Putin warns Finland: Russia will respond if Helsinki joins NATO

[rooster59]

Putin warns Finland: Russia will respond if Helsinki joins NATO



Vladimir Putin came to Finland with a handshake for his counterpart, President Salui Niinisto – and a warning that Moscow will respond if his host country joins NATO.

Finland and neighbouring Sweden have increased cooperation with the Western military alliance since Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its backing for separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine.

This was Putin’s first visit to Finland since those crises erupted in 2014.

He said Russia would respect Finland’s decision if it decided to join NATO, but would respond.

“What do you think we will do in this situation? We moved our forces back, 1500 kilometres away – will we keep our forces there? How they assure the safety and independence of their own country is the Finns’ choice. Undoubtedly we appreciate Finland’s neutral status,” the Russian president said during a joint outdoor news conference.

The presidents’ meeting at Naantali comes amid increased Russian and NATO activity in the Baltic region. Finland is militarily neutral but interest in the possibility of joining the alliance has been rising.

The former Soviet Baltic states have called on NATO to step up air defences.

The Baltic Sea has been the arena for a series of close encounters between Russian and Western aircraft in recent months. The Russian and Finnish presidents agreed to draw up security measures to control flights in the area.

A NATO summit is due to take place in Warsaw in a week’s time.

Vladimir Putin added that Moscow would try to begin a dialogue with NATO.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-07-02

[Laughing Gravy]

Now this is interesting. Knowing the Finish and their despise for Russia, I can see this a catalyst for a war. With the Ukraine and other ex USSR states joining the west, this might just be the tipping point for Putin. I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised.

[happy Joe]

Now this is interesting. Knowing the Finish and their despise for Russia, I can see this a catalyst for a war. With the Ukraine and other ex USSR states joining the west, this might just be the tipping point for Putin. I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised.

Like with Turkey, Europe pretends to be open but in reality it blocks these new memberships too dangerous.

Understand that the EU was created initially to end the fratricidal wars between neighboring countries. So far, this goal has been fully achieved.

This is certainly not going to cause big Russian neighbor. Finland will therefore remain neutral and Russia will curb equipment Ukrainian separatists. All with the ultimate objective of a strong alliance with Europe that the recent Brexit will promote.

[Publicus]

Finland isn't going to change its relationship with Russia which means it certainly isn't going to apply to Nato. Putin and Nato know this, i.e., Finland didn't need Nato during the Cold War so it certainly doesn't need any new headaches now.

There's a thousand years of bad blood between the Fin and the Rus that have created the past hundred years of a standoff between 'em.

So the more time and attention Putin has to expend on a quiet, stable and peaceful Finland at its border the less time the Czarist-Chekist Putin has to scheme in Ukraine, Syria, around central Asia and against Nato-Europe itself.

If Putin wants to keep forces at the Fin border that's his choice, which is to say it's his self-created problem.

[Guest]

Finland wishes to be neutral and it wishes not to participate in any wars.

However having a 1000km border with currently unstable Russia, lead by power hungry Putin, creates uncertainty of the future.

Finland might have to join the NATO, simply to deter the threat from the east. Many other bordering countries have jumped to the NATO ship for the same reason.

It's kind of funny, that nobody wishes to be with the Russia, not even those who were part of the Warsaw pact during the first cold war era.

Russia is famous of it's disinformation. Now it said that their troops have been moved 1500km from Finnish border. In fact the closest troops are only 50km from the border. St Petersburg is few hundred km away and Moscow is about 800km away.

Finns don't have issue with Russians. We do have fear of Putin who is loosing internal power and who has already shown aggressions outside Russia's borders. Putin has made Russia unstable and does anything to gain more personal power. I just hope the real Russians will someday wake up and put him down.

[Guest]

Finland has only 5 million people.

If Russia chooses to try to invade Finland, it will soon notice that 5 million highly educated and motivated Finns are very difficult to handle.

Moscow would soon see a lot of 'terrorist' acts which are aimed to crumble down Russia. These acts would not be anything like what we have seen before.

Just saying, Finland is really not worth of even a try.

I guess courses to learn a Russian dialects which are not widely spoken in Moscow are going to be in demand soon.

[klauskunkel]

Finland has only 5 million people.

If Russia chooses to try to invade Finland, it will soon notice that 5 million highly educated and motivated Finns are very difficult to handle.

Moscow would soon see a lot of 'terrorist' acts which are aimed to crumble down Russia. These acts would not be anything like what we have seen before.

Just saying, Finland is really not worth of even a try.

I guess courses to learn a Russian dialects which are not widely spoken in Moscow are going to be in demand soon.

An old Finnish saying "Hakkaa Palle"... maybe more of a shouting!

[Publicus]

Finland wishes to be neutral and it wishes not to participate in any wars.

However having a 1000km border with currently unstable Russia, lead by power hungry Putin, creates uncertainty of the future.

Finland might have to join the NATO, simply to deter the threat from the east. Many other bordering countries have jumped to the NATO ship for the same reason.

It's kind of funny, that nobody wishes to be with the Russia, not even those who were part of the Warsaw pact during the first cold war era.

Russia is famous of it's disinformation. Now it said that their troops have been moved 1500km from Finnish border. In fact the closest troops are only 50km from the border. St Petersburg is few hundred km away and Moscow is about 800km away.

moscow-1500km.jpg

Finns don't have issue with Russians. We do have fear of Putin who is loosing internal power and who has already shown aggressions outside Russia's borders. Putin has made Russia unstable and does anything to gain more personal power. I just hope the real Russians will someday wake up and put him down.

Finland might have to join the NATO, simply to deter the threat from the east. Many other bordering countries have jumped to the NATO ship for the same reason.

Sympathetically understood.

Still, it seems doubtful Nato would actually want the risk of Finland as a new member state. It would be a very high risk to Nato given the long history of conflict and animus between Russia and Finland. Finland joining Nato would surely send Putin and the Russians themselves ballistic.

It's not like Poland (or the other former Warsaw Pact nations) joining Nato. While Russia and Poland have their own long history of wars and animus, it's not the same as the Russians and the Fins, ne c'est pas. Sweden isn't in Nato either although Norway and Denmark are in it.

Don't see Finland in Nato as more than a talking point or as a part of an overall Nato strategy to keep Putin on edge. (A lot of it in Moscow might depend too on how much the Russian economic elites might want an immediate and expanded land access base that's already in the Arctic.)

Nato is and always has been an alliance to protect Western Europe against the (Soviet) Russia armies led by first rate tanks in a large mass. In the 1990s that expanded to encompass the former Soviet satellite countries of Eastern Europe. So Finland (or Sweden) might be a bit removed from the premise and the rationale of it.

[Chicog]

Putin has a short memory.

Simo Häyhä is the single most successful sniper in military history. Nicknamed the “White Death” for his totally white camouflage and eerie white mask he wore in combat, the Finnish marksman amassed at least 505 confirmed sniper kills during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union.

(No, Trumpeteers, it wasn't Chris Kyle).

[NumbNut]

Putin has a short memory.

Simo Häyhä is the single most successful sniper in military history. Nicknamed the “White Death” for his totally white camouflage and eerie white mask he wore in combat, the Finnish marksman amassed at least 505 confirmed sniper kills during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union.

(No, Trumpeteers, it wasn't Chris Kyle).

And apparently he preferred iron (open) sights as well. How hard is that... no pansy telescopes for him!

[Thaidream]

Putin is simply trying to recover some Russian honor in that Russia was once a superpower and now is not. Frankly, I believe there was an over reaction by NATO regarding Russia's takeover of Crimea. Ukraine was floating a possible Nato adventure and Russia had already warned against such a move. In fact, Russia has maintained a Naval Base in Crimea for years. The encirclement of Russia by Nato countries puts Russia ill at ease in the same manner that America would be uneasy with Russian forces in Mexico or Canada. Actually, Russia and America almost went to war in 1962 over Russia placing troops and missiles in Cuba approximately 90 miles from Florida. I remember it well as a teenager. We all thought it was the end of the World as nuclear powers were eyeball to eyeball.The Us and Nato as well as border countries need to understand Russia's fear of encirclement and realize Putin is old school- he will fight back.

[Kiwiken]

It is doubtful that Finland would join Nato. What the West needs to keep in mind is the old saying "Better the Devil you know than the One you don't" Putin falling from power may have the reverse effect of hard line Nationalism in Russia. Many Russians seem to feel persecuted by European and US policy. Do not get sucked into the "We are Right box lest you end up in the War box and any physical assault on the Russian homeland I would suspect would trigger a response from the old Bear you would not want.

[landslide]

At the start of WW II, Russia attacked Finland while Germany was invading Poland. The Finns handed the Russians their hats, inflicting tremendous losses on the Russian forces. When Hitler turned on Russia, Russian forces immediately backed off the invasion of Finland. Even when the tide of war turned, and Russia was receiving Allied support, they did not attempt to invade Finland again. You don't mess with the Finns.

[Publicus]

It is doubtful that Finland would join Nato. What the West needs to keep in mind is the old saying "Better the Devil you know than the One you don't" Putin falling from power may have the reverse effect of hard line Nationalism in Russia. Many Russians seem to feel persecuted by European and US policy. Do not get sucked into the "We are Right box lest you end up in the War box and any physical assault on the Russian homeland I would suspect would trigger a response from the old Bear you would not want.

any physical assault on the Russian homeland I would suspect would trigger a response from the old Bear you would not want.

Pious and menacing simultaneously, however, Nato has never taken any military action against either Soviet Russia or Putin's Czarist-Chekist Russia nor will it initiate any, the Putin fanboyz rah-rah notwithstanding.

[Publicus]

Putin is simply trying to recover some Russian honor in that Russia was once a superpower and now is not. Frankly, I believe there was an over reaction by NATO regarding Russia's takeover of Crimea. Ukraine was floating a possible Nato adventure and Russia had already warned against such a move. In fact, Russia has maintained a Naval Base in Crimea for years. The encirclement of Russia by Nato countries puts Russia ill at ease in the same manner that America would be uneasy with Russian forces in Mexico or Canada. Actually, Russia and America almost went to war in 1962 over Russia placing troops and missiles in Cuba approximately 90 miles from Florida. I remember it well as a teenager. We all thought it was the end of the World as nuclear powers were eyeball to eyeball.The Us and Nato as well as border countries need to understand Russia's fear of encirclement and realize Putin is old school- he will fight back.

Putin is old school- he will fight back

Well then maybe he'll get a good swift kick to the lower frontal area.

Master strategist Putin is not. Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail. Or have shot. Or poisoned.

Putin would have fought long ago if it hadn't been for Nato precluding him and it. Putin will get away with only what we'd let him.

[mopar71]

Putin "warning" Finland probably would make joining NATO more likely.

[Kiwiken]

At the start of WW II, Russia attacked Finland while Germany was invading Poland. The Finns handed the Russians their hats, inflicting tremendous losses on the Russian forces. When Hitler turned on Russia, Russian forces immediately backed off the invasion of Finland. Even when the tide of war turned, and Russia was receiving Allied support, they did not attempt to invade Finland again. You don't mess with the Finns.

Hate to rain on your parade but the Soviet attack on Finland was in 1940. It was a wake up call for the Soviet Hierarchy and Stalin that his purges had so weakened the Soviet Militaries command structure. Hostilities ceased in March 1940 with the signing of the Moscow Peace Treaty. Finland ceded territory representing 11% of its land area and 30% of its economy to the Soviet Union. A Year later 1941 When operation Barbarossa was launched by the Germans the Soviet Military was halfway through a re equipment program . The result German Intelligence underestimated the strength and organisation of the Soviet Forces. The Japanese decision not to attack Russia allowed Stalin to move 53 highly trained and well equiped Divisions from the Manchurian Border which dealt the Germans their first major defeat at the Battle of Moscow. Russia never invaded Finland because they just wanted control of the Land they captured in 1940 and still control.

[Norvid]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

[kovaltech]

Putin has a short memory.

Simo Häyhä is the single most successful sniper in military history. Nicknamed the “White Death” for his totally white camouflage and eerie white mask he wore in combat, the Finnish marksman amassed at least 505 confirmed sniper kills during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union.

(No, Trumpeteers, it wasn't Chris Kyle).

looking up "winter war" on Wikipedia... a deja vu feeling ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

[Kiwiken]

Putin has a short memory.

Simo Häyhä is the single most successful sniper in military history. Nicknamed the “White Death” for his totally white camouflage and eerie white mask he wore in combat, the Finnish marksman amassed at least 505 confirmed sniper kills during the Winter War between Finland and the Soviet Union.

(No, Trumpeteers, it wasn't Chris Kyle).

looking up "winter war" on Wikipedia... a deja vu feeling ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

And the world did not then have a thing called tactical nuclear weapons

[billd766]

Now this is interesting. Knowing the Finish and their despise for Russia, I can see this a catalyst for a war. With the Ukraine and other ex USSR states joining the west, this might just be the tipping point for Putin. I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised.

Like with Turkey, Europe pretends to be open but in reality it blocks these new memberships too dangerous.

Understand that the EU was created initially to end the fratricidal wars between neighboring countries. So far, this goal has been fully achieved.

This is certainly not going to cause big Russian neighbor. Finland will therefore remain neutral and Russia will curb equipment Ukrainian separatists. All with the ultimate objective of a strong alliance with Europe that the recent Brexit will promote.

It may interest you to learn that NATO is not part of the EU and was created way back on 4th April 1949, long before the EEC and the EU were even thought of.

The EU has no power over NATO at all but I can guarantee that if there is a problem they will rely on NATO to protect them.

[mopar71]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

[Kiwiken]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

You are deluded enough to believe that crap. If a nuclear exchange every population on the planet will be reduced by 90+% . You will pick up the pieces in your stone age society. it will take us 1000+ years to get back to where we are in time to blow ourselves back to the stone age. And repeat again. We learn nothing. Believe all the crap the ruling elites tell us. Anyone that tells you different is a communist , Religious Fanatic or Capitalist Exploitist depending on which view you have been brain washed to believe. The truth is to question everything you believe. And once the clouds lift from you mind you will see Left or Right it is the same people manipulating your thoughts. We are but sheep but one Day the Sheep will awaken and the lies of the Wolves will be exposed.

[hawker9000]

There must be a slavic branch to Kim Jong-un's family...

[dick dasterdly]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

You are deluded enough to believe that crap. If a nuclear exchange every population on the planet will be reduced by 90+% . You will pick up the pieces in your stone age society. it will take us 1000+ years to get back to where we are in time to blow ourselves back to the stone age. And repeat again. We learn nothing. Believe all the crap the ruling elites tell us. Anyone that tells you different is a communist , Religious Fanatic or Capitalist Exploitist depending on which view you have been brain washed to believe. The truth is to question everything you believe. And once the clouds lift from you mind you will see Left or Right it is the same people manipulating your thoughts. We are but sheep but one Day the Sheep will awaken and the lies of the Wolves will be exposed.

It won't happen . We've lived with it for so long that we're used to it - and few question why MAD is allowed, preferring to believe that its OK as 'we' are protecting ourselves from the 'enemy'.

[mopar71]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

You are deluded enough to believe that crap. If a nuclear exchange every population on the planet will be reduced by 90+% . You will pick up the pieces in your stone age society. it will take us 1000+ years to get back to where we are in time to blow ourselves back to the stone age. And repeat again. We learn nothing. Believe all the crap the ruling elites tell us. Anyone that tells you different is a communist , Religious Fanatic or Capitalist Exploitist depending on which view you have been brain washed to believe. The truth is to question everything you believe. And once the clouds lift from you mind you will see Left or Right it is the same people manipulating your thoughts. We are but sheep but one Day the Sheep will awaken and the lies of the Wolves will be exposed.

Can you re-write that where you sound sane?

After years of neglect most Russian nukes will never make it to their destinations leaving the US only partially destroyed. Russia, they are goners. China? Don't have to do anything other than pick up pieces.

As for believing everything you are told, add to that list mankind being wiped out by a nuclear WWIII. Without checking first, do you know how many atomic & nuclear explosions the planet has already been through? Think of a number in your heard before Googling it.

[Guest]

The problem with nuclear war is that nobody can ever win one. Even if only one party would send their nukes to the other side, and the other side would not retaliate, both would be destroyed.

If Russia would send it's arsenal to the USA, million of US citizens would die instantly. The are the lucky ones. The rest would die of hunger, just like the most Russian folks, who were not even exposed to the nukes or radiation. The same applies the other way around.

During the cold war era, there was a moment of epiphany. Scientists from both sides joined together as they were intelligent enough to see the far larger thread than what nuclear war was expected to present. This co-operation made Reagan and Russian counterparts to think over and to realise that neither party would never win the war.

Mutually Assured Destruction is really what it says. However it doesn't just apply to the countries who are being nuked, it applies to all of us. Even us, who are thousands of kilometres from the blast sides.

Simplifying: Cities have a lot of combustible material. Nukes create huge fires. These fires shoot dust all the way to the stratosphere, on top of the troposphere, where rain can't clear the air with rain. Earth is covered with dust, which blocks the radiation from the Sun.

Global temperatures drop significantly. Plants can't cope with the cold and lack of sunlight. Plants die. Animals don't have plants to eat. Animals die. Humans don't have neither plants nor animals to eat. Not to forget that the infrastructure we used to have, have collapsed. Humans die of hunger.

This is a old, but informative video from the era when we used to be smarter.

The number of nuclear atmospheric explosions 1945 - 1992

As of 1993, worldwide, 520 atmospheric nuclear explosions (including 8 underwater) have been conducted with a total yield of 545 Megaton (Mt): 217 Mt from fission and 328 Mt from fusion

Nuclear warheads

Nine countries together possess more than 15,000 nuclear weapons. The United States and Russia maintain roughly 1,800 of their nuclear weapons on high-alert status – ready to be launched within minutes of a warning.

[neverdie]

The problem with nuclear war is that nobody can ever win one. Even if only one party would send their nukes to the other side, and the other side would not retaliate, both would be destroyed.

If Russia would send it's arsenal to the USA, million of US citizens would die instantly. The are the lucky ones. The rest would die of hunger, just like the most Russian folks, who were not even exposed to the nukes or radiation. The same applies the other way around.

During the cold war era, there was a moment of epiphany. Scientists from both sides joined together as they were intelligent enough to see the far larger thread than what nuclear war was expected to present. This co-operation made Reagan and Russian counterparts to think over and to realise that neither party would never win the war.

Mutually Assured Destruction is really what it says. However it doesn't just apply to the countries who are being nuked, it applies to all of us. Even us, who are thousands of kilometres from the blast sides.

Simplifying: Cities have a lot of combustible material. Nukes create huge fires. These fires shoot dust all the way to the stratosphere, on top of the troposphere, where rain can't clear the air with rain. Earth is covered with dust, which blocks the radiation from the Sun.

Global temperatures drop significantly. Plants can't cope with the cold and lack of sunlight. Plants die. Animals don't have plants to eat. Animals die. Humans don't have neither plants nor animals to eat. Not to forget that the infrastructure we used to have, have collapsed. Humans die of hunger.

This is a old, but informative video from the era when we used to be smarter.

The number of nuclear atmospheric explosions 1945 - 1992

As of 1993, worldwide, 520 atmospheric nuclear explosions (including 8 underwater) have been conducted with a total yield of 545 Megaton (Mt): 217 Mt from fission and 328 Mt from fusion

Nuclear warheads

Nine countries together possess more than 15,000 nuclear weapons. The United States and Russia maintain roughly 1,800 of their nuclear weapons on high-alert status ready to be launched within minutes of a warning.

Thanks for sharing, I remember watching that years ago but it was good to

Watch again.

Why does man kind allow Moronic politicians worldwide to lead us all to the approaching abyss ?

[Gene1960]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

It's sickening to hear this analysis and calculations of the loses in WWIII. There will be no America after the nuclear Armageddon. Maybe my grandkids in Thailand have a chance to survive. Maybe not.

It's insane to think that the nuclear war can be won by any side.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Gene1960]

When Soviets put foot on the stolen land, they will try to never give it back. This doctrine is valid today especially with this apparatchik Putin. Finland should join NATO and Putin will do nothing significant knowing that US is behind all NATO moves. Russia needs peace to deal with huge internal problems. He also knows that if war erupts, Russia could face two fronts. One in the west by NATO and in the Far East by US alliances there. No a good prospect at all. China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. Maltus will be right again. What about the Middle East? Probably all that region will become Islamized and all other people "vaporized".

I think that just words-threads-sanctions-closing oil pipelines-could be the worst scenario of what could happen before all is accepted by them as a status quo. Eventually will.

" China might get to be involved, but that would be WWIII with casualties in hundreds of millions. "

For China, that might be an affordable price to pay to acquire such vast natural resources and extend its borders north to the Arctic Sea and west the Urals.

And if it came to WWIII, Russia would be finished. Their nuclear arsenal is the only thing that gets them any respect in the world. They contribute nothing to mankind. If they use their nukes, lose at least 2/3 of its territory and maybe that much of its population, it would become an absolute meaningless 3rd world state with some subs roaming the depths of the oceans.

The USA would come out weaker too, but still stronger than most. There is no territory for them to gain in any of this. With a smaller population and ,military (good thing it is spread out across the planet) they won't be the super power they once were.

China has he most to gain. Would the Chinese leadership risk 1/3 of its population (about 500 million) to become the #1 military superpower and most likely #1 economic power? OK, maybe not #1 economic power if so many if its customers are killed.

You are deluded enough to believe that crap. If a nuclear exchange every population on the planet will be reduced by 90+% . You will pick up the pieces in your stone age society. it will take us 1000+ years to get back to where we are in time to blow ourselves back to the stone age. And repeat again. We learn nothing. Believe all the crap the ruling elites tell us. Anyone that tells you different is a communist , Religious Fanatic or Capitalist Exploitist depending on which view you have been brain washed to believe. The truth is to question everything you believe. And once the clouds lift from you mind you will see Left or Right it is the same people manipulating your thoughts. We are but sheep but one Day the Sheep will awaken and the lies of the Wolves will be exposed.

Can you re-write that where you sound sane?

After years of neglect most Russian nukes will never make it to their destinations leaving the US only partially destroyed. Russia, they are goners. China? Don't have to do anything other than pick up pieces.

.

Please educate yourself first about the Russian Nuclear arsenal and the recent program of rearmament. Putin spent a lot of money on the nukes during the past few years, ignoring the fact that his subjects are fighting with poverty. I am sure that all the talks about rusty warheads is Putin's "maskirowka".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk