THAIPHUKET Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Better read this of today´s Blommberg http://goo.gl/ekqdXn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Previous leading machines depended on US-designed chips More Chinese supercomputers in top 500 than US for first time Share on FacebookShare on Twitter In a threat to U.S. technology dominance, the world’s fastest supercomputer is powered by Chinese-designed semiconductors for the first time. It’s a breakthrough for China’s attempts to reduce dependence on imported technology. The Sunway TaihuLight supercomputer, located at the state-funded Chinese Supercomputing Center in Wuxi, Jiangsu province, is more than twice as powerful as the previous winner, according to TOP500, a research organization that compiles the rankings twice a year. The machine is powered by a SW26010 processor designed by Shanghai High Performance IC Design Center, TOP500 said Monday. "It’s not based on an existing architecture. They built it themselves," said Jack Dongarra, a professor at the University of Tennessee and creator of the measurement method used by TOP500. "This is a system that has Chinese processors." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I'll start worrying when they can build a toilet that doesn't "announce" itself from 50 meters away- 150 meters on a hot, windless day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 No doubts there but I wonder what the US have got under Fort Meade and Langley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 No doubts there but I wonder what the US have got under Fort Meade and Langley. Septic systems that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Previous leading machines depended on US-designed chips More Chinese supercomputers in top 500 than US for first time Share on FacebookShare on Twitter In a threat to U.S. technology dominance, the world’s fastest supercomputer is powered by Chinese-designed semiconductors for the first time. It’s a breakthrough for China’s attempts to reduce dependence on imported technology. The Sunway TaihuLight supercomputer, located at the state-funded Chinese Supercomputing Center in Wuxi, Jiangsu province, is more than twice as powerful as the previous winner, according to TOP500, a research organization that compiles the rankings twice a year. The machine is powered by a SW26010 processor designed by Shanghai High Performance IC Design Center, TOP500 said Monday. "It’s not based on an existing architecture. They built it themselves," said Jack Dongarra, a professor at the University of Tennessee and creator of the measurement method used by TOP500. "This is a system that has Chinese processors." Drive in a Chinese high speed train and if survived, please report back. Thank you very much for your consideration. China copies freaking everything, but nothing is good. And I mean nothing...wait, plenty of girls are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losworld Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 They are building pretty decent chips now. Have a look at mediatek processors in phone which are priced lower than qualcom and intel chips yet perform quite well and arent' so prone to heating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muratremix Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 They are building pretty decent chips now. Have a look at mediatek processors in phone which are priced lower than qualcom and intel chips yet perform quite well and arent' so prone to heating. Mediatek uses Arm IP. Also, it is Taiwanese, not chinese company. I doubt this supercomputer uses china designed (arm / mips like) cpu. And with 1 million cpu cores, of course it'll provide raw power. Give me 5 billion dollars and I can build even faster one. More cpu / gpu = faster supercomputer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunBENQ Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) So many petaflops at the met offices worldwide and still no reliable weather report Brute force leads to nothing without human brains. 10 years ago I had to deal with young Chinese "software engineers". They had the level of C++ programmers/coders from a training course to western standards. Much must have improved if they are on level today. Not saying it's not possible. Edited June 20, 2016 by KhunBENQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 What you all are saying, a few even a bit more substantiated then most that 1. Bloomberg report is utter nonsense 2. that the alleged buyers of Chinese Super Computers simply have no clue what they are buying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannig Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) I think that you get what you pay for in China. Plenty of very cheap workforce, plenty of companies building cheap stuff meaning crap produced and robots who learn the Microsoft, Cisco etc. certification books by heart but have precisely zero ability for structured thinking and creativity. I've worked with these, I know them. On the other hand, given unlimited funding (i.e. state-funded), I'm sure that the Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. Edited June 20, 2016 by Lannig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 That´s exactly it Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. The Will matters not how one gets there. We used to ridicule with the same arogance Japanese Cars and where are we today??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Bear in mind that most of China's technology is stolen from the West. They are our generations version of "Jap Copy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Sea battle of Marathon, Persian Invasion of Greece 490BC Invading, plundering, slaughtering, 40,000 years of Imperialism unabated Tactics are the same, means have changed Cyber Wars will cause different casualties, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Previous leading machines depended on US-designed chips More Chinese supercomputers in top 500 than US for first time Share on FacebookShare on Twitter In a threat to U.S. technology dominance, the world’s fastest supercomputer is powered by Chinese-designed semiconductors for the first time. It’s a breakthrough for China’s attempts to reduce dependence on imported technology. The Sunway TaihuLight supercomputer, located at the state-funded Chinese Supercomputing Center in Wuxi, Jiangsu province, is more than twice as powerful as the previous winner, according to TOP500, a research organization that compiles the rankings twice a year. The machine is powered by a SW26010 processor designed by Shanghai High Performance IC Design Center, TOP500 said Monday. "It’s not based on an existing architecture. They built it themselves," said Jack Dongarra, a professor at the University of Tennessee and creator of the measurement method used by TOP500. "This is a system that has Chinese processors." Drive in a Chinese high speed train and if survived, please report back. Thank you very much for your consideration. China copies freaking everything, but nothing is good. And I mean nothing...wait, plenty of girls are good. So you have been in a Chinese high speed train? Sent to via a Chinese made phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I think that you get what you pay for in China. Plenty of very cheap workforce, plenty of companies building cheap stuff meaning crap produced and robots who learn the Microsoft, Cisco etc. certification books by heart but have precisely zero ability for structured thinking and creativity. I've worked with these, I know them. On the other hand, given unlimited funding (i.e. state-funded), I'm sure that the Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. You may actually be surprised at the "cheap" work force. Many Chinese companies in labour intensive industries are actually relocating to Africa because labour costs are on the rise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannig Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I think that you get what you pay for in China. Plenty of very cheap workforce, plenty of companies building cheap stuff meaning crap produced and robots who learn the Microsoft, Cisco etc. certification books by heart but have precisely zero ability for structured thinking and creativity. I've worked with these, I know them. On the other hand, given unlimited funding (i.e. state-funded), I'm sure that the Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. You may actually be surprised at the "cheap" work force. Many Chinese companies in labour intensive industries are actually relocating to Africa because labour costs are on the rise! I know - but not much in the IT sector, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Casualbiker is right It´s time to throw away the old playbook. Welcome to the new era. The country with the lowest manufacturing costs, we found, is not China. It’s Indonesia, then India, Mexico, and Thailand. China comes next—with Taiwan’s costs just a tad higher and the U.S.’s a bit more than that, ranking America No. 7 in our study. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-25/china-vs-dot-the-u-dot-s-dot-its-just-as-cheap-to-make-goods-in-the-usa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannig Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Err... the topic was about IT capabilities, not slave unskilled workforce for factories. Aren't we drifting a bit here? @Thaiphuket: how about a "Don't use a silly bold and enormous font" button? Edited June 22, 2016 by Lannig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Hint well taken= @Thaiphuket: how about a "Don't use a silly bold and enormous font" button? And the subject is IT Chinese capabilities and economic competitiveness in general to counter the myth of cheap as the only factor detached from sociological aspects abstract and therefore unemotional Edited June 22, 2016 by THAIPHUKET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannig Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Back to the topic of that Chinese supercomputer, in the light of another (now locked) thread started on the subject. It's just a matter of piling up tens of thousands of cells each containing one of their multi-core (260 cores) RISC processors. This paper gives some insight: http://www.netlib.org/utk/people/JackDongarra/PAPERS/sunway-report-2016.pdf Although the overall computing power obtained is impressive, I see no real technological breakthrough there. The Sunway processor itself has nothing that makes it like a generation ahead of a Xeon Phi CPU (see table 4 in the paper) and the interconnects... well, PCI-E hardly is rocket science. In the end, it's really the amount of floor space and electrical power you can get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 With a population of over 1.357 billion (2013), is it correct to judge the whole country by a few (comparatively) that one meets on the road? Archaeological evidence suggests that early hominids inhabited China between 250,000 and 2.24 million years ago. China was a world leader in science and technology until the Ming Dynasty. Ancient Chinese discoveries and inventions, such as papermaking, printing, the compass, and gunpowder (the Four Great Inventions), later became widespread in Asia and Europe. Chinese mathematicians were the first to use negative numbers... It cant be all that bad after all, isn't it? (But of course no one likes someone who steps on ones toes, obviously!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Lannig gives a substantive reply http://www.netlib.org/utk/people/JackDongarra/PAPERS/sunway-report-2016.pdf Which I have not digested yet but I assume his argument is right, it´s just adding chips, in a way. But this is nothing new as soon as technological supremacy can be copied the cheaper producer will win. If Thai farmers let the rice quality drop plus labor becomes expensive, Vietnam will gain market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Thank you RAVIP. That´s what I love, one thought leading to the next, causing to dig deeper into a subject away from flat statements = Cheap, everything just copied from the West. Hopefully eliminate prejudices Sorry for spacing! It is especially important to emphasize how China , the world technological power between 1100 and 1800, made the West’s emergence possible. As early as 1078, China was the world’s major producer of steel (125,000 tons); whereas Britain in 1788 produced 76,000 tons. China was the world’s leader in technical innovations in textile manufacturing, seven centuries before Britain ’s 18th century “textile revolution”. In 1588 the largest English ships displaced 400 tons, China ’s 3,000 tons. And so on.......... Military colonization of Asia by the West caused the end Source= John Hobson, The Eastern Origins of Western Civilization ( Cambridge UK : Cambridge University Press 2004) A real eye-opener http://goo.gl/nXHeD4 China: Rise, Fall and Re-Emergence as a Global PowerJames Petras is a retired Professor of Sociology at Binghamton University in Binghamton, New York and adjunct professor at Saint Mary's University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseTheBass Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 That´s exactly it Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. The Will matters not how one gets there. We used to ridicule with the same arogance Japanese Cars and where are we today??? Buying Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 That´s exactly it Chinese are able to do things at least at good as the best we can do in the West. The Will matters not how one gets there. We used to ridicule with the same arogance Japanese Cars and where are we today??? Buying Ford. Well more like Toyota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) What a lot of people don't realise is that with so many manufacturers moving production to China, the situation is ripe for the Chinese to steal intellectual property.I remember when Callaway were stunned at the quality of fake golf clubs on sale in Hong Kong.It turns out their manufacturing partner in China had set an an entire duplicate factory down the road from the original using all the technology being used in the proper one.They are the biggest intellectual property thieves on the planet, so it's not unexpected that the products they are producing are near to or equal in quality of the originals. Edited June 24, 2016 by Chicog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 A number of off-topic and flame posts have been removed from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Drive in a Chinese high speed train and if survived, please report back. Thank you very much for your consideration. I did a couple of time. Fast, reliable, comfortable, on time. Overall a great experience. And it's not only in computer science that Chinese are distancing their western counterparts Here an article from Nature : From ancient DNA to neutrinos and neuroscience, top researchers in China are making big impacts — and raising their country’s standing in science .... http://www.nature.com/news/science-stars-of-china-1.20113?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAIPHUKET Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 Very valuable contribution Johnny, the Nature article shows really the huge step taken by Chinese scientists. Such step made possible by the political willpower of the establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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