Immigration Interview with minors

[bigmacdaddybone]

the marriage and divorce were in Thailand the child was born in Thailand ....and we made a formal agreement as to how we will deal with gov't agencies filed with the divorce ...i have full consent to handle & represent my child to any gov't agency..... the mother is Thai .......i am able to meet all the requirements ............my problem is this ........... i have the visa renewal .....i'm preparing for the renewal next year ..because the overstay penalties are very serious now .....i don't want to be caught out there with incomplete paperwork when so much time is available to get it right .... the i o wants the mother to consent to the visa renewal ......ok ...the ex is willing to do that ....and has done that ..(previously it wasn't necessary....even when we were married but separated)........what we are concerned about is ....the ex formally stated to the i o she will not be in Thailand in the near future ....and may not be here when it's time to renew next year & we both asked how to handle that situation with imm.......... we were told to have a consent form drawn up basically saying that the ex gives consent for me to apply for any visa application to care for the child .......... i went to professional & had that prepared in Thai .........i brought it to the i o to approve that it meets the requirements ....& it was thrown back at me & i'm told the ex has to be here every year ......i say you asked me to prepare this ....and how are we supposed to deal with this if the ex is not here .....please tell me ............. and i'm told the ex has to be here again .........end of conversation .....so we say when she told you she will not be here you told us to do this & now what ?......... so now we will use someone 'on the ground' to speak Thai to the i o .....to better understand the issue ...hopefully we can work it out ......dealing with the inconsistency of the i o s requirements is what is frustrating.

[ubonjoe]

the marriage and divorce were in Thailand the child was born in Thailand ....and we made a formal agreement as to how we will deal with gov't agencies filed with the divorce ...i have full consent to handle & represent my child to any gov't agency..... the mother is Thai .......i am able to meet all the requirements ............my problem is this ........... i have the visa renewal .....i'm preparing for the renewal next year ..because the overstay penalties are very serious now .....i don't want to be caught out there with incomplete paperwork when so much time is available to get it right .... the i o wants the mother to consent to the visa renewal ......ok ...the ex is willing to do that ....and has done that ..(previously it wasn't necessary....even when we were married but separated)........what we are concerned about is ....the ex formally stated to the i o she will not be in Thailand in the near future ....and may not be here when it's time to renew next year & we both asked how to handle that situation with imm.......... we were told to have a consent form drawn up basically saying that the ex gives consent for me to apply for any visa application to care for the child .......... i went to professional & had that prepared in Thai .........i brought it to the i o to approve that it meets the requirements ....& it was thrown back at me & i'm told the ex has to be here every year ......i say you asked me to prepare this ....and how are we supposed to deal with this if the ex is not here .....please tell me ............. and i'm told the ex has to be here again .........end of conversation .....so we say when she told you she will not be here you told us to do this & now what ?......... so now we will use someone 'on the ground' to speak Thai to the i o .....to better understand the issue ...hopefully we can work it out ......dealing with the inconsistency of the i o s requirements is what is frustrating.

Your divorce agreement should be enough to satisfy them.

I suggest you have your ex wife do the consent letter asked for and have it notarized at the embassy in London shortly before you will be applying for the extension.

If you were unable to get the one year extension you could apply for a 60 day extension to visit your child to get more time to sort things out before applying again,

[bigmacdaddybone]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

[johnatong]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

I would have thought it to be a straight forward and easy process. If the Mother is unable to care for the child (for whatever reason) no further debate is required.

It may of course get messy if the Mother objects in which case she would be required to present her case to the court.

[bigmacdaddybone]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

I would have thought it to be a straight forward and easy process. If the Mother is unable to care for the child (for whatever reason) no further debate is required.

It may of course get messy if the Mother objects in which case she would be required to present her case to the court.

me too exactly ...... there are no objections ...only from the i o ...... and it does not appear that the well being of the child has any importance

[johnatong]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

I would have thought it to be a straight forward and easy process. If the Mother is unable to care for the child (for whatever reason) no further debate is required.

It may of course get messy if the Mother objects in which case she would be required to present her case to the court.

me too exactly ...... there are no objections ...only from the i o ...... and it does not appear that the well being of the child has any importance

You missed my point !

Obtaining sole custody should be an easy process if , as you claim, the Mother is unable/unwilling to provide any care.

[bigmacdaddybone]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

I would have thought it to be a straight forward and easy process. If the Mother is unable to care for the child (for whatever reason) no further debate is required.

It may of course get messy if the Mother objects in which case she would be required to present her case to the court.

me too exactly ...... there are no objections ...only from the i o ...... and it does not appear that the well being of the child has any importance

You missed my point !

Obtaining sole custody should be an easy process if , as you claim, the Mother is unable/unwilling to provide any care.

if she leaves the child again ......& the attitude of the i o stays the same i will have to do that.

[Maestro]

when i ask her to go to imm for any reason she was willing while here ......... that's why i say she's cooperative ....i have the resources & grounds to get sole custody .......i just abhor dragging anyone especially a child through that ......its not pleasant for anyone .....custody trials .......

I would have thought it to be a straight forward and easy process. If the Mother is unable to care for the child (for whatever reason) no further debate is required.

It may of course get messy if the Mother objects in which case she would be required to present her case to the court.

me too exactly ...... there are no objections ...only from the i o ...... and it does not appear that the well being of the child has any importance

The i o, with which you presumably mean the immigration officer handling your application of extension of stay for the reason of living with your child, has no saying in the family court's consideration of an application for sole custody.

That the immigration officer wants to speak to a child of 11 years in connection with your type of application for extension of stay is standard procedure and it is wrong to interpret this as an indication that the officer has no concern for the wellbeing of your child.

[elviajero]

my problem is this ........... i have the visa renewal .....i'm preparing for the renewal next year ..because the overstay penalties are very serious now .....i don't want to be caught out there with incomplete paperwork when so much time is available to get it right ....

You should have no concerns with overstay. You can apply 30 (45 at some offices) days before the current permit to stay expires. If you apply early you will know any problems and have time to sort them out. A 60 day extension of stay is available as a parent which could provide another couple of months if necessary.

If for any reason to don't have time to renew the extension you can do a border hop, get a tourist visa or apply for a new non 'O' very easily.

[bigmacdaddybone]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i don't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before it can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

[elviajero]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i do't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before she can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

If you cant get an extension of stay you leave and get an new visa/permit to stay. Easy as a parent.

Why would you need to leave the child. Just take the child with you to your home/another country.

[stoneyboy]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i do't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before she can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

Of course they take great pleasure in making life difficult for foreigners living in Thailand with children or not,Thai laws and people of power are put in place for this reason,many are arrogant in their behaviour towards westerners when in places of authority such as immigration.

I have seen it first hand only two weeks ago when attempting to leave Suvarnabhumi airport with my daughter,the most ignorant person I have ever met,they show no respect and have very little compassion regarding individual situations and outcomes,a sad reflection on their on pitiful lives I suspect.

[bigmacdaddybone]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i do't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before she can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

If you cant get an extension of stay you leave and get an new visa/permit to stay. Easy as a parent.

Why would you need to leave the child. Just take the child with you to your home/another country.

Why does my child have to leave the country it was born in ......learn another language .....have to start out behind the other children because of a language barrier in school.....the child has a right to have all those things here....... adding stress & difficulties to it's childhood ..... and childhood i think is challenging enough for young people today .....so much different than when i was a child ......how about this if the child of an i o was living abroad with parents & the child was born in that nation was being educated in the language of that nation ......would they want to go though difficulties like this ........ for their children...... i'm just sayin''..... & the child has family here too grandparents & brothers ....do i have to separate the child from the family for something clerical?

[bigmacdaddybone]

my problem is this ........... i have the visa renewal .....i'm preparing for the renewal next year ..because the overstay penalties are very serious now .....i don't want to be caught out there with incomplete paperwork when so much time is available to get it right ....

You should have no concerns with overstay. You can apply 30 (45 at some offices) days before the current permit to stay expires. If you apply early you will know any problems and have time to sort them out. A 60 day extension of stay is available as a parent which could provide another couple of months if necessary.

If for any reason to don't have time to renew the extension you can do a border hop, get a tourist visa or apply for a new non 'O' very easily.

i wish i was being spoken to directly like this ..& .. i was presented with options like this ..and ideas as to.. how to handle this for the life of the child .....that would make things easy for all concerned i think ........... thank you elviajero.

[Maestro]

.....i'm preparing for the renewal next year ..

If I understand you correctly, your next application for extension of stay and with it the immigration officer's interview with your child you are so much fretting about will be next year, ie eight to 20 months from now. This gives you plenty of time to get sole custody of the child, but apply for it without delay as it will take several months to complete the process. Start a new topic in the "Family and children" forum if you need help with this.

[BritTim]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i do't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before she can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

If you cant get an extension of stay you leave and get an new visa/permit to stay. Easy as a parent.

Why would you need to leave the child. Just take the child with you to your home/another country.

Actually, taking the child out of the country may be difficult without the mother present. It should just be a matter of a letter of consent from the mother, but this is a more sensitive issue that an extension of stay.

[bigmacdaddybone]

i hope that what you say about the child's well being is a concern, is true ........... because that is my main concern ..... it's easy to talk talk about the options and ways of handling the care of a child..... as far as the parents being allowed to be present to care for them .....it's very simple to talk about ......... that is not happening ....its as laolover said

"What is the Immigration Office saying you have to do if they will not extend your visa? Leave? With or Without the child? What are they proposing the child's situation will be?"

....... really i do't know .....& that's why i'm being aggressive about being prepared for future renewals ..or interactions with imm the child is young ...& it will be many years before she can be independent.....is this going to be so difficult every year .......wondering & worrying will they let you care for your child here or not ..... & not knowing is stressful for the baby too .....should i start to tell it from now .....i cannot stay with you anymore baby ....& i don't know why ?

i just want to know how will the child be able to be cared for if the mother isn't here & i'm not allowed to stay ...... and i have no idea as to what to produce .....not if...... but WHEN that situation occurs that the ex will not be in the country & unable to appear at the imm office ....... i never had a problem with them speaking to my child ........i just wanted to know if they had the right to do it alone ......without the presence of some type of witness

If you cant get an extension of stay you leave and get an new visa/permit to stay. Easy as a parent.

Why would you need to leave the child. Just take the child with you to your home/another country.

Actually, taking the child out of the country may be difficult without the mother present. It should just be a matter of a letter of consent from the mother, but this is a more sensitive issue that an extension of stay.

we already signed off on that issue ....i'm free to travel with my child .......like i said the ex is cooperative ....we just want the baby to have a happy childhood

[JLCrab]

As Kuhn Maestro has suggested, it would seem that obtaining sole custody would solve your problem with the IMM office. If there is some reason you choose not to do this other than what you have stated, that is another matter.

[bigmacdaddybone]

Does it have to go to the courtroom ? .....can't we just agree and put a clause in the divorce agreement ...for example...if the ex is out of the country and unable to perform her parental duties in Thailand , full custody is given to the father?

[ubonjoe]

A confusing and misleading post and replies to it has been removed.

[JLCrab]

It seems clear at least to me that the IMM office in question wants both parties physically present if there is joint custody of a child before granting an extension to the non-Thai party based upon support of the child held in joint custody.

[ubonjoe]

Does it have to go to the courtroom ? .....can't we just agree and put a clause in the divorce agreement ...for example...if the ex is out of the country and unable to perform her parental duties in Thailand , full custody is given to the father?

I don't think trying to do something about it now will help. You will not know with any certainty what they will want until you apply for your next extension.

As I suggested before you should have a letter of consent done as a statement from your wife to apply for the extension as immigration told you previously. It could also include the reason for her not being able to be present. The letter should contain info about you (passport number and etc) your child. I suggest the letter be done shortly before applying for your next extension and it be notarized at the embassy in London.

You should apply for your extension 30 days early to give you time to get anything additional they might want. As said before if you cannot get the application submitted prior to your extension end you can apply for a 60 day extension to give your more time.

In the worst case you might have to make a trip to Penang to get a multiple entry non-o visa. It would mean making border hops every 90 day for a new entry.

[fosseway]

i'm divorced now & i need to be here to provide for my minor child ........i'm having some difficulty with that from the immigration office.....regarding the situation as to when the ex wife is not in the country .....which was the reason i applied for the dependency visa in the 1st place ... i have a dependency visa which i have renewed 3 x's ..... for the same reason the ex wife was not in the country ..... but now the i o says they want consent from the ex ....annually which they never asked for during the previous extensions..........& i'm saying how do i do that if she's not here .....& why do i need to... if i'm applying for a visa that facilitates a foreigner staying in Thailand to care for his child when the other parent is absent or negligent...... so if the situation arises & they want to talk to my child i want to know what the law is ......... because i'm providing all the documents ....my ex & i are not fighting or in a custody battle we just want to know what we have to do to make sure our child is cared for ......... so i want to know if it gets to where they want to talk to my child ....which i don't have a problem with ...... what are my rights ....& or better yet what are the child's rights ....does an adult in the role of guardian need to be present ? my child has been present for the renewal process . previously and asked questions which were answered honestly .... there are some that would like payouts to process things ..... so if alone with a i o of this nature and there is no witness to the conversation .... we can be pushed into a situation of payola versus procedures .... there fore my question today

Sounds like you need a Lawyer, not TV.

[ubonjoe]

i have shown them our divorce agreement that states joint custody ....it also states the mother now and forever consents to the father to have full authority to handle any and all matters for the Childs benefit with any & all government agencies ........... they just have to tell me what they want ...... we all agree ....i have the visa already i'm just trying to prepare for my next renewal ........with being asked to produce things that are impossible (having my ex wife come to the immigration office if she is not in the country) & the new penalties for overstay being more stringent i don't want to wait till next year to prepare my documents if its not clear what is required .........and get caught in a corner of overstay or else .....even if the advice was full custody tell me ......something sensible ..... not the impossible

It seems clear at least to me that the IMM office in question wants both parties physically present if there is joint custody of a child before granting an extension to the non-Thai party based upon support of the child held in joint custody.

Reading the post by the OP quoted above it appears the agreement is a bit more than just joint custody on his side of it. I appears to give him rights as the primary parent for custody.

Immigration told him to provide a consent letter when he got his current extension for the next one but said something different when he went back and asked about it.

IMO it is a unreasonable request for the ex wife to be present for the application even if she was still living here. She could be living and working a on the other side of the country that would require a long trip and several days of lost income.

[JLCrab]

In the US, there is the legal saw about being "... a little bit pregnant". Either you are or you aren't.

In Thailand, the 2 parental custody statuses are Joint or Sole. That's it.

[laolover88]

We still don't know the reason for their request that she be present, if there was one. I can't find any "regulation" or "stipulation" or law that requires her to be present. I'm not a lawyer, of course!

[JLCrab]

We still don't know the reason for their request that she be present, if there was one. I can't find any "regulation" or "stipulation" or law that requires her to be present. I'm not a lawyer, of course!

There likely isn't any regulation to that effect but, if that is the policy at that office, that is within their discretion to maintain such a policy.

[bigmacdaddybone]

We still don't know the reason for their request that she be present, if there was one. I can't find any "regulation" or "stipulation" or law that requires her to be present. I'm not a lawyer, of course!

There likely isn't any regulation to that effect but, if that is the policy at that office, that is within their discretion to maintain such a policy.

So then will it then be acceptable to amend the divorce agreement to say ....... if the woman is unable to be present for reason of employment or her location that full custody is granted to the father to manage affairs for the child with government agencies?? .... it seems there is no agreement as to why the ex need to be physically present at the immigration office ...... i'm just asking ? It just feels like being concerned about the welfare of a child and people who are the ones expected to provide for that life are being hindered when both parties Mother & Father are totally in cooperation to provide what's necessary.. ...... to achieve the objective of parenting a child ...... this really seems like all that is needed is the write form. Why does either party have to lose the rights to their child if they are in agreement as to how they will provide for that child? just don't see why its so hard .... can you help me understand that please?

[Maestro]

...both parties Mother & Father are totally in cooperation to provide what's necessary...

If this were the case, there would have been no need for you to start this topic. As it is, your ex-wife is abroad and cannot "provide what's necessary", ie be present at the immigration office for your application for extension of stay, which you said the immigration officer requested.

[Maestro]

...it seems there is no agreement as to why the ex need to be physically present at the immigration office ...... i'm just asking ?...

Until now you have said nowhere in this topic that the immigration officer told you that the presence of your ex-wife will be necessary for next year's application for extension of stay for the reason of living with your child.

In the past, when you were still married, your wife had to accompany you because your application was for the reason of living with your wife.