Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever?

[Rimmer]

Please stop discussing surveys in other countries and how they are conducted, the topic is about:

Foreign owned business closings

[JESSVANPELT]

Jingthing, I have a question after a couple of days to think about this topic. My question is of those foreign business which have recently gone out of business how many had been in business for more then two years?

I use two years as a personal barometer as in my experience its within two years that most businesses have failed, if they are started by an except who has never ran a business and is talked in to doing so by his girlfriend or its a retiree with a big ego and fatter wallet. Most don't know how to plan for the low season, most pick poor locations and unfortunately most know nothing about running a business.

The only other thing that occasionally occurs is sometimes a landlord may raise the monthly rent making it impossible to make a profit, so they are forced to close or relocate. ( thus the poor planning of the owner not getting a longterm lease).

just some thoughts I thought I would share.

Those who have been open more then three years and now being forced to close would be of great interest, as to what types of business they had been.

Thanks

[Asiantravel]

Jingthing another failure ? in the other thread you started " The garish new fake western style building on the Tappraya Road hill ' there was mention of Williams family restaurant.

As i went past today there was a truck outside and several workers stripping the place bare

Edited June 1, 2016 by Asiantravel

[onemorechang]

Jingthing, I have a question after a couple of days to think about this topic. My question is of those foreign business which have recently gone out of business how many had been in business for more then two years?

I use two years as a personal barometer as in my experience its within two years that most businesses have failed, if they are started by an except who has never ran a business and is talked in to doing so by his girlfriend or its a retiree with a big ego and fatter wallet. Most don't know how to plan for the low season, most pick poor locations and unfortunately most know nothing about running a business.

The only other thing that occasionally occurs is sometimes a landlord may raise the monthly rent making it impossible to make a profit, so they are forced to close or relocate. ( thus the poor planning of the owner not getting a longterm lease).

just some thoughts I thought I would share.

Those who have been open more then three years and now being forced to close would be of great interest, as to what types of business they had been.

Thanks

I would say a lot more Farang business are going under at present than two years ago.

Running a business in Thailand as a foreigner is just to hard.

if you can afford to stay here and not run a business to live, that's the best thing.

Don't start a businesses for the wife girlfriend or boyfriend, nearly all can't even run a bath

and most will Fxzxzxzxup a cup of coffee.

Also there is way to-many business doing that same type of business, big over supply of these in pattaya.

I feel the pie is not getting any larger, despite the resent influx of the Chinese

but more people want a slice of the same pie. (no hab more pie mister)

i feel you need to own the premises 100% you run your businesses from, if not overheads will kill you off.

greedy landlords, are woeful in Thailand. (landlords have the best income in this town)

Pattaya has shown how fickle it is, now the Russians have gone and the Chinese have come.

They don't want the westerner anymore. Immigration and work permits issues are going to get more difficult in the future for non Thai business people.

Run a business in this town, no way,

Golf, Beer Chang, Red wine and ladies way more fun for retirement.

Edited June 1, 2016 by onemorechang

[thaiduncankk]

I ran one for nearly 10 years. I got in at the right time (2005), and managed to sell it, for a small profit, at the end of 2014.

Mostly, it was a great life, many friends were made, but people change and move on.

People pass away, some people move away for various reasons, and some are forced to return home, also for various reasons. Although new customers appear, financially, they rarely replace the bread and butter customers that have moved on.

I have the finances to do it again, but I am quite happy living a stress free life.

[ttthailand]

Soi LK Metro always popular with Brits and many Falang owned businesses. I agree with the poster below who says

Without actually counting there must be around a dozen agogos in the soi that vary in quality but with the majority continually proving popular.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/920983-the-changing-face-of-pattayas-lk-metro-by-the-pattaya-sleuth/

I believe you have to take the opinions of JT with a grain of salt because he didn't make it in Thailand and has to go home if his other posts are any indication. A better source would be the Inspire group who actually works in Thailand.

LK Metro was busy the last time I visited a few months ago. I have found that some places are busy and some are not.

For those old timers, do you remember Pattaya Land soi one and two. This area had about 8 gogo bars and the streets were crazy with punters every night. The bars were packed for a few years and then just like that it started to die and now it is dead ... The hot spots change every 7 to 10 years and Soi LK Metro will follow history. I just wonder where the next hot spot will be ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I use two years as a personal barometer as in my experience its within two years that most businesses have failed, if they are started by an except who has never ran a business and is talked in to doing so by his girlfriend or its a retiree with a big ego and fatter wallet. Most don't know how to plan for the low season, most pick poor locations and unfortunately most know nothing about running a business.

The only other thing that occasionally occurs is sometimes a landlord may raise the monthly rent making it impossible to make a profit, so they are forced to close or relocate. ( thus the poor planning of the owner not getting a longterm lease).

just some thoughts I thought I would share.

Thanks

I would say a lot more Farang business are going under at present than two years ago.

Don't start a businesses for the wife girlfriend or boyfriend, nearly all can't even run a bath

and most will Fxzxzxzxup a cup of coffee.

Pattaya has shown how fickle it is, now the Russians have gone and the Chinese have come.

Run a business in this town, no way,

Pattaya is still here...I think it's the Russians who have been fickle. ? Edited June 1, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[onemorechang]

I would say a lot more Farang business are going under at present than two years ago.

Running a business in Thailand as a foreigner is just to hard.

if you can afford to stay here and not run a business to live, that's the best thing.

Don't start a businesses for the wife girlfriend or boyfriend, nearly all can't even run a bath

and most will Fxzxzxzxup a cup of coffee.

Also there is way to-many business doing that same type of business, big over supply of these in pattaya.

I feel the pie is not getting any larger, despite the resent influx of the Chinese

but more people want a slice of the same pie. (no hab more pie mister)

i feel you need to own the premises 100% you run your businesses from, if not overheads will kill you off.

greedy landlords, are woeful in Thailand. (landlords have the best income in this town)

Pattaya has shown how fickle it is, now the Russians have gone and the Chinese have come.

They don't want the westerner anymore. Immigration and work permits issues are going to get more difficult in the future for non Thai business people.

Run a business in this town, no way,

Golf, Beer Chang, Red wine and ladies way more fun for retirement.

Pattaya is still here...I think it's the Russians who have been fickle. ?

That's funny thought it was because the Ruble crashed.

[tropo]

I can't actually explicitly talk about what I have implied. You'll have to read between the lines and so far it seems, nobody has.

If you can't why post it at an open forum and let people speculate

You are very welcome to ignore my posts. I'm not going further and I won't be BAITED to by the likes of you either. You live here. Are you really that NAIVE?

Cheers.

Geez... if we ignore your posts there won't be much left to read. I must be extremely naive too as I don't have a clue what you're on about here. A post about nothing?

[rgs2001uk]

Soi LK Metro always popular with Brits and many Falang owned businesses. I agree with the poster below who says

Without actually counting there must be around a dozen agogos in the soi that vary in quality but with the majority continually proving popular.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/920983-the-changing-face-of-pattayas-lk-metro-by-the-pattaya-sleuth/

I believe you have to take the opinions of JT with a grain of salt because he didn't make it in Thailand and has to go home if his other posts are any indication. A better source would be the Inspire group who actually works in Thailand.

LK Metro was busy the last time I visited a few months ago. I have found that some places are busy and some are not.

For those old timers, do you remember Pattaya Land soi one and two. This area had about 8 gogo bars and the streets were crazy with punters every night. The bars were packed for a few years and then just like that it started to die and now it is dead ... The hot spots change every 7 to 10 years and Soi LK Metro will follow history. I just wonder where the next hot spot will be ?

For those old timers, do you remember Pattaya Land soi one and two.

I rememebr them well, that placed stared dying by greed about 16 years ago when the Anzac Hotel forced out due to the rental increase.

Remember Daves GB Bar when it first it was on Beach Rd,then moved to PL, then moved to nakon nowhere on Second Rd?

Where is Palmers Bar now?

Its the rentals these guys have to pay that kills them, not the lack of customers, strange isnt it, the Thai owned places are still going..

Not mentioned above about PL 1 & 2 was when BoyzTown bars from PL 3 started creeping in.

[lou62]

^ A few months ago Palmers was on the same Soi but on the other side and almost directly opposite to his old place.

Unless it's gone now of course.

[onemorechang]

^ A few months ago Palmers was on the same Soi but on the other side and almost directly opposite to his old place.

Unless it's gone now of course.

Well there is one successes story, Palmers

i assume bob is still there.

not been down his places for a few years.

Ok guy to talk to, food ok to.

Good luck to you Bob

[JESSVANPELT]

Jingthing, I have a question after a couple of days to think about this topic. My question is of those foreign business which have recently gone out of business how many had been in business for more then two years?

I use two years as a personal barometer as in my experience its within two years that most businesses have failed, if they are started by an except who has never ran a business and is talked in to doing so by his girlfriend or its a retiree with a big ego and fatter wallet. Most don't know how to plan for the low season, most pick poor locations and unfortunately most know nothing about running a business.

The only other thing that occasionally occurs is sometimes a landlord may raise the monthly rent making it impossible to make a profit, so they are forced to close or relocate. ( thus the poor planning of the owner not getting a longterm lease).

just some thoughts I thought I would share.

Those who have been open more then three years and now being forced to close would be of great interest, as to what types of business they had been.

Thanks

I would say a lot more Farang business are going under at present than two years ago.

Running a business in Thailand as a foreigner is just to hard.

if you can afford to stay here and not run a business to live, that's the best thing.

Don't start a businesses for the wife girlfriend or boyfriend, nearly all can't even run a bath

and most will Fxzxzxzxup a cup of coffee.

Also there is way to-many business doing that same type of business, big over supply of these in pattaya.

I feel the pie is not getting any larger, despite the resent influx of the Chinese

but more people want a slice of the same pie. (no hab more pie mister)

i feel you need to own the premises 100% you run your businesses from, if not overheads will kill you off.

greedy landlords, are woeful in Thailand. (landlords have the best income in this town)

Pattaya has shown how fickle it is, now the Russians have gone and the Chinese have come.

They don't want the westerner anymore. Immigration and work permits issues are going to get more difficult in the future for non Thai business people.

Run a business in this town, no way,

Golf, Beer Chang, Red wine and ladies way more fun for retirement.

Thanks for the comments and I don't disagree. but i was not asking to compare with two years ago. I had asked if they had been in business more then two years. A lot more going out of business? where? I Socialize in central Pattaya and don't see many changes.

Edited June 2, 2016 by JESSVANPELT

[Asiantravel]

" however isn't China the last to suffer from the economic crisis of 2008/9? "

the big problem is after the 2007 financial crisis everyone relied on China to be the financial shock absorber for rest of the world, a role which it certainly can no longer fulfil and so now there are no shock absorbers left anywhere. (It was hoped by now USA would be back to carrying out this role but we can definitely dismiss that one)

http://blogs.ft.com/the-exchange/2015/08/19/12621/

Well that is it, they are looking to everyone to ease or eradicate the burden, due to them financing the resolve of the latest recession.. but wasnt that financial resolve/debt incurred with huge interest rates?

China is fast becoming a scarey power of finance, almost the controller. Them suffering can only be good for western growth.

You've got to hand it to the chinese. they have managed to finance a debt to help keep either own country in business.. their economy relies hugely on the spending of other, if others arent spending China hasn't a resolve.

Of course only time will tell if it was a wise decision for Pattaya’s authorities to put all their eggs in one basket and rely on continued patronage from Chinese tourists in large numbers. But it’s impossible to ignore the increasing warnings from so many which lately seem to be coming out on a daily basis.

Richard Duncan was former Global Head of Investment Strategy at ABN AMRO Asset Management and he explains why China’s hard landing has already begun

he says “China’s economy resembles a spinning top that is running out of momentum. It is wobbling and gyrating erratically,”

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/1952783/how-credit-fuelled-chinas-incredible-boom

Edited June 2, 2016 by Asiantravel

[JESSVANPELT]

" however isn't China the last to suffer from the economic crisis of 2008/9? "

the big problem is after the 2007 financial crisis everyone relied on China to be the financial shock absorber for rest of the world, a role which it certainly can no longer fulfil and so now there are no shock absorbers left anywhere. (It was hoped by now USA would be back to carrying out this role but we can definitely dismiss that one)

http://blogs.ft.com/the-exchange/2015/08/19/12621/

Well that is it, they are looking to everyone to ease or eradicate the burden, due to them financing the resolve of the latest recession.. but wasnt that financial resolve/debt incurred with huge interest rates?

China is fast becoming a scarey power of finance, almost the controller. Them suffering can only be good for western growth.

You've got to hand it to the chinese. they have managed to finance a debt to help keep either own country in business.. their economy relies hugely on the spending of other, if others arent spending China hasn't a resolve.

Of course only time will tell if it was a wise decision for Pattaya’s authorities to put all their eggs in one basket and rely on continued patronage from Chinese tourists in large numbers. But it’s impossible to ignore the increasing warnings from so many which lately seem to be coming out on a daily basis.

Richard Duncan was former Global Head of Investment Strategy at ABN AMRO Asset Management and he explains why China’s hard landing has already begun

he says “China’s economy resembles a spinning top that is running out of momentum. It is wobbling and gyrating erratically,”

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/1952783/how-credit-fuelled-chinas-incredible-boom

One must understand that its only been a few years ago since the Chinese people were allowed to travel beyond there borders, they as many have several members of that population which are interested in travel and Thailand is cheap destination. So you will see for the next 10 to 20 years a multitude of Chinese tourists in Thailand, in far larger number then we saw the Indians or Russians.Ans to correct another point Pattaya is not pursuing anyone they don't do that ..if any one does its the Thailand Tourism Authority.

And anther error continually stated in this and other forums is the Chinese don't open money, a complete falsehood, the eat and rent hotel rooms like the rest of us. No you won't see them in your pubs, but they drink as much as the rest of us do.

So if you own a bar or restaurant and your feeling the low season blues get used to it and figure a way to entice customers that live here and stop complaining about the change of times.

[Stevemercer]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

[JESSVANPELT]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

In part you are correct, The Chinese are a shy culture, so they do travel in arranged tours for the most part. The tour groups do have a tendency to go where there customers can communicate, so yes that would be a venue where people speak There Language, but if you look deeper you will find that it is in fact a mix of Thai, Chinese/Thai, Indian and Korean establishments which they cater to for the most part. And as for the money going back to China, purely your own thought, no basis for it to leave the country as more then 10 % of the population is chinese here now.

Edited June 2, 2016 by JESSVANPELT

[Scotwight]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

That is just plain silly. The deal in China is to get money out (more than $50 grand leaving is not legal). The Chinese bring money out of China and build hotels in Pattaya in case you wondered who finances all of that new hotel construction in Pattaya - the building boom is easy to see.

[NanLaew]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

In part you are correct, The Chinese are a shy culture, so they do travel in arranged tours for the most part. The tour groups do have a tendency to go where there customers can communicate, so yes that would be a venue where people speak There Language, but if you look deeper you will find that it is in fact a mix of Thai, Chinese/Thai, Indian and Korean establishments which they cater to for the most part. And as for the money going back to China, purely your own thought, no basis for it to leave the country as more then 10 % of the population is chinese here now.

A shy culture? What does that mean? I guess you don't subscribe to the notion that the Han are intent on building their empire, seeking global dominance in a truly unholy alliance of capitalism and fascism.

Don't kid yourself that Thai-Chinese wealth manifests itself in the vaults of Bangkok either. It never has and never will.

[NanLaew]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

That is just plain silly. The deal in China is to get money out (more than $50 grand leaving is not legal). The Chinese bring money out of China and build hotels in Pattaya in case you wondered who finances all of that new hotel construction in Pattaya - the building boom is easy to see.

So all these bus loads of Chinese tourists are just 'mules'? Given a wedge of Chinese cash by their government and told, "Go forth and spend it all"? Really?

I thought it was Israeli money that propped up the bulk of the burgeoning Pattaya high rise 'investment' scam?

[Scotwight]

Yes, but the key difference is that Chinese tour groups in Thailand use travel agencies, hotels, restaurants, buses, gift shops, entertainment venues and girt shops etc. owned by Chinese business interests with most of the money repatriated back to China. Thai people work for them at the minimum wage. At the moment, most Chinese tourists travel in group tours and they are taken to Chinese-owned businesses. Maybe in 3 - 5 years Chinese tourists will start to travel independently and there will be more benefits and spin-offs to Thai and other foreign businesses. At the moment, I think you would be wasting your time trying to set up a business to attract the Chinese tourist.

That is just plain silly. The deal in China is to get money out (more than $50 grand leaving is not legal). The Chinese bring money out of China and build hotels in Pattaya in case you wondered who finances all of that new hotel construction in Pattaya - the building boom is easy to see.

So all these bus loads of Chinese tourists are just 'mules'? Given a wedge of Chinese cash by their government and told, "Go forth and spend it all"? Really?

I thought it was Israeli money that propped up the bulk of the burgeoning Pattaya high rise 'investment' scam?

I believe you will find that all of the gold shops in Thailand are Chinese owned and act as banks. Yes I think you may be correct - a lot of the Chinese tourists are mules for money. It is not the Chinese government that wants to get the money out - the opposite the Chinese government wants to keep the money in China. It's the black and grey market businesses who don't want to put the money in Chinese banks or real estate or stocks. We are talking a big chunk of money in grey or black areas - as much as half of the Chinese GNP.

[balo]

Lets face it, 80% of foreign owned businesses will not last long, only the good ones will survive , with social media you need to be on top to get customers and to avoid bad reviews.

[Rimmer]

Please stay on topic which is about Foreign owned business closings ... worse than ever? Not about Chinese in Pattaya

A post discussing Chinese has now been removed

[Berty100]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

[onemorechang]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

That.s ok mate i hear you.

Some on Thai visa need to take the beer goggles off

Edited June 2, 2016 by onemorechang

[Scotwight]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

That.s ok mate i hear you.

Some on Thai visa need to take the beer goggles off

The high season has ended. Happens every year. Those that could not make it in the high season realize they won't make it in the low season and go home.

[jadee]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

I agree, I think it's far worse than before but then so is the entire global economy so why should Pattaya be any different? There's an interesting piece in the Bangkok Post today about occupancy rates in Rayong hotels falling as oil sector woes continue. There is bound to be a knock-on effect throughout the Thai economy.

[Bangkokazy]

There is a new group of tourists coming to Thailand them do not go to bars do not look for girls.

[Berty100]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

That.s ok mate i hear you.

Some on Thai visa need to take the beer goggles off

The high season has ended. Happens every year. Those that could not make it in the high season realize they won't make it in the low season and go home.

No bars on North Pattaya road, mate. Only long established businesses.

[Berty100]

For those who claim that businesses aren't closing down, I had to be on North Pattaya road today, and what I saw was scary.

On the stretch from Makro to the section with 3rd road, about 70% of the businesses have a sign for rent or for sale on the front. Many of them were Indian taylors I recall.

Most of them seem to use the same agent as I could notice from the phone number.

I agree, I think it's far worse than before but then so is the entire global economy so why should Pattaya be any different? There's an interesting piece in the Bangkok Post today about occupancy rates in Rayong hotels falling as oil sector woes continue. There is bound to be a knock-on effect throughout the Thai economy.

There is bound to be a knock-on effect throughout the Thai economy.

But it may take some time to kick in, as Thailand is at least 50 years behind on the rest of the world.