why are thais never ashamed?

[Briggsy]

Many Thais are ashamed.

You have married into a non-achieving family in a scummy community by the sounds of it. No fixing that.

The reason the brother is never ashamed with you is because you mean nothing to him. Would you be ashamed if a complete stranger told you to do something and you didn't do it. No, you wouldn't be ashamed because you wouldn't give a toss what a stranger thinks. That is how the brother thinks of you as do the rest of the hopeless family. You are a source of funds and a sort of free-ish insurance policy which will pay a lump sum upon your death.

[TuskegeeBen]

There is a pre-requisite character trait to possessing a personal sense of shame; a little known phenomenon in Thailand (despite the presence of Buddhism), called the "cultural character" trait of honor.

So, how many LOS "lessons" does your cranial mass need to absorb, before you finally get the Thai message? Huh?

[1FinickyOne]

You gave him the bike, so, it is a gift - what he does with it is up to him - - which does not mean you have to like him for what he does. Now you know not to give him anymore gifts. But your wife should understand why you do not like him and keep you insulated. My wife does a very good job of middling any people who want to come to me for loans... and by middling, I mean keeping them far enough away that there is no direct contact. I guess the important part is that we have the same values.

Not ALL thais are never ashamed... I live with family too and they are mostly really nice people. It is a pretty big extended family and there are a couple I don't like and one drunk who doesn't like me... however, they do not come into my house, though they will visit other family members on the property. But I have seen instances where some local Thai have screwed up and apologized..

There are always going to be family members that try and take advantage or are unpleasant for some reasons. We have a family compound that is open to all relatives and friends, but the sanctity of my home is respected by all. That and they are scared of my dogs...

Good luck and I think you need some help from your wife... it is not a matter of how much she values each individual.

ps - that is always a funny thing that I see here - expats w/families noting who comes first - creating a pecking order. I thought that was all part of a joke, you know, then comes the dog, then the fleas on the dog... what silliness that some seem to get upset over... unless there is the proverbial situation of two people are drowning and there is one rope... I don't see where this will come into play. My wife loves her parents and family - this does not take anything from me - they are nice people. If they need help and she wants to help them, then I am available to help out too... the family seems to pull together anytime anyone needs help... w/o regard for pecking order...

[lostinisaan]

Hence why i would never deal with family..farang or thai in a business sense.

The actual job was so small and easy . 3000 \baht a few beers and some white whisky . The hard bit for me was getting the wire off and lifting the posts back out . The ground was very soft black earth from the lake so easy to dig , but not for her brother . He knew they all fell down but still came to my house without a blush or

care . But this motorbike thing left a bad taste in my mouth as i could have had 10,000 baht myself but gave it to him on my wifes advice then he lost the money playing cards .;

Still looking for the same advice , should i not be upset with and stop him first comign to my house every day secondly stealing food ?

You seem very upset over losing 10,000 baht. If tomorrow you lose 10,001 baht, are you going to go on a murderous rampage through the village?

Seriously, the quantity of money you are referring to is an insignificant amount. Move on with your life. Stopping living it as if it were you are a drama queen.

You do not seem to understand the OP's problem(s) at all. He's never whining about the loss of 10 K, no idea where you've read that.

Calling the OP a "drama queen", instead of giving him some honest advice only shows your ignorance.

If you've got nothing to say, please just be polite and don't post some nonsense. Thank you for your kid consideration.

[A1Str8]

In their culture, everything is based on not losing face. So it is actually the opposite: they are constantly worried about being ashamed and oftentimes they are, they would just never admit it.

[TuskegeeBen]

In their culture, everything is based on not losing face. So it is actually the opposite: they are constantly worried about being ashamed and oftentimes they are, they would just never admit it.

"East is East, West is West, and ne'er shall the twain meet" ~ Rudeyard Kipling, 1889.

The obsession with "not" losing face, is directly linked to the pretentiously hollow trait of pride. Honorable people tend to focus more upon living an honest, dignified life, beyond (shameful) reproach. Hence, no facade to either protect or defend (in the first instance), thus no possibility of a "loss of face" to contend with, ever. Buddhism is fundamentally based upon those very "simple" principles.

My observation is that Thais (menfolk in particular) are an extremely temperamental, and prideful lot, who would more prefer to lose their lives, than to suffer even the slightest blemish to their pretentious public images. And, they will even resort to committing murder, as a means to revamping the slightest bit of tarnish to that projected "public (face) image" of themselves.

Not a very mature mentality, especially for a people who's cultural developmental history predates the Persian, Greek and Roman Empires, eh?

Edited June 4, 2016 by TuskegeeBen

[rgs2001uk]

Many Thais are ashamed.

You have married into a non-achieving family in a scummy community by the sounds of it. No fixing that.

The reason the brother is never ashamed with you is because you mean nothing to him. Would you be ashamed if a complete stranger told you to do something and you didn't do it. No, you wouldn't be ashamed because you wouldn't give a toss what a stranger thinks. That is how the brother thinks of you as do the rest of the hopeless family. You are a source of funds and a sort of free-ish insurance policy which will pay a lump sum upon your death.

The OP should acquaint himself of the Thai phrase, greang jai or noi jai..

It all starts with the selection process.

[rocketboybkk]

Your wife's family seem like real keepers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Agent Sumo]

So many guys bang on about how great Thai women are.

"Slim", "good skin", never (or hardly ever) says no to a shag, deferential etc but, behind the facade, the dark shadows in the back of their minds tell the true story and that is, they're absolutely miserable.

These wives/girlfriends place family, friends and even acquaintances above their husbands in the pecking order.

The only time the poor sods are given the semblance of any respect is when the wife/girlfriend needs to soften them up for a handout or some form of generosity they want extended either to themselves or to family members.

These men know they're mugs but all too often, they're "all in". Kids, house, cars, scooters

Every time they're asked for money, or to allow a family member to camp out in the family home for the week that turns into a month or 3, or to lend a SIL/BIL the scooter that comes back with no gas or with scratches . . . their inner voice says, "She's taking the piss; the whole family's taking the piss" but they tell themselves, "I'm living the dream in Thailand with a hot wife".

Obviously, there are some kickass Thai women who wouldn't dream of carrying on this way but very few of them are married to foreign guys

[chowny77]

Smack the <deleted> in the mouth. If the wife calls the cops, pay the fine and then pack your bags and leave her. She will then notice a marked change of having no money. When she tries to contact you, if you want to stay in the relationship, say him or me. It sounds to me like you are out in the sticks, so keep your wits about you if you do come back. We all know how fair the Thai men fight.

[Blackheart]

Many westerners in Thailand should be ashamed of their own behavior, not just the Thais.

[HappyDazed]

You paid up front for manual labour ..big mistake in any country!

You gave someone a gift but now feel upset that they treated the gift as their own?

You should have kept the bike in your name and let him use it in exchange for the manual labour.

Then you would still have the bike and your 10k...& your BIL would probably respect you all the more for it.

As for a thai going round to his sister to eat rice = stealing?

Just means you don't understand the basic norms of the culture you are living in.

----

Withholding money from your wife to force her to disown her own brother? ..would make you worse than he is.

I would be asking where your shame is if you did this!

Start by changing yourself(see above) which may actually effect change in him....before resorting to violence lol, which will only make things worse.

I pity your missus caught between two idiots.

[sirineou]

So I read the OP to see why you thought Thais are never ashamed, and all you talked was your brother in law.

Is your brother in law all Thais?

Why are you not ashamed to write such title.

If I was to follow your logic I could also make a sweeping generality about all farangs in Thailand.

[samsensam]

most of the issues you have are of your own making. if you took time to observe and learn about thai culture and behavior then you would not be getting so stressed;

- your wife clearly put her family before you - you should have looked for this before marrying her if you are not able to accept it

- never pay a thai to do a job up front

- never explain to a thai what needs doing and then leave them alone to get on with it

- you gave him the bike so it is up to him what he does with it, judging by past behavior it sounds like it was likely he'd either pawn it, write it off in an accident or write himself off in an accident - and it would be your fault for giving him the bike

- you've given him an inch and he's taken a mile, you should have stood up for yourself from the start with your wife and the brother

[williamgeorgeallen]

I'd leave her if I were you. Don't even divorce, just abandon her.

i would tend to agree with this. thais will generally choose their family over their foreign husband (not sure if it is the same with a thai husband) but choosing to side with her misfit brother over you is too much. hope you didnt spend too much on building the new house. i am currently in an esan village surrounded by new houses paid for by foreign men who no longer live in them.

[gemguy]

Hence why i would never deal with family..farang or thai in a business sense.

The actual job was so small and easy . 3000 \baht a few beers and some white whisky . The hard bit for me was getting the wire off and lifting the posts back out . The ground was very soft black earth from the lake so easy to dig , but not for her brother . He knew they all fell down but still came to my house without a blush or

care . But this motorbike thing left a bad taste in my mouth as i could have had 10,000 baht myself but gave it to him on my wifes advice then he lost the money playing cards .;

Still looking for the same advice , should i not be upset with and stop him first comign to my house every day secondly stealing food ?

Lock him out of the house and lock the food in a storage cabinet that he can not open.

Should not have to resort to that....but.... it seems in this case you have to make the effort to stop him from entering the house and or access to the food.

Ignore the wife's protests.

If it becomes an argument then pack you bags and let her know you are leaving for a week or so and let her know that every time she does not control or reprimand the little dick head then you are going away for awhile....and maybe not coming back.

Cheers

[ThaiTony2]

Learn to better understand. It's fairly obvious that you have your own ideas and expectations and when something doesn't work out in that regard you get angry with him. Let it go... Look at your own self and learn to know that you getting angry is coming from within yourself. It's all about you.

I'm not dismissing her brother from being uneducated but it is what it is and you would be much happier if you learn to let it go. Many Thai's act like their ignorant and do things that may bother us. It's easy to forget or understand that you guys are different and grew-up differently. Different culture, different father and mother. Everything about him and you is uniquely different. Know that you can easily find fault in most things about other people. The important lesson is to make yourself happy not angry. Work on it. Best to you.

[Farang99]

he is family, what do you expect? your wife will always prefer him over you when it comes to conflict. this is not a thai thing, it happens in every culture - everywhere.

next time, when your wife is unwell, invite your bil to an excursion somewhere nice and...

What a stupid thing to say, my ex never ever took her families side with stupid stuff like this. If a wife prefers a bad brother like that over her husband then its clear how she thinks about her husband.

Your acting like all Thais are the same... I am sure where ever you come from the guys over there are all carbon copiers of you acting the same and so on... must be..

If my wife's relatives behaved like the OP's they would get the sharp edge of her tongue.

[shirtless]

Simple concept here once you give something to a thai they will ultimately sell it, so dont give them anything unless they earn it, they think we are there to support their lazy relatives dont do it,

[lungnorm]

Life is cheap in Thailand. Just make the necessary arrangements indirectly thru a 3rd or 4th party.

[SOTIRIOS]

...in order to feel guilt or shame...'one' must have a soul....a conscience......

[BlindMagician]

Move.

Sounds like you are isolated in that village, with the sole function of being a source of money.

What kind of care can you expect in the years to come? Put that as your number one concern.

[ggt]

My God Dazzz...how long have you been here? Thais seldom get anything right the first time...seldom redo the work if they have already been paid...and think nothing of selling everything a farang gives to them...

Many farang gifts end up in the pawn shop...only to be reclaimed with the next sucker comes along to pay the pawn bill...

This is Thailand...do not get upset over the small stuff...stick to the big picture...

Your are happy here, right?

[TuskegeeBen]

Many westerners in Thailand should be ashamed of their own behavior, not just the Thais.

The OP topic thread is not a East/West comparative. "Why are Thais never ashamed" is the topic. Can you contribute a considered opinion to that topic point, instead?

[Tchooptip]

Hence why i would never deal with family..farang or thai in a business sense.

The actual job was so small and easy . 3000 \baht a few beers and some white whisky . The hard bit for me was getting the wire off and lifting the posts back out . The ground was very soft black earth from the lake so easy to dig , but not for her brother . He knew they all fell down but still came to my house without a blush or

care . But this motorbike thing left a bad taste in my mouth as i could have had 10,000 baht myself but gave it to him on my wifes advice then he lost the money playing cards .;

Still looking for the same advice , should i not be upset with and stop him first comign to my house every day secondly stealing food ?

You seem very upset over losing 10,000 baht. If tomorrow you lose 10,001 baht, are you going to go on a murderous rampage through the village?

Seriously, the quantity of money you are referring to is an insignificant amount. Move on with your life. Stopping living it as if it were you are a drama queen.

You do not seem to understand the OP's problem(s) at all. He's never whining about the loss of 10 K, no idea where you've read that.

Calling the OP a "drama queen", instead of giving him some honest advice only shows your ignorance.

If you've got nothing to say, please just be polite and don't post some nonsense. Thank you for your kid consideration.

I would add OP did not gave only a 10,000 Baht value gift but in fact was convinced by his wife to help the poor bil by giving him this deplacement mode, very different, so I understand perfectly OP frustration and calling him a drama queen is uncalled for (but predictable on TV friendly forum where hunters are ready to shoot anything that moves )

[Tchooptip]

Many westerners in Thailand should be ashamed of their own behavior, not just the Thais.

The OP topic thread is not a East/West comparative. "Why are Thais never ashamed" is the topic. Can you contribute a considered opinion to that topic point, instead?

Are you applying to be a mod?

Edited June 5, 2016 by Tchooptip

[i claudius]

Thank God i have a decent wife from a decent family , one of her brothers is stupid with money , but cheat you ,never . the only ones who are not ashamed are the the stupid low class idiots and there are many of those in the west as well

[FritsSikkink]

Firstly why are you with your wife she obviously does not respect you.

Secondly stop worrying about it, these things happen getting stressed wont help.

And lastly lesson learnt, don't pay thais upfront for building work and always supervise them.

Good luck and chill, its just the Thai way.

Yes you are pretty much right but not completely. My wife obviously loves her family more than me . I am not worried i am an ex soldier for a long time and am not stressed at all . A few tours of Ni cures you of that but i just do not want this guy in my house every day, all day. I never pay up front usually but as this was her brother i thought it would be ok .; All i ask ,y wife is this guy does not come to my house or eventually i will hit him as i hate the sight of him.

Your wife's brother is useless. You didn't give the right instructions for the job, never assume. If it is your house (the land isn't yours) than tell him he is trespassing, if he doesn't want to go throw him out.

If your wife doesn't choose your side let her go too. If it is your wife's house, you move out and leave your wife.

[HenryB]

I had issues like this before Poison Brother or Wife or Leave

I think leaving is the easiest and best

[smotherb]

he is family, what do you expect? your wife will always prefer him over you when it comes to conflict. this is not a thai thing, it happens in every culture - everywhere.

next time, when your wife is unwell, invite your bil to an excursion somewhere nice and...

Absolute rubbish. Marriage creates a new family in most cultures. If your wife still holds her biological family over you; she does not love you. I have been married to women of three different cultures, all of whom placed me over their biological family. And, before you say it; yes, I got divorced twice because I was a butt-hole. However I managed to change many of my ways for my third wife.