Brand-new Chatuchak bike lane becomes street food hub, parking lot

[Scouse Twoccer]

Biking is only worth mass hysteria when it's bike for dad day... All other days of the year bikers should know their place in society: At the bottom. ? ? ? ? ? ?

Ironically, a lot of them seem to think that their place is on the BTS, with their bikes.

[Prbkk]

Authorities are pathetic at clearing out vendors from illegal pitches. Incapable of reform!

Quite right and many people believe that these vendors/hawkers/slop merchants have been around forever; incorrect, they are relatively new, only the past 25 or 30 years.

Providers of street food used to be restricted to certain controlled areas: in some cases under cover, eg that area that has now been redeveloped as part of Chula, used to be seafood restaurants and market type food, similar to the places under plastic canopies off Sukhumvit and elsewhere.

Similarly it used to be quite pleasant to stroll through the patpong market when it was a 10th the size. Now it's a nightmare from hell.

Once it was possible to walk on the pavement before building owners decided they would have that space as well. Pity the cyclists, they have no hope.

[Mook23]

Biking is only worth mass hysteria when it's bike for dad day... All other days of the year bikers should know their place in society: At the bottom. ? ? ? ? ? ?

Ironically, a lot of them seem to think that their place is on the BTS, with their bikes.

Hub of lemmings, mass-hypes, brain-dead consumerism.

Years ago, me being the only cyclist in the soi (doing +/- 280km each week offroad), most of my Thai neighbours laughed about it, including the classic "farang keeneeow" ("no buy motorcycle"). Now they all have a bike and cycling jersey and helmet just to show off ("Gee baht ?") and use it once a year... Still love them <3<3<3

[fdimike]

Same problem here in Udon Thani. The worst situation is right under the nose of the Amphur and Salakrang where tuk tuks, trucks, motorcyclists etc have claimed the blue lane as their private parking areas. The only areas free to cycle in are those parts of the blue lane which has been separated from the roadway by a solid concrete curb. More for show just like most other things here in LOS.

[scorecard]

Authorities are pathetic at clearing out vendors from illegal pitches. Incapable of reform!

Quite right and many people believe that these vendors/hawkers/slop merchants have been around forever; incorrect, they are relatively new, only the past 25 or 30 years.

Providers of street food used to be restricted to certain controlled areas: in some cases under cover, eg that area that has now been redeveloped as part of Chula, used to be seafood restaurants and market type food, similar to the places under plastic canopies off Sukhumvit and elsewhere.

Similarly it used to be quite pleasant to stroll through the patpong market when it was a 10th the size. Now it's a nightmare from hell.

Once it was possible to walk on the pavement before building owners decided they would have that space as well. Pity the cyclists, they have no hope.

I add, the police know full well there has been / there continues to be a major crackdown on street vendors, beach vendors etc., etc., and they know why, but they somehow just can't get their act together (don't want to get their act together) to enforce the law.

Until the senior ( and more) police are removed and replaced by another force nothing will change.

Example, in one part of Ramkhamhaeng road the police told the street vendors who had taken over 90+% of the footpath that they had to move but nothing happened, the police spoke to them again and again, nothing happened.

Then some senior army officers arrived with the senior police and it was obvious the senior army officers were in charge, and making the senior police squirm. The army guys made the street vendors close down and go immediately.

The next evening, stalls all set up again, army seniors and police arrive and tell the vendors to close down immediately and go and never come back.

Next evening the vendors all set up again, the senior army guys and police arrive again. The most senior army guy tells the soldiers and police to throw everything: carts, food, clothes the whole lot on several big army trucks, no records, and take it away. Several vendors (including the street mafia lady) tried to bribe the truck drivers to tell them where they were taking everything, they refused to talk or take pieces of paper, obviously with phone numbers.

So why don't the police continue with this crackdown?

- Incompetence?

- Don't care?

- Don't disturb the revenue stream?

- Whatever...

I say again ... the police know full well there has been a major crackdown on street vendors, beach vendors etc., etc., and they know why, but they somehow just can't get their act together (don't want to get their act together) to enforce the law.

Until the senior (and more) police are removed and replaced by another force nothing will change.

I also wonder who is really in control of the police.

Edited May 4, 2016 by scorecard

[MaxYakov]

"BANGKOK: -- It looks like cyclists have lost the chance to [exclusively] use the brand-new bike lane at JJ market and Suan Rod Fai after street vendors, tuk-tuks and cars moved in and claimed the bicycle lane last month."

From the provided photo, it appears there is a narrow path remaining between the concrete barriers and the vendors. Additionally, there appears to be a relatively open sidewalk/footpath still available. As a cyclist of seven years in Bangkok and having been knocked off my bicycle on Sukhumvit Road by a careless bus driver and desiring to survive, I've come to the following conclusions:

1) Cyclists are essentially pedestrians and should not be sharing any road with motor vehicles any more than a pedestrian would

2) The sidewalks/footpaths should be utilized by cyclists as much as possible and streets with motor vehicles should be avoided

3) If a street is used, particularly with high-speed traffic it should be done with extreme caution and, ideally, when

there aren't any motor vehicles approaching.

4) I have found the sidewalks/footpaths to be 99% available traversable by bicycle - my travel time is increased, but what is the alternative?

5) I've cut my handlebars back to 20 inches and recently acquired a bike with 17-inch handlebars to support sidewalk travel.

"And the question now is, do we really need a bike lane in Chatuchak? "I don't think we should have a bike lane in Chatuchak. The road is already narrow. And there are not that many cyclists."

Using this logic, wheelchair-friendly facilities and handicapped parking should not exist because there are "not that many" wheelchair-bound and handicapped people, right? Agreed, that the relative dearth of cyclists in Bangkok does not seem to justify separate paths, but nor does the existence of paths justify their being commandeered by vendors and car parking.

You really couldn't cycle there now. It's too dangerous. The chances of a shopper/vendor stepping out in front of you are too great.

The same can be said for footpaths - I won't ride on footpaths because I don't want to inure a pedestrian.

Seven years of riding on roads and sidewalks/footpaths in Bangkok and never hit a pedestrian. The trick is to take extreme care when around pedestrians and/or give them a wide birth. If seemly, get off the bike and walk it or resort to the road temporarily. I followed a Thai kid one day on a dangerous and fast section of Sukhumvit who was expert at transitioning from sidewalk to road alternatively to avoid unsafe or slow transit situations on either.

Remember, my current survivalist cycling position is that being on a bicycle you are still essentially a pedestrian and, if you've got your act together, you are much more alert and aware than a pedestrian without a bicycle and you probably aren't distracted with your smart phone or some such as they often are. Also, as a cyclist on a sidewalk/footpath, you are not obligated to travel at any faster than walking speed nor are you obligated to ride it (you can walk it if the sidewalk/footpath situation so dictates).

Sure, I use the roads, but these days I use them sparingly and try use them when there are no oncoming motor vehicles. I have to travel several times daily on one of most dangerous roads in the Asoke area where even the sidewalks don't exist or are unusable.

Your alternative is to mix it up with motor vehicles on the road and risk a trip to the hospital or the morgue.

Do you want to survive your cycling experience? is the bottom line question.

What you describe is not cycling. It's going walking pace on a bicycle.

Most reasonably fit cyclists on a decent bike can maintain a speed of 25-30km/h. This is what cycling is and this is what cycling lanes are for. There is no point cycling at 7km/h.

A cycling lane is a place where you can ride in safety. That means not having a market stall on it where someone will step out in front of you.

I never cycle on sidewalks here. It's roads, cycle lanes, bike tracks and off road.

There are plenty of wide-open, pedestrian-free, bicycle-friendly sidewalks in Bangkok and I cruise at a good clip when I'm on those. I'm not one two dawdle at 7 Kmh on the sidewalk if I don't have to and certainly no dawdling and daydreaming when on the road. I own four road bikes, one a lightweight racing bike with 23 mm 700c tires which are, frankly, too narrow for urban Bangkok so it has its use restricted to Parks/Tracks.

My other three road bikes have 28mm 700c tires which I have found to be the best tradeoff for speed vs safety/controllability (especially in rain gutters). I push these road bikes when I can because I run cooler at high speeds and as impatient as any motorbike operator out there. I do say I can't maintain 30 Kph for much more than a few minutes, though, because I'm not in great shape due to too much lazy cycling. I also own a couple of foldable bikes, one is very lightweight and was purchased specifically to lug onto city buses so that I have a bike at my destination.

One notable one is a combined and dedicated sidewalk/footpath/bike lane that runs on the west side of Rachadamri between Silom (Rama VI) and Sukhumvit Road at Central. It usually has few pedestrians and is a challenging obstacle ride in several places. Also, the west side sidewalk of Rachadamri is marked for bicycle use with fewer pedestrians on the Lumphini Park end, although I often use the road on the East side of Rachadamri because the motor vehicle traffic seems saner and more sparse than the West side. You don't mind if I get off the road and ride in rain gutters do you? On my Soi, it's often the safest way to go because there are few sidwalks.

Sidewalk cycling is very demanding physically and the requirement for situational awareness and precise wheel placement is much more important than when on the road (omitting the requirement to constantly checking your 12 o'clock for that motor vehicle that may have your name on it - if you know what I mean - you do have mirrors and use them, yes?). Even on sidewalks one has to be alert to motorbikes that have also commandeered the sidewalk and are probably moving in either direction faster than you.

What I'm describing is a dynamic way of more safely riding in urban Bangkok and using the bicycle to a fuller potential under the existing conditions of extreme and often dangerous motor vehicle traffic and the minimal support for cyclists.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MaxYakov

[MaxYakov]

Authorities are pathetic at clearing out vendors from illegal pitches. Incapable of reform!

Quite right and many people believe that these vendors/hawkers/slop merchants have been around forever; incorrect, they are relatively new, only the past 25 or 30 years.

Providers of street food used to be restricted to certain controlled areas: in some cases under cover, eg that area that has now been redeveloped as part of Chula, used to be seafood restaurants and market type food, similar to the places under plastic canopies off Sukhumvit and elsewhere.

Similarly it used to be quite pleasant to stroll through the patpong market when it was a 10th the size. Now it's a nightmare from hell.

Once it was possible to walk on the pavement before building owners decided they would have that space as well. Pity the cyclists, they have no hope.

Yeah, a residential building owner on my Soi replaced the sidewalk with a new one but was sure to include a planter box the entire length leaving about 18 inches for walking and even that is narrowed to eight inches in places to accommodate several power poles. At least they actually placed plants in the boxes so it has some aesthetic appeal.

When I first observed cyclists in Bangkok in 2009 I came to the same "no hope" conclusion, but now that I have seven years of travel almost exclusively by bicycle in urban Bangkok, I've changed that opinion.

What I "hope" now is that most people will accept your prognosis because the last thing I want to see is more cyclists cluttering the sidewalks and roads of urban Bangkok.

I don't need any more of them in my face and distracting me as I'm sure the motor vehicle operators, pedestrians and other cyclists would agree (not to mention the curb lane, mobile food cart pushers).

Edited May 4, 2016 by MaxYakov

[wprime]

"BANGKOK: -- It looks like cyclists have lost the chance to [exclusively] use the brand-new bike lane at JJ market and Suan Rod Fai after street vendors, tuk-tuks and cars moved in and claimed the bicycle lane last month."

From the provided photo, it appears there is a narrow path remaining between the concrete barriers and the vendors. .....

I see where this is going but there's no way one could get a car through that gap, it would be difficult enough getting a car over those barriers. Not to say that it hasn't been attempted and achieved yet, but it's far from convenient.

[Classic Ray]

The reason you don't see many cyclists, or handicapped people in wheelchairs, is that safe, usable facilities have not been provided for them, not that there aren't many of them.

Sustrans in the UK campaigned for years for the provision of cycle paths and facilities, and the Disability Discrimination Act forced the provision of disabled parking place, access and toilets, releasing disabled people from the confines of their homes.

In Thailand, new roads and buildings still have little provision for anyone except the able-bodied and car users, because after all, the rich all have cars. Cyclists and the disabled are very low in anyone's priorities, below even pedestrians trying to negotiate uneven footpaths blocked with lampposts, advertising hoardings and signs.

[arunsakda]

The Army SHOULD collect all street vendors carts (and all goods and property) from designated bike lanes and load it onto trucks and RUBBISH it.

Don't compensate them bill them for disposal.

Keep this up every day until the nuisance is gone once and for all. The goal should be to have street vendors only in hawker centres like Singapore and day/ night markets as allowed, bid for, and maintained under a sustainable system where we have commercial street culture but also proper pavements for pedestrians, lanes for cyclists, and roads for cars.

Edited May 5, 2016 by arunsakda

[arunsakda]

The cars should be towed away and impounded under heavy fines. If not paid within 60 days auctioned away for the benefit of aged Army veterans. Jalopies and heaps ground to scrap metal.

Edited May 5, 2016 by arunsakda

[ianf]

Of course... cycling conceders an elitists sport reserved for the well to do and people with free

time on their hands, while those food sellers are aching a living, so to them. the priorities are

in different order than to the needs of cyclists.....

Yes, people with time on their hands indeed. Netizens are the new big brother. Armed with their smart phones, recording minor infractions and posting them on the social media for all of us to um and ar about.

"How terrible", "Poor cyclists", "Where are the police?", maybe there is a cash prize being offered by the current powers that be for grassing up your fellow man.

Everywhere in the world we are trying to encourage safe cycling. Bike Lanes are part of this process. What we see here is not a minor infraction worthy of people taking piccies on their smart phones as you seem to postulate. This is a major problem for Bangkok and would not be allowed in any civilized country. After all, they don't block the highway with their carts. It is a refusal by the Thais to conform to any standard, law or otherwise. perhaps this is because they are free spirits. That would be the generous view. Or perhaps because they are &lt;deleted&gt; stupid. That's my view.

Not many cyclists? The London experience has shown is that if you create facilities for people who ride bicycles then the number of cyclists will increase. But if you spend a lot of money for street vendors to block these cycling highways then the cyclists will stay away. Chang Mai has two new cycling lanes: One in the north seems to function quite well. The new one in the south is infested by a few food carts, people parking and motor cycles. I don't think these people will ever learn.

[JAG]

The Army SHOULD collect all street vendors carts (and all goods and property) from designated bike lanes and load it onto trucks and RUBBISH it.

Don't compensate them bill them for disposal.

Keep this up every day until the nuisance is gone once and for all. The goal should be to have street vendors only in hawker centres like Singapore and day/ night markets as allowed, bid for, and maintained under a sustainable system where we have commercial street culture but also proper pavements for pedestrians, lanes for cyclists, and roads for cars.

The cars should be towed away and impounded under heavy fines. If not paid within 60 days auctioned away for the benefit of aged Army veterans. Jalopies and heaps ground to scrap metal.

Coo, it would be a laugh a minute living here if you were in charge!

[arunsakda]

Why can't they ever learn? To move their animalistic &lt;deleted&gt; and rubbish out of the street?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bentfarang]

I really like this story. It epitomizes If not Thailand, certainly Bangkok.

Living on a small "one way" street with a recently completed footpath ,

makes absolutely no impression on Thais, they drive cars down the wrong way, park directly under large no parking signs,

& now drive motorbikes both ways on the footpath. Even the boys in brown come up the wrong way.

Selfish, selfish & selfish

I sit on my balcony and watch a police roadblock where they stop scooters mostly. The roadblock is 20m from a padestrian crossing with traffic lights, and even with th police right there motorists ignore the red light and don't give way to pedestrians. The police see it... but choose to rather enforce the scooters/bikes keep left rule. The bicycle lane idea will never work in Thailand in my lifetime. I life 800m from the office but will not use a bike as I would need to cross at that very pedestrian crossing I mentioned. It is a disgrace to the police and also to Thai motorists that not only are laws ignored, but than normal decency and courtesy is absent on Thai roads.

[MaxYakov]

Biking is only worth mass hysteria when it's bike for dad day... All other days of the year bikers should know their place in society: At the bottom. ? ? ? ? ? ?

Ironically, a lot of them seem to think that their place is on the BTS, with their bikes.

I've taken bikes on all forms of public transport in Bangkok including the city buses, river boats, airport link. BTS is the only one that doesn't require a foldable bike, but don't attempt to use any of them during rush hours, of course.

For the city buses I use a lightweight, alloy, 20-inch-wheel foldable. I did take a non-foldable, full-size road bike on a #54 bus one afternoon when it had a flat and the conductor assisted my lugging it up. There were few passengers on that particular bus.

Even without a bike, BTS and MRT are nightmares during rush hours (make that all of them, actually).

[MaxYakov]

"And the question now is, do we really need a bike lane in Chatuchak? "I don't think we should have a bike lane in Chatuchak. The road is already narrow. And there are not that many cyclists."

Using this logic, wheelchair-friendly facilities and handicapped parking should not exist because there are "not that many" wheelchair-bound and handicapped people, right?

No, what you said is completely illogical, unless you're the sort that considers cyclists as important as the disabled.

Yah think? Shouldn't you be out petitioning for a skateboard lane or something? Roller skates you say or would it be hoverboard-friendly infrastructure?

All seriousness aside, I was comparing the support of groups having distinct and unique infrastructure needs not comparing the qualities of the groups themselves.

I can assure you that there a lot more cyclists in Bangkok risking their lives on bicycles on a daily basis than there are wheelchair-bound individuals traveling about or handicapped trying to part. I can also assure you that some of those cyclists, especially the ignorant and/or the oblivious/careless, will eventually end up in wheelchairs if they persist in tempting fate on Thailand's roads.

Anyway, I don't know what that writer's complaint is since the motorists and food vendors have turned the bike lanes into outdoor restaurants and curb parking, regardless. I have the suspicion that he is not a cyclist to boot.

How about this prior to launching the BTS/Skytrain project:

"Why should we build a BTS/Skytrain - there aren't that many BTS riders and it would take up at least one car lane (not to mention lost outdoor restaurant space)?"

Edited May 6, 2016 by MaxYakov

[arunsakda]

Why does one hardly see Tow trucks in Thailand (auto wreckers)? Can't believe I endorse this but perhaps local governments should contract with private companies to keep the streets and bike lanes clear of parking violators. (Sis once popped into a bakery in Santa Monica. 5 minutes vehicle gone BTW. Cost her a bundle...)

Increase revenue and share profits from heavy fynes and impound tariffs.

Edited May 10, 2016 by arunsakda

[taony]

I bike all around Bangkok, have been since 2000. Agree that we don't need a bike lane on that road. Needed in other places more, especially big roads. They should divide the big roads into two, similar to like in China. Bikes and motorbikes in one section, cars in the other.

Even if i was riding on this road near jj market, on a weekday and even if there were no vendors in it, i wouldn't use that lane. Too dangerous to be trapped in such a narrow piece of road.