Salt Water Pool

[jitagon]

Would anyone recommend a saline unit, alongside the pump and filter for their pool? Is the added expense worth not having to add chemicals every week?

[chownah]

There's been lots of discussion of swimming pools so I suggest that you do a search for 'swimming pools' or 'swimming pools salt' or whatever and you will find lots of discussion. I've never had a pool but I've thought about building one and basically I believe that the following is true but its best if you check it out to verify or disprove what I'm posting:

1. You don't need a unit to add salt...you just calculate the correct amount and dissolve it in when you fill the pool and then add some more whenever (again calculate the right amount) you add water to the pool.

2. You need to be sure that your pumps and fittings are all capable of handling salt water which means they will cost a bit more.

3. You still need to add chlorine or bromine or whatever for a disenfectant every week only you will be able to add a much much smaller amount.

I swam in a friends pool that had salt water and it was really pleasant. If/when I build a pool I'm thinking it will probably be with salt water....but I'll check it out more thoroughly before I do it....also I'll be checking out ozone water treating systems and see if they work well with salted pool....I really don't like chlorine.

[COBBER]

Never had a salt water pool but friends that have claim they are much easier and cheaper to maintain than a fresh water pool. As chownah has suggested the main reason most people go for them is because they dont like too much chlorine.

[roiet]

Would anyone recommend a saline unit, alongside the pump and filter for their pool? Is the added expense worth not having to add chemicals every week?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You still need to add chlorine or bromine for a disenfectant which adds more expense on top.

Swimming pool owners tend to use to much chlorine. Americans recommend 3 ppm CL which is 3x above the australian standard. Modern spas and pools use a combination of automatic chlorine feeders and ozonators. This enables reduction of CL level to less than 1 ppm. An ozonator is 3000 times more effective than chlorine. The injected ozone turns into oxygene after 3 hours and provides a very pleasant smell and is very gentle for the skin.

I use the above combination for my 16 m pool and I am very happy. No more stinking chlorine soup, besides that the costs for CL are reduced by more than 50 % .

For further info do a search for 'swimming pools'.

[Chang_paarp]

Salt water swimming pool chlorination is achieved by converting salt in to sodium and chlorine through electrolisis type process.

Most modern salt water chlorinators use a salt level of 3000 parts per million (0.3%) of salt to get sufficient chlorine to sanitise a pool. A low salt level can damage the (expensive) plates, too much salt can cause power problems in the control box, some models are better than others at handling this.

Part of the process of converting the salt to chlorine creates by products that increase the Ph of the water, so you will have to add acid regulaly. It is not a huge amount, in a typical house pool in Perth (45Kl) run about 8 hours per day as per standard summer mode will need about 250 ml acid a week.

Other maintanence issues include cleaning the "plates" that cause the salt to convert. This needs to be done about every 3-4 weeks, depending on water and model of chlorinator. There are some models of chlorinator that are "self cleaning" they cost more and still need the occasional cleaning.

There are other chemicals needed on a pool to keep water balance as opposed to just keep a chlorine level, as the pool is a dynamic system with the water exposed to the ellements. Things like people using the pool leaves and debris blowing in or animals in the pool can radically alther the water chemistry.This is the thing of several books.

[Baht Man]

You still need to add chlorine or bromine for a disenfectant which adds more expense on top.

Swimming pool owners tend to use to much chlorine. Americans recommend 3 ppm CL which is 3x above the australian standard. An ozonator is 3000 times more effective than chlorine.

besides that the costs for CL are reduced by more than 50 % .

So you still use chlorine AND your ozone generator??

Ozone is not an oxidizer that's why you still have to add chlorine...

With a salt/chlorine generator, you produce CL and add 0 % not 50%

Why have ozone sys. if you still have to add CL

BTW a 1.0 to 1.5 CL level is the norm here in the US, not 3.0

Edited October 31, 2006 by Baht Man

[Chang_paarp]

Ozone is not accepted as the primary sanitiser in many markets. One problem it has is it only works while the equipment is operating, there is no residual sanitising when the equipment is not operating.

The recommended levels in of chlorine vary with local health officials. In Au the recommendation by the state health departments is:

Ph 7.2-7.6

Free available chlorine. Over 1ppm and over 2ppm in a pool with cyanuric acid (stabiliser)

Stabiliser level of less than 40ppm.

Ph is important as it affects the way chlorine works as a sanitiser, if the Ph is 8.2 the chlorine is 10x LESS effective than at 7.6. Ph below 7.2 is not recommended as it can hurt the eyes and mucus tissues.

Stabiliser is helpful as it helps reduce the amount of chlorine that is removed from the pool by UV.

[CGW]

Has any body got a salt water pool? if so can they advice of anybody who can "install\convert" a pool.

Thanks

[fourbaht]

The only one I know of is the one at the Hotel that looks like a castle or next door, Its on soi 5 up on the Pratumnak hill and faces the beach.

I am sure they could point you in the right direction

[monty]

I have one!

It's a pretty easy conversion, they just have to install the electrolysis unit in the pipe going from your filter to your pool, connect it to the control box and put the salt in the water...

Total cost between 40,000 and 60,000 Baht, depending on the size of your pool.

Works absolutely brilliant, the only thing you have to add sometimes is some acid, because the electrolysis tends to make your pool alkalic (raises the Ph)....

I'll shoot off a PM with the blokes contact, not sure I can put the contacts here!

[fourbaht]

Monty

Why do u prefer a salt water one? I am really interested as I have just a standard one, are there benefits?

[CGW]

Thanks Monty,

Reason for salt water is it is "kinder" chlorine is quite nasty stuff, though salt water it is still making chlorine, it's not as harsh!

Also supposed to be far easier (and cheaper) to maintain pool

Cheers

[monty]

Correct,

The only thing the electrolysis does is turn the salt into chlorine. The chlorine degenerates back to salt when sanitizing the pool.

Basically the control unit keeps the chlorine at the exact level pretty much at all times.

With a manual pool, you add chlorine every two or three days, so the chlorine level always goes from quite a bit too much (right after adding the chlorine) to just a bit on the low side (just before adding).

This also results in the Ph (acidity) being unstable, since the stabilized chlorine you add in manual pools is acid. Hence the need to add soda ash to keep the water from going acid.

Also, when the manual pool's chemistry is a bit off, you tend to get more dead algae and other stuff settling on the bottom, requiring more vacuuming...

In short, with the saltwater pool you just forget about chemistry, apart from checking Ph level maybe once a week. Once every three months you might have to add some salt...

It'll always be comfortable to swim in because there never is a high level of chlorine present, and the Ph is never too low (acid, gives you sore eyes)... On top of it you get away with less vacuuming!

P.S. The saltlevel is only at about a tenth of that of seawater, you can hardly taste it, if at all...

[rocky]

I have a salt water pool, and Monty is correct 100%

Home and pool are the company that did my pool, very proffesional

http://www.homeandpool.com/

HOME & POOL CO.,LTD.

3/219-220 M. 6 PATTAYA SAI 3 RD., NAKLUA , BANGLAMUNG CHONBURI 20150

Tel : (038) (038) 412677 – 8, 371178-9 , 416166 Fax: (038) 412679, E-mail : [email protected]

I would use them again

[Nawtilus]

When you are setting up/building a pool, is there anything that needs to be done or changed for a salt water pool if the original ntention was for a fresh water one ?

Or is it just as simple as adding the electrolysis unit when the rest of the system is being connected.

[Chang_paarp]

When you are setting up/building a pool, is there anything that needs to be done or changed for a salt water pool if the original ntention was for a fresh water one ?

Or is it just as simple as adding the electrolysis unit when the rest of the system is being connected.

If the pool is concrete, it is best if it older than 6 months as the concrete is still curing. If the pool is tile, painted or fibreglass you can convert any time.

It is a simple matter of installing the chlorinating cell in the return line to the pool from the filter, it has to be higher than the filter to reduce problems if something goes wrong. Add the salt, wait for it to dissolve, and turn the system on. The control box for most salt chlorinators has the timer for pump so can control when to run things.

Remember to run the pump and filter (and chlorinator) when ever someone is in the pool.

[Jai Dee]

Where do you buy the salt in Pattaya?

Myabe a stupid question as I know there are heaps of salt farms up Chonburi way...

[george]

Topic moved to Swimming Pool forum

[rocky]

Where do you buy the salt in Pattaya?

Myabe a stupid question as I know there are heaps of salt farms up Chonburi way...

Home and pool deliver the salt i need, it is a bag the same as a big bag of cement, could be wrong but i think the cost is 600bht a bag,

I can also tell you that the maintenance of a salt water system is cheaper.

Home and pool are the company that did my pool, very proffesional

http://www.homeandpool.com/

HOME & POOL CO.,LTD.

3/219-220 M. 6 PATTAYA SAI 3 RD., NAKLUA , BANGLAMUNG CHONBURI 20150

Tel : (038) (038) 412677 – 8, 371178-9 , 416166 Fax: (038) 412679, E-mail : [email protected]

[monty]

Although Home and Pool do a quality job, I find their pricing on the high side.

The company done the job for me is P&N poolshop.

They are located on highway 36, but Phil, the owner, is easily contacted on his mobile and will come out to your place for anything poolwise needed...

His phone number is: 081 004 4971

Very happy with their work and especially their after service!

Jai Dee, P&N delivers the salt in 50kg bags, and costs approx. 350 Baht/bag...

[Jai Dee]

Thanks Monty.

I actually have a conventional chlorine pool at present, built by Home and Pool by the way... but am thinking seriously of converting to salt.

I've had 4 salt water pools before...back in WA, and they are very easy to maintain compared with this one.

[fourbaht]

Thanks guys

Very informative

[riddles]

I have had several salt chlorinated pools in Australia and I now have one in Nong Khai.

It is the way to go.

There is only one problem. Sunlight "ëats" chlorine and you need to add a pool stabiliser (concentrated cyanuric acid). People who have a manual chlorine pool use chlorine with stabiliser already added. If you do not have cyanuric acid in your pool, the sun can deplete it of its chlorine in 2-3 hours!! For a pool of 50,000 litres, 2kg is sufficient. Just like you can buy a test kit for your ph and chlorine, you can also buy one for your stabiliser. But no matter how well balanced your pool chemicals are, if you do not have stabiliser then the sun will do its job.

And now I come to the big problem. I have searched Thailand and I cannot find anyone who sells pool stabiliser (concentrated cyanuric acid). If anyone out there knows of someone who does, then let me know. I am making arrangements for a friend to bring me some from Australia on his next trip.

[Chang_paarp]

Beware, as an (organic) acid you are not supposed to transport it by air. You friend can get into all sorts of doo doo if his luggage is checked. It is a pain.

In Au it has to be transported with the dangerous goods, thus by land.

Olin has a Thai agent, so do a couple of the manufacturing companies as well as the repackers. Funny it seems to manufacured in the US.

[Chang_paarp]

I have had several salt chlorinated pools in Australia and I now have one in Nong Khai.

It is the way to go.

There is only one problem. Sunlight "ëats" chlorine and you need to add a pool stabiliser (concentrated cyanuric acid). People who have a manual chlorine pool use chlorine with stabiliser already added. If you do not have cyanuric acid in your pool, the sun can deplete it of its chlorine in 2-3 hours!! For a pool of 50,000 litres, 2kg is sufficient. Just like you can buy a test kit for your ph and chlorine, you can also buy one for your stabiliser. But no matter how well balanced your pool chemicals are, if you do not have stabiliser then the sun will do its job.

And now I come to the big problem. I have searched Thailand and I cannot find anyone who sells pool stabiliser (concentrated cyanuric acid). If anyone out there knows of someone who does, then let me know. I am making arrangements for a friend to bring me some from Australia on his next trip.

I have to eat humble pie about my reply above.

Cyanuric acid does not have a UN number and is not classified as dangerous goods. I checked with one of my friends in the industry today, and it used to have this classification, but it mysteriously changed 7 or 8 years ago. I know the stuff is relatively inert as it does not burn readily or react violently with anything, but that does not guarentee anything.

The people I spoke to were telling me they just shipped a container of stabaliser to one of the gulf states. They have not been using it there. So you may well have trouble finding the stuff in LOS.

Just a word of caution as it is a white powder like substance, make sure your friend has the stuff in a sealed, labeled plastic bag. It could save some embarrassing questions if they chose to inspect his bags. A quick read of the new airport forum will reveal the customs folk there are aggressively looking for things to fine people for.

[Naam]

is there any possibility to refrain from calling a pool which is chlorinated by conversion of NaCl into Cl a "saltwater pool'?

p.s. saltwater pools do exist, but they don't need chlorination

[Nawtilus]

ok, just for you, lets change the worldwide recognised name to.....NaclCl pool.... or a 'conversion pool' ...or a nac'd pool...

[Chang_paarp]

is there any possibility to refrain from calling a pool which is chlorinated by conversion of NaCl into Cl a "saltwater pool'?

p.s. saltwater pools do exist, but they don't need chlorination

Sorry the marketing department have got there first.

It was one of the bigger challenges when in working a pool shop to explain to people that the sanitation method their pool used was chlorine, made from the salt.

"You need to check for chlorine in your pool to make sure it is safe to swim in." *health dept rules

"No I don't it is a salt water pool."

"The equipment converts the salt to chlorine"

"NO!!!!! I am allergic to chlorine and I do not get any skin problems in this pool."

"I would recommend reading the book the pool builder gave you when you had the pool installed."

"He said i would not have to add chlorine" ..........

and so the discussion went.

Proper salt water pools do exist as you said, but most people do not like the level of salt needed. Added to that some health departments will not accredit it as a method of sanitation for the pool.

[chownah]

My friend has a salt water pool. It does not have any equipment to extract chlorine from the salt. The pool is only very slightly salty to the taste....very very dilute when compared to ocean water. His pool maintenance person adds some disinfectant powder (perhaps some kind of chlorine I guess) to the water and my friend says that the amount needed for his salt water pool is much much less than what would be needed for a freshwater pool.

Chownah

[rick625]

Has any body got a salt water pool? if so can they advice of anybody who can "install\convert" a pool.

Thanks

I used P&N Pool Shop Co. LTD. A retired expat owns the company. I believe he only works in the Patttay, Chonburi area though. He can build or convert a pool to a saltwater pool. It takes about 40 - 60K Baht and three hours for the conversion. You will save endless amounts of time and money. I always have neighbors asking about mine.