Proof of income for Retirement Extension

[phkauf]

This will be my first time getting an extension and I understand the money requirements (800K or 65K/month or some combo). I am not on a pension or Social Security, but I do get over the 65K/month from investment income. This income is not steady with some months under and other months way over (the dividend cycles). When looking at it over an annual basis, my monthly income averages well above the 65K threshold. I have seen the form from the US Embassy and it is pretty generic I DO NOT intend to make a false statement about my income either to the US or Thai Government.

So my question is: if I show proof of annual income above the threshold regardless of how much comes in each month, will that be sufficient for Thai Immigration? I can provide monthly statements of income in my brokerage account to verify the amounts.

Additionally, if this is not going to work and I need to transfer the 800K to my bank here, I know it's 2 months prior for my first extension, but how long does it have to remain in Thailand? Meaning I would like to transfer it back out ASAP if allowed. I'm really trying to avoid the nonsense with FACTA by keeping as little money abroad as possible.

Thanks in advance.

[Eclipse]

You do not show any proof to the U.S Embassy. They take your word for it.

Immigration might want proof but very unlikely.

If you deposit 800,000 Baht into your bank you can do what you want with it once you have your extension.

Just make sure it is back again 3 months before your next extension.

[lopburi3]

You require the Embassy letter. There is no requirement for declared income to be steady so putting average of the year should not be an issue. Having the income statements if asked (probably will not be) should be fine.

[phkauf]

Thanks for your help. It seems a lot easier than I thought it would be - quite unusual for my experience so far here in Thailand. Now if only the office in CW was somewhere remotely close to public transport....( yeah I know the 51 bus, which is older than I am).

[lopburi3]

I suspect most of us can afford the taxi fare once a year. For 90 day reports you have options to use other locations/mail and internet.

[NancyL]

Hubby uses the Income Letter method and had taken our Federal Tax returns along with him to Immigration every year in case they ask for documentation of the amount of income he claims. In that case, the 1040 would show an annual income, not monthly. But, of course, Immigration (Chiang Mai) has never asked for any back-up documentation for the amount claimed on his Income Letter.

I have heard reports that they do ask for back-up documentation in at least one province, Phuket.

[Aussie69]

phkauf: if you earning such income from your investments why are you concerned about 800k which is relatively insignificant. Why not just leave it in your Thai bank permanently?

What is FACTA ?

[ubonjoe]

What is FACTA ?

It only concerns US citizens who must report if they have the equivalent of over $10,000 US in foreign bank accounts.

[lopburi3]

What is FACTA ?

It only concerns US citizens who must report if they have the equivalent of over $10,000 US in foreign bank accounts.

Actually that is the new tax reporting requirement Form 8938 for those with much higher levels/assets. The FBAR is the 10k report.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/comparison-of-form-8938-and-fbar-requirements

http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

[ubonjoe]

What is FACTA ?

It only concerns US citizens who must report if they have the equivalent of over $10,000 US in foreign bank accounts.

Actually that is the new tax reporting requirement Form 8938 for those with much higher levels/assets. The FBAR is the 10k report.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/comparison-of-form-8938-and-fbar-requirements

http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/NoRegFBARFiler.html

I just didn't want to go into much detail.

It does not concern me since I don't even come close to it in my accounts here (that are in my name).

[phkauf]

Again, Thanks for the help.

FACTA and all the other nonsensical IRS rules are what I'm trying to avoid by keeping as little money here as possible. It's good to know that the US declaration form is easy relative to some other countries.

[DogNo1]

The FATCA (Form 8938) and the FBAR are really not that much trouble. The FBAR can be completed online in about ten minutes! If you already receive forms K-1, as I do, once you set up your Form 8938 in Turbotax, it's there every year and you just need to change the numbers. Moving the money back and forth every year might actually be more trouble. BTW, the FBAR is triggered when you have money in a foreign bank account for any part of a year.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, the FBAR is triggered when you have money in a foreign bank account for any part of a year.

The problem for me with the FBAR and FACTA requirements is the federal financial penalties for failing to file and file on-time, even by innocent error, can be pretty substantial. So, I made the deliberate choice never to exceed $10,000 U.S. combined in my Thai bank accounts. Thus, no reporting FBAR or FACTA requirements period.

But obviously, for those who rely on the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank method of satisfying Immigration's retirement extension of stay financial requirement, they're going to exceed the FBAR reporting threshold every year automatically.

But re Dog's post above, the FBAR reporting requirement is ONLY triggered when you exceed the $10,000 cumulative in foreign financial assets at any point in the year, even if it's only for one day. However, if you stay under the $10,000 cumulative foreign financial assets through the entire year, you have no FBAR reporting required at all.

The separate triggering amounts for FATCA reporting are MUCH higher for expats who live outside the U.S., and even higher if the person with the foreign financial assets is married as opposed to single. So those probably don't come into play for most of the folks here as long as they're living in Thailand. The FATCA triggers for those living in the U.S. with foreign financial assets are, on the other hand, much lower and easier to trigger.

[phkauf]

@Ubonjoe and TallGuyJohn: Thanks a lot for clearing up the FACTA and FBAR (should be called FUBAR, because that's what it is).

Like you I'm trying to avoid inadvertently tripping one of the filing requirements and getting hit with some pretty ridiculous penalties, along dealing with the a-holes at the IRS.

It's good that I can use the income method to avoid this potential landmine.