Koh Tao murders appeal reveals shocking new evidence suggesting unfair trial and wrongful conviction

[AleG]

I am open minded to either side of the argument. Still waiting to be convinced either way. This article is very one sided, the case has been obviously poorly handles. Didn’t they find the boys semen inside Hanna. How did it get there?

no, they didn't. There has been no evidence presented that the 2 convicted were near either victim or that they touched the murder weapon.

I too want to be open minded about this, but from everything I have heard it stinks of a cover up to me. Or at the very least there is no real evidence that they did it and they were used for a quick conviction.

if what i have read is to be believed then they should never have been convicted in the first place.

you have to ask the question, if all of the evidence the police claim to have (but was never presented in court which in itself is pretty unbelievable) why would they not present it? If it is the foundation of their case surely it would have been presented on a silver platter for the defence to see?

Anway, I dont think justice has been done, i hope this unravels and the real killers are found,, Guess we will see.

"everything I have heard it stinks of a cover up"

"if what i have read is to be believed"

Why should those things be believed? As I pointed before this article claims that the UK autopsy determined that there was no evidence of rape, while in reality the UK coroner determined the victim was sexually assaulted, the article claim is false any way you want to slice it. In view of such blatant dishonesty; why should anything coming from the people defending those Burmese men be taken at face value? There's only assertions from the defense (and their devotees) that there's no evidence, or that it's not up to whatever arbitrary standard they wish to apply, everything is their say so, and as I just showed their say so seems rather unconcerned over whether it is factually true or not.

Why are some people so willing to accept and excuse people that are so mendacious about issues they claim to care so much about?

Last time I asked a similar question over another issue all I got were crickets: they claimed they were beaten nearly to death to get a confession, yet neither photos, their beheaviour or the way they moved on video or medical examinations showed any sign of such thing the day after the supposed torture; why believe the unsubstantiated assertions from people with a very direct self interest in peddling a certain narrative over actual verifiable evidence?

I think it's because now facts are irrelevant, the people that are campaigning assiduously on behalf of those men (such as the author of the article) have pinned their moral identity on that idea and that is that. Believing to be in possession of the truth then it's OK to stretch or fabricate more of it for the cause, and then just repeat it, and repeat it and repeat it until people after hearing "Fire fire fire!" for so long begin to think that, well, can't see any fire but at least there may be some smoke somewhere.

[atyclb]

Thailand, third world and always will be. No matter how many shopping malls they build!

not even up to third world standards as the former president of chad was just convicted in a senegal court to life imprisonment for crimes against humanity as well as rape.

[T_Dog]

Well written article and good to see this travesty stay in the news. It is very unfair that two innocent men are still behind bars while the real perps get away with murder.

[Bkk Brian]

The un edited version directly from the lawyer is this: https://www.facebook.com/thaijustice/posts/1005184919530320

A 198 page appeal on behalf of the accused Burmese defendants in the Koh Tao murder trial has been filed with the Region 8 Court of Appeals on Koh Samui, Thailand. I regret that the pro bono defense team does not have the $5,500 budget necessary to pay for a proper translation into English.

This groundbreaking case is the first in the history of the Thai justice system where police forensic evidence was challenged by the defense and forced to be independently retested. As we feel it is vitally important the content of this public document be made known to the world at large, I have summarized and translated several of the strongest points of the defense’s arguments into English, and mention a few points of concern not addressed in the appeal as well.

Police claimed DNA collected from the scene was sent to Singapore for testing and determined the suspects were Asian. Thai police experts later stated this race determination was only revealed by testing at Prince of Songkla University hospital lab twenty days after the suspects were arrested. It was later revealed DNA samples were never sent to Singapore. Regardless, this set the stage for racial profiling of potential suspects.

<snip>

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Aj Mick]

I am open minded to either side of the argument. Still waiting to be convinced either way. This article is very one sided, the case has been obviously poorly handles. Didn’t they find the boys semen inside Hanna. How did it get there?

no, they didn't. There has been no evidence presented that the 2 convicted were near either victim or that they touched the murder weapon.

I too want to be open minded about this, but from everything I have heard it stinks of a cover up to me. Or at the very least there is no real evidence that they did it and they were used for a quick conviction.

if what i have read is to be believed then they should never have been convicted in the first place.

you have to ask the question, if all of the evidence the police claim to have (but was never presented in court which in itself is pretty unbelievable) why would they not present it? If it is the foundation of their case surely it would have been presented on a silver platter for the defence to see?

Anway, I dont think justice has been done, i hope this unravels and the real killers are found,, Guess we will see.

"everything I have heard it stinks of a cover up"

"if what i have read is to be believed"

Why should those things be believed? As I pointed before this article claims that the UK autopsy determined that there was no evidence of rape, while in reality the UK coroner determined the victim was sexually assaulted, the article claim is false any way you want to slice it. In view of such blatant dishonesty; why should anything coming from the people defending those Burmese men be taken at face value? There's only assertions from the defense (and their devotees) that there's no evidence, or that it's not up to whatever arbitrary standard they wish to apply, everything is their say so, and as I just showed their say so seems rather unconcerned over whether it is factually true or not.

Why are some people so willing to accept and excuse people that are so mendacious about issues they claim to care so much about?

Last time I asked a similar question over another issue all I got were crickets: they claimed they were beaten nearly to death to get a confession, yet neither photos, their beheaviour or the way they moved on video or medical examinations showed any sign of such thing the day after the supposed torture; why believe the unsubstantiated assertions from people with a very direct self interest in peddling a certain narrative over actual verifiable evidence?

I think it's because now facts are irrelevant, the people that are campaigning assiduously on behalf of those men (such as the author of the article) have pinned their moral identity on that idea and that is that. Believing to be in possession of the truth then it's OK to stretch or fabricate more of it for the cause, and then just repeat it, and repeat it and repeat it until people after hearing "Fire fire fire!" for so long begin to think that, well, can't see any fire but at least there may be some smoke somewhere.

Why believe the unsubstantiated assertions of people who are not prepared to reveal their probable very direct self interest in peddling a certain shoddy narrative, complete with unverifiable, lost or blatantly ignored evidence.

More likely that facts have long since been irrelevant to those few (such as the author of the post above) that are campaigning on behalf of men whose moral identity is that they can rape and kill with impunity. Despite knowing the ugly truth they think that is OK to deny and fabricate to protect their own vested interests, and then just repeat and repeat it and repeat it in the hope that the truth is hidden in a smokescreen of verbiage, at least until the statue of limitations runs out.

[JLCrab]

So, once again, this becomes not a matter of who did or did not commit these crimes but, as in the opinion of the Defense in the summary linked above, that any person who would sustain the opinion of the lower Samui Court would not be acting as a reasonable person in deciding that the criteria of 'reasonable doubt' has been met.

[iReason]

Let's review some key point's of the article, shall we?

"The handling and lack of chain of custody of the DNA samples was widely criticized, the missing wine bottle and cigarette butts as well as the female victims clothes,

all said to have carried vital DNA evidence, were missing entirely from the trial."

"And of course without a single piece of CCTV footage, or a single witness to the actual crime,

it is hard to believe that any court could find the two men guilty without reasonable doubt and sentence them to death."

"There was absolutely no forensic evidence presented by the prosecution connecting the mobile phone to the accused."

"The police claimed a 100% DNA match with the accused from samples taken from the victim’s body:

this is scientifically impossible in any forensic lab anywhere in the world."

"The DNA on the murder weapon matched neither of the accused. The police originally claimed the murder weapon had no DNA evidence."

[JLCrab]

Just to note that, at least in Thailand, an appeal is not a re-trial.

[Basil B]

So, once again, this becomes not a matter of who did or did not commit these crimes but, as in the opinion of the Defense in the summary linked above, that any person who would sustain the opinion of the lower Samui Court would not be acting as a reasonable person in deciding that the criteria of 'reasonable doubt' has been met.

'reasonable doubt'

Beyond reasonable doubt...

​Their were many of us who were shocked to even think that much of the evidence had already been to proved to be unreliable and fabricated had been put as and excepted by the court, the new revelations only strengthen the case that much of the evidence is totally unreliable.

To put it back to the same judges to reconsider, we know that to say sorry they were wrong would be losing face.

[JLCrab]

What 'we' know isn't material. One must determine what is reasonable doubt before one can determine what is beyond it. Whether the Appeals Court judges are the same judges as the Samui Court or not, some seem to have already decided that they will act in a manner that would be considered as not reasonable even though the judges themselves might consider their actions to be reasonable.

[oldsailor35]

Old news this as the UK media pointed this out like two months ago ...

And so what ! does that make it any more honest on the part of the RTP and the courtroom monkey !

[BigC]

Some of you are a razor's edge away from long suspensions. Tired of having to delete every third post because you guys can't grow up and stop attacking each other over a story in which nothing any of you say will make a difference. No more benefit of the doubt for anyone. That includes those misusing the report button to fight their battles.

Wow this is such a sensitive issue

I believe they are guilty but I don't have people that think they are innocent that's just my opinion

Unless people attack me for me believing they are guilty then i don't really care too much about this story as its old

[oldsailor35]

New evidence??? what new evidence? It's hardly breaking news either

Whether these scars were caused by a Thai autopsy or not is irrelevant. It does not prove she was not sexually assaulted and it certainly has nothing to do with the blows that killed the poor girl.

I googled the writers name and it led me straight to an article published by Andrew Drummond a week ago, Drummond had an arrest warrant put out on him by the Thai Supreme Court, he is a known habitual liar and anything he writes about Thailand can not be believed. IMO

If this had any relevance it would have been front page news when the story broke.

I just hope that Andrew Drummond reads this post of yours and treats both you and it accordingly. I am damned sure i would if i was Andrew Drummond.

[oldsailor35]

Nice propaganda piece by Suzanna Buchanan (their self appointed adoptive mother ) maybe thai visa could post an article by Nomsods mum saying what a nice boy he is

Sue who is known and loved by many ex-pats, is an extremely kind, caring lady, so lets have respect where it is earned.

[oldsailor35]

I am open minded to either side of the argument. Still waiting to be convinced either way. This article is very one sided, the case has been obviously poorly handles. Didn’t they find the boys semen inside Hanna. How did it get there?

No they did not. where did you get that gem from.

[DaveinAsia]

Excellent summation of just some of the foul ups (unintentional and more shockingly intentional) that any rational person who followed the investigation / trial would quite clearly have been able to see.

Sadly this isn't going to save them. Nothing will make this court lose face now unless CCTV footage of the actual murder taking place, or footage from the B2's home showing them in their beds emerges. So sick, sad, and unjust. Those who (unfathomably) still believe they are guilty need to take a long, hard look at themselves. A true injustice at play here

The only thing that can save them is a royal pardon or a very strong appeal from abroad, for example the US or UK......or as I said earlier a sponsored break out. Anyone up for it? Shouldn't be too difficult breaking them out of a so-called high security third world country prison or am I only dreaming now?

It is sickening how these guys were set up by that organized scum. To see their straight faces as they lie so bluntly is the true nature of the authorities in the LOS, all the while hiding behind their necklace with 5 or 6 Buddha's on it. Anything to protect their steady supply of dirty rotten money pouring in. So sorry for the victims and the B2. Let's hope for a miracle

[TheLobster]

I am open minded to either side of the argument. Still waiting to be convinced either way. This article is very one sided, the case has been obviously poorly handles. Didn’t they find the boys semen inside Hanna. How did it get there?

did you miss this ?

The DNA tests presented by the prosecution were not provided with the necessary supportive documents showing multiple procedures required to meet ISO 17025 standards required in DNA testing. Including the chain of custody, method of testing, graph generation and analysis report.

There is significant doubt as to the source and labeling of the DNA samples taken without worrying whether they were tested by a laboratory certified to carry out DNA tests under their ISO 17025 scope: 'DNA files presented had the accused names on them, rather than a proper file reference number. This is not possible without pre-knowledge of whose DNA the sample being tested belonged to.'

Also there is a big difference between a Coroner's report and an Autopsy report for all those quoting the Coroner's report ....

[Baerboxer]

although complimenting the Brits (and UK in general) is difficult for me to do...i have to say that it seems that they are trying their best to see that these two young lads are getting proper legal council. i just hope they don't fizzle out....or something unseemly doesn't happen to those 2 boys while they wait for justice.

so, hats off to the UK government for stepping-up for these 2 boys. i wish you would do more of it.

You should seek professional help for your bitter racist issues before it warps your judgement and embitters you further.

Quite frankly nothing anybody here, or any foreign government or media does or says seems to really make much difference. The only concerns will be to keep face, ensure minimum negative effect on tourism and support the system.

Hope the defense team are up for a robust fight because they'll need to be.

[Linden]

Frightening wrong place wrong time. It could happen to any of us in Thailand anytime..being innocent is never enough ..if they say your guilty you must be..Thailogic..

[Mooner]

Biggest elephant in the room. The accused DNA is not on the murder weapon but the victims are(not blood)

[JLCrab]

Biggest elephant in the room. The accused DNA is not on the murder weapon but the victims are(not blood)

Maybe. But the real big elephant may be just how the Prosecution intends to reply to to the recently submitted appeal:

Today’s appeal disagrees with this ruling and requests Region 8 Appeals Court to reconsider and dismiss all charges against the accused. Once the Prosecution has responded to the defense appeal, Region 8 Appeal Court shall consider the case, likely within 2017, and send a judgement back to Koh Samui Court to deliver.

http://www.samuitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-case-legal-defense-team-today-submit-200-page-death-sentence-conviction-appeal-to-koh-samui-court/

[DiscoDan]

You would of thought of these revelations were so great Andy Hall would be shouting it from the rooftops but not a word.

There is no mention of rape in original autopsy only sexual assault and a small abrasion was found no mention of an incision.

When autopsy are done some parts of the body have to be cut this could be to drain fluids or to check for internal bruising etc

There was no link to incision and the claim she was raped.

This is just another misleading headline. If I am wrong it will be part of the appeal but I doubt it.

[Khun Han]

Every honest person who has followed this debacle closely knows who the real killers are and that Zaw Win and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats. All the internet obfuscation/perception management in the world won't change that.

[JLCrab]

Every honest person who has followed this debacle closely knows who the real killers are and that Zaw Win and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats. All the internet obfuscation/perception management in the world won't change that.

It also seems that all the honest persons are not troubled by the notion that not one person -- either a local Thai, a local farang, a local Burmese worker, or a tourist from UK or elsewhere who was visiting Koh Tao the night in question -- has ever come forward publicly to say the person, who all the honest persons know is actually responsible for these crimes, was ever on the island the night in question.

[Rayk]

Easily, at least 20 very valid reasons why these 2 poor lads should never have been found guilty.

Their case should be overturned now and thrown out and they should be immediately set free.

Thailand, the hub of justice my ass.

[canuckamuck]

Every honest person who has followed this debacle closely knows who the real killers are and that Zaw Win and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats. All the internet obfuscation/perception management in the world won't change that.

It also seems that all the honest persons are not troubled by the notion that not one person -- either a local Thai, a local farang, a local Burmese worker, or a tourist from UK or elsewhere who was visiting Koh Tao the night in question -- has ever come forward publicly to say the person, who all the honest persons know is actually responsible for these crimes, was ever on the island the night in question.

Not many people are eager to rat out a guy who seems to have special protection from the RTP and above.

A guy who can get away with murder, literally.

[Skeptic7]

Only shocking thing about it is that they are calling old evidence "new evidence". Don't think anyone here on TV is shocked or even mildly surprised.

[JLCrab]

Every honest person who has followed this debacle closely knows who the real killers are and that Zaw Win and Wei Phyo are innocent scapegoats. All the internet obfuscation/perception management in the world won't change that.

It also seems that all the honest persons are not troubled by the notion that not one person -- either a local Thai, a local farang, a local Burmese worker, or a tourist from UK or elsewhere who was visiting Koh Tao the night in question -- has ever come forward publicly to say the person, who all the honest persons know is actually responsible for these crimes, was ever on the island the night in question.

Not many people are eager to rat out a guy who seems to have special protection from the RTP and above.

A guy who can get away with murder, literally.

So much for every honest person.

[cdnvic]

Removed one post extremely derogatory to Thais.

[stephenterry]

Biggest elephant in the room. The accused DNA is not on the murder weapon but the victims are(not blood)

Maybe. But the real big elephant may be just how the Prosecution intends to reply to to the recently submitted appeal:

Today’s appeal disagrees with this ruling and requests Region 8 Appeals Court to reconsider and dismiss all charges against the accused. Once the Prosecution has responded to the defense appeal, Region 8 Appeal Court shall consider the case, likely within 2017, and send a judgement back to Koh Samui Court to deliver.

http://www.samuitimes.com/koh-tao-murder-case-legal-defense-team-today-submit-200-page-death-sentence-conviction-appeal-to-koh-samui-court/

Well, I'll have three guesses:-

i) -ii)) they'll ignore it, or merely state that their case has already been proven by the Samui court.

iii) they'll spend the next year requesting the Appeals court to extend the submission deadline (same tactic as the defence) but in their case they'll revert back to i) & ii) above.

As to strengthening their case, that's physically impossible, because they never had any verifiable evidence that was substantiated and validated to support their case, as it never existed, was all used up, was destroyed, or never produced in court. Also, I doubt there's any cop alive that would willingly take on more work.