Koh Tao DNA evidence used to condemn Burmese to death tested by an unaccredited lab

[Khun Han]

^The answer's obvious. Any DNA found at the crime scene would be the 'wrong' DNA, so couldn't be tested independently. Nor could it be made available for re-testing at a later date because it would put DNA profiles in the public domain that the RTP (and Somyot in particular) don't want there.

How sure are we that DNA was found in Hannah? All that came forth in court, (other than the hoe, which RTP experts mis-read) is hearsay. As Johnny Cochran might say, "If d'ere ain't no DNA, den d'ere ain't no game to play."

Any one of a number of key factors should have this case thrown out and the defendants released (with compensation for false imprisonment). One example: Hanna's clothes never tested, then went missing. There dozens of others.

I'm quite unsure if there ever was any semen evidence. The police said Hannah was raped, then said she wasn't, then said she was. I was referring to likely DNA evidence in general found at the crime scene, such as on clothing that the police got rid of, the wine bottle (also disposed of) and cigarette butts found at the crime scene (not the ones found further up the beach that were claimed to be evidence). None of this important evidence has been, or ever will be made available for re-testing. And that's because it probably no longer exists (or if it does still exist, it's being kept for a rainy day by somebody high up in the pecking order).

[stephenterry]

^The answer's obvious. Any DNA found at the crime scene would be the 'wrong' DNA, so couldn't be tested independently. Nor could it be made available for re-testing at a later date because it would put DNA profiles in the public domain that the RTP (and Somyot in particular) don't want there.

How sure are we that DNA was found in Hannah? All that came forth in court, (other than the hoe, which RTP experts mis-read) is hearsay. As Johnny Cochran might say, "If d'ere ain't no DNA, den d'ere ain't no game to play."

Any one of a number of key factors should have this case thrown out and the defendants released (with compensation for false imprisonment). One example: Hanna's clothes never tested, then went missing. There dozens of others.

I'm quite unsure if there ever was any semen evidence. The police said Hannah was raped, then said she wasn't, then said she was. I was referring to likely DNA evidence in general found at the crime scene, such as on clothing that the police got rid of, the wine bottle (also disposed of) and cigarette butts found at the crime scene (not the ones found further up the beach that were claimed to be evidence). None of this important evidence has been, or ever will be made available for re-testing. And that's because it probably no longer exists (or if it does still exist, it's being kept for a rainy day by somebody high up in the pecking order).

Re the bold highlight. I wouldn't think anyone high up the pecking order would give a sh*t either way. Migrants are two a penny, on a lower social par with farangs, and Thai officialdom will continue to go on their own sweet way, regardless of foreign interference. If anyone really considers that this case will be re-opened with the current military ruling the country, they'll be p*ssing in the wind.

Can only hope for concessions some 5-10 years down the line, maybe, when a King's pardon occurs.

[Khun Han]

^Sorry, I should've been more specific. I was thinking in terms of somebody high up in the RTP keeping it as potential leverage should they fall on hard times/ go out of favour with the current mob. It's an unlikely scenario, I know, but it's the only circumstance I could think of in which that particular evidence would still exist.

[metisdead]

Off topic obfuscation posts and replies have been removed.

[StealthEnergiser]

Some new information from Ian Yarwood. This should clear up some of the significant matters on accreditation. Ian is talking to APALC the main accreditation body for Thai labs based in Australia. Sent to them yesterday.

Any Updates ?

[Bkk Brian]

Some new information from Ian Yarwood. This should clear up some of the significant matters on accreditation. Ian is talking to APALC the main accreditation body for Thai labs based in Australia. Sent to them yesterday.

Any Updates ?

Ian Yarwood has received a reply but as far as I'm aware this is not being made public yet, I'm under the impression however that Suthon Vongsheree the Director of BLQS has reinforced his earlier statement made to Ian in correspondence. Looking forward to this getting published!

[greenchair]

On 12/7/2016 at 7:52 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Ian Yarwood has received a reply but as far as I'm aware this is not being made public yet, I'm under the impression however that Suthon Vongsheree the Director of BLQS has reinforced his earlier statement made to Ian in correspondence. Looking forward to this getting published!

Maybe it's not being published because there are truths that the defense do not want their donators to hear about. Like the demand for independent testing, that suddenly did an about face after andy talked to the UK coroner. And what kind of a lawyer is Ian yarwood, when he writes his letter based on something he read in the newspaper. Lol

[DiscoDan]

On 13 August 2016 at 6:55 AM, greenchair said:

Maybe it's not being published because there are truths that the defense do not want their donators to hear about. Like the demand for independent testing, that suddenly did an about face after andy talked to the UK coroner. And what kind of a lawyer is Ian yarwood, when he writes his letter based on something he read in the newspaper. Lol

Now over  a month later and Ian still hasn't published the letter just more smoke and mirrors.

 

Just like the person who wrote this article for the Samui times I think its time the farang defense and their activists are investigated and also the accounts from the Koh Tao fundraiser should be made public.

 

http://www.samuitimes.com/the-koh-tao-murders-two-years-on/

 

"One can only hope that the Tuwichian family themselves will investigate the western element of the defence team and figure out why a known and convicted criminal has been given access to a case that affects the reputation of Thailand.  Perhaps they should also question why a human rights activist with an axe to grind against Natural Fruit and Thailand was allowed to be the face of the campaign to prove the Burmese men were innocent,"

[DiscoDan]

Its funny how the people who claimed to want a fair trial failed to mention the police had a new machine that could test dna in a few hours.

 

Here is a rapid dna machine  website for Thailand 

http://www.isciencetech.com/rapid-human-dna-identification-instrument-rapid-hit

 

Dna match was done with a machine not by a person

[Khun Han]

It was pointed out to you a few hours ago that the machine you proclaim cannot do the multiple, mixed sample test that was claimed to have been done on the alleged DNA samples taken from Hannah. Yet, here you are a few hours later, lying through your teeth about it again. Mods, when are you going to remove the habitual liar DiscoDan from this forum? He and his little gang of unsavoury friends disrupt every discussion on the Koh Tao murders with their constant stream of lies and misrepresentations.

[Reigntax]

From the FBI website below. Note, requires human intervention and interpretation.

 

No, the analysis of crime scene (forensic) samples by a Rapid DNA instrument/system would not be compliant with the FBI Director’s Quality Assurance Standards for Forensic DNA Testing Laboratories (“Forensic QAS” Standards 9.4 and 12.2) and is not covered by the Rapid DNA Addendum. The FBI continues to monitor the development of Rapid DNA technology to address the range of crime scene samples. Forensic DNA records that are not compliant with the FBI’s QAS are not permitted to be searched in or uploaded to CODIS.

The FBI established a Rapid DNA Program Office in 2010 to facilitate the development and integration of Rapid DNA technology for use by law enforcement. The Program Office works with the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, the National Institute of Justice, and other federal agencies to ensure the coordinated development of this new technology among federal agencies. The Program Office also works with state and local law enforcement agencies and state bureaus of identification through the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services Division (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board to facilitate the effective and efficient integration of Rapid DNA in the police booking environment.

 

The FBI continues to monitor the development of Rapid DNA technology to address the range of crime scene samples. At this time, these goals do not include the use of Rapid DNA technology on crime scene (forensic) samples because of the differences between forensic and known reference (offender/arrestee) samples. These differences may include the nature or type of sample, typical sample quantity, and potential for reanalysis. A forensic sample may not be amenable to fully automated processing due to limitations in its quality and quantity.

 

While the manufacturers are working on validation of Rapid DNA instruments/systems, the FBI has been identifying and working on resolving issues that will need to be addressed to achieve the goal of using Rapid DNA systems in the booking environment. For example, the DNA Identification Act of 1994 (42 U.S.C. §14132) requires that the DNA records be generated by accredited laboratories in compliance with the FBI Director’s Quality Assurance Standards (QAS). Thus, legislation will be needed in order for DNA records that are generated by Rapid DNA systems outside an accredited laboratory to be uploaded to NDIS.

Within one to two years following passage of the necessary federal legislation, the FBI intends to develop and implement the necessary interfaces for booking stations to access CODIS. During this time, the FBI hopes to implement pilot projects within major metropolitan police departments to test and evaluate the use of Rapid DNA systems and the searching of DNA records through CODIS during the booking process. The FBI Laboratory has been working with the CJIS Division and the CJIS Advisory Policy Board (CJIS APB) Rapid DNA Task Force since 2010 to plan the effective integration of Rapid DNA into booking stations following a change in federal law.

The FBI recognizes that NDIS approval/certification of the systems and training of law enforcement personnel using the NDIS-approved systems must also be resolved so that this new technology is used in a manner that maintains the quality and integrity of CODIS and NDIS.

 

As a consequence of these outstanding issues and the need for legislative changes, it is difficult to estimate when law enforcement agencies will be able to search profiles developed by a Rapid DNA system in CODIS and NDIS. The FBI will continue its collaboration with other law enforcement agencies in the testing and evaluation of the available Rapid DNA systems as well as support for legislative changes necessary for implementation of this technology.

[DiscoDan]

On 8/13/2016 at 6:55 AM, greenchair said:

 

The machine has already been used to convict people by the police in America yes the FBI don't use it but that is irrellevant.

[DiscoDan]

So what are you claiming Khun H that police lied about testing times and lied that they had a machine to do it. Even though that machine is available for sale in Thailand ?

 

DNA results from Hannah came back on the 17th those profiles would have been put in the machines database then swabs from the Burmese were taken popped in the machine and a match was found.

 

As I said If the police lied that they have the machine it will be in the appeal.

[greenchair]

Doesn't matter. the original test was conducted two weeks before they were arrested. As the judge said, it would be impossible to replace their dna with the original test results as the first result was already documented by 3 different sources. That first test used dna from two area of the body of Hannah. The result was in long before they were ever arrested. 

[DiscoDan]

6 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Doesn't matter. the original test was conducted two weeks before they were arrested. As the judge said, it would be impossible to replace their dna with the original test results as the first result was already documented by 3 different sources. That first test used dna from two area of the body of Hannah. The result was in long before they were ever arrested. 

And the odds of creating a dna profile of someone you don't know and that sample matching  is 7.4 billion to 1 it looks like the odds are in the prosecution's favour.

[DiscoDan]

A khaosod journalist recently interviewed the B2 in prison  in the interview WP admits to picking up davids phone on the way home (not sure if this was when he was on his way home at 2am or 4am)

 

So no denial from WP that the phone he picked up was Davids  also no signs of defense appeal the charge of theft.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2016/09/14/injustice-echos-sides-two-years-koh-tao-murders/

 

"Wai Phyo also said, through Zaw Lin, that he picked up the phone on the way back home that night without knowing it belonged to Miller."

[DiscoDan]

On 10 July 2016 at 0:26 AM, Khun Han said:

I'm quite unsure if there ever was any semen evidence. The police said Hannah was raped, then said she wasn't, then said she was. I was referring to likely DNA evidence in general found at the crime scene, such as on clothing that the police got rid of, the wine bottle (also disposed of) and cigarette butts found at the crime scene (not the ones found further up the beach that were claimed to be evidence). None of this important evidence has been, or ever will be made available for re-testing. And that's because it probably no longer exists (or if it does still exist, it's being kept for a rainy day by somebody high up in the pecking order).

 

More lies from Khun Han the thai Autopsy found no sign of rape, the B2  originally confessed to  beating Hannah unconscious before they raped her hence why there were no signs of rape.

 

"The autopsy report indicates that Ms. Witheridge had engaged in sexual intercourse prior to her death, but it is unclear whether the act was consensual or forced. A number of media agencies previously reported that she was raped."

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

A khaosod journalist recently interviewed the B2 in prison  in the interview WP admits to picking up davids phone on the way home (not sure if this was when he was on his way home at 2am or 4am)

 

So no denial from WP that the phone he picked up was Davids  also no signs of defense appeal the charge of theft.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2016/09/14/injustice-echos-sides-two-years-koh-tao-murders/

 

"Wai Phyo also said, through Zaw Lin, that he picked up the phone on the way back home that night without knowing it belonged to Miller."

 

Another basic lie from the serial liar DiscoDan. Wei Phyo admitted to finding a phone. He didn't admit to finding David's phone. Police searches of various Burmese lodgings in the days following the murders uncovered an assortment of lost/stolen phones, including several iphone4s.

[Khun Han]

Where did I mention the Thai autopsy in the post you quoted Dan? Another lie from you. Anyway, for brevity, the Thai autopsy found damage to Hannah's privates that the British autopsy said was caused by the Thai autopsy. Mods, DiscoDan is a total embarrassment to these discussions and this fine forum. Can you please deal with him? Does he actually add anything to ThaiVisa, other than lies to the Koh Tao murder discussions?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Khun Han

[Jai Dee]

Topic closed pending moderation.