Work Permit - Any requirement for minimum number of days in Thailand?

[Familyonthemove]

I've been working in Thailand for over 6 years for a BOI registered business that I set up for a US organization. I have a Work Permit that I renew each year together with my Visa. My company has suggested I also manage their operations in Europe and so I may be working in Europe and Thailand for the next 3 years. I need to maintain my Work permit in Thailand as I'll be working whenever I head back here, and longer term I plan to stay in Thailand. (I'm a British Citizen so the Europe end should be simple enough at the moment, but who knows in future!).

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

Any advice (or commiserations about going back to UK for half the year) welcome.

Thank you.

[ubonjoe]

There is no minimum amount of time you need to be in the country to have your work permit and/or your extension of stay.

The 180 days is only for being a resident here for tax purposes. Less than 180 days means you are not liable for Thai income tax.

[Bunnychow]

No there isnt, i guess you just need to be in Thailand during the renewal, the 180 days refers to being resident for tax purposes nothing to do with your WP

[Maestro]

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

By whom have you been told this?

[Familyonthemove]

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

By whom have you been told this?

The 180 days (and also a need to pay tax in Thailand) came from our office HR Manager - but she did say she wasn't sure - so was going ask the external lawyer. But I wanted a quick answer as I need to discuss the UK role with our US head office tomorrow. So the answer's here are very helpful for me. I'll get formal advice before making any moves - but knew I could get a quick answer on TV to help me decide. I guess I may become liable for UK tax, which is unfortunate as I've been out of UK for so long I no longer needed to do UK Tax Returns. I'll be working in UK, Brussels and Thailand (if it all happens) - but keen to maintain Thailand Work permit as I'm the Director of the local business (and I like it here!). I currently only go to UK for family visits and work meetings - couple of weeks a year.

[Bunnychow]

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

By whom have you been told this?

The 180 days (and also a need to pay tax in Thailand) came from our office HR Manager - but she did say she wasn't sure - so was going ask the external lawyer. But I wanted a quick answer as I need to discuss the UK role with our US head office tomorrow. So the answer's here are very helpful for me. I'll get formal advice before making any moves - but knew I could get a quick answer on TV to help me decide. I guess I may become liable for UK tax, which is unfortunate as I've been out of UK for so long I no longer needed to do UK Tax Returns. I'll be working in UK, Brussels and Thailand (if it all happens) - but keen to maintain Thailand Work permit as I'm the Director of the local business (and I like it here!). I currently only go to UK for family visits and work meetings - couple of weeks a year.

You will be paying tax in the UK almost certainly, if thats were they are basing you, if your not working in Thailand for periods you may not be liable for Thai tax, as like the UK, income tax is based on residency and there are reciprocal tax agreements in place between the UK and Thailand, given you will be working between multiple tax jurisdictions you need proper tax advice as it could bite you in the bum at some point

I would strongly recomend you consult an international tax lawyer/ company who are know both UK and Thai tax laws and get them to set things up properly for you such as PriceWaterhouse Coopers or similar

[scorecard]

Different point but maybe worth mentioning for the future.

You mentioned maybe you will retire in Thailand. If you have a work permit for several successive years and you can prove that your personal taxes have been totally finalized year by year then you have most of the requirements to qualify for Permanent Resident status. Just make sure you have copies of everything. Once gained no more visa extensions, no 30 day reporting, nothing!

Lots of arguments whether it's worth the cost but that discussion can come later. Ultimately your call longer-term of course.

Edited July 5, 2016 by scorecard

[Suradit69]

Different point but maybe worth mentioning for the future.

You mentioned maybe you will retire in Thailand. If you have a work permit for several successive years and you can prove that your personal taxes have been totally finalized year by year then you have most of the requirements to qualify for Permanent Resident status. Just make sure you have copies of everything. Once gained no more visa extensions, no 30 day reporting, nothing!

Lots of arguments whether it's worth the cost but that discussion can come later. Ultimately your call longer-term of course.

"no 30 day reporting"

You must have a really tough local immigration office.

[thaihome]

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

By whom have you been told this?

The 180 days (and also a need to pay tax in Thailand) came from our office HR Manager - but she did say she wasn't sure - so was going ask the external lawyer. But I wanted a quick answer as I need to discuss the UK role with our US head office tomorrow. So the answer's here are very helpful for me. I'll get formal advice before making any moves - but knew I could get a quick answer on TV to help me decide. I guess I may become liable for UK tax, which is unfortunate as I've been out of UK for so long I no longer needed to do UK Tax Returns. I'll be working in UK, Brussels and Thailand (if it all happens) - but keen to maintain Thailand Work permit as I'm the Director of the local business (and I like it here!). I currently only go to UK for family visits and work meetings - couple of weeks a year.

You will be paying tax in the UK almost certainly, if thats were they are basing you, if your not working in Thailand for periods you may not be liable for Thai tax, as like the UK, income tax is based on residency and there are reciprocal tax agreements in place between the UK and Thailand, given you will be working between multiple tax jurisdictions you need proper tax advice as it could bite you in the bum at some point

I would strongly recomend you consult an international tax lawyer/ company who are know both UK and Thai tax laws and get them to set things up properly for you such as PriceWaterhouse Coopers or similar

Agree to get international tax advice from knowledgeable firm. There is both personal and corporate tax implications as well as accounting issues across the entities involved.

Note, even if classified as non resident in Thailand (less then 180 days) one still owes tax on income earned in Thailand. This case is the classic justification for a split (on/off shore payroll).

TH

[Bunnychow]

But is there a minimum numbers of days that I need to spend in Thailand to maintain my Work Permit?

I can't find anything on various web sites about a minimum period - but I've been told that it's 180 days minimum in country?

By whom have you been told this?

The 180 days (and also a need to pay tax in Thailand) came from our office HR Manager - but she did say she wasn't sure - so was going ask the external lawyer. But I wanted a quick answer as I need to discuss the UK role with our US head office tomorrow. So the answer's here are very helpful for me. I'll get formal advice before making any moves - but knew I could get a quick answer on TV to help me decide. I guess I may become liable for UK tax, which is unfortunate as I've been out of UK for so long I no longer needed to do UK Tax Returns. I'll be working in UK, Brussels and Thailand (if it all happens) - but keen to maintain Thailand Work permit as I'm the Director of the local business (and I like it here!). I currently only go to UK for family visits and work meetings - couple of weeks a year.

You will be paying tax in the UK almost certainly, if thats were they are basing you, if your not working in Thailand for periods you may not be liable for Thai tax, as like the UK, income tax is based on residency and there are reciprocal tax agreements in place between the UK and Thailand, given you will be working between multiple tax jurisdictions you need proper tax advice as it could bite you in the bum at some point

I would strongly recomend you consult an international tax lawyer/ company who are know both UK and Thai tax laws and get them to set things up properly for you such as PriceWaterhouse Coopers or similar

Agree to get international tax advice from knowledgeable firm. There is both personal and corporate tax implications as well as accounting issues across the entities involved.

Note, even if classified as non resident in Thailand (less then 180 days) one still owes tax on income earned in Thailand. This case is the classic justification for a split (on/off shore payroll).

TH

Yes of course, he will have Thai and UK sourced income, irrespective of the tax residency, therefore local tax would be payable in both cases, how much is payable is why you need someone who understands how to deal with working under 2 jurisdictions, if the UK leaves Europe and he works in Brussels he may have 3 jurisdictions to deal with, which if not done properly will get messy and most likely very expensive

[Familyonthemove]

Thank you - all very useful points.

And Scorecard - yes I may want to go for Thai Residency in future so that is another valuable point.

So looks like I can maintain my Thai Work permit even though I will be here less than 180 days - but may need to continue to pay tax in Thailand .... and paying local tax may be an advantage in the longer term.

To keep things (comparatively) simple I plan to have a UK salary to cover work in UK and Brussels and any other work that is not in Thailand, and a salary in Thailand for my Thai based work. The Brexit issue may straddle my time in UK - but there's just too many unknowns to worry about this aspect.

I'll need to be in Thailand each April/May to sign all the year end accounts and again in November for the Visa and Work Permit renewals. I also hope to be here in January as the UK winter is miserable!

We have a good accounting/legal advisor who has offices in Bangkok and London - so they can advise on the legal requirements and let me know the most tax efficient split - but sounds like I may need to pay tax at both ends. I'll put an update on here in case anyone else has similar questions.

Anything else I've missed?

Any other thoughts appreciated as it helps me to ask the right question (and to avoid asking the wrong ones and racking up fees with the lawyers).

[Bunnychow]

Thank you - all very useful points.

And Scorecard - yes I may want to go for Thai Residency in future so that is another valuable point.

So looks like I can maintain my Thai Work permit even though I will be here less than 180 days - but may need to continue to pay tax in Thailand .... and paying local tax may be an advantage in the longer term.

To keep things (comparatively) simple I plan to have a UK salary to cover work in UK and Brussels and any other work that is not in Thailand, and a salary in Thailand for my Thai based work. The Brexit issue may straddle my time in UK - but there's just too many unknowns to worry about this aspect.

I'll need to be in Thailand each April/May to sign all the year end accounts and again in November for the Visa and Work Permit renewals. I also hope to be here in January as the UK winter is miserable!

We have a good accounting/legal advisor who has offices in Bangkok and London - so they can advise on the legal requirements and let me know the most tax efficient split - but sounds like I may need to pay tax at both ends. I'll put an update on here in case anyone else has similar questions.

Anything else I've missed?

Any other thoughts appreciated as it helps me to ask the right question (and to avoid asking the wrong ones and racking up fees with the lawyers).

If your drawing a UK based salary...you will pay tax in the UK, same with a Thailand based salary tax will be payable, the trick is getting someone to work out the most tax efficent way of doing it, as you know if you get classed as resident in the UK for tax purposes you would be liable for income tax on your worldwide income, and thats where the reciprocal tax agreement between the UK/Thailand may come into play...and i will stop there, as thats about the limit of my "tax knowlege" as your case could be quite complicated LOL

[Familyonthemove]

If your drawing a UK based salary...you will pay tax in the UK, same with a Thailand based salary tax will be payable, the trick is getting someone to work out the most tax efficent way of doing it, as you know if you get classed as resident in the UK for tax purposes you would be liable for income tax on your worldwide income, and thats where the reciprocal tax agreement between the UK/Thailand may come into play...and i will stop there, as thats about the limit of my "tax knowlege" as your case could be quite complicated LOL

Thanks - my understanding is also limited, but I think that tax liability in Thailand is limited to the job function that relates to Thailand revenues only - and the UK/Thai agreement means that you only pay tax in Thailand on this salary component.

And the salary related to UK work is taxable in UK. So as you say - getting a practical but tax efficient split is important.

I also think (but I'm very sketchy on this part) that if I'm eligible for any UK pension it would have been based on my earnings 10 years ago when I left the UK .... but if I go back to UK for a few years the pension will be 'updated' to the latest salary? I'll also be paying into a new UK company pension scheme.

It's all a bit complicated and I'd rather just stay in Thailand to be honest - but when your company offers you a new opportunity, you can't really say "no thanks, I like it here". I also think I can do a decent job in UK as my experience of working in Asia has taught me some valuable lessons that I would not have picked up if I'd stayed in UK. I think managing a business in a different culture is great way to learn more about yourself (and I can also fix any screw-ups before the head office team in US get out of bed ).

[Maestro]

Get your hands on a copy of the double taxation agreement between the UK and Thailand. I figure it should be possible to download the English version from the UK government site and your accountant should be able to get the Thai version from the Thai revenue office.

[Bunnychow]

Get your hands on a copy of the double taxation agreement between the UK and Thailand. I figure it should be possible to download the English version from the UK government site and your accountant should be able to get the Thai version from the Thai revenue office.

No disagree, get your hands on a reputable international tax consultancy who are familar with both UK and Thai tax law and let them do it

the OP should not be trying a DIY set up given the possbile complexity of his situation, and the reciprocal tax agreement between the UK/Thailand is only a small part of this, all the agreement basically says there is an agreement in place, not how you should structure your tax affairs