Little England and not-so-Great-Britain

[jpinx]

No problem. Telegraph is controlled by the Barclay brothers - born London but resident in Jersey for 'tax' reasons. Mail is controlled by Viscount Rothermere.

Well hoisted Thanks for the correction but that does not reduce my contempt for journalists and politicians

Edited July 12, 2016 by jpinx

[GuestHouse]

That you personally have not seen hunger in the UK does not mean it does not exist.

Until May, I was living in England. When did you last live there? If ever?

I've reported all these personal attacks. Hopefully they will be removed.

While I appreciate your commitment to a civilised debate and avoidance of personal abuse, I think at least where the abuse and snide inuendo others resort to is left up in the thread, we all get to see the nature of people's arguments.

We can then ask ourselves if we understand the direction in which our nation is being driven and by what mindset.

[Khun Han]

Does anybody in this debate have access to data from the future in order to help GuestHouse out???

It's not me using historical data to predict outcomes for a Brexit that has no plan.

Your attempt to blame the problems of Brexit on people who are critical of Brexit is duly noted.

This guy might as well be talking gobbeldigook. I give up.

[Orac]

No problem. Telegraph is controlled by the Barclay brothers - born London but resident in Jersey for 'tax' reasons. Mail is controlled by Viscount Rothermere.

Well hoisted Thanks for the correction but that does not reduce my contempt for journalists and politicians

Though technically wrong it is important to measure what a journalist says against where it is being said from - as you point out there are numerous media outlets that do take an editorial line and clearly display a bias driven by who controls it. To dismiss all journalists and mainstream media would also be wrong though since this should be the medium we get our information from though there is a need to 'factcheck' through other sources particularly on contentious issues.

[JAG]

Take the focus off the UK - now that we have a PM who might actually *do* something -- but look at the EU. The IMF are forecasting a reduction in growth, the Italian banking system is in need of serious cash, Greece still owes more than it can ever hope to repay, and Deutsche Bank have been asking for cash. French Farmers continue to cause major disruption every time there's something from brussels that they don't like. The Euro has been down against the USdollar for 2 years now. The only countries joining the EU now are takers - not contributors. Why on earth does *any* country stay in there ?? ---- It's because the politicians want their fat salaries and pensions, and most of all - they want POWER

And you can bet your last Euro that they will do everything, but everything in their power to ensure that their people do not have a say in remaining in the EU.

[Jip99]

That you personally have not seen hunger in the UK does not mean it does not exist.

Until May, I was living in England. When did you last live there? If ever?

I've reported all these personal attacks. Hopefully they will be removed.

While I appreciate your commitment to a civilised debate and avoidance of personal abuse, I think at least where the abuse and snide inuendo others resort to is left up in the thread, we all get to see the nature of people's arguments.

We can then ask ourselves if we understand the direction in which our nation is being driven and by what mindset.

Save your breath and don't bother asking.

We are being driven by Theresa May with the strings pulled by the 1922 committee et al.

You are only a passenger in the rear car of this vessel but, rest assured, the direction you traveling in is guided by "Brexit means Brexit" - even if the exact coordinates are not yet known.

[ilostmypassword]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Spain's access to British waters is by EU agreement, fishing quota set by EU.

Britain out = no fishing rights for Spain = no quotas ........ unless the British government give it away.

Gunboats out, start sinking a few Spanish trawlers, it doesn't seem all that hard to me.

What's Spain going to do? Send the Armada?

There's just one thing you're going to have to do to make this work: make the fish stop migrating. You see, you might think of the sealife that spends time in the UK's water as British. But the sealife doesn't necessarily agree. In fact, it's largely migratory. Which means that if the UK stops respecting quotas, so do all the other nations that share the resource. And in no time at all, the UK can harvest 100% of nothing.

[jpinx]

The telegraph was lambasted for using google instead of reporters a while ago (also from wikipedia) - so they are no better at "analysing" the news than I am -- using the same google

Edit to remove crappy formatting of quotes

Edited July 12, 2016 by jpinx

[jpinx]

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Spain's access to British waters is by EU agreement, fishing quota set by EU.

Britain out = no fishing rights for Spain = no quotas ........ unless the British government give it away.

Gunboats out, start sinking a few Spanish trawlers, it doesn't seem all that hard to me.

What's Spain going to do? Send the Armada?

There's just one thing you're going to have to do to make this work: make the fish stop migrating. You see, you might think of the sealife that spends time in the UK's water as British. But the sealife doesn't necessarily agree. In fact, it's largely migratory. Which means that if the UK stops respecting quotas, so do all the other nations that share the resource. And in no time at all, the UK can harvest 100% of nothing.

UK waters - as agreed by international treaty - will become a UK asset -- not a spanish one. The fish species might change due to the various ecological effects, but the fishing boats will be able to provide more than enough for the home market and for export at huge prices to Spain. Hopefully UK will take a leaf out of Indonesia's book and summarily sink any foreign fishing boat caught fishing in UK waters.

[ilostmypassword]

my brothers company situated in London sends two articulated lorries per day to France to buy French vegetables, since the pound has fallen he is paying over the top for the produce as he has to pay in Euro's, he passes this increase on to his customers.

That's a nice anecdote reflecting today's currency situation, but what does it have to do with prices negotiated through future EU-free trade agreements?

... more interestingly - what has it got to do with the prices that will be negotiated by an independent UK with other supplying countries.?

Do you think food prices are negotiated between countries? Tariffs may be negotiated, quotas may be negotiated, but not food prices. Those are dependent on the commodity markets or other markets.

[ilostmypassword]

since the EU isn't communist i assume that the EU farmers will charge a rate for their produce that gives them a profit,it wont be affected by trade agreements.If the pound remains weak then obviously the produce will be more expensive in pounds.

Alternatively, if they want too much for their produce, we won't buy it and they can sit and watch it rot.

Your idea of the the market is the UK buys and everyone else sells? I got news for you, the UK is only one nation out of many and a small percentage of the world population. The UK's consumption or lack thereof will play only a small role in the commodity market.

[Jip99]

since the EU isn't communist i assume that the EU farmers will charge a rate for their produce that gives them a profit,it wont be affected by trade agreements.If the pound remains weak then obviously the produce will be more expensive in pounds.

Alternatively, if they want too much for their produce, we won't buy it and they can sit and watch it rot.

Your idea of the the market is the UK buys and everyone else sells? I got news for you, the UK is only one nation out of many and a small percentage of the world population. The UK's consumption or lack thereof will play only a small role in the commodity market.

I bet we will still buy oranges from Spain, grapes from Israel and port from Portugal.

The French can stick their Piat d'Or

[ilostmypassword]

The inflation will cause hardship for people on low incomes (who comprise most of the Brexit vote).

According to you and a few lefty media reports. Is anyone in the UK actually hungry? I've not seen it.

All the people on low incomes I've seen, still seem to afford a full Sky package with sports. Not to mention being able to smoke and drink down the pub every day. I wasn't ever 'low income' but strangely I couldn't spend like that every day.

I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't have been happier in the UK as low income, but with no housing responsibilities, no schooling fees and no university fees to worry about. Not having to push the kids all the time or help with homework or get them to school on time.

Are you ever going to give google search a shot? I did a search for hunger in the uk.

https://www.trusselltrust.org/2015/11/18/uk-foodbank-use-still-at-record-levels-as-hunger-remains-major-concern-for-low-income-families/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11278085/Justin-Welbys-shock-at-scale-of-hunger-in-UK.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-30073155

And there are plenty more links where these come from.

[GuestHouse]

I bet we will still buy oranges from Spain, grapes from Israel and port from Portugal.

The French can stick their Piat d'Or

The people who can afford them will.

[ilostmypassword]

since the EU isn't communist i assume that the EU farmers will charge a rate for their produce that gives them a profit,it wont be affected by trade agreements.If the pound remains weak then obviously the produce will be more expensive in pounds.

Alternatively, if they want too much for their produce, we won't buy it and they can sit and watch it rot.

Your idea of the the market is the UK buys and everyone else sells? I got news for you, the UK is only one nation out of many and a small percentage of the world population. The UK's consumption or lack thereof will play only a small role in the commodity market.

I bet we will still buy oranges from Spain, grapes from Israel and port from Portugal.

The French can stick their Piat d'Or

I'm sure you will be able to. And the price will depend on the strength of the pound. Unless you still believe it's in the purview of these governments to set the price of grapes.

[jpinx]

That's a nice anecdote reflecting today's currency situation, but what does it have to do with prices negotiated through future EU-free trade agreements?

... more interestingly - what has it got to do with the prices that will be negotiated by an independent UK with other supplying countries.?

Do you think food prices are negotiated between countries? Tariffs may be negotiated, quotas may be negotiated, but not food prices. Those are dependent on the commodity markets or other markets.

we're not being too pedantic about things in here -- Prices are agreed between the companies doing the buying a selling. Quotas and taxes,tarriffs, etc are agreed between countries. The nub of the point is that sellers want to sell and will be very happy to deal with UK outside the quotas and tarriffs regimes set up by the EU for non-eu suppliers. UK has a nice opportunity here to make deals with older friends than those in nrthern europe. Who knows - we might buy argentinian beef and NZ lamb again - at a lot less than anything the EU produces.

Let's get something straight -- Brexit will hurt for a while, but the sooner the deals are done the sooner things will get back to normal. It's not as if UK will sink below the waves -- only the gloom and doom merchants have such terrible views. It is incumbent on UK people to pull together in spite of differences of opinion on some of the aspects of how it should be done. Similarlyy - the EU needs to pull together to sort out it's huge mess.

[ilostmypassword]

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Spain's access to British waters is by EU agreement, fishing quota set by EU.

Britain out = no fishing rights for Spain = no quotas ........ unless the British government give it away.

Gunboats out, start sinking a few Spanish trawlers, it doesn't seem all that hard to me.

What's Spain going to do? Send the Armada?

There's just one thing you're going to have to do to make this work: make the fish stop migrating. You see, you might think of the sealife that spends time in the UK's water as British. But the sealife doesn't necessarily agree. In fact, it's largely migratory. Which means that if the UK stops respecting quotas, so do all the other nations that share the resource. And in no time at all, the UK can harvest 100% of nothing.

UK waters - as agreed by international treaty - will become a UK asset -- not a spanish one. The fish species might change due to the various ecological effects, but the fishing boats will be able to provide more than enough for the home market and for export at huge prices to Spain. Hopefully UK will take a leaf out of Indonesia's book and summarily sink any foreign fishing boat caught fishing in UK waters.

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

[jpinx]

There's just one thing you're going to have to do to make this work: make the fish stop migrating. You see, you might think of the sealife that spends time in the UK's water as British. But the sealife doesn't necessarily agree. In fact, it's largely migratory. Which means that if the UK stops respecting quotas, so do all the other nations that share the resource. And in no time at all, the UK can harvest 100% of nothing.

UK waters - as agreed by international treaty - will become a UK asset -- not a spanish one. The fish species might change due to the various ecological effects, but the fishing boats will be able to provide more than enough for the home market and for export at huge prices to Spain. Hopefully UK will take a leaf out of Indonesia's book and summarily sink any foreign fishing boat caught fishing in UK waters.

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

The CFP along with the CAP, were rightly damned by all and sundry as brussels tied up the UK boats but allowed the spanish to continue fishing UK waters, built butter mountains and milk lakes, most of which were sold off ultra cheap to Russia. The HUGE factory fishing boat from Holland was banned from Australia for being a menace to the environment, but it was licenced by Brussels to fish in UK waters. There is no question that getting out from under the hand of Brussels will make the industry change, but not diminish. Fish stocks in Uk waters are UK's to preserve.

[MissAndry]

since the EU isn't communist i assume that the EU farmers will charge a rate for their produce that gives them a profit,it wont be affected by trade agreements.If the pound remains weak then obviously the produce will be more expensive in pounds.

Alternatively, if they want too much for their produce, we won't buy it and they can sit and watch it rot.

Your idea of the the market is the UK buys and everyone else sells? I got news for you, the UK is only one nation out of many and a small percentage of the world population. The UK's consumption or lack thereof will play only a small role in the commodity market.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I actually am not all that in favour of excessive international trading for basic foodstuffs. I'm of the opinion that each country should concentrate on filling its own basic market requirements for everything from food to engineering.

Buy some raw materials not locally available, OK, but keep a few years of stockpile in reserve.

The world as we know it is too fragile with everything shipped internationally 'just in time', it's a recipe for disaster. One unusual event, and we all starve to death.

Let's have the essentials home produced, and only inessentials provided by countries outside our control.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[jpinx]

Take a look at what EU is losing....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/European_Union_Exclusive_Economic_Zones.PNG

[ilostmypassword]

There's just one thing you're going to have to do to make this work: make the fish stop migrating. You see, you might think of the sealife that spends time in the UK's water as British. But the sealife doesn't necessarily agree. In fact, it's largely migratory. Which means that if the UK stops respecting quotas, so do all the other nations that share the resource. And in no time at all, the UK can harvest 100% of nothing.

UK waters - as agreed by international treaty - will become a UK asset -- not a spanish one. The fish species might change due to the various ecological effects, but the fishing boats will be able to provide more than enough for the home market and for export at huge prices to Spain. Hopefully UK will take a leaf out of Indonesia's book and summarily sink any foreign fishing boat caught fishing in UK waters.

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

The CFP along with the CAP, were rightly damned by all and sundry as brussels tied up the UK boats but allowed the spanish to continue fishing UK waters, built butter mountains and milk lakes, most of which were sold off ultra cheap to Russia. The HUGE factory fishing boat from Holland was banned from Australia for being a menace to the environment, but it was licenced by Brussels to fish in UK waters. There is no question that getting out from under the hand of Brussels will make the industry change, but not diminish. Fish stocks in Uk waters are UK's to preserve.

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

[MissAndry]

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

Yes that's how such things normally work, everyone protects their own waters and stocks.

Unless you're some sort of federalist.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[ilostmypassword]

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

Yes that's how such things normally work, everyone protects their own waters and stocks.

Unless you're some sort of federalist.

Wow. It is tough getting through to you. The fish are not the UK's own stock. Because the migrate they share them with other nations. If th UK doesn't come to an agreement with other nations, then everyone is free to take as much as they want. And when that happens, the fish disappear. And everybody loses.

Edited July 12, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[MissAndry]

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

Yes that's how such things normally work, everyone protects their own waters and stocks.

Unless you're some sort of federalist.

Wow. It is tough getting through to you. The fish are not the UK's own stock. Because the migrate they share them with other nations. If they don't come to an agreement with other nations, then everyone is free to take as much as they want. And when that happens, the fish disappear. And everybody loses.

At the moment we are the only ones that lose, because Spain doesn't care about the agreements.

Better no fish for everyone than no fish for us IMHO.

[jpinx]

UK waters - as agreed by international treaty - will become a UK asset -- not a spanish one. The fish species might change due to the various ecological effects, but the fishing boats will be able to provide more than enough for the home market and for export at huge prices to Spain. Hopefully UK will take a leaf out of Indonesia's book and summarily sink any foreign fishing boat caught fishing in UK waters.

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

The CFP along with the CAP, were rightly damned by all and sundry as brussels tied up the UK boats but allowed the spanish to continue fishing UK waters, built butter mountains and milk lakes, most of which were sold off ultra cheap to Russia. The HUGE factory fishing boat from Holland was banned from Australia for being a menace to the environment, but it was licenced by Brussels to fish in UK waters. There is no question that getting out from under the hand of Brussels will make the industry change, but not diminish. Fish stocks in Uk waters are UK's to preserve.

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

You're being silly -- does the EU control the weather for the whole of EU-land? If so I'll be glad to get out of the EU so that UK can give us our own sweet summers..

[ilostmypassword]

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

“Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered,” said the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations.

“Unfortunately, perhaps, the UK’s geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

The CFP along with the CAP, were rightly damned by all and sundry as brussels tied up the UK boats but allowed the spanish to continue fishing UK waters, built butter mountains and milk lakes, most of which were sold off ultra cheap to Russia. The HUGE factory fishing boat from Holland was banned from Australia for being a menace to the environment, but it was licenced by Brussels to fish in UK waters. There is no question that getting out from under the hand of Brussels will make the industry change, but not diminish. Fish stocks in Uk waters are UK's to preserve.

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

You're being silly -- does the EU control the weather for the whole of EU-land? If so I'll be glad to get out of the EU so that UK can give us our own sweet summers..

I'm being silly? I wasn't aware that foreigners were consuming British weather.. Or that the UKwas consuming foreigner's weather. The supply of weather is inexhaustible. The supply of fish is not. I thought it was impossible to top Missandry. But you've managed to do it. I have to hope that you were just joking. But given your previous comments, that seems unlikely.

[Khun Han]

I see you didn't actuallly bother to read the article I linked to. Here's a selection from it:

British fishing fleets will still be bound by international agreements on fish stocks that must now be worked out, and which may not be to their benefit.

Promises have been made and expectations raised during the referendum campaign and it is now time to examine if and how they can be delivered, said the National Federation of Fishermens Organisations.

Unfortunately, perhaps, the UKs geopolitical position means that it is not politically or legally possible just to ringfence most of our fish resources, in the way that, for example, Iceland can. The reality is that most of our stocks are shared with other countries to some degree or other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

The CFP along with the CAP, were rightly damned by all and sundry as brussels tied up the UK boats but allowed the spanish to continue fishing UK waters, built butter mountains and milk lakes, most of which were sold off ultra cheap to Russia. The HUGE factory fishing boat from Holland was banned from Australia for being a menace to the environment, but it was licenced by Brussels to fish in UK waters. There is no question that getting out from under the hand of Brussels will make the industry change, but not diminish. Fish stocks in Uk waters are UK's to preserve.

ANd when they migrate to Holland, are they Holland's to preserve? And to France, France's? And to Spain, Spain's? Do you think fish actually give a toss about national boundaries?

You're being silly -- does the EU control the weather for the whole of EU-land? If so I'll be glad to get out of the EU so that UK can give us our own sweet summers..

I'm being silly? I wasn't aware that foreigners were consuming British weather.. Or that the UKwas consuming foreigner's weather. The supply of weather is inexhaustible. The supply of fish is not. I thought it was impossible to top Missandry. But you've managed to do it. I have to hope that you were just joking. But given your previous comments, that seems unlikely.

The comprehension issues appear to be on your part. Once we exit the EU, we are free to negotiate the best terms for OUR fishing industry. Not Spain's. Not any other EU country that relies heavily on fishing. And if countries such as Spain try to ignore our treaties, we can legally send them packing with gunboat diplomacy if needs be.

Maybe you can find another news article that twists the UK fishing industry's words the way that the Grauniad one did?

[JAG]

The fishermen deserve it. They were just so rude and unreasonable to that nice Sir Bob Geldorf and his wise well meaning friends on the Thames the other week....

[MJP]

Germany's Siemens embraces 'Project Optimism' in Brexit U-turn

Europe’s largest industrial combine has vowed to press ahead with investment in Britain despite the vote to leave the EU, backing away deftly from earlier suggestions that Brexit would cause a painful freeze on new activities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/11/germanys-siemens-embraces-project-optimism-in-brexit-u-turn/

This correlates with the decision of the board of one of Europe's biggest firms to increase investment in the UK following Brexit, of which I have first hand knowledge. They were delighted by the referendum result.

I used to work for a Siemens' company in the UK, their investment in the UK economy is huge and very tightly integrated into the wider Siemens corporation - any investment message from Siemens needs to be understood in its impact on confidence on Siemens (not Siemens' confidence in the UK).

Brexit will take at least 2 years, possibly a decade, might possibly not happen at all.

The announcement from Siemens makes good business sense. For the time being.

But don't hang your hat on it.

We're doing the enabling and ground works for a £2bn development in London for the firm of which I speak. They have a total of fifty developments planned across the UK from this point on and have increased their investment in their UK operations by 10% because of Brexit.

[mommysboy]

Germany's Siemens embraces 'Project Optimism' in Brexit U-turn

Europe’s largest industrial combine has vowed to press ahead with investment in Britain despite the vote to leave the EU, backing away deftly from earlier suggestions that Brexit would cause a painful freeze on new activities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/11/germanys-siemens-embraces-project-optimism-in-brexit-u-turn/

This correlates with the decision of the board of one of Europe's biggest firms to increase investment in the UK following Brexit, of which I have first hand knowledge. They were delighted by the referendum result.

I used to work for a Siemens' company in the UK, their investment in the UK economy is huge and very tightly integrated into the wider Siemens corporation - any investment message from Siemens needs to be understood in its impact on confidence on Siemens (not Siemens' confidence in the UK).

Brexit will take at least 2 years, possibly a decade, might possibly not happen at all.

The announcement from Siemens makes good business sense. For the time being.

But don't hang your hat on it.

We're doing the enabling and ground works for a £2bn development in London for the firm of which I speak. They have a total of fifty developments planned across the UK from this point on and have increased their investment in their UK operations by 10% because of Brexit.

UK will become an alternative to EU. A better, lower priced, faster, more productive economy with more liberal regulations.

Personally, I really doin't think UK should bother with a single market trade deal as it stands.