Democracy claim by faithful followers to save Dhammachayo is skeptical



BANGKOK: -- The government spokesman questioned the motive of Phra Dhammachayo's faithful followers when they cited the country's undemocratic rule as reason to protect him.

Government spokesman Maj Gen Sansern Kaewkamnerd said he was sceptical about the motive of these followers after they issued a statement citing abnormal political situation and undemocratic rule as new reason to shield the abbot.

Such reason cited by these followers to protect the abbot and reject the justice system was beyond expectations, the spokesman said.

He recalled that authorities have treated the case against the abbot straightly and with honour, without resorting to enforce special power.

He said although the country has not yet returned to democracy as previously experienced by the people, but in reality democracy in the country is no less than any free country when law can function and is enforced equally with all people.

The government spokesman said every citizen has to come under the same law and whoever commits wrongdoing will be punished equally by law with no exemption.

Corrupt politician who was never arrested in the past is now punished, fined and jailed by laws under this new era, he said.

He then asked if it is democratic if one can be allowed to be above the law, and to use his network to protect him despite of his guilts.

He said Dhammakaya has long been suspected of inclining to politics but all has been denied.

But the reason cited by followers to spare the abbot from arrest has now raised public suspicion of its political inclination, he added.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/democracy-claim-faithful-followers-save-dhammachayo-skeptical/


-- Thai PBS 2016-06-17

"The government spokesman said every citizen has to come under the same law and whoever commits wrongdoing will be punished equally by law with no exemption"

Interesting game of BS wars between the rich monk and the government.

When the junta spokesman says, “… although the country has not yet returned to democracy as previously experienced by the people, but in reality democracy in the country is no less than any free country when law can function and is enforced equally with all people…”, anything that Phra Dhammachayo and his lackeys may say or do is only ever going to be a supporting act by comparison.

Edited June 17, 201610 yr by waldroj

Playing the political card is dangerous, and clever; maybe now we get down to the nitty-gritty. Lots of poncing about, and posturing, on both sides so far. This was never really about a corrupt monk was it, Christ they're 2 a penny in Thailand.

You won't get Democracy while there is a military Junta in Place ,depending on the situation you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power , and protecting anyone by a large crowd someone who has broken the law is not acting within the bounds of a Democracy in place, what you are performing is civil disobedience, If you so desire a Democracy earlier than planned by the Junta , then you must make your own special arrangements......................................

Well, the law can function and be enforced equally with all people but the problem is that, in a rigidly heirarchical country, some people are much more equal than others.

You won't get Democracy while there is a military Junta in Place ,depending on the situation you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power , and protecting anyone by a large crowd someone who has broken the law is not acting within the bounds of a Democracy in place, what you are performing is civil disobedience, If you so desire a Democracy earlier than planned by the Junta , then you must make your own special arrangements......................................

"you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power"

Interesting. I presume you are saying the abbot won't get justice because of his close links to the Shinawatras. If so, do you think the people he helped rob would get justice under a Shinawatra democratic government?

This large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law; is it still civil disobedience when they are more than half the voters?

What if a large crowd, less than half the voters, are insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?

You won't get Democracy while there is a military Junta in Place ,depending on the situation you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power , and protecting anyone by a large crowd someone who has broken the law is not acting within the bounds of a Democracy in place, what you are performing is civil disobedience, If you so desire a Democracy earlier than planned by the Junta , then you must make your own special arrangements......................................

"you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power"

Interesting. I presume you are saying the abbot won't get justice because of his close links to the Shinawatras. If so, do you think the people he helped rob would get justice under a Shinawatra democratic government?

This large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law; is it still civil disobedience when they are more than half the voters?

What if a large crowd, less than half the voters, are insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?

Hey Fanboy,

"Large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law", kind brings back memories of Suthep just before the coup doesn't it.

Regards.

Not taking sides because both are full of it, but they have a point. Those who now cry hardest about the rule of law where happily breaking it during the protests and coup, and cheering on the perversion of the law by the courts to protect the PDRC.

True in a Democracy the abbot would have been tried and in jail by now and his followers would have been jailed too.

True in a Democracy the abbot would have been tried and in jail by now and his followers would have been jailed too.

Which democracy would that be? The first reports of the fraud were in July 2013.

http://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews/dsi-to-investigate-12-billion-baht-fraud-by-credit-union

The coup was more than 10 months later, 22May14. In that 10 months, IIRC, not one mention of the billions of baht passing through the hands of someone's little mate.

You won't get Democracy while there is a military Junta in Place ,depending on the situation you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power , and protecting anyone by a large crowd someone who has broken the law is not acting within the bounds of a Democracy in place, what you are performing is civil disobedience, If you so desire a Democracy earlier than planned by the Junta , then you must make your own special arrangements......................................

"you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power"

Interesting. I presume you are saying the abbot won't get justice because of his close links to the Shinawatras. If so, do you think the people he helped rob would get justice under a Shinawatra democratic government?

This large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law; is it still civil disobedience when they are more than half the voters?

What if a large crowd, less than half the voters, are insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?

Hey Fanboy,

"Large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law", kind brings back memories of Suthep just before the coup doesn't it.

Regards.

Yes sycophant, it does. As does "large crowd......... insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?"

I know its inconvenient, but remember that being elected doesn't put you above the law, even if your name is Shinawatra.

You won't get Democracy while there is a military Junta in Place ,depending on the situation you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power , and protecting anyone by a large crowd someone who has broken the law is not acting within the bounds of a Democracy in place, what you are performing is civil disobedience, If you so desire a Democracy earlier than planned by the Junta , then you must make your own special arrangements......................................

"you won't get proper justice while there is a Junta in power"

Interesting. I presume you are saying the abbot won't get justice because of his close links to the Shinawatras. If so, do you think the people he helped rob would get justice under a Shinawatra democratic government?

This large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law; is it still civil disobedience when they are more than half the voters?

What if a large crowd, less than half the voters, are insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?

Hey Fanboy,

"Large crowd protecting someone who has broken the law", kind brings back memories of Suthep just before the coup doesn't it.

Regards.

Yes sycophant, it does. As does "large crowd......... insisting that someone who has broken the law is prosecuted?"

I know its inconvenient, but remember that being elected doesn't put you above the law, even if your name is Shinawatra.

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

So which is more important to you; that the abbot be prosecuted without any risk of political bias, or that the 53,000 members of the credit union he helped plunder see the offenders prosecuted?

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

So which is more important to you; that the abbot be prosecuted without any risk of political bias, or that the 53,000 members of the credit union he helped plunder see the offenders prosecuted?

Now that is an interesting question.

In the US, we would say:

- There is a rule of law; there is no law outside the law

- Accused are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

- Justice is "blind" and must be unbiased

So, considering Thailand has a police force, prosecutors, and a court system, the required burden is on the State to conduct their case in an unbiased manner. If they can't do that, then they need to fix that problem.

One start would be to repeal the provision of the interim Constitution granting the leaders (and all of their subordinates by delegation of authority) a blanket amnesty in all matters past, present and future. This provision is the very definition of injustice. How can the people have any faith in the State under these conditions?

Don't misconstrue my remarks; it could very well be that the Abbot and others are guilty of money laundering and fraud. However, the Thai's have committed themselves to a functioning justice system. There are no shortcuts.

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

So which is more important to you; that the abbot be prosecuted without any risk of political bias, or that the 53,000 members of the credit union he helped plunder see the offenders prosecuted?

I would say its more important that the 70 million citizens of Thailand see the treasonous coupmakers prosecuted and jailed for their plundering, wouldn't you?

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

So which is more important to you; that the abbot be prosecuted without any risk of political bias, or that the 53,000 members of the credit union he helped plunder see the offenders prosecuted?

I confess to not following the details of this case, and that it is complex and nuanced.

I am under the impression that Supachai embezzled ~ 12 billion baht from the KCUC, perhaps over a number of years.

Supachai pled down to 16 years, from 32 years.

Further, I am under the impression that any donations made by Supachai to Wat Dhammakaya/ dhammachayo (~ 684 million baht) were returned to KCUC, to their satisfaction.

I do not know where the other 11-ish billion baht is, I do find it interesting that know one seems that intent on following that money?

Complaints were made to the DSI for many, many years, re: shenanigans at KCUC, which were not actively investigated.

I understand that there is a lot of hatred within Thailand: rich/poor, landed gentry/landless serfs, Hakka/Hokkien/Teo Chew,/Hainan, red/yellow, green/red, buddhist/muslim, and the fissures within Thai Theravada buddhism (maha nikaya, thammayut nikaya, forrest) mirror the general societal hatred. This hatred seems to be driving the Kingdom to the precipice.

I honestly do not know if dhammachayo, or the temple honchos, knew the "donations" were the result of embezzlement? The answer to this question would obviously support or refute any money laundering charges.

Do I think the temple or abbot were involved in embezzlement? No.

Forgetting the political angle to this case, and that's hard to do given the current climate, perhaps the middle path is best. Maybe the authorities, or those few pressing this case for their advantage/revenge, should let the charges against the abbot slide?

Edited June 18, 201610 yr by mtls2005

When did Buddha teaches Democracy?

When did Buddha teaches Democracy?

Interesting reading here:

http://www.bps.lk/olib/bl/bl017.pdf

I would summarize: there is great compatibility, in theory and practice, between the teachings of Buddha and many tenets of democracy. Much less so for authoritarian rule, or corruption and abuse of power in a government of any kind.

As for the rest of the money that was embezzled by this bank guy, I read the Thai red cross received some of it. It was just a comment on a reliable twitter poster's page. Does anyone have a link to the red cross part of this story ?

Too true... only the military and elites are immune from the law over here.

So which is more important to you; that the abbot be prosecuted without any risk of political bias, or that the 53,000 members of the credit union he helped plunder see the offenders prosecuted?

I would say its more important that the 70 million citizens of Thailand see the treasonous coupmakers prosecuted and jailed for their plundering, wouldn't you?

Yes, you would. Because you would rather push your agenda than discuss the topic at hand.

When did Buddha teaches Democracy?

Interesting reading here:

http://www.bps.lk/olib/bl/bl017.pdf

I would summarize: there is great compatibility, in theory and practice, between the teachings of Buddha and many tenets of democracy. Much less so for authoritarian rule, or corruption and abuse of power in a government of any kind.

Try placing dates on these ideas...

halloween, you seem to know about this. What other groups got money from the bank employee? Are they being prosecuted?

halloween, you seem to know about this. What other groups got money from the bank employee? Are they being prosecuted?

Sorry, you've got the wrong poster for that.

When did Buddha teaches Democracy?

Interesting reading here:

http://www.bps.lk/olib/bl/bl017.pdf

I would summarize: there is great compatibility, in theory and practice, between the teachings of Buddha and many tenets of democracy. Much less so for authoritarian rule, or corruption and abuse of power in a government of any kind.

Try placing dates on these ideas...

Are we having a guessing game about your meaning?

Funny reading some of these comments.

it was earlier reported in a certain newspaper that he bulk of these supporters are middle to upper class people from Bangkok.

A well known stronghold of the man from Dubai (not).

Now all of a sudden they have mentioned democracy and the context of posts shifts from the actual crime(s) to the new "fact" that this is being orchestrated from outside.

Really?

Replying to smarter than you-

So can every suspect in police custody deny the police and court's authority to be arrested on the grounds there is no democracy in Thailand? Suspected murderers, rapists, drug dealers and thieves, the last category being the one Thammachayo belongs to.

Is it okay with you if they all resist arrest using this argument? The accusations against him are criminal not political.

Regarding the other poster's belief Thaksin is not in cahoots with Thammachayo, well why do you think every red shirt leader vehemently defends Thammachayo? It certainly isn't because he claimed to have been sent back to this world by Steve Jobs to finish his task.

When did Buddha teaches Democracy?

Interesting reading here:

http://www.bps.lk/olib/bl/bl017.pdf

I would summarize: there is great compatibility, in theory and practice, between the teachings of Buddha and many tenets of democracy. Much less so for authoritarian rule, or corruption and abuse of power in a government of any kind.

Try placing dates on these ideas...

Are we having a guessing game about your meaning?

You probably need to guess hard when you have a poor grasp of world history.

Which came to the world first? Buddhism or Democracy? How many centuries apart?

Edited June 18, 201610 yr by trogers

it was earlier reported in a certain newspaper that he bulk of these supporters are middle to upper class people from Bangkok.

Not exactly. This sect's robes seem more tinged reddish-orange, than yellowish-orange, in the local political/buddhist chromatics.

The accusations against him are criminal not political.

Well, that's how it might look to you, but I think even the yellowist of junta huggers would admit this case is more political, or even religious, than criminal, if they were being honest.

You probably need to guess hard when you have a poor grasp of world history.

Which came to the world first? Buddhism or Democracy? How many centuries apart?

Interestingly, both pretty much simultaneously - around the 6th century BCE.