phuketandsee Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Does anyone have any reliable information on the current status of the crumbling columns at Jungceylon? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I am sure the 'authorities' don't want to talk about this while they plaster up and duct tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 We use to go there every Sat or Sun and eat at Fuji and maybe see a movie or shop. Family of 4, average day about 5000 Baht. Haven't been there since the "problem" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazinoz Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Was there last week. The center area between the 2 building closed off but no other info than that sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinot Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The center area under the big awning is closed down. You must walk around it. Otherwise, most places are open although I don't know about McDonald's. I see no way to get this fixed anytime soon. It's interesting the way they found out about this...someone anonymously tipped off the authorities. Management had to know about this and were doing nothing. Quality Thai construction. Nothing is built according to spec's in Thailand. Thinking about buying a condo...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpolar Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) The center area under the big awning is closed down. You must walk around it. Otherwise, most places are open although I don't know about McDonald's. I see no way to get this fixed anytime soon. It's interesting the way they found out about this...someone anonymously tipped off the authorities. Management had to know about this and were doing nothing. Quality Thai construction. Nothing is built according to spec's in Thailand. Thinking about buying a condo...? Most condos in bangkok at least are built by large companies that have a good international presence. They bank on building a long-standing legacy for the future generations of little hisos i wouldnt worry about those large companies. Edited July 6, 2016 by bearpolar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTIRIOS Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 ...not reassuring.... ...the one difference with many other places is...this is obvious...others less so..... ...also gotta wonder about parking lots filled to 2x capacity as a regular practice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The center outdoor area between the two buildings remains closed. The basement area with all the shops and food court is also closed, and the entrance from the parking garage has been paneled over so that it looks like it was never there. I noticed furniture from at least one basement massage shop piled up in the parking garage near the motorbike entrance. It doesn't look like those areas are going to reopen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The center outdoor area between the two buildings remains closed. The basement area with all the shops and food court is also closed, and the entrance from the parking garage has been paneled over so that it looks like it was never there. I noticed furniture from at least one basement massage shop piled up in the parking garage near the motorbike entrance. It doesn't look like those areas are going to reopen anytime soon. So it looks like this big problem is being taken seriously. I guess they hope it was just a bad few batches of concrete on a few pillars. If systematic then it will be demolish Junceylon time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR8fun in LOS Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 As stated above the open central area, between the 2 circular buildings has been closed-off since the "small problem" became obvious. Visitors have to walk along the internal roadway outside the building to travel between the 2 major buildings. The restaurants and shops facing onto the central area are closed but others remain open. The bridge area into Robinsons is open and you can go past the brewery site to access the back road but not the shops nearby. The Thai shopping area downstairs is almost all open, only those shops close to the entrance from the car-park are closed and access is boarded up. The car-park is still operating almost normally with access available from most access points including the external one near Robinsons. However it does pose a number of questions as to how the poor quality workmanship could have been allowed. It almost looks as if inferior quality concrete was used and almost certainly not vibrated when the piers were poured. Are there any others in the same condition? It seems strange that the problem is only in an isolated area and not in a major load bearing area. TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I'm not a structural engineer (although I did play one on TV) but I will guess all the water in the fountain and surrounding areas probably didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 "Are there any others in the same condition? It seems strange that the problem is only in an isolated area and not in a major load bearing area". I would assume the problem is almost certainly not isolated and will extend to major load-bearing elements. I highly doubt they have engaged an experienced, well qualified team of engineers to inspect the entire building since this would have meant hiring foreigners and we know how the Thais love to do that. Also so much of the structure is hidden. Has anyone seen signs of major construction work going on e.g. concrete trucks in the vicinity? At the very least those columns in the early photographs would need to be replaced as patching is unlikely to be an option. Of course I mean a proper option, I'm sure it's an option for the idiots running this place. Does anyone have contacts with local engineers, architects or contractors to see what the grapevine can tell us? I am disappointing the Gazette and News aren't pushing on this and it is unfortunate Phuketwan is no longer with us. I think this is a catastrophe in the making and will be severely limiting my visits, if indeed I make any at all. I seriously recommend others do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Jungceylon - a real life version of the Jenga game, where the stakes are higher than a lady drink. Which pole will give way first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaWatcher Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The silence on this, and the "shadow" in the tunnel, is deafening, I have raised both on various forums, with no reply, seems the media aren't interested, or have been warned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geisha Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I cant remember who built junk Ceylon. I know there were hold ups because of the tsunami. Any idea which construction firm built it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Yep. Nice to be so secure in smug belief Thailand is so deficient. Oh ! But wait..... http://io9.gizmodo.com/these-are-some-of-the-worst-architectural-disasters-in-512561209 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Andis this Thailand? http://listverse.com/2010/06/01/top-10-recent-american-industrial-disasters/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumbastheycome Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 And for the Ozzie wannabes......... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Gate_Bridge#Collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotswood_sewer_tunnel or.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longford,_Victoria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 So what's your point Dumbass? Do nothing and wait for dozens (or maybe hundreds) to be killed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Yep. Nice to be so secure in smug belief Thailand is so deficient. Oh ! But wait..... http://io9.gizmodo.com/these-are-some-of-the-worst-architectural-disasters-in-512561209 Interesting link, but how many of those incidents happened in this century, and in "A World Class Tourist Destination?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billythehat Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 "Are there any others in the same condition? It seems strange that the problem is only in an isolated area and not in a major load bearing area". I would assume the problem is almost certainly not isolated and will extend to major load-bearing elements. I highly doubt they have engaged an experienced, well qualified team of engineers to inspect the entire building since this would have meant hiring foreigners and we know how the Thais love to do that. Also so much of the structure is hidden. Has anyone seen signs of major construction work going on e.g. concrete trucks in the vicinity? At the very least those columns in the early photographs would need to be replaced as patching is unlikely to be an option. Of course I mean a proper option, I'm sure it's an option for the idiots running this place. Does anyone have contacts with local engineers, architects or contractors to see what the grapevine can tell us? I am disappointing the Gazette and News aren't pushing on this and it is unfortunate Phuketwan is no longer with us. I think this is a catastrophe in the making and will be severely limiting my visits, if indeed I make any at all. I seriously recommend others do the same. Reinforced concrete can fail due to inadequate or insufficient strength, leading to mechanical failure, or due to a decrease in its durability. A few reasons which cause failure may also be due to cracking, moisture and corrosion. The cracking of the concrete is inevitable, cracking allows moisture to penetrate and corrode the reinforcement, however this problem can be controlled to a certain point using appropriate reinforcement, control joints, curing methodology and concrete mix design. The concrete then cracks either under excess loading, or due to internal effects such as early thermal shrinkage when it cures. Ultimate failure leading to collapse can be caused by crushing of the concrete, when compressive stresses exceed its strength; by yielding or failure of the rebar, when bending or shear stresses exceed the strength of the reinforcement; or by bond failure between the concrete and the rebar. A concrete failure due to shortage in shear resistance is the most serious type of failure because shear failures are preceded by little, if any, deflections or cracking to give advance warning. This may happen when not providing the correct concrete strength or dimension and not providing the right amount of reinforcement or positioning it properly. In the case of the columns within Jung Ceylon, this may have been a contributing cause to the sudden failure of the structural columns although the column in the photo appeared to have collapsed vertically after suffering both simultaneous shear and axial failures. Some posters suggested some form of repair but reinstatements of this type of failure are very complicated and costly to the point of not being economic to do. If the failure is found to be localized and attendant structural members about the structural grid are deemed serviceable, partial demolition and rebuild could be one solution. As to who will pay, answers on a postcard please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shot Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 ^^^Thank you Cristina Sarla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 Yep. Nice to be so secure in smug belief Thailand is so deficient. Oh ! But wait..... http://io9.gizmodo.com/these-are-some-of-the-worst-architectural-disasters-in-512561209 Interesting link, but how many of those incidents happened in this century, and in "A World Class Tourist Destination?" And how many structures were kept open after warning signs were detected?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 What does this look like to you Billy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiantFan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 That exterior metal stabiliser bar doesn't seem to have worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billythehat Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 What does this look like to you Billy? 1465447593_1-org (1).jpg Difficult to comment as most of the main steel cannot be seen and the spacing of the links cannot be verified for compliance although i did notice that the links did not look like high tension steel (no ribs) and possibly less tha 10mm in diameter which would be a very serious cause for concern. Mild steel links should not be specified for main structural elements. The links form the cage to which the main steel is arranged and are an important part in the control of shear stress in both coulmns and beams. Concrete testing will also form an important component of any report concerning this type of structural callapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketandsee Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 What does this look like to you Billy? 1465447593_1-org (1).jpg Difficult to comment as most of the main steel cannot be seen and the spacing of the links cannot be verified for compliance although i did notice that the links did not look like high tension steel (no ribs) and possibly less tha 10mm in diameter which would be a very serious cause for concern. Mild steel links should not be specified for main structural elements. The links form the cage to which the main steel is arranged and are an important part in the control of shear stress in both coulmns and beams. Concrete testing will also form an important component of any report concerning this type of structural callapse. But doesn't it look like shear? I'm no expert but it looks like overloading with lateral shear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediaWatcher Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 And for the Ozzie wannabes......... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Gate_Bridge#Collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotswood_sewer_tunnel or.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longford,_Victoria OMG, 46 years for the bridge, 135 years for the sewer, and a failure, by a mutlinational (Esso), in 1998, to maintain their plant, geez mate, glad you could find something current, hate to think you'd have to go far back, in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 What does this look like to you Billy? 1465447593_1-org (1).jpg Difficult to comment as most of the main steel cannot be seen and the spacing of the links cannot be verified for compliance although i did notice that the links did not look like high tension steel (no ribs) and possibly less tha 10mm in diameter which would be a very serious cause for concern. Mild steel links should not be specified for main structural elements. The links form the cage to which the main steel is arranged and are an important part in the control of shear stress in both coulmns and beams. Concrete testing will also form an important component of any report concerning this type of structural callapse. But doesn't it look like shear? I'm no expert but it looks like overloading with lateral shear. Compression has caused that pole to burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiantFan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Was trying to think back to when it first opened. Was the metal canopy installed or was it added later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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