National Park Fees

[huddy]

The Article below is from the Nation's website on August 29th 2006. It suggests that national park entry fee increases have been deferred until next year. On Koh Chang they haven't. Farang visitors to the waterfall are being charged 400 baht. Thais are still being charged 20 Baht. Does anyone know the official story?

National parks : Entrance fee hikes to be deferred

The Natural Resources and Environment Ministry is to postpone for more than a year its plan to double entry fees at all national parks.

The fees were scheduled to rise on September 15, but caretaker Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat has agreed to postpone the hike until November 30 next year. Park entry fees for foreigners will rise from Bt200 to Bt400 and for Thais from Bt20 to Bt40.

Earlier this month, 500 tour operators rallied at the Tourism Authority of Thailand's office in Phuket to demand the increase be scrapped or, at least, their concerns be taken into account.

They said that doubling the entry fees will damage their livelihoods by causing a decline in the number of tourists visiting the parks, especially foreigners.

They said the two-tier system, under which foreign visitors pay 10 times the amount paid by Thais, has itself been a long-term embarrassment for tour operators and others in the hospitality industry.

[Creeper]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Creeper

[huddy]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

I agree. What is the proper rate though, 200 or 400 baht?

[toptuan]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

That's a sweet outlook but doesn't jive with reality. The signs indicate that the pricing is based on citizenship, but that's a facade for an uglier reality.

If you've got Asian eyes, skin and hair, you get in at the lower rate. I've traveled in Thailand with Japanese, Lao, and Cambodian nationals, and they get the cheap rate while I (light-haired, light- skinned, but working for the Thai government, making Thai wages, and paying my Thai taxes) pay through the nose.

The basic denominator is that the two-tiered pricing policy for Thai parks is racist.

Pure and simple. It also is amazingly coincidental with the all-too-common outlook of "The farang is the rich guy--milk him!"

I'm not angry or bitter, just pissed off and revengeful. I know, I should see a counselor.

Edited November 11, 2006 by toptuan

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree, also, that citizens should pay a lower, local rate. I think I paid 400 baht at Doi Inthanon because I didn't show my Thai DL. Another farang later paid 40 baht there, by showing his Thai DL.

[Nikkijah]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

I don't totally agree, I have lived here for around 6 years, 3 of those years with my current partner and 1 1/2 of those years with my partner and little boy, I do not have a driving license or any other form of documentation which allows me entry into national parks for a CHEAP rate.

You seem to be lauding your own good fortune here

Koh Chang for example, the waterfall is nice, I have visited it many times, when I lived on Koh Chang I used to ride my bike to Khlong Plu waterfall every day for a bathe and a read, I paid 20 baht, this was before the fees were increased...

Koh Chang is largely a travellers destination and in my opinion a lot of travellers won't bother visiting the waterfalls because of the price, now I'm not sure if a lot of you think this is a good thing or not but it is a little sad, no?

We should all pay the same rate to enter as we are all treading the same path, swimming in the same pool, taking the same photos and eating in the same bbq chicken stall next to the exit.

This has been discussed before and some people have mentioned that in their home countries the tourist gets in cheaper...

Edited November 11, 2006 by Nikkijah

[toptuan]

The previous post brings up another point: the bottom line is that this racist policy is unequally applied all over Thailand. When it comes to how admittance fee policies are applied, the ministry handling Thai parks is woefully lacking in training and quality-control of their park staff.

At Doi Intanon I also got in for the "Asian" rate by showing them my work permit. But two weeks ago at Ayuthaya National Historic park, they stiffed me for 10 times the Asian rate, despite me showing them a work permit, residence card, and Thai government employee ID card. When I suggested a discount matching the fee my Thai friend paid, the impertinent clerk just sneered and knocked on the counter which meant "more money or you don't get in, Buster!"

Unfortunately, I don't have a Thai wife/kid in tow to dramatically prove my ties to Tie-land. I'm sure it would help.

Edited November 11, 2006 by toptuan

[The Dan Sai Kid]

This is just an idea, but what about pinning a list of places that allow westerners in for Thai prices at the top of the Thailand Travel Forum.

There could be another one for the places that don't lower prices - whatever documentation is shown.

[meadish_sweetball]

I'm not angry or bitter, just pissed off and revengeful.

Nice one.

I agree people working legally in Thailand with a work permit should be exempt - and I guess some Thais agree (at Doi Inthanon etc.).

[smartecosse]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

That's a sweet outlook but doesn't jive with reality. The signs indicate that the pricing is based on citizenship, but that's a facade for an uglier reality.

If you've got Asian eyes, skin and hair, you get in at the lower rate. I've traveled in Thailand with Japanese, Lao, and Cambodian nationals, and they get the cheap rate while I (light-haired, light- skinned, but working for the Thai government, making Thai wages, and paying my Thai taxes) pay through the nose.

The basic denominator is that the two-tiered pricing policy for Thai parks is racist.

Pure and simple. It also is amazingly coincidental with the all-too-common outlook of "The farang is the rich guy--milk him!"

I'm not angry or bitter, just pissed off and revengeful. I know, I should see a counselor.

i think its racist as well.

to use edinburgh castle as an example as thats my home city if the guy collecting the money was to post a sign up saying that anyone that wasn't british or didnt look british had to pay 100 quid to get in instead of 10 he would be done for racism instantly.

"I'm sorry sir but your natural colour isnt blue, therefore you cannot be scottish please pay 10 times the price or get lost"

if you wouldn't accept it at home why should you accept what is blatant racism in a different country?

[Tarragona]

A couple of weeks ago we visited the Tad Ton waterfall in Ubon Ratchathani and I got in for Thai price by showing my tax card. Afterwards we found out that the tickets were valid on the same day for all the other places we were going - Kaeng Tana, Pa Taem and Soi Sawan waterfall. By Soi Sawan, we'd had such fantastic value for money that I didn't bother showing my ticket, just paid another 200 baht. More than worth it.

[Cigarette Burn]

I also agree that it's blatant racism, i was talking about this to my Thai language teacher and she was shocked that i considerd it to be racist, she told me that was 'to strong'.

[Creeper]

The basic denominator is that the two-tiered pricing policy for Thai parks is racist.

Pure and simple.

If it was racist, then I would have been charged 200 Baht because I'm white, I paid 20 Baht because I had a Thai driving License.

[smartecosse]

The basic denominator is that the two-tiered pricing policy for Thai parks is racist.

Pure and simple.

If it was racist, then I would have been charged 200 Baht because I'm white, I paid 20 Baht because I had a Thai driving License.

so its selective racism then..............

as usual there is no clear policy

[Creeper]

if you wouldn't accept it at home why should you accept what is blatant racism in a different country?

You don't have to accept it, just don't go to those places that you feel unhappy with, just as tourists in Scotland would if they were charged 100 quid to get into Edinburgh Castle.

I repeat again, it is NOT a racist policy.

If it was racist how come I pay 20 baht instead of 200 ?

[toptuan]

If it was racist how come I pay 20 baht instead of 200 ?

...because you went to a place in Ubon that had park personnel who understood that if you're making Asian wages and paying Asian taxes, you should pay the Asian fee.

Keep traveling in Thailand, and you'll wake up. You'll find out that the reasonable admittance policy you experienced is not uniformly applied at all park venues. At most park entrances, they'll look at your hair/eyes/skin and then jack up the price on you (up to 10 times the Asian rate)--no matter what documentation you show.

I call that racism.

I bite the bullet and pay it, because I'm a guest in this country. But I don't stoop to a PollyAnna response about the root cause, either.

I love Southeast Asia, and chose to live here for all the other wonderful advantages I enjoy, and my Thai hosts possess many other redeeming qualities which far outweigh the negative. However, Southeast Asians are decades behind the West when it comes to attitudes about race. If you don't notice it, you really haven't gotten into the culture yet.

In a hierarchical society, all are not equal--especially if you look different. Darker-colored students in my classroom suffer ridiculously merciless insults from other students because of their appearance. In a western classroom, I would have ejected the vocal student for racist attitudes. Not here. The darker one just grins and bears it, much like the black person had to do in pre-civil rights USA southern states. I enjoy making positive comments about the beautiful brown skin of my darker students, and watch the perplexed looks on the faces of my "fairer" more arrogant pupils. It may be the prevailing culture, but I'm trying to change their attitudes, one classroom at a time. I warn them if they want to visit MY country (and most of them do, because they are anglophiles), they better put on more tanning cream, because the darker, the better! (I know, now I sound like a racist myself!).

Meanwhile, cough up the 400-baht fees!

Edited November 11, 2006 by toptuan

[Sing_Sling]

I don't see why Thai people should pay the same as a Farang tourists. It's their country after all.

I'm a Farang and I get into parks at the same rate as Thais, ( well I have so far ) due to a Thai driving license.

Farang should look at it this way, they are paying the proper rate and the locals get a cheaper rate, not that the Thais pay the proper rate and Farangs are getting ripped off.

And of course you are completely contradicting yourself here. According to your criteria, you should have paid the higher rate - no excuses.

So, tell me - - - I don't have a Thai drivers license but employ a few Thais and pay corporate taxes - should I then pay the full rate or not?

Should I sack the workers and live off the savings and get a Thai drivers license by giving 100baht baksheesh? (Duh, doubt it)

It is racist and it is wrong.

(When I was working in Florida I got a percentage rebate for Disney because I had a Florida license. It was a small percentage and applied only to Floridian residents - NOT to all Americans or those with a US d/l)

[Creeper]

Should I sack the workers and live off the savings and get a Thai drivers license by giving 100baht baksheesh? (Duh, doubt it)

Why would you sack workers, a little dramatic I think.

You can get a drivers license without paying baksheesh.

[Creeper]

However, Southeast Asians are decades behind the West when it comes to attitudes about race. If you don't notice it, you really haven't gotten into the culture yet.

Yep I guess you must be right, I would imagine the Asians that get the crap beaten out of them in the inner city areas in the UK would agree that the West really leads the way in racial harmony. And of course, racism is non existent in the USA.

When will these Thais learn to be more like Westerners !!!!!!!!

[toptuan]

Why would you sack workers, a little dramatic I think.

Don't be so literal, Creeper. It's called "hyperbole," or exaggerating to make a point. Acceptable mode of argument.

[toptuan]

Yep I guess you must be right, I would imagine the Asians that get the crap beaten out of them in the inner city areas in the UK would agree that the West really leads the way in racial harmony. And of course, racism is non existent in the USA.

When will these Thais learn to be more like Westerners !!!!!!!!

Creeper, your logic is really weak. You're using the extreme as logical proof of your point. In any society--from Harlem to the Vatican--you'll find scum with racist attitudes. Don't use them to make your point.

What we're tallking about here is government-sanctioned racism. We have laws on the books in the west against these attitudes and actions, and it is enforced by general public concensus and officers of the law--however imprerfect those institutions may be.

Here in Southeast Asia, it's less than a law-centered culture (just look at the driving!), and the public concensus is absent on equal-rights issues regarding race.

Edited November 11, 2006 by toptuan

[sriracha john]

The Article below is from the Nation's website on August 29th 2006. It suggests that national park entry fee increases have been deferred until next year. On Koh Chang they haven't. Farang visitors to the waterfall are being charged 400 baht. Thais are still being charged 20 Baht. Does anyone know the official story?

National parks : Entrance fee hikes to be deferred

The Natural Resources and Environment Ministry is to postpone for more than a year its plan to double entry fees at all national parks.

The fees were scheduled to rise on September 15, but caretaker Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat has agreed to postpone the hike until November 30 next year. Park entry fees for foreigners will rise from Bt200 to Bt400 and for Thais from Bt20 to Bt40.

Earlier this month, 500 tour operators rallied at the Tourism Authority of Thailand's office in Phuket to demand the increase be scrapped or, at least, their concerns be taken into account.

They said that doubling the entry fees will damage their livelihoods by causing a decline in the number of tourists visiting the parks, especially foreigners.

They said the two-tier system, under which foreign visitors pay 10 times the amount paid by Thais, has itself been a long-term embarrassment for tour operators and others in the hospitality industry.

relevant posts taken from previous thread - Thai Parks Postpones Double-pricing Rise, Postponed Until Late Next Year

Was required to pay 400 baht for Foreigner and 40 baht for Thai yesterday at Koh Samet's National Park.

The staff knew nothing of any change and refused to believe it.

They have been charging 400 baht to pick-up trucks full of foreigners since September 16 based upon their latest guidelines from headquarters. The truck in front of ours had 12 foreigners (4,800 baht) and ours had 10 with 2 Thais (4,080 baht). There was a steady stream of them behind us.

*as an added note*

They seem more resistant as well to any sort of scamming or bending of the rules.

Two foreigners in our truck, I believe they were Swedish, who displayed a decent level of Thai language knowledge and produced Thai driver licenses and who sought entrance at the Thai price were rebuked and both ended up paying 400 baht each.

Was required to pay 400 baht for Foreigner and 40 baht for Thai yesterday at Koh Samet's National Park.

The staff knew nothing of any change and refused to believe it.

They have been charging 400 baht to pick-up trucks full of foreigners since September 16 based upon their latest guidelines from headquarters. The truck in front of ours had 12 foreigners (4,800 baht) and ours had 10 with 2 Thais (4,080 baht). There was a steady stream of them behind us.

to be more accurate, it is 400 baht for foriegn tourists.

if you are a foreigner with a work permit,permanent residency etc.. you should have no problem paying the local price.

Actually, the law says it's 400 baht for foreigners... period. With no concession for work permits, drivers licenses, etc.

Not sure about PR papers and would assume if one had obtained Thai citizenship, they would be allowed in at the Thai price.

Ultimately it seems to be varying from park to park as to which ones have started the 400 baht fee. It seems to be the more popular and frequented ones that have it in place, eg. Chang in your case, Samet in mine.

[bino]

Racism or not.... it is a lot of money to go and see a waterfall.

If you were a family of four here on vacation, it would cost you 1600 THB, over 40 USD every time you visited a national park. This alone will probably deter a lot of people.

[womble]

However, Southeast Asians are decades behind the West when it comes to attitudes about race. If you don't notice it, you really haven't gotten into the culture yet.

Yep I guess you must be right, I would imagine the Asians that get the crap beaten out of them in the inner city areas in the UK would agree that the West really leads the way in racial harmony. And of course, racism is non existent in the USA.

When will these Thais learn to be more like Westerners !!!!!!!!

Your a bit of a arn't you.

Another fool straight off the plane who thinks he knows everything.

You'll learn sonny, you'll learn.

[Creeper]

Why would you sack workers, a little dramatic I think.

Don't be so literal, Creeper.

Sorry Sir.

[dantilley]

I think the official ruling is that Thais or expat residents with a work permit or other proof of legal residence in Thailand pay the reduced rate. Tourists pay the higher rate. I think this is unfair, maybe, but not really racist as a white person with a work permit will pay the same rate as a Thai person. And if a Lao person owns up and admits that they're not Thai then they will also be charged the full amount; they often pay less though because they look Thai and aren't questioned.

The table tapping guy in your example, Toptuan, was certainly racist, but that's just down to the individual and not the policy of the government.

On another note, I wonder what would happen if you just walk straight in after paying the Thai rate in these situations? If they call the police, you should be in the right. This plan would obviously be dependent on you having the correct change for the entrance fee though...!

Edited November 11, 2006 by dantilley

[Creeper]

Another fool straight off the plane

hahahaha..........................Take your foot out of your mouth.

You assume because I don't spend my time on internet forums ranting about how hard done by I am, I must have been in Thailand a short while ?

hahaha........... Nice one.

[Creeper]

but not really racist as a white person with a work permit will pay the same rate as a Thai person.

My experience has been the same ( so far ).

[womble]

Another fool straight off the plane

hahahaha..........................Take your foot out of your mouth.

You assume because I don't spend my time on internet forums ranting about how hard done by I am, I must have been in Thailand a short while ?

hahaha........... Nice one.

Actually know it has nothing to do with the number of posts, it doesn't take a genius to work out that you can join a forum at any time.

It's actually your simplistic views of Thai's and Thai culture that could only come from someone who is eigher new here or has spent their whole time in bars completley unaware of what real life is like here.

and to prove my point here is another quote from creeper:

"As long as the girly bars stay open, Pattaya will always have a high season.

Close the bars, it'll be a ghost town."

You must be one of these people who thin ks that if they closed the gogo's and enforced prostitution laws the economy would crumble without your baht.

do you actually know anything about this country and the way it works?

[sriracha john]

I think the official ruling is that Thais or expat residents with a work permit or other proof of legal residence in Thailand pay the reduced rate.

With all due respect, I believe the by-the-book states merely foreigners one price, Thai citizens another.

Checking for more info, but officially there is no concession made for any document other than a Thai National ID card.

as can be gathered, this is an often discussed topic... yet another post from another thread:

I have never heard of a tax id and work permit in tandem NOT get someone in at local prices.

Just off the top of my head and to be quite specific from personal experiences, the following parks would accept ONLY Thai National ID cards for admission at Thai prices:

Pang Sida National Park

Huay Huat National Park

Khao Sam Roi Yot National Marine Park

It is a highly inconsistent policy extended across the country which lends itself to abuse and charges of racism/favoritism, and creates a great deal of resentment. Certainly not worth the ill will it generates.

It's a shame when those in power to effect change ignore the recommendations of those with brains. The solution is right in front of their noses:

Dr. Adis Israngkura, an economist at Chiang Mai University and a consultant to Thailand's first and foremost "think tank" (Thailand Development Research Institute) conducted a research project for TDRI on this very topic and wrote the best paper, "Determining entrance fees to national parks: the case of Thailand" that I have ever encountered on the subject.

The paper, published in 2001, made the following recommendations:

1. Higher fees, for all, to the more popular parks with many facilities, which can subsidize the smaller parks with very few facilities.

2. Higher fees, for all, on long week-ends/holidays when parks tend to be heavily visited to help ease congestion and lessen environmental degradation, which will result in increased visitor satisfaction.

3. Annual memberships and lifetime memberships should be offered and available to all.

4. Both Thai and foreigners should pay the same entrance fee, but special services should be made available to the foreign visitor for additional higher fees, such as English-speaking tour/travel guides or English-language information booklets/maps. "The current policy unnecessarily jeopardizes the the image of the overall tourism industry."

5. Entrances fees should be exempted for the elderly, the handicapped, and children visiting on school trips.

I think when experts, and Thai himself, recognizes it as a problem, it's VERY telling....

Edited November 11, 2006 by sriracha john