Turkey warns Germany over vote on Armenian mass killings

[webfact]

Turkey warns Germany over vote on Armenian mass killings



ANKARA: -- Turkey has warned Germany against voting for a parliamentary resolution recognising the mass killings of Armenians as a genocide.

According to Turkish sources, President Erdogan spoke with Chancellor Merkel over the phone to express his concern over the draft law. He later told reporters that some people were trying to ‘deceive’ Germany about the events which took place over a century ago, saying, “If Germany takes the bait, of course this will damage the future of our bilateral diplomatic, economic, commercial, political and military relations – since we are two countries in NATO. I believe that all of this will be thought about (prior to the vote).”

The Bundestag is expected to back the planned resolution to call the killings of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman forces a genocide.

But there are fears that it could stir tensions with the sizeable Turkish community living in Germany.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-06-01

[nealthewheel]

Once again Frau Merkel being dictated to by a Muslim - this one with some clout! She is the worse thing to happen to Europe for over a half a century and the other person was German too! (well Austrian) - I lived in Munich for nearly 6 years before the wall came down and I can tell you that the Germans feared the Russians more than you can imagine - as if the Russians still had unfinished business with Das Volk - and now because of this relic of a bygone age (she is a Communist still), she wishes to impose the new Germanic values on Europe - "Hug a Muslim". Just be thankful that countries like Poland, Hungary and the former Yugoslavia are standing strong. We don't need Islam in Europe, we don't need Islamic uneducated North African Muslims either, when are people going to wake up and realise that Islam has an agenda that the liberal/progressive elite are pandering to. There isn't enough shame to shower them with to appease all the chaos and calamity they have caused. Muslims use human shields in war - what do you think 2.5 million new Muslims are doing in Europe? The following is an exert from a published intelligence report about the Islamic threat in Europe (about 3 months ago):

Question 5: What is ISIS trying to achieve?

European intelligence services are convinced that ISIS is planning further terror attacks on the continent. It wants revenge for airstrikes on the "caliphate" amid growing pressure on the territory it has carved out in Iraq and Syria. It wants to spark a religious war between Muslims and Christians in Europe. And it knows that it can infiltrate operatives into Europe using false documents amid the migrant influx.

As the Paris attacks showed, ISIS is intent on attacking "soft" targets rather than military or government facilities. Hakim encouraged such attacks with the message: "Do not look for specific targets. Kill anybody."

Suck it up liberals when you hug your next Muslim and don't forget to ask them if they believe in their (un)holy book? Therein lies the danger.

[steve654]

I still do not understand what Merkel was thinking letting so many people of any nationally in with open arms. This is something that should have been put to a referendum so that it could be discussed on many levels as every single citizen should have had a say in this. If she was only thinking with a big heart and nothing else, then she may possibly have single handedly created one of the worst disaster scenario's this region has ever faced. Everybody has compassion, we are not robots, but seriously, didn't she at least think about how this could and most probably will destabilize the whole continent?

I have many close relatives over there and they all seem to be worried more than just a little where this all will be heading.

Edited June 1, 2016 by steve654

[wabothai]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

[nealthewheel]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

[Grouse]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

[Rancid]

Wow, Germany really has become Turkey's b*tch, what is going on over there? How do you Germans feel about it?

[hansnl]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

You are quite right.

The Islamic vitriol is worrying indeed.

On another note, have a nice lunch.

And remember, muslims may lie to you about anything if you are no muslim.

[Baerboxer]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

So you consider reporting the deliberate planned ethnic cleansing by the murder of 1.5 million (estimates vary so pick your own preferred figure) innocent Armenian civilians, men, women, children, all ages vitriol?

Go to YouTube and see some of the documentaries on this. Do some serious research. And, just like the Japanese with their appalling atrocities committed in China, especially, Nangking prior to WW11 and carried on throughout WW11, Turkey tries to ignore, deny, cover up it's criminal past.

Modern Turks cannot be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors, But their leaders today have a responsibility to recognize the past and apologize for it. Not cover it up at any cost, even by making threats to any who dare recognize the reality they deny.

One of the pictures I saw is of a Turkish official holding a piece of bread high to deliberately tease some starving Armenian women and children. A cruel game and no, he didn't feed them any, just amused himself. Deliberate mass starvation through denial of food and water, exposure to extreme elements and denial of any medical or sanitary facilities.

Enjoy your lunch.

[Baerboxer]

Wow, Germany really has become Turkey's b*tch, what is going on over there? How do you Germans feel about it?

It's Merkel whose Erdogan's bitch. And she got herself into that position all by herself.

German Imperial troops, who were allied Axis powers with Ottoman Turkey in WW1 witnessed these events as observers. The German government will have access to their secret reports. I doubt Merkel and her cronies can pressure the German parliament to vote how Erdogan instructs she must on this occasion.

[sanukjim]

Ah Yes ,Germany how dare you to disagree with Turkey's genocide of The Armenian people ,In memory weren't you guys involved with this sort of thing against The Jews ?

[Grouse]

OK, interesting lunch with highly qualified Turkish Engineer from Ismir. You wouldn't know to look at him with round eyes and pale complexion like any Western European. Muslim, but drinks like a fish!

1) Common complaint amongst Turks is that Western press ignores atrocities they suffer. Istanbul v Paris for example

2) Erdogan suggested safe zones along North Syria and North Iraq right at the start. Supported by Putin, it was not supported by the West. If we had done this there would be no Syrian refugee problem

3) Big issue with Eastern Anatolia is the mineral rights. The British got the Turks to sign an agreement forbidding mineral extraction including oil for 100 years (Lausanne in 1923 I think). No way Turkey will give up land on the second richest oil fields in the world to the Kurds!

4) USA wants a strategic corridor from N Iraq to the Mediterranean. Russia wants to maintain same. KGB pointing finger at ISIS for aviation disasters in Russia and Egypt air to justify continued presence

5) And now, the Armenians. It seems that in 1915, the Turks were at least holding back the Russians in NE Anatolia. At that time, the Ottomans conscripted Turks but not Armenians who were pretty well integrated. So young Armenian males were left behind. Russia, on the back foot, encouraged an Armenian uprising with the promise of land. Half the Turkish army left the front and went home to defend against the Armenians. Turkey lost the war. Turks then drove out the Armenians. It is true they were not fed or watered. However there is plenty of evidence of Armenian massacre of Turks but not Turkish massacre of Armenians. Erdogan offered independent discussions in Switzerland with both sides. It was declined.

6) Most Turks resent Erdogan's move toward a Muslim state. Turkey has historically welcomed all faiths including Jews, Orthodox Christians and Catholics

Don't shoot the messenger! Just reporting what I learned as promised!

Edited June 1, 2016 by Grouse

[Grouse]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

So you consider reporting the deliberate planned ethnic cleansing by the murder of 1.5 million (estimates vary so pick your own preferred figure) innocent Armenian civilians, men, women, children, all ages vitriol?

Go to YouTube and see some of the documentaries on this. Do some serious research. And, just like the Japanese with their appalling atrocities committed in China, especially, Nangking prior to WW11 and carried on throughout WW11, Turkey tries to ignore, deny, cover up it's criminal past.

Modern Turks cannot be held responsible for the actions of their ancestors, But their leaders today have a responsibility to recognize the past and apologize for it. Not cover it up at any cost, even by making threats to any who dare recognize the reality they deny.

One of the pictures I saw is of a Turkish official holding a piece of bread high to deliberately tease some starving Armenian women and children. A cruel game and no, he didn't feed them any, just amused himself. Deliberate mass starvation through denial of food and water, exposure to extreme elements and denial of any medical or sanitary facilities.

Enjoy your lunch.

Many grim thing happened in the past. BUT the sins of the fathers shall not be visited upon the sons. ( not bad for an aetheist eh! ). It would be good to know the truth and I intend to read up on both sides of this.

As you may know, I am anti Muslim.

But, I am not going to excommunicate people from all countries that have done dreadful things! It would be pretty lonely I suspect.

Again, no need for such vitriol. It's just not nice ?

Edited June 1, 2016 by Grouse

[cooked]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

That's the way it is these days. Telling the truth means you are an extremist. Or a bigot, a fascist or an Islamophobe.

[wabothai]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

That's the way it is these days. Telling the truth means you are an extremist. Or a bigot, a fascist or an Islamophobe.

The biggest clash will be between left and right. PC versus realists.

[nealthewheel]

OK, interesting lunch with highly qualified Turkish Engineer from Ismir. You wouldn't know to look at him with round eyes and pale complexion like any Western European. Muslim, but drinks like a fish!

1) Common complaint amongst Turks is that Western press ignores atrocities they suffer. Istanbul v Paris for example

2) Erdogan suggested safe zones along North Syria and North Iraq right at the start. Supported by Putin, it was not supported by the West. If we had done this there would be no Syrian refugee problem

3) Big issue with Eastern Anatolia is the mineral rights. The British got the Turks to sign an agreement forbidding mineral extraction including oil for 100 years (Lausanne in 1923 I think). No way Turkey will give up land on the second richest oil fields in the world to the Kurds!

4) USA wants a strategic corridor from N Iraq to the Mediterranean. Russia wants to maintain same. KGB pointing finger at ISIS for aviation disasters in Russia and Egypt air to justify continued presence

5) And now, the Armenians. It seems that in 1915, the Turks were at least holding back the Russians in NE Anatolia. At that time, the Ottomans conscripted Turks but not Armenians who were pretty well integrated. So young Armenian males were left behind. Russia, on the back foot, encouraged an Armenian uprising with the promise of land. Half the Turkish army left the front and went home to defend against the Armenians. Turkey lost the war. Turks then drove out the Armenians. It is true they were not fed or watered. However there is plenty of evidence of Armenian massacre of Turks but not Turkish massacre of Armenians. Erdogan offered independent discussions in Switzerland with both sides. It was declined.

6) Most Turks resent Erdogan's move toward a Muslim state. Turkey has historically welcomed all faiths including Jews, Orthodox Christians and Catholics

Don't shoot the messenger! Just reporting what I learned as promised!

You certainly had an interesting lunch - kudos to you. As one says there are 2 sides to the story but I am afraid the story of Islam has been the same for 1400 years. Moderate Muslims are probably just as concerned about the Fundamentalists as we are in the West and ironically we will probably all share the same fate. Muslim moderates will be made to adhere to Sharia or be considered an apostate therefore face death so they have 3 choices - change their attitude, run like hell if they still can or die. But I do not believe for one minute that the "migrants" are running for their lives rather doing the bidding of their Imams and repopulating Europe with this evil ideology. Islamic memories go back a long way - while I was sitting in a cha house in Antakaya (what used to be Antioch) on the way to the Syrian border in '76 the murmurings in the cha house turned towards me and one young Turkish guy spoke for the older cigarette puffing elders - "whether I believed that the Crusades would ever happen again?" It turned out that in this part of Turkey they still spoke of the Crusades as if it were yesterday. It turned out after a little conversation in English and German (many Turks still speak German) that the mosques still go on about Crusaders and how wicked we all are. We on the other hand have forgotten our history but maybe now is a time to rejuvenate some of Middle Ages history and remind ourselves how this all began. Islam views the jihad with a different light and that jihad started in 632 AD and is still going on. The Imams have a special hatred of the Franks.

[Trouble]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

It may be vitriol to you but what nealthewheel states is the truth. Having just finish touring Armenia and visiting the museum and viewing actual pictures, it is difficult to deny what happened. It is about time Turkey admitted the deeds of the Ottomans. What's the problem it was 100 years ago and it IS part of the past, however unpleasant it may be. What should aggravate everyone is Erdogan threatening Merkel over the matter of a vote on the subject. Erdogan is leading Turkey down the wrong path and everyone knows it. It will be a matter of time before religious issues start threatening the stability of Turkey. I am sure their are many Turks who are deeply worried about the direction of Erdogan and probably some Turks who are willing to face their history.

[arjunadawn]

Erdogan has always seen himself as a caliph in waiting. His center stage public rise recently is the direct consequence of the West decidedly elevating his statue as they stood up DAESH as a proxy and wielded Islam as a blunt weapon against itself and others. Turkey worked the levers with Ottoman precision and finesse. Now Turkey wields Islam as a blunt weapon against the West.

Each day, each act of dhimmitude, only reinforces the perception that the West is subordinate, without compass, with out the previous backbone so evident in the Polish at Vienna. There is a reason Vienna was for ages the Golden Apple, the prize. It was the gateway to conquer Europe. Merkel is Islam's Golden Apple.

The West will now have its own 'rotten house destroyed from within', as civilization jihad demands.

[ilostmypassword]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Turkey ruled the Baltic states in Europe for centuries. Yet somehow, the people of the region remained overwhelmingly Orthodox Christians. The Mughals ruled the Indian subcontinent for centuries. Yet the overwhelmingly majority of the people remained Hindus. Christian communities thrived in Moslem ruled countries in the Middle East for about 1500 years. When the Christians retook Spain from the Muslims, just about the first thing they did was to kick out all the Muslims and the Jews. You know who took the Jews in? Turkey.

[prestburypark]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Turkey ruled the Baltic states in Europe for centuries. Yet somehow, the people of the region remained overwhelmingly Orthodox Christians. The Mughals ruled the Indian subcontinent for centuries. Yet the overwhelmingly majority of the people remained Hindus. Christian communities thrived in Moslem ruled countries in the Middle East for about 1500 years. When the Christians retook Spain from the Muslims, just about the first thing they did was to kick out all the Muslims and the Jews. You know who took the Jews in? Turkey.

So when did the Ottoman empire rule the Baltic states?

I think you mean the Balkans, Baltic is Poland , Lithuania northern Europe. Balkans is near Turkey.

It was Islam that was ejected from Spain, ergo the Muslims being kicked out, being unwanted, uninvited invaders.

The Armenian genocide, the subject of this thread, would be respectfully treated by modern day Turkey, not by denial, it is a historical fact, but by an attitude similar to the one modern day Germany has towards the holocaust. Erdogan is feeling out the limits he can blackmail the west, hence the Nato references in his comments.

Shameful man, shameful disrespect for the Armenians who died. No change in attitudes a century later, so where is the hope for todays situation?

[ilostmypassword]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Turkey ruled the Baltic states in Europe for centuries. Yet somehow, the people of the region remained overwhelmingly Orthodox Christians. The Mughals ruled the Indian subcontinent for centuries. Yet the overwhelmingly majority of the people remained Hindus. Christian communities thrived in Moslem ruled countries in the Middle East for about 1500 years. When the Christians retook Spain from the Muslims, just about the first thing they did was to kick out all the Muslims and the Jews. You know who took the Jews in? Turkey.

So when did the Ottoman empire rule the Baltic states?

I think you mean the Balkans, Baltic is Poland , Lithuania northern Europe. Balkans is near Turkey.

It was Islam that was ejected from Spain, ergo the Muslims being kicked out, being unwanted, uninvited invaders.

The Armenian genocide, the subject of this thread, would be respectfully treated by modern day Turkey, not by denial, it is a historical fact, but by an attitude similar to the one modern day Germany has towards the holocaust. Erdogan is feeling out the limits he can blackmail the west, hence the Nato references in his comments.

Shameful man, shameful disrespect for the Armenians who died. No change in attitudes a century later, so where is the hope for todays situation?

Yes, you're right. I meant the Balkans. The Muslims lived in Spain for 8 centuries." Unwanted, uninvited invaders?" Really? After 8 centuries, they're still invaders? Inherited guilt, huh? As for the Armenian genocide being the subject of this thread, then why all the comments about the supposed true nature of Islam? That's what I was commenting on.

[prestburypark]

Yeah, Islam had no place in Christian Europe and got its ass kicked out, it still has no place in Europe and can quite happily FRO.

[tomacht8]

I still do not understand what Merkel was thinking letting so many people of any nationally in with open arms. This is something that should have been put to a referendum so that it could be discussed on many levels as every single citizen should have had a say in this. If she was only thinking with a big heart and nothing else, then she may possibly have single handedly created one of the worst disaster scenario's this region has ever faced. Everybody has compassion, we are not robots, but seriously, didn't she at least think about how this could and most probably will destabilize the whole continent?

I have many close relatives over there and they all seem to be worried more than just a little where this all will be heading.

Particularly the Islam become virulent. One has to look at the outcomes and results.

Half the Islamic world is divided into an apocalyptic chaos of violence, terror and madness.

Why europe must import all this problems of non-functioning countries?

[Grouse]

OK, interesting lunch with highly qualified Turkish Engineer from Ismir. You wouldn't know to look at him with round eyes and pale complexion like any Western European. Muslim, but drinks like a fish!

1) Common complaint amongst Turks is that Western press ignores atrocities they suffer. Istanbul v Paris for example

2) Erdogan suggested safe zones along North Syria and North Iraq right at the start. Supported by Putin, it was not supported by the West. If we had done this there would be no Syrian refugee problem

3) Big issue with Eastern Anatolia is the mineral rights. The British got the Turks to sign an agreement forbidding mineral extraction including oil for 100 years (Lausanne in 1923 I think). No way Turkey will give up land on the second richest oil fields in the world to the Kurds!

4) USA wants a strategic corridor from N Iraq to the Mediterranean. Russia wants to maintain same. KGB pointing finger at ISIS for aviation disasters in Russia and Egypt air to justify continued presence

5) And now, the Armenians. It seems that in 1915, the Turks were at least holding back the Russians in NE Anatolia. At that time, the Ottomans conscripted Turks but not Armenians who were pretty well integrated. So young Armenian males were left behind. Russia, on the back foot, encouraged an Armenian uprising with the promise of land. Half the Turkish army left the front and went home to defend against the Armenians. Turkey lost the war. Turks then drove out the Armenians. It is true they were not fed or watered. However there is plenty of evidence of Armenian massacre of Turks but not Turkish massacre of Armenians. Erdogan offered independent discussions in Switzerland with both sides. It was declined.

6) Most Turks resent Erdogan's move toward a Muslim state. Turkey has historically welcomed all faiths including Jews, Orthodox Christians and Catholics

Don't shoot the messenger! Just reporting what I learned as promised!

Been watching documentaries about the Armenians, Turks and First World War. I conclude that it was indeed genocide. No other word for it. The Turks need to understand that, apologise and move on.

[Mosha]

Merkel better be careful not to upset the Turkish leader. He might take it as an insult, and have her in court.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

Yeah, Islam had no place in Christian Europe and got its ass kicked out, it still has no place in Europe and can quite happily FRO.

Well, I guess you can tell that to the Bosnians and the Albanians. It was part of one of the worlds great civlizations. And far more tolerant than Christian Europe was back then. ANd far more advanced. Many advances in science, math, and architecture. It actually reintroduced Christian Europe to science.

Anyway, it was there 8 centuries in Spain.It's been gone for about 5 centuries. Who knows, maybe in 3 centuries we will say it's Christianity that had no business being in Europe. Of course that would be stupid. About as stupid as saying Islam had no place in Europe. About as stupiid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography.

[nealthewheel]

Yeah, Islam had no place in Christian Europe and got its ass kicked out, it still has no place in Europe and can quite happily FRO.

Well, I guess you can tell that to the Bosnians and the Albanians. It was part of one of the worlds great civlizations. And far more tolerant than Christian Europe was back then. ANd far more advanced. Many advances in science, math, and architecture. It actually reintroduced Christian Europe to science.

Anyway, it was there 8 centuries in Spain.It's been gone for about 5 centuries. Who knows, maybe in 3 centuries we will say it's Christianity that had no business being in Europe. Of course that would be stupid. About as stupid as saying Islam had no place in Europe. About as stupiid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography.

Your comment -"About as stupid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography." Then perhaps you could explain why the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (as well as parts of Sudan and Somalia) implements an absolute 100% intolerance to other religions gaining a foot hold on its sovereign geography? Oh, I remember it's Islam and they are THE exception to the rule - sorry. Islam does not recognise international borders as it is a world jihad that has been implemented by ISIS who are only carrying out the foreign policy of the Saud regime. Saudi Arabia is a committed Islamic state to world jihad and its Imams preach it all the time to people. They condone modern slavery in the form of migrant workers doing jobs they will not do for pittance wages and sometime they receive nothing but a hovel and meagre food to sustain them - is this melodramatic, no it is a human tragedy carried out by "superior brothers of Islam" who have their own bigoted attitude to inferior peoples. We are all infidels whether you accept it or not and you can not change the Muslim mindset by negotiations or subservience to their requests hidden as demands! The sooner the mosques are controlled and Sharia law condemned and outlawed the sooner we will take our continent back. Its that serious and the only alternative will be massive blood letting when the "mob" takes control of the streets. I, personally, don't believe British servicemen and women will shoot at their own people - the divide is that horrendous. Then the mosques will be shut for a long time - it is the goal of Islam to make this civil war a reality - read my earlier post. If you wish to live as a second class citizen under Islamic rule you keep trusting them - I for one can never accept their (un)holy book or that evil prophet!

Edited June 2, 2016 by nealthewheel

[GeorgesAbitbol]

All has been carefully planned. Time to put a stick in the spokes. Start with boycotting the EU (brexit), oust Merkel and tell this turkey to shut the f. up.

On a side note: I forgot to mention that the mass murder of 1.5 million Armenians during WWI did actually occur. They were forced marched into the Syrian desert and left to die - literally - no food, no water, no shelter and no medicine - just left to die naturally while Turkish soldiers made sure there were no escapes. There was no need of strong fences because they were that deep into the desert. This is well documented part of the remaining days of the Ottoman Caliphate. There is a British made documentary on the event (Ch 4 if I remember correctly, about 12 years ago) and of all people the German army was present as observers. So, conclusions - coming to a neighbourhood near you - Islam has a long history of this kind of thing, and this is probably the first of the modern era that has been documented in photographs and film. Religion of peace my arse!

Such vitriol! Deeply unpleasant.

Ironically, I am lunching today with a business colleague who happens to be Turkish. I had planned to discuss Erdogan and the drift away from secularism. I will report back. However, you are so extreme you won't be interested.

You are quite right.

The Islamic vitriol is worrying indeed.

On another note, have a nice lunch.

And remember, muslims may lie to you about anything if you are no muslim.

Remember Christian may lie to you about anything if you re not christian

Remember Democrats may lie to you if you re not democrat

Remember Republicans may lie to you if you re not republican

Remember, KKK may lie to you if you re no KKK

Remember, Vegan may lie to you if you re no Vegan

Remember PETA may lie to you if you re no PETA

...

Need more?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Yeah, Islam had no place in Christian Europe and got its ass kicked out, it still has no place in Europe and can quite happily FRO.

Well, I guess you can tell that to the Bosnians and the Albanians. It was part of one of the worlds great civlizations. And far more tolerant than Christian Europe was back then. ANd far more advanced. Many advances in science, math, and architecture. It actually reintroduced Christian Europe to science.

Anyway, it was there 8 centuries in Spain.It's been gone for about 5 centuries. Who knows, maybe in 3 centuries we will say it's Christianity that had no business being in Europe. Of course that would be stupid. About as stupid as saying Islam had no place in Europe. About as stupiid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography.

Your comment -"About as stupid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography." Then perhaps you could explain why the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (as well as parts of Sudan and Somalia) implements an absolute 100% intolerance to other religions gaining a foot hold on its sovereign geography? Oh, I remember it's Islam and they are THE exception to the rule - sorry. Islam does not recognise international borders as it is a world jihad that has been implemented by ISIS who are only carrying out the foreign policy of the Saud regime. Saudi Arabia is a committed Islamic state to world jihad and its Imams preach it all the time to people. They condone modern slavery in the form of migrant workers doing jobs they will not do for pittance wages and sometime they receive nothing but a hovel and meagre food to sustain them - is this melodramatic, no it is a human tragedy carried out by "superior brothers of Islam" who have their own bigoted attitude to inferior peoples. We are all infidels whether you accept it or not and you can not change the Muslim mindset by negotiations or subservience to their requests hidden as demands! The sooner the mosques are controlled and Sharia law condemned and outlawed the sooner we will take our continent back. Its that serious and the only alternative will be massive blood letting when the "mob" takes control of the streets. I, personally, don't believe British servicemen and women will shoot at their own people - the divide is that horrendous. Then the mosques will be shut for a long time - it is the goal of Islam to make this civil war a reality - read my earlier post. If you wish to live as a second class citizen under Islamic rule you keep trusting them - I for one can never accept their (un)holy book or that evil prophet!

What you say Sir, is utterly crap.

Have a look at Jakarta and see who is the mayor in this city bigger than London ? We can see the muslims hate so much the non muslims that in the biggest muslim country in the world they elected a Protestant for mayor

About being a second class citizen in muslim country: don t see the muslims as second class citizen in US? or Europe? or anywhere in the world...

By spouting such stupidities you just help groups like Daesh who fuels on comments like yours

Edited June 2, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[cooked]

Yeah, Islam had no place in Christian Europe and got its ass kicked out, it still has no place in Europe and can quite happily FRO.

Well, I guess you can tell that to the Bosnians and the Albanians. It was part of one of the worlds great civlizations. And far more tolerant than Christian Europe was back then. ANd far more advanced. Many advances in science, math, and architecture. It actually reintroduced Christian Europe to science.

Anyway, it was there 8 centuries in Spain.It's been gone for about 5 centuries. Who knows, maybe in 3 centuries we will say it's Christianity that had no business being in Europe. Of course that would be stupid. About as stupid as saying Islam had no place in Europe. About as stupiid as assigning a religious no-go zone to a piece of geography.

Nearly all that they claim for themselves was 'borrowed' from other societies. The Maths was discovered in India (while they weren't bust killing an estimated 200 million Hindus), and we are supposed to be thankful for all the copying of Greek literature (mainly done by Jews and Christians) in Spain, minus the illustrations according to Islamic law. Try this: http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/09/03/they-came-they-saw-they-plagiarized-1001-so-called-muslim-inventions-virtually-none-of-which-were-actually-invented-by-muslims/