Bringing Thaksin To Account

[baanthale]

Its curious how many people loathe Taksin, both Thais and Foreigners. And yet it wasn't so long ago that under the Suchinda ' govournment ' ( ? ) soldiers and police were shooting pro democracy demonstrators in the streets. The current prime minister, Mr Samak is on record as saying that there was only 1 death during these demonstrations, an awful slap in the face to anyone who lost a loved one. If Mr Taksin is to be held to account for his corrupt leadership shouldn't people also be demanding justice for those killed during the last coup. However, if you mention this to many Thais there answer is likely to be '....don't go there '. Its a taboo subject if you value your safety.

To call a Thai politician corrupt, is, as Martin Sheen put it, ' like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500 '. To be corrupt is almost a prerequisit if you want to get ahead in local politics. And has anybody who reads the Bangkok Post noticed that from time to time there is a free supplement anouncing the opening of a new factory somewhere. Inside there will be a ' family tree ' of the company executives and perched on the top branches there is nearly always a General this or that. They seem to have expertise in just about everything, from making cars to turning out furniture. Wonderfully useful.

But now it appears that one family, Mr Taksins is responsible for all the ills in the country and if only he can be stripped of his fortune and locked away everything will be roses roses. Dream on. Until EVERYONE in a position of public responsibility is held to account there will continue to be roller coaster politics with the rich and influential playing musical chairs while the poor keep the country going.

You my friend speak the true, unfortunately you also speak to deaf ears. It's not about justice, it's about power and money changing hands, and about how to continue to hold the poor down.

[Plus]

How about learning basic Thai history?

Suchinda's soldiers were shooting people in 1992, and pro-democracy leader at that time, Chamlong Srimuang, is a key figure in the current protests as well.

Samak's one death claim was about events of 1976 (and, interestingly, some student leaders of that time are faithfully serving in his government now).

>>>>

It's nice that someone makes an effort to learn Thai social structure, even if only from glossy newspaper supplements, but I think it's a bit premature to tell everyone to "dream on".

It's easy to impress Baanthale, though.

[rubik101]

IvyKing, while wishing a long and happy life to your revered King, I think that trying to preserve him and his image in 1997 or whatever is a somewhat misguided effort.

Growing old will hopefully happen to all of us. Looking old is simply a part of life. I accept that his recent illness has made him look a little weary, but that is all part of the process.

We have a Queen in this country who is shown on our banknotes from a picture painted about fifteen years ago. Her public appearances show her to be somewhat older than her well known image, but nobody complains.

Long live The King.

[Plus]

You better drop the subject before Mods get a reason to delete the posts.

[Bangyai]

How about learning basic Thai history?

Suchinda's soldiers were shooting people in 1992, and pro-democracy leader at that time, Chamlong Srimuang, is a key figure in the current protests as well.

Samak's one death claim was about events of 1976 (and, interestingly, some student leaders of that time are faithfully serving in his government now).

>>>>

It's nice that someone makes an effort to learn Thai social structure, even if only from glossy newspaper supplements, but I think it's a bit premature to tell everyone to "dream on".

It's easy to impress Baanthale, though.

Thank you for your comment Plus. I stand corrected. I heard Samak make the comment on the news but mistook it for a reference to the events of 1992.

The October 5th coup of 1976 that you refer to culminated in the death and wounding of over 100 student demonstrators which makes Samaks remark all the more callous.

I assumed people would know that the Suchinda coup took place in 1992 as in my opinion it was indeed not so long ago. After Suchindas resignation he was ' punished ' by being made Chairman of Telecom Holdings, the holding company of Telecom Asia which is today known as True. Since he was in a position to have sanctioned the shooting of demonstrators do you personaly think it was ' just ' that he has escaped criminal charges.

[IvyKing]

Suchinda and all other general in the past that order the shooting should be trial in court. The only crime Thaksin convict was that he was an ex-police office (low ranking), and not an ex-army general. This is a clear warning to all potential PM. You better earn your General grade before trying to run for PM.

Thai court cannot trial a military office. It has to be dealt with by the military court. Sorry to say that there was no such arrangement for the police force. C'est la vie.

[hammered]

Interesting article by Shawn Crisipin here on a perceived lack of support from the US for Thaksin:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JH08Ae01.html

[marshbags]

I was going through BBC site and fould this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7535507.stm

I find that BBC has no respect in puting the beloved King photo below that of Thaksin & his criminal wife. Remember, this is Thailand. In the old days, one could be beheaded just by standing taller that the King, irrespect your physical hight. Remember the scene in The King & I (Oops, I forgot that Thai people are not allowed to watch this movie).

I also don't know where BBC choice this photo (of the King) that looks really old and tired. There are lots of other photos available where his majestic looks much younger, more energetic, and more charming. This photo is a bad choice, and has been used several times to make a animal mocking his majesty in YouTube.

I hope BBC would respect the King more. Else, I will stop visiting their site.

This has what to do with anything related to the thread ?????

You are a troll of the worst kind and need to be given an indefinite time in exile, " newbie ".

How convenient to post this contribution in your present status,

Sadly you undermine all others who are joining with a view to making positive debate and observations.

marshbags and

Edited August 8, 2008 by marshbags

[marshbags]

Interesting article by Shawn Crisipin here on a perceived lack of support from the US for Thaksin:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JH08Ae01.html

Nothing personal but I cannot find any reference to the EJK,s or related comments to the drug enforcement and the horrific suffering that took place, leaving families of innocent murdered victims to endure a lifetime of suffering.

Maybe it would get more deserved attention and comment in the S.E Asia forum instead of here.

IMHO of course

marshbags

Edited August 8, 2008 by marshbags

[marshbags]

May i humbly offer a suggestion to posters who are seemingly going off topic and as a possible consequence will eventually get the thread closed down.

( In doing so you would cut off this important vehicle to profile and highlight what took place, along with continuity )

This is disrespectful to all the victims and the families of those who suffered during this evil vendetta which was to do nothing other than promote Thaksins selfish reputation as an alledged respected leader, instead of that of an infamous dictatorial murderer, ( by association if nothing else can be / is proven at this stage, officially, that is )

The evidence however for the doubters is within this thread, should anyone need to read up on the history of it all, perhaps this is where to start.

Ref url :- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bringing-Tha...unt-t92482.html

marshbags

Edited August 8, 2008 by marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

Its curious how many people loathe Taksin, both Thais and Foreigners. And yet it wasn't so long ago that under the Suchinda ' govournment ' ( ? ) soldiers and police were shooting pro democracy demonstrators in the streets. The current prime minister, Mr Samak is on record as saying that there was only 1 death during these demonstrations, an awful slap in the face to anyone who lost a loved one. If Mr Taksin is to be held to account for his corrupt leadership shouldn't people also be demanding justice for those killed during the last coup. However, if you mention this to many Thais there answer is likely to be '....don't go there '. Its a taboo subject if you value your safety.

To call a Thai politician corrupt, is, as Martin Sheen put it, ' like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500 '. To be corrupt is almost a prerequisit if you want to get ahead in local politics. And has anybody who reads the Bangkok Post noticed that from time to time there is a free supplement anouncing the opening of a new factory somewhere. Inside there will be a ' family tree ' of the company executives and perched on the top branches there is nearly always a General this or that. They seem to have expertise in just about everything, from making cars to turning out furniture. Wonderfully useful.

But now it appears that one family, Mr Taksins is responsible for all the ills in the country and if only he can be stripped of his fortune and locked away everything will be roses roses. Dream on. Until EVERYONE in a position of public responsibility is held to account there will continue to be roller coaster politics with the rich and influential playing musical chairs while the poor keep the country going.

How`s that for distorting reality?

What`s this about dead people in the last coup?

Two mentally deranged people commited suicide in Thaksin`s honour, one hung himself under a bridge and the other drove his taxi into a tank.

Not a single bullet was fired during the last coup, which year are you taking about?

[Tod Daniels]

Which year are you taking about?

Had you even done a cursory Google of "suchinda government thailand" BEFORE you spouted off about the current coup, you would have seen this is in reference to the coup in the early 90's.

Suchinda Kraprayoon (Thai: สุจินดา คราประยูร) was Prime Minister of Thailand from 7 April 1992 until 24 May 1992. Suchinda was a leader of the National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC), which conducted a coup d'etat that ousted the elected government of Prime Minister Chatichai Choonhavan on 23 February 1991. The NPKC installed former diplomat Anand Panyarachun as Prime Minister. After the general election on 22 March 1992, five parties supported Suchinda as the prime minister.

His appointment as Prime Minister on 7 April 1992 resulted in large protests, culminating in a general curfew and military deployment in Bangkok. In the event known as Black May, up to 300 people are believed to have died when soldiers opened fire on unarmed students and demonstrators during the protests. Further escalation was avoided by the intervention of the King.

Suchinda's resigned from the Premiership on 24 May 1992. After resigning, General Suchinda was appointed Chairman of Telecom Holdings, the holding company of Telecom Asia.

I believe the poster was drawing an analogy between the misdeeds of the past prime minister's actions and the lack of any repercussions, while the most current ex-prime minister is facing a much different tune.

30 seconds worth of Google would have solved your "open mouth insert foot" nonsensical statements.

[Bangyai]

Which year are you taking about?

Had you even done a cursory Google of "suchinda government thailand" BEFORE you spouted off about the current coup, you would have seen this is in reference to the coup in the early 90's.

Suchinda Kraprayoon (Thai: สุจินดา คราประยูร) was Prime Minister of Thailand from 7 April 1992 until 24 May 1992. Suchinda was a leader of the National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC), which conducted a coup d'etat that ousted the elected government of Prime Minister Chatichai Choonhavan on 23 February 1991. The NPKC installed former diplomat Anand Panyarachun as Prime Minister. After the general election on 22 March 1992, five parties supported Suchinda as the prime minister.

His appointment as Prime Minister on 7 April 1992 resulted in large protests, culminating in a general curfew and military deployment in Bangkok. In the event known as Black May, up to 300 people are believed to have died when soldiers opened fire on unarmed students and demonstrators during the protests. Further escalation was avoided by the intervention of the King.

Suchinda's resigned from the Premiership on 24 May 1992. After resigning, General Suchinda was appointed Chairman of Telecom Holdings, the holding company of Telecom Asia.

I believe the poster was drawing an analogy between the misdeeds of the past prime minister's actions and the lack of any repercussions, while the most current ex-prime minister is facing a much different tune.

30 seconds worth of Google would have solved your "open mouth insert foot" nonsensical statements.

Yes, thanks for that Tod. I typed out a long explanation for Tony this morning full of Wikipedia cross references etc , spent an hour on it, then pressed ' add reply ' and it disappeared into cyber space. ' Gonads !! ' After that I couldn't be bothered to do it all again so you've saved me the bother. I'm guessing that Tony knew what I was refering to but wanted to be pedantic. In a nutshell my point was that seeing Suchinda on T.V a couple of nights back, free as a bird and as wealthy as ever , it made me angry to think that there are criminals out there who have gotten away more than scot free and without attracting all the hatred Taksin has .?

As for Taksins misdemeanors, take a look at the You Tube ' Thai Military assault on unarmed 85 deaths. " video footage of the Tak Bai incident which also happened during his administration and that he later tried to defend.

[sriracha john]

Which year are you taking about?

Had you even done a cursory Google of "suchinda government thailand" BEFORE you spouted off about the current coup, you would have seen this is in reference to the coup in the early 90's.

Suchinda Kraprayoon (Thai: สุจินดา คราประยูร) was Prime Minister of Thailand from 7 April 1992 until 24 May 1992. Suchinda was a leader of the National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC), which conducted a coup d'etat that ousted the elected government of Prime Minister Chatichai Choonhavan on 23 February 1991. The NPKC installed former diplomat Anand Panyarachun as Prime Minister. After the general election on 22 March 1992, five parties supported Suchinda as the prime minister.

His appointment as Prime Minister on 7 April 1992 resulted in large protests, culminating in a general curfew and military deployment in Bangkok. In the event known as Black May, up to 300 people are believed to have died when soldiers opened fire on unarmed students and demonstrators during the protests. Further escalation was avoided by the intervention of the King.

Suchinda's resigned from the Premiership on 24 May 1992. After resigning, General Suchinda was appointed Chairman of Telecom Holdings, the holding company of Telecom Asia.

I believe the poster was drawing an analogy between the misdeeds of the past prime minister's actions and the lack of any repercussions, while the most current ex-prime minister is facing a much different tune.

30 seconds worth of Google would have solved your "open mouth insert foot" nonsensical statements.

Nice rant, but totally unnecessary if you look at what Tony quoted in red... to which his response was completely appropriate.

If the poster mistyped or miscommunicated his intent on which coup he was referring to, it's not Tony's fault. Last coup = last coup.

[mahtin]

May i humbly offer a suggestion to posters who are seemingly going off topic and as a possible consequence will eventually get the thread closed down.

( In doing so you would cut off this important vehicle to profile and highlight what took place, along with continuity )

This is disrespectful to all the victims and the families of those who suffered during this evil vendetta which was to do nothing other than promote Thaksins selfish reputation as an alledged respected leader, instead of that of an infamous dictatorial murderer, ( by association if nothing else can be / is proven at this stage, officially, that is )

The evidence however for the doubters is within this thread, should anyone need to read up on the history of it all, perhaps this is where to start.

Ref url :- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bringing-Tha...unt-t92482.html

marshbags

Here's another

http://www.jonathantaylor.net/?section=det...mp;story_id=129

Thailand's spiraling drug problems were supposedly going to be eradicated by the Thaksin's Government "War On Drugs" campaign. In actuality this gave the police free license to commit extrajudicial killings of anyone suspected of dealing in narcotics. The campaign's official death toll was 2,500, including an 8 year old boy, but many human right groups dispute this number making it much higher. No arrests were made of big time gang bosses or high ranking officials, laying grounds for complaint the police used the opportunity to kill dealers who competed with their own narcotic markets. Or those they feared knew too much of the truth about who really controls the narcotics trade in Thailand and so silenced them.'Ya Ba' translates into English as Mad Medicine.

[marshbags]

May i humbly offer a suggestion to posters who are seemingly going off topic and as a possible consequence will eventually get the thread closed down.

( In doing so you would cut off this important vehicle to profile and highlight what took place, along with continuity )

This is disrespectful to all the victims and the families of those who suffered during this evil vendetta which was to do nothing other than promote Thaksins selfish reputation as an alledged respected leader, instead of that of an infamous dictatorial murderer, ( by association if nothing else can be / is proven at this stage, officially, that is )

The evidence however for the doubters is within this thread, should anyone need to read up on the history of it all, perhaps this is where to start.

Ref url :- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bringing-Tha...unt-t92482.html

marshbags

Here's another

http://www.jonathantaylor.net/?section=det...mp;story_id=129

Thailand's spiraling drug problems were supposedly going to be eradicated by the Thaksin's Government "War On Drugs" campaign. In actuality this gave the police free license to commit extrajudicial killings of anyone suspected of dealing in narcotics. The campaign's official death toll was 2,500, including an 8 year old boy, but many human right groups dispute this number making it much higher. No arrests were made of big time gang bosses or high ranking officials, laying grounds for complaint the police used the opportunity to kill dealers who competed with their own narcotic markets. Or those they feared knew too much of the truth about who really controls the narcotics trade in Thailand and so silenced them.'Ya Ba' translates into English as Mad Medicine.

Thanks for this mahtin and your contribution from another source adds weight to the terrible injustices that took place.

Addd to the list the many totally innocent victims that also suffered a similar fate.

It has always been a big bone of contention for many and this in itself demonstrates the selective murder for self survival / interest at the expense of those unjustly considered insignificant and expendable.

To this day not one of the so called high, self elected, self important Puyai / officials have been brought to task.

Had this been a genuine objective re the eradication, they would surely have started with those who run the drug situation, starting with the very authorities who carried out these evil indiscrimate murders and using the less influencial members of Thai society as collateral to gain credit ( most fowl ) and enhance Thaksins reputation as a leader within the international circles.

marshbags

Edited August 9, 2008 by marshbags

[sriracha john]

UPDATE

Police admit boy, 9, was killed by officer

Police have admitted for the first time that a nine-year-old boy shot dead four years ago was accidentally killed by a police officer who tried to arrest his mother during the Thaksin government's war on drugs, which led to several thousand cases of extra-judicial killings. The fate of Chakrapan Srisa-ard, better known by his nickname ''Nong Fluke'', had long been a topic of hot debate. Opinion was divided on whether the little boy was killed by a bullet fired by one of the police who tried to arrest his parents in 2003, or by one of his parents' bodyguards as claimed by the police. ''The latest investigation clearly shows the boy was not killed by a criminal, but by a police officer,'' said Pol Lt-Gen Chongrak Chutanont, assistant national police chief, during a meeting on Monday on complaints about extra-judicial killings by police during the war on drugs. The DSI later looked into the case and found that the police involved had produced false witnesses and evidence to substantiate their claims about the boy's death.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02May2007_news13.php

Thanks for the update on the latest attempted get out clause relating to this well documented and distrubing case of indiscriminate killing ?????? S.J.

No initial admittance of wrongdoing / questionable accidental killing along with blaming a third party to take accountability from their actions.

No genuine remorse what so ever or attempts to investigate and confirm this pathetic and again misleading claim it was accidental

They must think everyone is lacking in the old grey matter and hallucinating on what actual took place.

How they can still under estimate the publics perception of what actually took place and the consequent abhorrence when they televised the aftermath at the scene of the murder / shootings and the realisation of the consequences relating to young occupant and his mother was apparent for all to see.

THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THE VEHICLE BY VARIOUS WELL KNOWN METHODS AND SECURED THE OCCUPANTS HAD THIS BEEN THEIR HONEST / AND REASONABLE OBJECTIVE

<deleted>

Fired in self defence my a***e hole..

They had a target with one objective in mind and it had nothing to do with self defence and well they know it and more importantly so does everyone else.

Save the time and the inventing of further mis truths and excuses as no one will be fooled or mislead by by them.

It has taken them 4 long years to come up with this lame and insulting version of fictitious events in this particular case and still more time is needed to SPEED up the E.J. Killings on which every HONEST caring person knows the objectives and conclusion of already....

NO Bullshit, officer, ask any of them who were walking / cowering among these unfortunate victims when the bullets were flying in all directions.

As was seen in Udonthani on several occasions, families and children within range, yet no gave a satang about the threat of hitting them, among them a certain FARANG ??????????

ARRESTS COULD AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE, SAFELY, AS THE POLICE WERE THE ONLY ONES ARMED AND IT WAS OBVIOUSLY SO

ONE POOR GUY HAD LEGGED IT AND HAD BOTH HIS HANDS ON THE M.BIKE HANDLE BARS ??????????

On Markheang Rd., just around the corner from the Nee Soon supermarket were he,d parked it with his lady and a child in waiting, first of all terrified and then distraught at the bloody outcome, crying hysterically.

Ruthless extermination in the extreme sense of the word to silence individuals and protect the PuYai suppliers from being identified.

marshbags Still for all the families and about this and other human rights abuses that happened under the last governments watch.

UPDATE... they're opening the case back up, marshbags...

WAR ON DRUGS

Boy's death reinvestigated

The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has reopened the investigation into the killing of 9-year-old Chakrapan Srisa-ard during the Thaksin government's War on Drugs. Chakrapan, known as Fluke, was killed when police opened fire on a car driven by his mother as she fled from a drug sting set for his father in February 2003. The DSI recently invited 3 police officers accused of shooting the boy to acknowledge charges of collusion to commit murder and attempted murder. Police Sgt-Maj Pipat Saen-in, Cpl Panumart Chana-kham, and L/C Anusorn Thaensuwan from Bang Chan police station denied all charges and were released on bail. The investigation was reopened at the request of the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC). It has asked the DSI for proof Chakrapan was killed by a bullet from a police officer's gun. The Criminal Court earlier this year dismissed the charges, saying investigators could not identify the gun which killed the boy. The boy's uncle, Somchai Koedrungruang, said his family had filed an abuse of authority complaint with the NCCC in May this year against Pol Col Pakorn Pawilai, an investigator at Nang Loeng police station who decided not to charge the officers when his family first lodged their complaint. The family also filed abuse of authority complaints against the three officers who were eventually charged. Mr Somchai said he had so far not heard of any progress in the

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/300908_News/30Sep2008_news15.php

Edited September 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[phupaman]

Hi All .

Sorry if I am in the wrong thread, But talking of innocent people being shot at multiple times, Is there any word of Yongyuth and his brave band of policemen ever getting to court? Or are they waiting

for the old couple to die of old age.

phupaman

[sriracha john]

Hi All .

Sorry if I am in the wrong thread, But talking of innocent people being shot at multiple times, Is there any word of Yongyuth and his brave band of policemen ever getting to court? Or are they waiting

for the old couple to die of old age.

phupaman

The thread for that topic is:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Deputy-Leade...ty-t148479.html

Deputy Leader Of The People Power Party To Stand Trial For Attempted Murder, Former Thaksin Cabinet Minister and 7 Police Officers accused

The Ayutthaya provincial court accepted that case on Oct. 15, 2007. The first hearing for the case had been set for Nov. 27, 2007. There has been no news AFAIK of any follow-up, but in the absence of any definitive movement one way or the other, the opening court date was likely postponed. In January 2008, one of his victims, Grandma Udom, congratulated him on being named House Speaker...and then reminded him he still had not yet paid to fix her refrigerator from the incident 4 years prior.

but, sadly, there hasn't been any update on the case in quite some time...

Edited October 1, 2008 by sriracha john

[marshbags]

Govt's war on drugs launched to last 90 days

The government has launched a new round of drug suppression in a ceremony presided over by Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat on Thursday.

The war on drugs is scheduled between November and January.

In his speech, Somchai encouraged authorities to devote their full attention to fight trafficking although he cautioned them that his government would not condone silent killings which mired the 2003 campaign against illicit drugs.

The Nation

Unquote

Ironic or what, considering the relationship with / of the EKJ instigator !!!!!!!!!

God help those considered guilty in advance, should they give them an excuse to use enforcement of a non judicial kind.

marshbags

[koosdeboer]

Govt's war on drugs launched to last 90 days

The government has launched a new round of drug suppression in a ceremony presided over by Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat on Thursday.

The war on drugs is scheduled between November and January.

In his speech, Somchai encouraged authorities to devote their full attention to fight trafficking although he cautioned them that his government would not condone silent killings which mired the 2003 campaign against illicit drugs.

The Nation

Unquote

Ironic or what, considering the relationship with / of the EKJ instigator !!!!!!!!!

God help those considered guilty in advance, should they give them an excuse to use enforcement of a non judicial kind.

marshbags

I'm afraid that they will find a lot of drugs at people in yellow. The police will find their enemies for sure, as you say guilty in advance.

[marshbags]

New Anti-Drug Campaign Risks Abuses : Human Rights Watch

By The Nation, Thu, November 13, 2008 : Last updated 15:06 hours

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's new anti-drugs campaign is likely to lead to serious human rights violations without major changes in policy and personnel, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to end punitive treatment of drug abusers, carry out major reforms in policing, and provide justice for the close-to-3,000 extrajudicial killings during a similar campaign in 2003.

Brad Adams, Asia director for Human Rights Watch said the Thai prime minister said that this time around killings will not be tolerated, but the government said the same thing last time. "Somchai's credibility is at stake here."

Recently Somchai government has announced the new campaign on drug suppression would focus on a search for drug dealers. The aim was to reduce the supply to users between the ages of 13 and 18.

And those caught buying drugs would have to take part in a rehabilitation program at military camps or be sent to prison.

Adams said given Thailand's poor record with respect to coerced drug treatment, the statement raises serious concerns.

"Forcing drug users into badly designed rehabilitation programs is incompatible with international standards requiring fully informed consent to treatment," Adams said. "Furthermore, fear of prosecution and harsh treatment will drive them away from seeking health care services that are theirs by right and that could actually help them."

The director also referred to an investigation into the extra judicial killings that took place during government of Thaksin Shinawatra in which provided shocking findings that 2,819 people had been killed between February and April 2003.

Many of those killed had been blacklisted by police or local authorities as suspected drug dealers. Police officers were suspected to have been involved in many of the attacks, particularly as many were killed soon after being summoned to police stations for questioning.

"Many of the same people suspected of killings and other abuses in the last 'war on drugs' remain in positions of authority," Adams said.

"The government should prosecute and discipline those involved in previous abuses and institute reforms before asking the police to mount another campaign. Otherwise, more people are likely to be killed."

Unquote

Let us hope it,s not more of the same for everyone deemed possible suspects !!!!!!!!!!!!!

marshbags and still

Edited November 13, 2008 by marshbags

[younghusband]

New Anti-Drug Campaign Risks Abuses : Human Rights Watch

By The Nation, Thu, November 13, 2008 : Last updated 15:06 hours

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's new anti-drugs campaign is likely to lead to serious human rights violations without major changes in policy and personnel, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to end punitive treatment of drug abusers, carry out major reforms in policing, and provide justice for the close-to-3,000 extrajudicial killings during a similar campaign in 2003.

Unquote

Let us hope it,s not more of the same for everyone deemed possible suspects !!!!!!!!!!!!!

marshbags and still

Excellent response from Human Rights Watch(HRW), one organisation which has consistently cut through the lies and obfuscation that shroud human rights in Thailand.I endorse every word.Here is another response from HRW dated 18th October on the current political violence in Thailand, which I assume will be also accepted by all honest observers.It among other things is very precise on the repulsive nature of the PAD movement as well as the pro government thuggery.

Political Crisis Threatens Lives and Democracy

(New York, October 15, 2008) – Thai authorities and anti-government protesters should immediately cease using political violence to resolve their differences, Human Rights Watch said today.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to initiate an independent and impartial investigation into politically motivated violence by both sides since the opposition People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) began its street protests in Bangkok on May 25, 2008. Members of the PAD, pro-government groups, and government officials responsible for unlawful acts, including police using excessive force, should be held legally accountable.

“Instead of attacking each other on the streets, the Thai government and PAD should use democratic and legal channels to end their disputes,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The authorities should only use the force necessary to protect public security, while PAD should end violence, vacate government buildings it has occupied, and disarm its supporters.”

The PAD, led by opponents of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, has tried to force the resignation of successive Thai governments it claims are surrogates for Thaksin, who is living in the United Kingdom after fleeing corruption charges.

Three protesters have been killed and hundreds of others injured, including at least 40 police officers, and more violence in Bangkok is feared. In the most recent bout of serious violence, on October 7, police tried to disperse 2,000 anti-government protesters in front of Parliament using teargas and rubber bullets. Witnesses told Human Rights Watch that they heard loud explosions when police charged the protesters. The blasts nearly severed the leg of one PAD protester, while many others suffered deep wounds and burns.

PAD protesters responded by firing guns, shooting slingshots, throwing bricks and metal pipes, trying to run over police officers with pickup trucks and stabbing police with flagpoles. According to the Public Health Ministry, two PAD supporters died and 443 were injured, including four cases of amputation. At day’s end, about 20 police had been injured.

On October 13, the head of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, announced that her investigation with the National Human Rights Commission concluded that Chinese-made tear gas canisters and grenades may have caused the deaths and severe injuries to PAD protesters on October 7. She found that this type of tear gas generates a powerful explosion before releasing the gas cloud. When fired from a tear gas gun, Chinese-made canisters travel 60 meters per second and deliver a powerful impact that can lead to death, loss of limbs, or serious burns.

News footage and accounts by witnesses indicate that police fired tear gas in a straight line and at close range directly at the protesters. Because of its excessive risk of causing serious harm, Human Rights Watch called for the withdrawal of all such tear gas from use by Thai police.

Available information from the recent protests indicates that, in at least some instances, Thai police appeared to have acted lawfully in using force in self-defense. In such cases, police and other security personnel should abide by the United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials. The Basic Principles call upon law enforcement officials to apply nonviolent means before resorting to force. Whenever the use of force is unavoidable, law enforcement officials are to use restraint and act in proportion to the seriousness of the offense. The legitimate objective of public security or self defense should be achieved with the least possible damage and injury, and with respect for the preservation of human life.

“While the Thai government has a duty to maintain law and order, police actions on October 7 appear to have been disproportionate and to have led to avoidable deaths and injuries,” said Adams. “The government should never be using deadly tear gas canisters against crowds of protesters.”

Since the standoff began in late May 2008, pro-government groups have attacked about a dozen rallies across Thailand organized by the PAD. Human Rights Watch found that many of these attacks were financed and coordinated by members of the governing People’s Power Party (PPP). For example, on July 24, more than 1,000 members of the pro-government Khon Rak Udorn Club, led by Kwanchai Praipana and Uthai Saenkaew (the younger brother of Theerachai Saenkaew, who was then the agriculture minister) used force to break up a peaceful rally of about 200 PAD supporters in Udorn Thani province. The police stood by while pro-government thugs beat and critically injured at least 13 PAD supporters and destroyed public property.

“By allowing pro-government thugs free rein to unleash brutality on protesters, the Thai authorities have contributed to political violence and tensions,” said Adams.

While public attention and media coverage in Thailand have focused almost entirely on violence committed by the authorities and pro-government groups, Human Rights Watch emphasized that the PAD and its supporters have also committed widespread violence.

After using roadblocks to block traffic in Bangkok, armed PAD protesters on August 26 besieged many government buildings in the city, including the NBT headquarters and the Government House, where the cabinet meets. The government obtained judicial injunctions and arrest warrants against PAD leaders, but could not end the siege of the Government House due to fear that it would result in serious violence.

After clashes between police and PAD protesters on August 29, the PAD effectively closed international airports in the southern provinces and imposed work stoppages on train service across the country. Violence escalated when the pro-government Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) engaged in street fighting with heavily armed members of the PAD on the morning of September 2, resulting in one death and more than 40 injuries.

Pro-government media have been verbally and physically harassed by the PAD during their coverage of the protests. The PAD has also shown open hostility toward government media outlets. On August 26, armed PAD protesters stormed the National Broadcasting of Thailand (NBT) headquarters and tried to stop the broadcast of NBT television and radio stations. NBT reporters and staff at Government House were threatened by PAD protesters and chased out of their mobile broadcast trucks.

Tensions increased in October when the police arrested PAD leaders Chaiwat Sinsuwongse and Chamlong Srimuang. In retaliation, thousands of PAD protesters on October 7 surrounded Parliament to block Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat from giving his policy statement to Parliament. Somchai insisted that the parliamentary meeting must proceed, and the police were ordered to disperse PAD protesters – leading to a new series of violent clashes between police and PAD on Bangkok’s streets. PAD protesters cut electricity and water supplies to Parliament. Surrounded by angry PAD protesters, hundreds of members of Parliament, ministers, senators, and parliamentary staff were stuck inside for more than five hours.

The PAD has also actively advocated the use of charges of lèse majesté (insulting the monarchy) against supporters of the government to stifle free expression. It accuses many pro-government websites of promoting anti-monarchy sentiments, a serious attack on freedom of expression given Thailand’s strict lèse majesté laws. More than 400 websites have closed in 2008, some under compulsion, others out of fear.

The PAD has advocated greater power for non-elected officials in the government. PAD leaders proposed that the number of elected members of Parliament be reduced to 50 percent of the total – with the remainder filled through the appointment of “retired officials and important people” and others. This follows the support of many PAD leaders for the September 2006 military coup that overthrew Thaksin’s elected government.

Human Rights Watch has repeatedly called for investigations into human rights abuses by Thaksin, but condemned the coup and current calls for another coup by Sondhi Limthongkul and other PAD leaders. Since 2006, PAD leaders have repeatedly asserted that the military has the right to intervene in politics to check corruption and to protect the monarchy and sovereignty.

Human Rights Watch urged the army chief, General Anupong Paochinda, to continue to show restraint in refusing calls from both sides for the army to intervene in the crisis.

“The PAD’s support for violence, unelected government and military coups threatens democracy and human rights in Thailand,” said Adams. “Sadly, it has allowed an aggressive mob to hijack peaceful protests to provoke a heavy-handed government response and incite another coup.”

[sriracha john]

New Anti-Drug Campaign Risks Abuses : Human Rights Watch

By The Nation, Thu, November 13, 2008 : Last updated 15:06 hours

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's new anti-drugs campaign is likely to lead to serious human rights violations without major changes in policy and personnel, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to end punitive treatment of drug abusers, carry out major reforms in policing, and provide justice for the close-to-3,000 extrajudicial killings during a similar campaign in 2003.

Unquote

Let us hope it,s not more of the same for everyone deemed possible suspects !!!!!!!!!!!!!

marshbags and still

Excellent response from Human Rights Watch(HRW), one organisation which has consistently cut through the lies and obfuscation that shroud human rights in Thailand.I endorse every word.

< completely off-topic news article snipped >

It's terrific you've learned how to post news in the News Clippings Forum, but now you just need to learn which thread to post the news into. If you peruse the forum closely, I think there might be one, possibly two, PAD-related threads.

Edited November 13, 2008 by sriracha john

[marshbags]

IvyKing, while wishing a long and happy life to your revered King, I think that trying to preserve him and his image in 1997 or whatever is a somewhat misguided effort.

Growing old will hopefully happen to all of us. Looking old is simply a part of life. I accept that his recent illness has made him look a little weary, but that is all part of the process.

We have a Queen in this country who is shown on our banknotes from a picture painted about fifteen years ago. Her public appearances show her to be somewhat older than her well known image, but nobody complains.

Long live The King.

IvyKing has already been banned from ThaiVisa.

Pardon ????????????????

marshbags

[CuttySark]

IvyKing, while wishing a long and happy life to your revered King, I think that trying to preserve him and his image in 1997 or whatever is a somewhat misguided effort.

Growing old will hopefully happen to all of us. Looking old is simply a part of life. I accept that his recent illness has made him look a little weary, but that is all part of the process.

We have a Queen in this country who is shown on our banknotes from a picture painted about fifteen years ago. Her public appearances show her to be somewhat older than her well known image, but nobody complains.

Long live The King.

IvyKing has already been banned from ThaiVisa.

Pardon ????????????????

marshbags

Just click "Members" at the top right. Search for "IvyKing". You will find that this member has already been "banned".

That doesn't mean re-incarnation in not possible.

[marshbags]

Edited by marshbags

IvyKing has already been banned from ThaiVisa.

Pardon ????????????????

marshbags

Just click "Members" at the top right. Search for "IvyKing". You will find that this member has already been "banned".

That doesn't mean re-incarnation in not possible.

I was wondering what the post has got to do with now and why as it isn,t relevant to the drugs debate and it would be a shame to see the thread go off track ( O.T. ) on what is after all, a controversial issue.

No offence intended, CuttySark...........but ?????

You wouldn,t be the re-incarnation by any chance would you

marshbags

Edited November 13, 2008 by marshbags

[younghusband]

New Anti-Drug Campaign Risks Abuses : Human Rights Watch

By The Nation, Thu, November 13, 2008 : Last updated 15:06 hours

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's new anti-drugs campaign is likely to lead to serious human rights violations without major changes in policy and personnel, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to end punitive treatment of drug abusers, carry out major reforms in policing, and provide justice for the close-to-3,000 extrajudicial killings during a similar campaign in 2003.

Unquote

Let us hope it,s not more of the same for everyone deemed possible suspects !!!!!!!!!!!!!

marshbags and still

Excellent response from Human Rights Watch(HRW), one organisation which has consistently cut through the lies and obfuscation that shroud human rights in Thailand.I endorse every word.

< completely off-topic news article snipped >

It's terrific you've learned how to post news in the News Clippings Forum, but now you just need to learn which thread to post the news into. If you peruse the forum closely, I think there might be one, possibly two, PAD-related threads.

Thanks very much and I owe you a debt of gratitude for pointing me in the direction of net tutorials.

I wondered whether my last post was off topic but thought there was a strong case for highlighting the excellent Human Rights Watch connection which tied together Marshbags' post and my own.The key issue here is that when there is a first class organisation like HRW one has to broadly accept its findings.In other words one cannot pick and choose.HRW rightly condemned the revival of the appalling drugs war by the present government in the first commentary posted and equally,among other things, the unacceptable behaviour of street mobs on both sides in the second.

I appreciate your advice although as explained above it wasn't really appropriate in this case.I am sure your intervention had absolutely nothing to do with the HRW reference to:

"The PAD's support for violence, unelected government and military coups threatens democracy and human rights in Thailand.Sadly, it has allowed an aggressive mob to hijack peaceful protests to provoke a heavy-handed government response and incite another coup."

Edited November 13, 2008 by younghusband

[Splatter]

In the 1940s the government was okay with the opium trade. But things got very tricky when the police and military became involved and had a few internal clashes due to their rivalry over who controlled what, continuing their barny through the 1960s. (Peleggi, 2007. pp65 - 6)

Does anyone know who controls the trade now? Police and / or Army?

[sriracha john]

New Anti-Drug Campaign Risks Abuses : Human Rights Watch

By The Nation, Thu, November 13, 2008 : Last updated 15:06 hours

Thai Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's new anti-drugs campaign is likely to lead to serious human rights violations without major changes in policy and personnel, Human Rights Watch said Wednesday.

Human Rights Watch called on the Thai government to end punitive treatment of drug abusers, carry out major reforms in policing, and provide justice for the close-to-3,000 extrajudicial killings during a similar campaign in 2003.

Unquote

Let us hope it,s not more of the same for everyone deemed possible suspects !!!!!!!!!!!!!

marshbags and still

Excellent response from Human Rights Watch(HRW), one organisation which has consistently cut through the lies and obfuscation that shroud human rights in Thailand.I endorse every word.

< completely off-topic news article snipped >

It's terrific you've learned how to post news in the News Clippings Forum, but now you just need to learn which thread to post the news into. If you peruse the forum closely, I think there might be one, possibly two, PAD-related threads.

Thanks very much and I owe you a debt of gratitude for pointing me in the direction of net tutorials.

I wondered whether my last post was off topic but thought there was a strong case for highlighting the excellent Human Rights Watch connection

< further off-topic comments snipped >

Something to realize when posting news in the News Clipping forum is that it is the actual news itself that is tied to the topic, not the source of the news.

Edited November 13, 2008 by sriracha john