UK Pension -Proof of Life

[Jip99]

Jip99 post # 58

Not so many as that on the life form.

And do retired Farangies here bring their official rubber stamp with them, I didn't.

Kwasaki - the letter from DWP quotes 7 occupations - it is out of date. Look on the DWP website, it confirms that anyone who can countersign a UK passport application can certify a Life Certicate.

A rubber stamp is not necessary!

(I did have one made though .... 100 Bt )

[Jip99]

FAO Kwasaki

4. Report a change in your circumstances

Report changes (eg change of address or bank details) to the International Pension Centre by phone or in writing - don’t send changes by email.

If you’re asked to fill in a ‘life certificate’

You may get a ‘life certificate’ form from the Department for Work and Pensions to check you’re still eligible for the State Pension.

You need to get the form signed by a witness. The instructions are on the form.

Your witness doesn’t have to live in the UK or have a passport from any specific country.

The people who can sign the form are the same as those who can ‘countersign’ a passport photo.

Your payments may be suspended if you don’t send the form back.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances

[vogie]

I just received the same form, my local Pharmacist signed it for me

Yes, Pharmacists are on the list among many other acceptable signees but I was asking if anyone else is getting refusals from Bangkok Bank.

Just going Bangkok Bank today local police didn't have a rubber stamp.

If my bank don't do it I'll take out extension money and change the 4 weekly pension payment to elsewhere.

The other thing was the form took nearly 4 weeks to get to me, good job they give us 8 weeks.

Just back from Bangkok bank the lady who signed the form last time who can read and write English wasn't there and no else would do it and said go private hospital, where left the form for the doctor.

The hospital rang later and said we have to get government to sign it.

Local pharmacy said in Thailand they are not allowed to sign it.

Maybe they think the form from UK has something to do with voodoo.

Got mine signed by the local dentist, he didn't even want paying, so left a few hundred baht with his receptionist.

[Kwasaki]

Jip99 post # 58

Not so many as that on the life form.

And do retired Farangies here bring their official rubber stamp with them, I didn't.

Kwasaki - the letter from DWP quotes 7 occupations - it is out of date. Look on the DWP website, it confirms that anyone who can countersign a UK passport application can certify a Life Certicate.

A rubber stamp is not necessary!

(I did have one made though .... 100 Bt )

Yeah l did take the letter literally you can sign & stamp mine next time.

[Jip99]

Just going Bangkok Bank today local police didn't have a rubber stamp.

If my bank don't do it I'll take out extension money and change the 4 weekly pension payment to elsewhere.

The other thing was the form took nearly 4 weeks to get to me, good job they give us 8 weeks.

Just back from Bangkok bank the lady who signed the form last time who can read and write English wasn't there and no else would do it and said go private hospital, where left the form for the doctor.

The hospital rang later and said we have to get government to sign it.

Local pharmacy said in Thailand they are not allowed to sign it.

Maybe they think the form from UK has something to do with voodoo.

Got mine signed by the local dentist, he didn't even want paying, so left a few hundred baht with his receptionist.

Amazing really. DWP have no idea of the 'status' of a dentist etc in Nakhon Nowhere and I am 99% sure that they would not bother to follow up on such a certifier.

I think it shows the lip service paid to this process, which is a 'soft' check that you are still alive.

I can accept the argument that it is a pointless exercise anyway for Thailand. A Farang death in Thailand has to be reported to police within 24 hours (who in turn advise the embassy) and for a death in hospital the body cannot be removed for cremation until the authority of the British Embassy has been obtained. The British Embassy advise the UK authorities because I have seen pension payments stopped almost immediately. No doubt there will be exceptions.............

[Shoeless Joe]

There seems to be a misunderstanding among many TV posters.

The "Life Certificate" does NOT have to be witnessed by a Thai person and as Jip99 said, the list of "suitable" people goes far beyond that on the DPW information form CF(N)698 because the DPW website was updated as follows:

Since 7 November, 2013, the Life Certificate signing service passed from the British Embassies to a full and varied list of professionals.This is the same as the list of people who can ‘countersign’ a UK passport application, with the important difference that the person who countersigns a Life Certificate does not need to live in the UK, or have a British or Irish passport. Countersignatories must work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession or be ‘a person of good standing in their community’. The full list is on the DWP website - here is the link: https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories

Regards,

Joe

Edited July 7, 2016 by Shoeless Joe

[mickba]

......................

The one before that took 3 weeks to arrived and was required

to be returned in 4 weeks from date it was posted,had to send

it EMS,this last on has an 8 weeks return date,which is more

sensible.

regards Worgeordie

For forms like this my daughter uses a (free) Pdf Converter App and I receive it the same day.

It's indistinguishable from the original, whether that matters or not.

Then I complete and sign it (in blue ink) and return it by SMS to her for her to return in the envelope supplied (or not).

Edited July 7, 2016 by mickba

[Jip99]

......................

The one before that took 3 weeks to arrived and was required

to be returned in 4 weeks from date it was posted,had to send

it EMS,this last on has an 8 weeks return date,which is more

sensible.

regards Worgeordie

For forms like this my daughter uses a (free) Pdf Converter App and I receive it the same day.

It's indistinguishable from the original, whether that matters or not.

Then I complete and sign it (in blue ink) and return it by SMS to her for her to return in the envelope supplied (or not).

Your post suggests that perhaps your letter goes to the UK?

Apologies if I have misinterpreted that, but I have assumed that you are in Thailand and your daughter is in the UK where your post goes to.

[Kwasaki]

......................

The one before that took 3 weeks to arrived and was required

to be returned in 4 weeks from date it was posted,had to send

it EMS,this last on has an 8 weeks return date,which is more

sensible.

regards Worgeordie

For forms like this my daughter uses a (free) Pdf Converter App and I receive it the same day.

It's indistinguishable from the original, whether that matters or not.

Then I complete and sign it (in blue ink) and return it by SMS to her for her to return in the envelope supplied (or not).

So l digest this as you in Thailand get the form sent by your daughter in UK via your computer and print it.

You fill out the form scan it and send it back to your daughter who prints it off and post it in UK, sounds good but am l right.

[billd766]

I went to the amphur police station this afternoon with my wife and a neighbour who speaks a bit better English than my wife and got it signed there.

The police captain who signed it can only speak a bit of English and probably cannot read it but he has done it before and his boss told him to remember what to do.

Damn I forgot to take those 3 cold cans of Leo back home with me.

They should be safe enough in police custody I suppose.

I guess Bill things like this is easier for farangies living in places like Bangkok, CM etc.

Pleased for you, my expedition started with the first visit to the pharmacy, him saying we in Thailand are not allowed to do this.

The local dentist wanted 2000 baht.

Right police next, that didn't work as they didn't have anything to stamp the form with, so they say.

OK then l thought back to Bank where a staff lady sign & stamped it before, she was not there and another lady said they are not allowed to do anymore.

As l posted before next stop private hospital doctor who didn't want to know, said go government office but they were shut by then.

On way back home saw the Thai lady doctors surgery was open who l had been to see a couple of times, she can read and write English, she read through the my letter, said OK, filled out, signed & stamped the life form, phew job done 200 baht.

If you scan the completed form into your computer it is always a handy reference for next time.

ps The police were cheaper. 3 cold cans of Leo were only 120 baht but that is rural rates.

[jonesthepost]

You people make a hard job out of a simple task. Just take the form to one of the persons on the list ask if they could sign it for you then off to the P.O. send it off long tabein 89 baht easy

[thai3]

sad that uk pensioners have to run around grovelling to dentists and local cops just to prove they are still alive, there should be an easier way.

[Jip99]

sad that uk pensioners have to run around grovelling to dentists and local cops just to prove they are still alive, there should be an easier way.

There is.

[canopus1969]

Have learnt today Banks cannot sign - they have been instructed not to

[billd766]

You people make a hard job out of a simple task. Just take the form to one of the persons on the list ask if they could sign it for you then off to the P.O. send it off long tabein 89 baht easy

And if that person will not sign it, what do you do then? Find somebody else and so on down the line?

You obviously don't live in rural Thailand.

Having said that my wife called the Pu Yai Ban who wasn't available for a couple of days as he was elsewhere. We then went to the amphur but the GOM there took 30 minutes to tell my wife that as far as he was concerned it had to be translated into Thai.

Then we went 100 metres up the road to the police station. We explained the problem and the officer told us to come back the next day which we did.

The form was completed in less than 15 minutes and I left 3 cold cans of Leo behind.

I went to the post office this morning after scanning the form last night and posted it airmail to the UK with about 5 weeks left before it was due there.

Airmail cost 17 baht.

EMS was 1,300 baht.

[thai3]

Forgery you mean ?

[thai3]

I used to just make them up, never any come back

[SantiSuk]

An example of where planning ahead helps. Haven't had one to do yet. If you do know any other farangs, always useful to find out what there profession was. I'm sure there are quite a few ex-civil servants around, for instance, who could sign. I have a retired dentist and a policeman available.

I'm a retired UK chartered accountant and would be happy to do it for anyone in my area (Ubon/Sisaket). But retired professionals do not have stamps - do they? (I certainly do not). Perhaps I can make one up - anyone know where I can buy a John Bull printing kit? I'll try my local amphur town stationery shop I guess.

My state pension started in February this year and I received my first request on 25th Jun (letter dated 12th June). I know quite a number of expat working teachers and a retired Chartered Surveyor but I guess none of them will have stamps either.

[SantiSuk]

Jip99 post # 58

Not so many as that on the life form.

And do retired Farangies here bring their official rubber stamp with them, I didn't.

Kwasaki - the letter from DWP quotes 7 occupations - it is out of date. Look on the DWP website, it confirms that anyone who can countersign a UK passport application can certify a Life Certicate.

A rubber stamp is not necessary!

(I did have one made though .... 100 Bt )

"A rubber stamp is not necessary"

[source? Will call DWP if you don't have a cast-iron reference or you and others have successfully submitted without a stamping. Sorry to be skeptical but why would the DWP letter I just received state that one is required?]

[SantiSuk]

Ok you are telling me this - same as Jipp was when I asked the question, but you do not explain why you are confident of that assertion. So, I repeat, source please for this statement?

I don't understand your last sentence Transam. What is a 'sponsor' in this context? I don't see that term used anywhere on the Life Certificate or attached information. All I know is that whoever acts as a witness to the Life Certificate would be signing a confirmation (inter-alia) that "I have placed my official stamp on this form".

Maybe there are different standards applied to different certificates related to "UK pension - Proof of Life" which is a generic term used in the thread title that would cover any pension state or private. Clearly respondents to this thread are in both camps of state and private when relaying their experiences.

Edited July 7, 2016 by SantiSuk

[Jip99]

Jip99 post # 58

Not so many as that on the life form.

And do retired Farangies here bring their official rubber stamp with them, I didn't.

Kwasaki - the letter from DWP quotes 7 occupations - it is out of date. Look on the DWP website, it confirms that anyone who can countersign a UK passport application can certify a Life Certicate.

A rubber stamp is not necessary!

(I did have one made though .... 100 Bt )

"A rubber stamp is not necessary"

[source? Will call DWP if you don't have a cast-iron reference or you and others have successfully submitted without a stamping. Sorry to be skeptical but why would the DWP letter I just received state that one is required?]

Just because there is a space for a stamp does not mean you have to fill it.

All my details fit on the left hand side and YES I had certificates accepted without a stamp.

Ironically, I now have a stamp (acquired for a different purpose from a local print shop for 100 Baht) so I put it where the space.

Don't get bogged down with the detail - this is not an academic exercise. It is just an exercise to prevent pensions continuing to be paid after death.

I am sure that if (like a poster above) you signed it off Mickey Mouse and put ACCA or CIMA after the signature it would be accepted at DWP.

[Jip99]

Ok you are telling me this - same as Jipp was when I asked the question, but you do not explain why you are confident of that assertion. So, I repeat, source please for this statement?

I don't understand your last sentence Transam. What is a 'sponsor' in this context? I don't see that term used anywhere on the Life Certificate or attached information. All I know is that whoever acts as a witness to the Life Certificate would be signing a confirmation (inter-alia) that "I have placed my official stamp on this form".

Maybe there are different standards applied to different certificates related to "UK pension - Proof of Life" which is a generic term used in the thread title that would cover any pension state or private. Clearly respondents to this thread are in both camps of state and private when relaying their experiences.

I believe (but will stand corrected) that this thread was intended to be about DWP pensions i.e. the UK State Pension. That is good because all the information quoted is available on their websit for all to access.

I fully accept that there are also private pension life certificates that will be required. The rules here are individual to each pension provider and probably not available on a website.

I have always held the view that if I am 'qualified' to countersign a UK passport application (probably one of the most valuable documents you will ever possess) then I sure am qualified that somebody is alive!

[SantiSuk]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

[Shoeless Joe]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

Would be grateful if you let us know the result of your 'phone call...

Also does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of the "Life Certificate"?

Thanks,

Joe

Edited July 7, 2016 by Shoeless Joe

[brexiteer]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

-.

Edited July 7, 2016 by brexiteer

[brexiteer]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

Would be grateful if you let us know the result of your 'phone call...

Also does anyone have a link to a downloadable version of the "Life Certificate"?

Thanks,

Joe

I searched last week Joe and couldn't find one.

Best bet is to ask someone to scan a PDF copy to you.

[brexiteer]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

Double post

Edited July 7, 2016 by brexiteer

[Jip99]

I wasn't questioning whether you were qualified to sign as a witness Jip, just whether the witness needed to have a stamp.

Ok so you two (Jip and Transam) are confirming that you have both signed off as witnesses on someone else's DWP Life Certificate without appending a stamp and in both cases you are confident that DWP has accepted it.

Hope I got the facts straight now?

Yup - I maybe being bureaucratic but it's being received by bureaucrats and I still don't quite trust that they all their receiving staff will consistently for all time ignore an apparent stated requirement; given that a rejection might lead me or someone I sign for to suffer loss of pension for a time while a revised form is sent in. So I think I'll phone them and find out, telling them I have been asked to witness for someone and I'm sufficiently qualified but don't have an official stamp.

No offense taken anywhere Santisuk.

Apologies if it sounded like I was overplaying my qualifications - that was not the intention, I was just trying to say that if I was considered 'suitable' to countersign a passport application then I was certainly suitable for certifying that someone was still alive.

I was trying to underplay the bureaucracy because I have always found DWP extremely helpful and I am convinced that this is a 'soft' monitoring system. I really doubt there is much due diligence when the forms get back.

Your call will be an interesting test of my relaxed approach to the DWP and this process.

[mickba]

......................

The one before that took 3 weeks to arrived and was required

to be returned in 4 weeks from date it was posted,had to send

it EMS,this last on has an 8 weeks return date,which is more

sensible.

regards Worgeordie

For forms like this my daughter uses a (free) Pdf Converter App and I receive it the same day.

It's indistinguishable from the original, whether that matters or not.

Then I complete and sign it (in blue ink) and return it by SMS to her for her to return in the envelope supplied (or not).

So l digest this as you in Thailand get the form sent by your daughter in UK via your computer and print it.

You fill out the form scan it and send it back to your daughter who prints it off and post it in UK, sounds good but am l right.

Not sure LOL....try this :-

Daughter in UK receives form.

She converts to Pdf and emails to me.

I print off Pdf form and complete in (blue) ink.

If whoever needs original then I post back by EMS, usually via my daughter so I know it got to UK (plus she may have a return envelope).

She posts it back to whoever.

If whoever does not need original then I just scan and return by email.

Very fast.

[Jip99]

......................

The one before that took 3 weeks to arrived and was required

to be returned in 4 weeks from date it was posted,had to send

it EMS,this last on has an 8 weeks return date,which is more

sensible.

regards Worgeordie

For forms like this my daughter uses a (free) Pdf Converter App and I receive it the same day.

It's indistinguishable from the original, whether that matters or not.

Then I complete and sign it (in blue ink) and return it by SMS to her for her to return in the envelope supplied (or not).

So l digest this as you in Thailand get the form sent by your daughter in UK via your computer and print it.

You fill out the form scan it and send it back to your daughter who prints it off and post it in UK, sounds good but am l right.

Not sure LOL....try this :-

Daughter in UK receives form.

She converts to Pdf and emails to me.

I print off Pdf form and complete in (blue) ink.

If whoever needs original then I post back by EMS, usually via my daughter so I know it got to UK (plus she may have a return envelope).

She posts it back to whoever.

If whoever does not need original then I just scan and return by email.

Very fast.

So the DWP think you are in the UK ?