Neon lights left on all night seen as possible cause in Chiang Rai school fire that killed 17

[attrayant]

....terrible...

..why I objected to my daughters attending 'boarding schools'...

...nobody is ever responsible for anything....especially when the unthinkable occurs......

...all else....'out of sight, out of mind'.....

...virtually prisoners and at the whim of whomever....

...'taking a shower'.....???

...a 3 hour shower......

...yeah right....

In my mind, I read that post in the throaty voice of a movie announcer.

"Boarding Schools - coming to a theater near you."

[In the jungle]

"Oh, I imagine it's a language barrier thing, but I really don't think the lights they are talking about are neon lights. Neon lights are a lot more complicated. I think what they are talking about is what we would call in American, "flourescent lights."

Thai people call them neon lights because they are not neon lights.

What's hard to understand about that?

[johnno2]

Not possible, neon light, no matter how bright or how close to the light's cover, can not ignite

a fire as it doesn't omit and heat that can be hot enough to melt plastic and start a fire....

keep looking, or is it another cover up in the making going on there?......

I've measured 560V from a socket during a storm 20 kilometers away from our home - nothings surprises me with electrically instigated "failures" any more.

First wake up call for me was with our water heater in the shower room - zapping me after a storm from ~an arms length away, because of no proper grounding.

same thing happened to my wife. 2 days in hospital

[DaveinAsia]

It's all a matter of stinginess and adults who should be responsible having kiddie brains that never see danger. If they would've spent a few baht on smoke detectors, a few fire extinguishers and proper emergency exits probably nobody would be dead. Instead the boss pocketed the money and bought himself a new flat screen and air-con. Scum

RIP kids

Now I am 100% certain that you can back up and prove what you have just said.

Not only that but you will post the proof here on Thai Visa, as many social websites as you can find and also report the corruption to the police and all the relevant agencies.

Of course if you don't actually have any proof and the boss of the school finds out then you may be in for a whole world of trouble. Incidentally so would Thai Visa for posting it.

Try looking up libel online.

Doesn't scare me. Let them sue me, 555! It's called common sense and intelligence. Troll someone else apologist

[amykat]

I've been wondering if there was some garment factory type set up in the downstairs "activity room" which had lots of "bags of clothes for poor people" that the hot light supposedly fell into (according to some report I read yesterday.)

There seemed to be a few comments about why the fire was so huge, and moved so quickly, which was explained by these bags of clothes and the beds and bedding ...that doesn't seem to ring true to me, but I am no fire expert. All that bedding should have been upstairs for one and how much bedding do very poor people have here ...in the biggest heat wave ever? Almost none.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have any actual beds either.

Well I could go on with my theory, but maybe now isn't the time ...

[oldsailor35]

Not possible, neon light, no matter how bright or how close to the light's cover, can not ignite

a fire as it doesn't omit and heat that can be hot enough to melt plastic and start a fire....

keep looking, or is it another cover up in the making going on there?......

Ere 'ang on mate ! That theory came from none other than the RTP forensics upper echelon. So like the RTP forensics expert on Koh Tao, it must be correct.

[oldsailor35]

"No definitive cause of the fire has yet been found but the most likely answer is that a plastic casing of a ground floor neon light in an activity room melted and dripped onto four piles of clothes below that then ignited...One dormitory staff member was having a shower nearby when the fire took hold. Two maids had already gone home. Of two teaching assistants one was on holiday and another - Suchada Sase-mua. 23 - was sleeping with the children."

So typical. Divert the blame and responsibility away from the real culprits. Were the fire alarms and smoke detectors also on vacation? Did everyone forget what they were taught to do during fire drills? Did the fire retardant materials of which the building was constructed somehow fail? None of these safety measures were in place in the first place. So, how could they have the chance to fail.

This tragedy was a result of ignorance, stupidity and pure irresponsible neglect. The building was probably a tinder box waiting to be ignited. There was absolutely no fire or emergency warning systems in place. No sprinkler systems. No one was trained to act responsibly in such an emergency and I am sure that instead of holding fire drills which might have contributed to some more children surviving, they spent that time singing songs about how great everything is.

Yes. Thai authorities and most of the population will tell us not to try and force them to adopt western culture and mind our own business. In fact, in this case, what they are saying is that in Thailand life is a cheap commodity and doesn't deserve the attention to develop proven ways to save those lives in emergencies such as this tragedy.

Unfortunately, so many innocent young lives were sacrificed due a nation of adults who are too stubborn and ethnocentric to adopt responsible behaviors which would benefit the society as a whole. This isn't a case of cultural values. This is a case of how little value is placed on life.

You forgot to mention that the fire escape door was locked........................From the OUTSIDE ! <deleted> !

[Winniedapu]

"No definitive cause of the fire has yet been found but the most likely answer is that a plastic casing of a ground floor neon light in an activity room melted and dripped onto four piles of clothes below that then ignited...One dormitory staff member was having a shower nearby when the fire took hold. Two maids had already gone home. Of two teaching assistants one was on holiday and another - Suchada Sase-mua. 23 - was sleeping with the children."

So typical. Divert the blame and responsibility away from the real culprits. Were the fire alarms and smoke detectors also on vacation? Did everyone forget what they were taught to do during fire drills? Did the fire retardant materials of which the building was constructed somehow fail? None of these safety measures were in place in the first place. So, how could they have the chance to fail.

This tragedy was a result of ignorance, stupidity and pure irresponsible neglect. The building was probably a tinder box waiting to be ignited. There was absolutely no fire or emergency warning systems in place. No sprinkler systems. No one was trained to act responsibly in such an emergency and I am sure that instead of holding fire drills which might have contributed to some more children surviving, they spent that time singing songs about how great everything is.

Yes. Thai authorities and most of the population will tell us not to try and force them to adopt western culture and mind our own business. In fact, in this case, what they are saying is that in Thailand life is a cheap commodity and doesn't deserve the attention to develop proven ways to save those lives in emergencies such as this tragedy.

Unfortunately, so many innocent young lives were sacrificed due a nation of adults who are too stubborn and ethnocentric to adopt responsible behaviors which would benefit the society as a whole. This isn't a case of cultural values. This is a case of how little value is placed on life.

You're right of course.

Neon lighting does not overheat if properly wired.

Melting plastic does not ignite clothing in its drip path unless it is already burning.

The reason is that Thailand is a 3rd-world country, full of third-world people with third-world educations and 14th-world competence. However much they may like to have wet dreams about getting to be in the developed world in 10 years (little general Prayuth), it isn't going to happen, and this is one of the reasons why.

The best thing foreigners can do is make sure our own environment is safe, and leave the Thais to fend for themselves - they neither want, nor are able to understand our advice, and after each stupidity-caused death they'll be running off the the local wat to pray for better luck.

After 11 years in Thailand, I've decided it is better for my health and state of mind to just let them get on with it. Helping is seen as condescension, trying to teach them will be in vain because they've had a lifetime of being told they are better than other countries and other peoples because of a certain mythology that we can't talk about. It really is futile in my experience, Frustrating though it may be and much though many of us would like to help, Thais don't want help, they only want money, by fair means or foul. Separating a foreigner from his money is proof positive of superior intellect, every Thai knows this, because that's what they've been taught for generations..

Winnie

Edited May 24, 2016 by Winniedapu

[oldsailor35]

Why can't you people let the kids and their families have their services and give the Thai authorities a chance to prove that they are capable of determining what caused this tragedy.

Horrible fires happen everywhere, including your precious and perfect home countries yet you heap scorn on the investigation before they have even had a chance to begin.

That's because in typical RTP style, they make stupid off the cuff statements and we are not uneducated Isaan rice farmers. WE get really sick of these idiot RTP officers trying to sound important and smart.

[Artisi]

How can there not be any smoke alarms or smoke detectors in a house where 38 students sleep every night? That technology is from the last century.

Very easy, TIT.

[oldsailor35]

This country comes up with some of the most creative excuses for death and destruction in modern times...it is always interesting to see what completely lame possible causes they can come up with...

My all time favorite is still: Couple of farangs found decapitated and floating in the water around their yacht...officials suggested suicide...yep...no murder here folks...

Yes and the young French guy who committed suicide on Koh Tao by hanging himself........with his hands tied behind his back !

[Winniedapu]

Why can't you people let the kids and their families have their services and give the Thai authorities a chance to prove that they are capable of determining what caused this tragedy.

Horrible fires happen everywhere, including your precious and perfect home countries yet you heap scorn on the investigation before they have even had a chance to begin.

That's because in typical RTP style, they make stupid off the cuff statements and we are not uneducated Isaan rice farmers. WE get really sick of these idiot RTP officers trying to sound important and smart.

There's a reason for that. Every Thai I've ever met has chronic blurt-itis. A western education teaches that if you have an idea or a thought, it needs to be checked by the brain for usefulness *before* being spoken. Thais do not have this mechanism; to think something is to blurt it out, it's almost as if instead of going for review in the brain, a thought goes directly to the mouth, especially if someone thrusts a microphone in their face.

This is why so many times, people who should know better just blurt something out only to be contradicted (or 'clarified') in the following hours. There have been several spectacular examples of this just in the last week or so, and every one makes the blurter look like a complete fool. The most recent one was Prawit himself in connection with the EU (though to be fair, Prawit probably is a complete fool).

IMHO, one of the first lessons all Thais should learn is to think before doing anything, even if the doing is only speaking. Much better signal-to-noise ratio if they can manage to learn that much.

The second lesson Thais badly need to learn is to ask themselves 'is it my job and my responsibility to say this, because if it isn't I'm going to keep my mouth shut and let someone else cock it up'.

Communications in Thailand would improve out of sight if even that much can be taught to them.

Winnie

Edited May 24, 2016 by Winniedapu

[oldsailor35]

I wonder how many schools/dormitories in Thailand have fire detectors installed? Probably not many!!! Thais are reactive, not proactive, they cannot, or choose not to, see any dangers, ignorance is bliss here in Thailand..

If only someone could invent a smoke alarm app for a smart phone (that costs less than a cheap smoke alarm at Walmart but isn't normally as useful).

Hopefully one of the trained investigators is familiar with available resources.

http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

old Sergeant Somchai over there has made us a lot of money over the years, so lets make him " Trained investigator" he will be proud.

[oldsailor35]

Why can't you people let the kids and their families have their services and give the Thai authorities a chance to prove that they are capable of determining what caused this tragedy.

Horrible fires happen everywhere, including your precious and perfect home countries yet you heap scorn on the investigation before they have even had a chance to begin.

What makes you think this Tragedy will be any different from any similar ones, nobody will be to blame, just an Electrical Issue and that,s it Bloody Disgraceful, where were the Carers, gone home! so they will not be held accountable will they!

Read the facts ! A 23 yr old teacher was sleeping with the kids !

[oldsailor35]

Makeshift ropes. Fire escape stairs perhaps? Sorry, not required or enforced in Thailand.

The fire escape door in my apartment in Pattaya has been locked with a massive padlock since I've moved in 18 months ago, despite numerous protests to the landlord. Just praying there won't be a fire!

If you accept that then you are an idiot !

[oldsailor35]

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/fires/by-country/ Thailand is very low on the list.

Is this only household fires ?

[oldsailor35]

I doubt very much that the cause of fire was neon tubular lighting being left on all night .

I think more likely a poor electrical installation or old wiring that caused an electrical short .

Shouldn't such a building have smoke alarms ; there should be emergency stairs or fire escapes ?

There is ignorance and a failure of the public body responsible for the building to ensure its safety .

Western countries have health and safety and building regulations , which are more often a costly nuisance ,

but in this case could have saved lives .

Did'nt you read the facts ? There was a fire escape, but it was locked ..........from the outside !

[manhood]

Thanks to the well trained and educated firebrigade and the police and the officials in that case!

They will never get down to the real fact that causes the buring as they have no idea how and they "can't find out" by reasons that shows the bad and dangerouse standard of the building!

Parents should get direct to court with all responsible involved in the set up of the building and maintaining the building. Ups sorry forget it's Thailand: nobody is responsible!

[billd766]

Bearing in mind most Thais leave strip lights on all night because they're afraid of ghosts, an electrical fault plausible.

I have some strip lights around the house both inside and outside that have been in place for about 13 years and are usually on about 12 hours a day or night and apart from replacing the tubes or starters I have had no problems, even with the ones that are outside in all weathers. The outside ones are for security.

[billd766]

It's all a matter of stinginess and adults who should be responsible having kiddie brains that never see danger. If they would've spent a few baht on smoke detectors, a few fire extinguishers and proper emergency exits probably nobody would be dead. Instead the boss pocketed the money and bought himself a new flat screen and air-con. Scum

RIP kids

Now I am 100% certain that you can back up and prove what you have just said.

Not only that but you will post the proof here on Thai Visa, as many social websites as you can find and also report the corruption to the police and all the relevant agencies.

Of course if you don't actually have any proof and the boss of the school finds out then you may be in for a whole world of trouble. Incidentally so would Thai Visa for posting it.

Try looking up libel online.

Doesn't scare me. Let them sue me, 555! It's called common sense and intelligence. Troll someone else apologist

I notice that you have not denied it.

Then I hope that they do sue you.

Do you have any proof of what you say at all?

If not then you are quite simply telling lies.

No I am not an apologist, just someone who cannot abide bare faced liars.

Edited May 24, 2016 by billd766

[cumgranosalum]

Sad, but another example why Thailand is still a 3rd world country and will be for a long time. Safety, is not in their beliefs.

Sad yes, but how many examples of similar occurrences in recent years in supposed first world countries would you like. First one in mind apparently because of a Government building manager allowing chairs (with highly flammable and toxic seats) by the elevators .............. (likely underneath the ashtray or to be used as one). I think they're being fined for combustible materials left in a public corridor, and maybe some question over the fire alarm inspections.

In two years all will be history until the next time.

the difference being exactly as you recount - the people responsible are brought to book!

[Winniedapu]

It's all a matter of stinginess and adults who should be responsible having kiddie brains that never see danger. If they would've spent a few baht on smoke detectors, a few fire extinguishers and proper emergency exits probably nobody would be dead. Instead the boss pocketed the money and bought himself a new flat screen and air-con. Scum

RIP kids

Now I am 100% certain that you can back up and prove what you have just said.

Not only that but you will post the proof here on Thai Visa, as many social websites as you can find and also report the corruption to the police and all the relevant agencies.

Of course if you don't actually have any proof and the boss of the school finds out then you may be in for a whole world of trouble. Incidentally so would Thai Visa for posting it.

Try looking up libel online.

Doesn't scare me. Let them sue me, 555! It's called common sense and intelligence. Troll someone else apologist

I notice that you have not denied it.

Then I hope that they do sue you.

Do you have any proof of what you say at all?

If not then you are quite simply telling lies.

No I am not an apologist, just someone who cannot abide bare faced liars.

<deleted> I thought better of it... sorry.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Winniedapu

[8OA8]

"No definitive cause of the fire has yet been found but the most likely answer is that a plastic casing of a ground floor neon light in an activity room melted and dripped onto four piles of clothes below that then ignited...One dormitory staff member was having a shower nearby when the fire took hold. Two maids had already gone home. Of two teaching assistants one was on holiday and another - Suchada Sase-mua. 23 - was sleeping with the children."

So typical. Divert the blame and responsibility away from the real culprits. Were the fire alarms and smoke detectors also on vacation? Did everyone forget what they were taught to do during fire drills? Did the fire retardant materials of which the building was constructed somehow fail? None of these safety measures were in place in the first place. So, how could they have the chance to fail.

This tragedy was a result of ignorance, stupidity and pure irresponsible neglect. The building was probably a tinder box waiting to be ignited. There was absolutely no fire or emergency warning systems in place. No sprinkler systems. No one was trained to act responsibly in such an emergency and I am sure that instead of holding fire drills which might have contributed to some more children surviving, they spent that time singing songs about how great everything is.

Yes. Thai authorities and most of the population will tell us not to try and force them to adopt western culture and mind our own business. In fact, in this case, what they are saying is that in Thailand life is a cheap commodity and doesn't deserve the attention to develop proven ways to save those lives in emergencies such as this tragedy.

Unfortunately, so many innocent young lives were sacrificed due a nation of adults who are too stubborn and ethnocentric to adopt responsible behaviors which would benefit the society as a whole. This isn't a case of cultural values. This is a case of how little value is placed on life.

No fire alarms! So simple--can be battery powered. But then again, the batteries have to be changed every year....

Many places such as the UK require new build homes to have hardwired smoke detectors, reason for this is that the early smoke detectors had batteries that were the same as the remote control unit for the TV. When TV remote control batteries went flat it was usually noticed when everyone is sitting for comfortable night in. Quick answer to the problem was borrow the batteries from the smoke detector and get new batteries the following day, of course the following day the smoke detector is same as ever, sitting silent, the remote control for TV is working as normal, all good, until....

[spidermike007]

As is usually the case, no fire safety standards were enforced. No fire escapes, fire extinguisher, sprinklers, additional exits, or smoke alarms. And who is responsible?

1. The entire administration of the city of Chiang Rai.

2. The entire administration of Prayuth.

3. All "safety" officials, who were also sleeping on the job.

Heads should roll. The owner of the facility should spend the rest of his or her life in prison, after being convicted of 18 counts of involuntary manslaughter.

[MobileContent]

According to my wife the doors were locked from the outside thats why so many girls had to perish in the fire.

[cdnvic]

Some of you need to calm down please.

[NCFC]

"No definitive cause of the fire has yet been found but the most likely answer is that a plastic casing of a ground floor neon light in an activity room melted and dripped onto four piles of clothes below that then ignited...One dormitory staff member was having a shower nearby when the fire took hold. Two maids had already gone home. Of two teaching assistants one was on holiday and another - Suchada Sase-mua. 23 - was sleeping with the children."

So typical. Divert the blame and responsibility away from the real culprits. Were the fire alarms and smoke detectors also on vacation? Did everyone forget what they were taught to do during fire drills? Did the fire retardant materials of which the building was constructed somehow fail? None of these safety measures were in place in the first place. So, how could they have the chance to fail.

This tragedy was a result of ignorance, stupidity and pure irresponsible neglect. The building was probably a tinder box waiting to be ignited. There was absolutely no fire or emergency warning systems in place. No sprinkler systems. No one was trained to act responsibly in such an emergency and I am sure that instead of holding fire drills which might have contributed to some more children surviving, they spent that time singing songs about how great everything is.

Yes. Thai authorities and most of the population will tell us not to try and force them to adopt western culture and mind our own business. In fact, in this case, what they are saying is that in Thailand life is a cheap commodity and doesn't deserve the attention to develop proven ways to save those lives in emergencies such as this tragedy.

Unfortunately, so many innocent young lives were sacrificed due a nation of adults who are too stubborn and ethnocentric to adopt responsible behaviors which would benefit the society as a whole. This isn't a case of cultural values. This is a case of how little value is placed on life.

There are a number of cultural flaws in the western logic used by several posters to make comment on this situation.

1. Life IS cheap!! Everyone gets a "next' one and it may well be better than this one. If it isn't, then you probably wasted opportunities to make merit this time.

2. And, if something bad happens to you this time, then you are probably being punished for bad things you did in this life, or your last life. I have even heard this logic used to explain an injured dog. "He must have been someone bad in his last life."

3. Also, if someone is pre-ordained to die on a certain day then nothing you silly Farangs suggest are going to change things. This is the logic for not using seat belts, crash helmets and riding on the back of pickups. "Your number is either up or not up on any given day. Life if like a lottery, all down to luck. If you were due to die today then there is nothing you could do about it anyway, so why worry about it?" That's Alfred E, Newman logic. "What, me worry?"

4. If they come up quickly with a reason like "neon lights dripping plastic" then, as someone else suggested it looks like "they are onto it." AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, no-on is going to be to blame! No one has to lose face and explain why there were no smoke alarms, fire drills, responsible staff awake on duty, fire escapes, fire extinguishers. See? Simple, isn't it? It was no-one's fault!!! It was like it was pre-ordained to happen. Just bad luck!

If it was not so desperately tragic, it would be laughable. Where they are allowed to,Thai values (safety standards and forward planning) trump modern western values, every time. I say "modern western values" because we mustn't be too smug. Times eventually change everywhere. In the 60's in my home country when I wanted to install seatbelts in my parents' car, a number of adults told me that seatbelts were just the hall mark of the self-confessed bad driver.

What an excellent post, sir.

[DaveinAsia]

It's all a matter of stinginess and adults who should be responsible having kiddie brains that never see danger. If they would've spent a few baht on smoke detectors, a few fire extinguishers and proper emergency exits probably nobody would be dead. Instead the boss pocketed the money and bought himself a new flat screen and air-con. Scum

RIP kids

Now I am 100% certain that you can back up and prove what you have just said.

Not only that but you will post the proof here on Thai Visa, as many social websites as you can find and also report the corruption to the police and all the relevant agencies.

Of course if you don't actually have any proof and the boss of the school finds out then you may be in for a whole world of trouble. Incidentally so would Thai Visa for posting it.

Try looking up libel online.

Doesn't scare me. Let them sue me, 555! It's called common sense and intelligence. Troll someone else apologist

I notice that you have not denied it.

Then I hope that they do sue you.

Do you have any proof of what you say at all?

If not then you are quite simply telling lies.

No I am not an apologist, just someone who cannot abide bare faced liars.

How can you stand neglecter's who are responsible for 18 peoples lives? That's the most important question here. I didn't do anything wrong besides mesmerizing, analysing and guessing. Hardly a crime on TVF is it? That's why we come to the forum. To give our 2 cents on different matters. I saw at least 10 other posts that were much more incriminating than mine but still you didn't say anything to them, strange. If we were all journalists who needed facts backed up by one or two credible sources we'd be working at Newsweek or Time, wouldn't we, 555

Edited May 25, 2016 by DaveinAsia