled forward at the sides. Running man could be any number of men including Nomsod. Strange that Mon initially said it was him - almost as if to get someone off the hook. What about Nomsod's brother too? Where was he on the morning of the crimes?

[sidboy]

I'm amazed that the documentary did not mention (and this forum seems to have forgotten) the Thai taxi driver who was forced by the police to give a statement against the two lads, under threat of pain and all sorts of other threats. The guy refused which shows that there are some Thais prepared to do the right thing - or rather, are not prepared to do the wrong thing. For me this is a big thing, the fact that the police felt the need to manufacture 'evidence'.

Are you sure this happened? Are you sure it wasn't part of a crafted narrative- because just about everything on this thread, and the dozen otheres in support of the innocence of Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo is based on social media assertions.

Then when lazy reporters ( and forum news teams..) start to quote fb pages, you know something stinks.

When producers of documentaries are pals with quasi legal types putting out memes about footprints that never existed, you know the BS is piling on..

Need to heed your own words then and stop quoting Facebook pages with long quotes.

[sidboy]

I have the Tuvichien family Thai Visa spokeswoman on ignore, so I can't read her posts. But I noticed she's already spamming this thread: 11 posts in about 2 and a half hours .

Thanks for the heads up. Wondered what all the support for them was about.

[Robm579]

What a crock of <deleted>.... This is not "trial by social media"

This is the public standing up against the completely and probably deliberate mis management of the crime scene and evidence... And the subsequent arrests...

The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....?

Fingers and questions should be raised at those responsible in the Thai Police ... And heads should roll...!!!

The "evidence" should have been clear...why did they need to mess it up....?

And who says it isn't? Social media. People emotionally involved with large FB followings.

What turned my thinking around was the initial narrative, " Police planted evidence..." that then- after the verdict- became police messed with lab results ( and the police lab is ISO accredited - another lie put out that it wasn't)

So police planted DNA evidence, or otheriwse created a false chain and then either were incompetent or faked test results. Is that what you're arguing happened?

From the above Post #1: "No mention was made of what a great relief it was that two psychopathic killers were no longer on the loose, and the beaches of Koh Tao were once again safe to enjoy."

Since the two murders last September 2014 and the arrest of the 2 now convicted of those crimes, no one has fortunately similarly been bludgeoned to death and left on the beaches of Koh Tao. When that has ever been mentioned before on these pages, the response has generally been:

Those psychopathic killers still on the loose are clever and just biding their time.

Headslap. You really think that is evidence of their guilt?

Well every natural and accidental death since ( some completely fabricated even) has been used in attempts to exonerate them, so why not?

It's what British police assert...

The crime scene was not secured

The crime scene was reconstructed for further photography... ( look at all the pics... Stuff has been "moved")

The DNA "lost or not" has been so corrupted as to render it useless

The British police stopped off in a huff citing lack of professionalism and cooperation from the RTPF...

Wether these two hapless sods are guilty or not can now never be proven... "Beyond reasonable doubt"...!

[gandalf12]

Slow news time in Samui? I can't think of any other reason why this article of reconstituted issues should be published at this time.

British TV just aired a documentary on the whole thing.

Channel 4 had a documentary on it called "Murder in Paradise" is that the one you are referring to?

[JLCrab]

While anyone is certainly entitled to their opinion as to what constitutes reasonable doubt, in this case, it is what the judges decide constitutes reasonable doubt that will determine the outcome of the appeal now in process.

[sidboy]

Well done Samui Times for this article - long overdue.

Maung Maung needs mentioning. Originally said to have also confessed by the police he then became a prosecution witness. Maung Maung originally said he left the B2 at 1am and returned to his shack to find them sleeping at 5am. After being interrogated and held at a safe house (no one was allowed to see him for many days and only then in the presence of the police) his story changed. He then said he was on the beach 4/4.30 with WP looking for shoes that were lost. Why did his story change? Someone change it for him? He was only called to the pre trial - why not at the full trial? Prosecution and police said they didn't know where he was anymore, couldn't be found. How worrying is this we must ask ourselves. He was on the beach possibly at the time the murders happened yet he was not deemed important enough to be called to give evidence at the full trial. He was kept away for a reason. What does that tell us? If I was on the defence team I would be hunting him down.

[Basil B]

Agree... there is no proof they are innocent.

But too much of the evidence has been brought into question, and as already pointed out there are others that could have done it as their alibis are just as rocky as the evidence used to convict these lads.

[gandalf12]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

[Khun Han]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

Dead men don't tell tales .

[sidboy]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

Dead men can't talk.

[MorristheRunt]

What happened to the UK coroner reports?

[gandalf12]

What happened to the UK coroner reports?

Didnt know there were any. The UK police were brought in just to observe

[JLCrab]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

Dead men can't talk.

Yes -- but they are alive now and they still haven't talked if they have anything to talk about.

[sidboy]

What happened to the UK coroner reports?

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016-02-08/family-of-murdered-norfolk-backpacker-pleaded-with-her-not-to-travel-to-thailand/

Coroner said Hannah was sexually assaulted. No mention of rape. Coroner's report for David not released as far as I know.

[MorristheRunt]

What happened to the UK coroner reports?

Didnt know there were any. The UK police were brought in just to observe

The death of any UK citizen, even on foreign soil still involves the UK coroner

[F4UCorsair]

Decisions handed down by the court of social media are non binding.....for a lot of reasons.

[sidboy]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

Dead men can't talk.

Yes -- but they are alive now and they still haven't talked if they have anything to talk about.

Probably because they want to remain alive. And they want their families to remain alive. Maybe they are prepared to serve the sentences because they have much guilt about what they know and possibly saw but dare not speak of. Lucky escape for Maung Maung (if he's still alive that is).

[dunroaming]

This is one of the most blatant miscarriages of justice ever seen in modern times. It illustrates the deph of corruption in Thailand and their total disregard for the truth. For a country that puts "face" in such high regard it is surprising that they cannot see that this is in fact an enormous loss of face and shows them in a very bad light indeed. Shame on you Thailand!

[007cableguy]

I have the Tuvichien family Thai Visa spokeswoman on ignore, so I can't read her posts. But I noticed she's already spamming this thread: 11 posts in about 2 and a half hours .

Also spamming the other K.T thread looks like she's been itching to get back into action!. Maybe the chickens are behaving and got more time on her hands lol

[JLCrab]

Question for anyone who can give a reasonable answer without the smart comments. These guys, let's say they are guilty for arguments sake, have been given the death penalty. Thai's who commit murder I never hear of getting the death penalty. Maybe they do and it just isnt reported I dont know but the thing is the sentence looks very biased. If you get the death penalty for murder, and I have no complaints about tat, then every murderer should be executed, so what makes these guys so special?

Dead men can't talk.

Yes -- but they are alive now and they still haven't talked if they have anything to talk about.

Probably because they want to remain alive. And they want their families to remain alive. Maybe they are prepared to serve the sentences because they have much guilt about what they know and possibly saw but dare not speak of. Lucky escape for Maung Maung (if he's still alive that is).

That answer has been going around since the judge asked them at the 26 DEC 2014 hearing if they knew who did it. So who were you last week?

[sidboy]

About post 89 to JLCrab - pink box wont let me reply to you.

I know that JL. I think they lied. I think they do know who did it. They should have told the truth. There is still time. Who was I last week? What does that mean?