Division, confusion as EU rethinks future without Britain

[webfact]

Division, confusion as EU rethinks future without Britain
By LORNE COOK and ANGELA CHARLTON

BRUSSELS (AP) — EU leaders are meeting Wednesday without Britain for the first time to rethink their union and keep it from disintegrating after Britain's unprecedented vote to leave — but conflicting visions of Europe's future are complicating the high-stakes summit.

British Prime Minister David Cameron left Brussels Tuesday night without any clear divorce plan, fending off pressure for a quick exit and punting the complex departure negotiations to his successor.

With Britain's fate in Europe uncertain, the 27 remaining presidents, chancellors and prime ministers meeting in Brussels are focusing Wednesday on what the EU will look like without Britain. They all seem to agree that something must change after Britain quit, but disagree about how.

The initial EU founding nations in the west lean toward a tighter, closer union while newer nations in the east want to keep more control with national governments — notably of their borders.

Europeans are disenchanted with the EU project and it's up to member states to inspire them with concrete changes and progress, Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel said upon arrival Wednesday. "We have to show that Europe brings a real added value that can be felt by our fellow citizens," he said.

Other EU countries are now facing calls, especially from the far right, for referendums on quitting the bloc amid a widespread sense that the post-war project to foster peace via trade has become a bureaucratic, undemocratic behemoth with little meaning for its half a billion citizens.

Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite saiss Europe must start listening to its citizens on issues like immigration and economic growth. "We all need to wake up and smell the coffee," she said.

The 27 remaining EU members are divided over how to deal with migration, a major issue in Britain's vote last week. Central European nations led by Hungary refuse to accept imposed EU refugee quotas, and countries further north have all tightened border controls in response to the arrival of more than 1 million migrants last year.

Britain's departure has roiled markets and had consequences for all of Europe and beyond, and overshadowed all the discussions Wednesday in Brussels. The unexpected exit vote will rob the EU of its richest financial market, biggest military power and a diplomatic giant.

It could also prompt an unraveling of the UK.

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who has indicated there may be a new referendum on Scottish independence, is in Brussels and hoping to meet with EU leaders Wednesday.

"With a disunited United Kingdom we need a united Europe more than ever," Luxembourg Prime Minister Xavier Bettel said.

At Tuesday night's dinner, EU leaders rejected Cameron's pleas for favorable conditions for Britain once it leaves, insisting there would be no cherry-picking of advantageous trade conditions.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel dismissed suggestions that Cameron's successor might not start the formal EU withdrawal process because of the financial turmoil prompted by the vote and wide confusion about how to extract a country from the EU.

"I see no way to reverse it," Merkel said. She said this is not the time for "wishful thinking."

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Associated Press writers John-Thor Dahlburg and Geir Moulson and Raf Casert in Brussels contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-29

[Usernames]

The EU peasants with their pitchforks and torches are coming to burn Dr. Juncker and his monster out of their castle.

[smedly]

The EU peasants with their pitchforks and torches are coming to burn Dr. Juncker and his monster out of their castle.

I listened to his speech yesterday and all that was missing was a tiny mustache and a nazi salute, the EU needs to look in on itself for answers, there are power hungry fascist dictators emerging and there is nothing in place to stop them. Juncker and Tusk with their threats against the UK people is vicious and almost war like - a fine example of how this great EU has turned into a turd. there is a total rethink required and they need to waken up before it completely falls apart which is looking more likely by the day.

There are of course great things about the EU but the continual increasing power grab has gone beyond the pale, time for a reset.

All 28 members need to sit down and put forward all the things they want and all the things they don't want and take an even equal vote on every issue - not Germany Italy France Juncker and Tusk dictating how it is going to be,

[ilostmypassword]

The EU peasants with their pitchforks and torches are coming to burn Dr. Juncker and his monster out of their castle.

I listened to his speech yesterday and all that was missing was a tiny mustache and a nazi salute, the EU needs to look in on itself for answers, there are power hungry fascist dictators emerging and there is nothing in place to stop them. Juncker and Tusk with their threats against the UK people is vicious and almost war like - a fine example of how this great EU has turned into a turd. there is a total rethink required and they need to waken up before it completely falls apart which is looking more likely by the day.

There are of course great things about the EU but the continual increasing power grab has gone beyond the pale, time for a reset.

All 28 members need to sit down and put forward all the things they want and all the things they don't want and take an even equal vote on every issue - not Germany Italy France Juncker and Tusk dictating how it is going to be,

I just love the cluelessness of this. The UK has just given the EU the finger, and now you are upset because Herr Juncker isn't playing nice.

[smedly]

The EU peasants with their pitchforks and torches are coming to burn Dr. Juncker and his monster out of their castle.

I listened to his speech yesterday and all that was missing was a tiny mustache and a nazi salute, the EU needs to look in on itself for answers, there are power hungry fascist dictators emerging and there is nothing in place to stop them. Juncker and Tusk with their threats against the UK people is vicious and almost war like - a fine example of how this great EU has turned into a turd. there is a total rethink required and they need to waken up before it completely falls apart which is looking more likely by the day.

There are of course great things about the EU but the continual increasing power grab has gone beyond the pale, time for a reset.

All 28 members need to sit down and put forward all the things they want and all the things they don't want and take an even equal vote on every issue - not Germany Italy France Juncker and Tusk dictating how it is going to be,

I just love the cluelessness of this. The UK has just given the EU the finger, and now you are upset because Herr Juncker isn't playing nice.

I am simply emphasising exactly why the finger was given, and BTW I was the first on TVF to use that finger phrase a few days ago, these so called professional people should be removed from office, they are not helping the situation by issuing nasty threats to the UK although in saying that I wouldn't expect anything else from these two A holes

[leggo]

And you are completely right . People who haven't notice this are in the dark about what's happening to Europe - fortunately quite a few leaders of EU contrived are aware of this and will push for serious reforms. The Polish priming tet even demanding the disbanding of the EU commission!

The EU peasants with their pitchforks and torches are coming to burn Dr. Juncker and his monster out of their castle.

I listened to his speech yesterday and all that was missing was a tiny mustache and a nazi salute, the EU needs to look in on itself for answers, there are power hungry fascist dictators emerging and there is nothing in place to stop them. Juncker and Tusk with their threats against the UK people is vicious and almost war like - a fine example of how this great EU has turned into a turd. there is a total rethink required and they need to waken up before it completely falls apart which is looking more likely by the day.

There are of course great things about the EU but the continual increasing power grab has gone beyond the pale, time for a reset.

All 28 members need to sit down and put forward all the things they want and all the things they don't want and take an even equal vote on every issue - not Germany Italy France Juncker and Tusk dictating how it is going to be,

I just love the cluelessness of this. The UK has just given the EU the finger, and now you are upset because Herr Juncker isn't playing nice.

I am simply emphasising exactly why the finger was given, and BTW I was the first on TVF to use that finger phrase a few days ago, these so called professional people should be removed from office, they are not helping the situation by issuing nasty threats to the UK although in saying that I wouldn't expect anything else from these two A holes

[Junkyarddog]

There have been moments in world history when and if one country to another country made the types of threats the EU is making to England at the moment, it was considered to be an act of War.

[daveAustin]

They all seem to agree that something must change after Britain quit, but disagree about how.

Retain single market and ditch everything else, starting with unelected EU officials.

[billd766]

A silly thought just came to my mind.

Just suppose that the EU declared a real war against the UK.

The UK could call upon NATO to help defend it, and which side would the USA be on?

It would be tricky as the EU has no military forces of its own but just suppose there was a central EU army, navy and air force.

Who would be fighting who and for what?

[SgtRock]

They all seem to agree that something must change after Britain quit, but disagree about how.

Retain single market and ditch everything else, starting with unelected EU officials.

Nearly correct.

Ditch the EU and all its commissions and set up a single Trade Commission that deals solely with trade.

Which would be so simple if the EU was only about trade

[Chicog]

And a bit of panic as Italy comes running with its hand out for another 50Bn.....

[Ulic]

For me the answer is simple but would mean the break up of the EU as everyone would

choose the following option. The EU should be a trade association not a social experiment.

Access to the single union should not come with strings attached of using the Euro, free

movement of member country citizens, paying billions to Brussels bureaucrats.

All the countries should get access to the single union by giving access to the other

countries. Everyone should have control of immigration and boarders. Open boarders

between countries is advantageous and desirable but even with Schengen boarder controls

can be put in place when needed. What needs to be streamlined is deportation regulations.

No endless appeal after appeal, and then no deportation without passports. Anyone entering

the country should have the identification page of there passports scanned and that should

be sufficient a travel document for deportation. Anyone claiming asylum must have proper

identification or be deported. The system now is worse than a joke. Detain the people caught

so they cannot just move, hide, and keep working illegally for years and years. Simple.

[dunroaming]

I stood in the voting booth for at least ten minutes trying to decide which way to vote. I didn't believe the Brexit lies about the money for the NHS or the promise to stem immigration. That was just bullsh*t for the masses. But it wasn't about that. It was about the dire mess that the EU was in and their stubbornness in changing the obvious flaws that existed. It seemed judging by Cameron's failed attempts to get real change the only option was to leave in the hope that the repercussions would cause radical change or indeed the collapse of the EU altogether allowing for it's rebirth with new and realistic laws and policies.

On the other hand by agreeing to stay in it would be likely that nothing much would change and we were in essence agreeing with the current policies. It would also make the other countries reluctant to call for referendums. However the consequences of leaving were unknown and all the brexit waffle was at best speculation and it was obvious that there would be initial chaos and much bitterness from the EU main players. The short term disruption and the real possibility of a recession and weak pound would be worth it if it triggered serious reforms within the EU and instigated a new set-up. High risk strategy.

The other worry about voting to leave was that it would likely encourage the brain dead racists and bring them out from under their stones. Could I actually vote with Farage? Would I want my son to grow up in a Britain like that? Of course not and his future is the only thing that really matters. Listening to the b*llocks spouted by both sides it was obvious that it was a political power battle within the Conservative party to oust Cameron and open the door for Boris. We were the pawns in their game and team Boris won.

I eventually voted to remain but I wasn't convinced that that was the right choice at all. Time would tell and so far my fears have been well founded. The racists morons are out and spreading their vitriol and the country is split and fighting amongst itself. I still hope that the EU will have to review it's position and hopefully other countries will get a referendum and push through real change. It's still early days yet and hopefully Boris won't get to be PM and a general election will be triggered.

[bkkcanuck8]

^ You are right, Boris will not be prime minister - he refused to run for the position... All the posturing has come to not now not since as a leave campaigner he would have no option but to trigger article 50 and it probably would have shortened his carrier... which is now shortened anyway.

[SgtRock]

They all seem to agree that something must change after Britain quit, but disagree about how.

Retain single market and ditch everything else, starting with unelected EU officials.