E-cigarettes - "light up" and face years in jail

[DrTuner]

However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

Ok, well let me be of some assistance to you then, never buy a Tesla:

Same tech.

[Chicog]

Well since we're sharing links, here's the obvious starting point and the right forum: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

On this matter, here's how I see what happened:

- Some one, a Thai probably, asked the "Ask Ladycops" facebook if vaping is illegal in Thailand

- The keepers of the facebook page, ladies or not, referred the question up

- To keep safe, some higher rank cop rattled every single rule he could find, most related to the late shisha ban

- The rattlings were put on the facebook page

- The Daily News picked the facebook post

- TVF picked Daily News's article

- Discussion ensued on TVF

- I got something like 20 likes on it, making me closer to 3k, which as I understand makes me a demigod around here

Summa summarum: Some police officer gave a list of rules that might apply, but in reality will very rarely be enforced as is the custom in Thailand.

It's going to piss off the fake cops on Suk, I'd find it highly amusing to have one of them following me around waiting for me to drop the cigarette butt!

[mommysboy]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

We're talking the same attendant risk with anything using this type of battery. I imagine millions to one. If you consider them risky, also produce a list which includes mobile phones for instance.

[Songlaw]

These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough

Yes they can, yes they are. Even the cheapest variable wattage mods have overcharging and short circuit protection, with the correct airflow inside to keep the battery temperatures in check. Buy authentic and not knock-offs.

Unless you are talking of the e-liquid, which is not a part of the "device", unless it's one of those archaic ciggy looking thingies.

Please read my post carefully. I am referring to the vulnerabilities of both the delivery devices and the cartridges. I stand by everything stated, for reasons that ought be obvious to anyone, but especially to someone living in LOS. Suffice it to say that the degree of quality control necessary to safeguard a product of this nature, for all intents and purposes, would not survive a feasibility study. Not to mention that even were it possible to manufacture this as a 'hospital grade' product, it would remain cost prohibitive for the majority of global citizenry. Knock-offs would then still make up the lion's share of vaporizers in actual circulation. Your purported safeguards, as such, would be essentially meaningless.

[DrTuner]

The explosion: you take a substandard battery, or a standard one driven out of specifications, which will either vent, if properly designed, or explode. #1: don't buy substandard batteries. If the battery vents, make sure your mod containing the battery has appropriate holes to allow the gases to escape. That's #2.

If you take a poorly designed mechanical mod, which is basically a metal tube with a switch, not having venting capabilities, you have created an explosive. The venting gases will create a pressure inside the metal tube, forcing the metal parts to give, sometimes that being the top cap shot into your mouth. Don't buy poorly designed mech mods. #2 again.

Use a mod with correct safeguards and if it gets hot, discard in a dry place a few meters away. The risk must be something like 1/1000000. The e-cig forum has almost 17M posts, some of them reviewing these hazards, read them through.

Now, if you decide Li-Ion tech in dangerous, you better move into a cave. At any given time in current society, you are in proximity of batteries using that tech.

[user99]

I used to smoke a pack or two daily and switched to e-cigs about 2 years ago,other people (smokers) told me all the horror stories about them and my response would be " can't be as bad as tobacco ".

Its very possible that governments and tobacco companies are scaremongering because of revenue drops, in some countries the tax on a pack can be 70%

Take a look this link or copy and paste into youtube, its a well know British channel that aired the doc.

They do warn against some flavours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPrei3iGuTU

[mommysboy]

These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough

Yes they can, yes they are. Even the cheapest variable wattage mods have overcharging and short circuit protection, with the correct airflow inside to keep the battery temperatures in check. Buy authentic and not knock-offs.

Unless you are talking of the e-liquid, which is not a part of the "device", unless it's one of those archaic ciggy looking thingies.

Please read my post carefully. I am referring to the vulnerabilities of both the delivery devices and the cartridges. I stand by everything stated, for reasons that ought be obvious to anyone, but especially to someone living in LOS. Suffice it to say that the degree of quality control necessary to safeguard a product of this nature, for all intents and purposes, would not survive a feasibility study. Not to mention that even were it possible to manufacture this as a 'hospital grade' product, it would remain cost prohibitive for the majority of global citizenry. Knock-offs would then still make up the lion's share of vaporizers in actual circulation. Your purported safeguards, as such, would be essentially meaningless.

I'm sure you have a point. Most incidents occur while the battery is charging and are often linked to incompatible chargers. The rest seem to be connected to 'mods', which refers to modifications such as stacked batteries, and particular designs such as the twist (whatever that is). There have been isolated reports of batteries exploding in pockets, and rarely in the mouth of users. Nearly all reports mention the possibility of misuse. Small kits such as egoT have batteries which are unlikely to cause serious damage.

[SiSePuede419]

"Nicotine on it's own is not carcinogenic"

Only an drug addict would claim that.

Nicotine is more toxic than cyanide.

555

You appear to be saying that cyanide is carcinogenic, but is this what you want to say?

"Although there is insufficient evidence to classify nicotine as a carcinogen, there is an ongoing debate about whether it functions as a tumor promoter."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

Both drug addicts and tobacco companies are trying to KEEP HOPE ALIVE that nicotine isn't carcinogenic.

After all, only 1 out of 4 cigarette smokers die a slow, painful death from lung cancer (only hurts when you breathe).

Maybe you'll end up in the lucky 75% that will die of other causes before the lung cancer kicks in?

Brilliant, all right, 555+

[rwdrwdrwd]

The quote you just posted emphasises that nicotine has not been proven to be carcinogenic, nor to cause tumours.

Don't you think quite a few scientists have been trying to prove this over the last few decades? Why no success? They have had no problem proving that other substances are and publicising the fact, including many of the other constituents of tobacco.

http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm297786.htm

Edited June 22, 2016 by rwdrwdrwd

[The Grumpy Vaper]

"Nicotine is more toxic than cyanide."

​Lol at this scaremongering rubbish.

Yes, nicotine is more toxic than any other poison - depending on the bloody dosage and how it's administered!

Nicotine is lethal at between 0.5 and 1 gram. Nicotine is also present in a hell of a lot of things that we all eat, tomatoes, potatoes, aubergines and most of the edible nightshade family. Should we ban those foods too, make them illegal?

Hello to all btw, I'm new here - should have said that in my first post, please excuse my rudeness.

Edited June 22, 2016 by The Grumpy Vaper

[ukrules]

This 'law' is a stinking pile of horsesh!t which will never, ever be enforced.

It's one of the most stupid things I've read in a long time and I read a lot of things which most people would regard as being pretty stupid...

Edited June 22, 2016 by ukrules

[Tomtomtom69]

that is crazy I know many who puff on a e cig in chiang mai.so if that is illegal.buy a packet of fags and smoking them is ok everywhere.this is thailand

Actually, that is false. Thailand has amongst the strictest anti-smoking laws not only in the developing world, but in the world in general. This may come somewhat as a surprise to many, given the country's laws are so weak in most other areas, such as the enforcement of traffic laws, for example.

However, the evidence is crystal clear - smoking is banned in all public places and I have never once seen a Thai attempt to light up a ciggy in a shopping mall or an indoor restaurant. Even bars and clubs ban smoking now, since 2007. Compliance was already good within the first couple of weeks when that law first came into force, though there may have been the odd person who flouted it.

Nowadays though, compliance is virtually universal. By comparison, go to parts of Europe or China to see just how widespread smoking is and how ineffective enforcement is. In China, about the only places people don't smoke are airports, on board planes, high speed trains, urban buses and shopping malls. Everywhere else, including at hospitals there is usually a layer of acrid smoke floating around. Getting passengers to not smoke on board long distance buses is a full time job for some bus conductors. It's been getting better in recent years but as of 2011 at least, when I last caught long distance buses in China, compliance varied.

[MrTee]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..

what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

[Ace of Pop]

Got it They dont have a Vap Monopoly of Thailand yet, so you must hang on till they do. Jesus kin wept......

[CantSpell]

Stop vaping...

Go buy some Ya Ba

[Catoni]

So a serious mental and physical health problem like Methamphetamine should be legal... ??

However, other than the sub standard and unregulated products that Suradit69 pointed out in the FDA study (Don't vape popcorn, duh...!!), something that poses no major health risk are illegal especially when compared to the standard cigarettes that are proven killers.

And this whole decision was based on one misconception that one e-cig was like 15 normal cigs. Even though you would have to puff on that e-cig all day to get to 15 normal cigs was not considered.

The ignorance is baffling... =0

Teaching in this country and seeing the education system up close and personal does account for the mentality, ignorance, an incompetence seen in officially held positions.

It seems that more than half of this country sleeps its way through life and just does whatever it feels like at the moment without any real analysis or forethought in regards to actual planning and research.

Throwing "Face" out the window and learning a little humility, learning to save dignity, would go a long way here... !!

>"And the argument about tobacco companies does not sit with me. E-cig products with nicotine in them must get it from somewhere and that is most likely extracted from tobacco unless >there is another way I am not aware of... ??"

Nicotine for E-cigarettes is extracted and distilled from tobacco plants.

Nicotine is an alkaloid found in the nightshade family of plants (Solanaceae), predominantly in tobacco, and in lower quantities in tomato, potato, eggplant (aubergine), and green pepper.

Nicotine alkaloids are also found in the leaves of the coca plant.

Synthetic nicotine can be produced in the lab, but is not cost effective to produce this way. Prohibitively expensive.

[Ace of Pop]

It's clear Nicotine would not be needed if Humans stopped interfering.. others lives so much that they need a Smoke or a[emoji482]

[Songlaw]

However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

Ok, well let me be of some assistance to you then, never buy a Tesla:

Same tech.

Duly noted, and done. Like we needed another reason not to buy an absurdly overpriced and woefully underdeveloped concept car. However, to repay the favor, I might suggest not looking to Detroit for your next laptop either...

[Songlaw]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..

what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

I'll make a deal with you. Give me a list of the words upon which you are hung, and I will break them down for you, that is, unless of course, it's all of them. After all, I am not a young man, and time is at a premium. "Wittering," really?

[oldsailor35]

A mentally unstable justice system!

No one can analise the Thai reasoning, they cannot themselves , and now that the Thai military have control, it is beyond reason.

[sambum]

Was sitting at the beach the other day and a couple of Thai guys had these things blowing smelly (to me it smelt awful) smoke (I know its vapor but it looks like smoke) all around the place. It was very inconsiderate of them and disturbing not only to me and my mate but others around us. Yes they should be banned from public places not because of what they are but because of what they do. Same goes for those stinky BBQ pork 3 wheelers where the vendors wear masks to protect them from the smoke but are quite happy for the general public to suffer with it.

*You were sitting on the beach the other day .... sooo, a wide open space with (probably) sea breezes?

*A couple of guys .... that's an awful lot of people.

*Blowing smelly smoke all around the place .... hmmm, a couple of guys in a wide open space smoking e-cigs (which don't put out much smoke, btw - I know this for a fact)????

This picture Mr Keesters is painting is seriously messed up, and I'm calling BS. The only thing that could have created this scenario is a shisha (or whatever it's called).

**BTW, it should be noted that half or more of the liquids I see on sale are non-nicotine - I started on e-cigs with nicotine added, and then reduced until I was smoking non-nicotine liquid. AND ... tah-dah, Mr Keesters, it didn't stink up my enclosed living room.

I'm so sick and tired of the bad press that e-cigs are getting. They're an excellent aid to quitting tobacco - the only real worry is what's in the liquids. So, simple answer - produce safe liquids under licence. Do us all a favor.

(Actually, there is a second worry - that of inhaling vapor into the lungs - some issues there, I believe - but that's a story for another day.)

As you were not there you would know nothing of the situation and your comments are therefore BS. Hardly a wide open space when you're jam packed into chairs where the backs touch each other.

And little breeze as it was sunny and the vendors had put up umbrellas to shade the area but unfortunately they stopped any breeze from the sea.

A couple of guys on the crowded table next to me. It only takes one idiot to spoil it for many others. In this case it was TWO idiots. Perhaps THREE if we count you.

Blowing smelly smoke (yes it did smell, my nose told me so (I know that for a fact)

The picture you are painting is the messed up one where a small number of people can ruin many others experiences. SELFISH SELFISH. Perhaps that is you too.

And until the liquids are safe then they should perhaps be banned.

BTW I was a smoker for many years at two packets a day until I quit cold-turkey 6 years ago. No patches, no e-ciggies, no gum, no nothing just pure will power.

Your last sentence explains everything about your lack of tolerance, and your confrontational attitude, and personal attacks, which by the way are frowned on by the Mods! e.g.

" It only takes one idiot to spoil it for many others. In this case it was TWO idiots. Perhaps THREE if we count you." - - - comment totally uncalled for

"Blowing smelly smoke (yes it did smell, my nose told me so (I know that for a fact)"

It wasn't "smelly smoke", it was vapour - that's why they call it "vaping" and just because it looks like smoke doesn't make it smoke! Dry ice is used frequently by performers on stage as an effect for their performance, and it looks like smoke - but it isn't, and if it was, the smoke alarms would be set off!

"the vendors had put up umbrellas to shade the area but unfortunately they stopped any breeze from the sea."

Must have been b****y big umbrellas!

I have seen your lack of tolerance before, and it is true what they say that "reformed smokers are the worst" - you have just proved it, and your smug closing sentence does nothing to make you a bigger or better man - in my eyes anyway. I am also a reformed smoker - 1 to 2 packets a day for more than 50 years, and I used patches for one week, and then no "aids". I have now been stopped for a few years, but I have nothing but sympathy for those that are trying to quit and finding it hard, and are trying to do so with whatever means are available to them.

And they don't need "SELFISH, SELFISH" intolerant people like yourself even getting on at them when they are in the open air - on a beach for goodness sake, (Doesn't sound like an enjoyable experience anyway, being packed in like sardines the way you describe it!) You'd probably even complain if you walked to the top of a mountain and there was someone vaping there!

Edited June 25, 2016 by sambum

[MrTee]

"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..

what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

I'll make a deal with you. Give me a list of the words upon which you are hung, and I will break them down for you, that is, unless of course, it's all of them. After all, I am not a young man, and time is at a premium. "Wittering," really?

Have a lay down and stop worrying about things you clearly do not understand

[EricBerg]

_{New day and a new big laugh. Thailand is becoming more funny than Monty Pyhton and Fawlty Towers. Thailand is amazing and the happy General and his gang continues to make Thailand the worldwide fool. As written amphetamines to be taken off the narcotics list and get in the monkey house for smoking on E- cigarettes. The way to go.}

Spot on. Heaps and heaps of Basil Fawlty like idiots all over the place. Though we now only come as regular visitors the Kingdom is hilarious.

[sambum]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.

Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?

I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.

Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection

My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.

"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..

what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

No wonder they say English is a difficult language to learn! Some people just LURVE to use big words when smaller, simpler ones will do. What's wrong with "None of these gadgets are meant to blow up"?

[spidermike007]

Another in a series of hysterically funny posts about the Thai judicial system. I have been to countless go-go bars, restaurants, and other establishment where the no-smoking signs are clearly visible, and half of the patrons are smoking. I ask the manager about it, and he or she says there is nothing they can do, since the patrons like to smoke. So, for those nitwits to even insinuate that there will be a penalty for e-cigarrette smoking, when they are not even enforcing the ban on real cigarettes, which are far more dangerous, and far more annoying to non-smokers, is funny, sad, pathetic, inane, churlish, and ridiculous, just like anything this administration does, or says.

I suppose the only ones who will ever face years in jail, will be the poorest of the poor. That is always the case here. Only the very poor go to jail. While the red bull heirs, the son of the headman of Sairee beach, on Dark Tao, the daughter of the rich family who mowed down nine people on the highway, the Anna Reese's of the world, and others walk free. Justice? What justice? For whom?

Edited June 26, 2016 by spidermike007

[DrTuner]

For what's it worth, I think vaping indoors should be banned. The vapor lingers longer than smoke and you'll end up with a Turkish bath, the visibility turns to zero. Recipe for hurting yourself by tripping in stairs, etc. At the very minimum have efficient ventilation.

[Songlaw]

"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..

what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

I'll make a deal with you. Give me a list of the words upon which you are hung, and I will break them down for you, that is, unless of course, it's all of them. After all, I am not a young man, and time is at a premium. "Wittering," really?

Have a lay down and stop worrying about things you clearly do not understand

If and when you come up with something I don't/can't understand, I will, in fact, take a 'lay-down.' I suspect it might be a while, based on what I've observed until now. Still waiting for the list, by the way. And seriously, I hope you are having a bit of luck launching your non-incendiary device(s). Especially the torch and hope it/they net you a bundle.

[MJP]

What do they think's in these things? Crack cocaine?

[JHolmesJr]

Vaping eh? I need to try this now.

[Songlaw]

Let's not overlook increasing reports of these things going off like small thermonuclear devices, resulting in explosive burns that range all the way to third degree, with permanent maiming often the outcome. To me, that is the greater concern. These devices simply aren't, and more importantly, can't be engineered safely enough, as 'knock-offs' and quality variance across the different manufacturers/price points on both the apparatus and the cartridges would remain an impenetrable obstacle to any attempts at safety regulation. I would not seek to tell someone what they can or cannot ingest. However, there are just too many irremediable liability issues surrounding the manufacture, sale and use of this product for it to be sanctioned by any consumer protection agency worth its salt.



Wind it in sunshine.. There have been a "few" reports of exploding e-cig devices. and these rare cases can be mostly put down to misuse.

All Lithium battery -ion can, and DO explode. Many phone batteries explode. Are you also calling for all Laptops, Mobile Phones, torches, Fitness devices, etc to be banned or is it just E-cigs that are dangerous?
I had a top of the range tablet that had a global recall related to batteries exploding.
Any device that uses Lithium-Ion batteries can explode, and e-cigs are no expection


My post is neither alarmist, nor inaccurate, Sunshine. None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties, other than perhaps the torch. Absolutely nothing in life is safe. However, some products lend themselves too easily to risk and/or malfeasance. This is certainly one of them.



"None of your false equivalencies have intentional incendiary properties" No none of these device have intentional incendiary properties..
what on earth are you wittering on about?

But hey : malfeasance

In response to Mr. Sambum, who states:

"No wonder they say English is a difficult language to learn! Some people just LURVE to use big words when smaller, simpler ones will do. What's wrong with "None of these gadgets are meant to blow up"?"

There's no particular 'lurve' (love?) involved, Mr. Bum. English is a difficult language to learn purely because of the degree of absurdity embedded within, the consequences of which are evidenced by the degree of mastery found on pretty much any site we encounter on the web. However, this is an English-only forum (per the regs/mods), and no doubt to your never-ending dismay, this is how I happen to speak. Sorry if it has somehow offended your sensibilities, or otherwise caused you discomfiture. As for your final statement, it is technically correct, at least grammatically speaking, but for one minor point; it does not accurately convey what I said. Thanks just the same for attempting to 'dumb it down' for the masses, as there is at least one other that seems to have struggled with the text. Regardless, I of course concede that your final statement is true. as I don't for a second think there was any intent for the aforementioned 'gadgetry' to actually blow up. Doesn't seem to prevent them from doing so, however.