Pension verification stamp from "Ministry of foreign affairs"

[hotchilli]

I have just re-newed my annual retirement visa for the period July 2016/2017
I have been resident in Thailand since 2009 without leaving the country.

I was informed by my local immigration office that next year my "pension verification letter" issued via post from the UK embassy will have to stamped on the reverse by the "Ministry of foreign affairs" before submission to my local immigration office.

Does anyone know what this process entails.
What do they do, what documents if any do they need to look at etc?
Does anyone have any real knowledge of this new process?

[Lamkyong]

which office ??

[ubonjoe]

That is only required at a couple of rogue immigration offices that I know of.

What they are referring to is having the consular officer's signature on the income letter verified by the consular affairs department of the MFA.

[hotchilli]

Post #2

The local immigration office in question is located at Rai Khing.. for the province of Nakhon Pathom

Post #3
The immigration officer actually pointed to the reverse side of my "pension verification letter" issued by the consular section at the UK embassy
not my "letter of income issued from pensions company in the UK"

[ubonjoe]

Post #2

The local immigration office in question is located at Rai Khing.. for the province of Nakhon Pathom

Post #3

The immigration officer actually pointed to the reverse side of my "pension verification letter" issued by the consular section at the UK embassy

not my "letter of income issued from pensions company in the UK"

The offices I am aware of are also offices on the outskirts to Bangkok where the consular affairs department is located, Before going to get the verification next year I suggest you check with them to see if it is actually required.

You call it a pension verification letter from the embassy which is the same as the income letter I mentioned. It does not really have to be pension income. The embassy website calls it a pension/income letter.

[OJAS]

Post #2

The local immigration office in question is located at Rai Khing.. for the province of Nakhon Pathom

Post #3

The immigration officer actually pointed to the reverse side of my "pension verification letter" issued by the consular section at the UK embassy

not my "letter of income issued from pensions company in the UK"

The offices I am aware of are also offices on the outskirts to Bangkok where the consular affairs department is located, Before going to get the verification next year I suggest you check with them to see if it is actually required.

You call it a pension verification letter from the embassy which is the same as the income letter I mentioned. It does not really have to be pension income. The embassy website calls it a pension/income letter.

That is a relief to hear!

It would obviously be a pain to have to travel to Bangkok each year for MFA income confirmation letter/affidavit certification purposes from places such as Chiang Mai and Phuket were this to become a national requirement.

Not to mention the difficulties which would clearly arise if whoever signed your Embassy letter/affidavit was not included in the MFA's list of approved consular officials for some reason and they were unable to provide the required certification as a result.

[hotchilli]

Thanks to all for your comments
I have sent an email to the UK embassy/consular section "[email protected]"

asking them for clarification on this matter, as nothing appears on their website giving instructions on how to apply by post for a "pension verification letter"
I hope they will shed some light on whether this is an "added extra" from my local immigration office or something new which is to become a national requirement in the near future.
I will post the reply for all to see

[ubonjoe]

Thanks to all for your comments

I have sent an email to the UK embassy/consular section "[email protected]"

asking them for clarification on this matter, as nothing appears on their website giving instructions on how to apply by post for a "pension verification letter"

I hope they will shed some light on whether this is an "added extra" from my local immigration office or something new which is to become a national requirement in the near future.

I will post the reply for all to see

They do not do a "pension verification letter" and immigration does not require one.

See here for "How to obtain a pension/income letter for Thai Immigration". https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

[OJAS]

I hope they will shed some light on whether this is an "added extra" from my local immigration office or something new which is to become a national requirement in the near future.

I can't ever see this becoming a national requirement in practice (I was referring purely hypothetically to this possibility in post #6). The MFA would almost certainly not welcome their Bangkok office being lain siege to by hordes of foreign retirees and husbands of Thai nationals who have descended on it from all 4 corners of LOS clutching Embassy income confirmation letters/affidavits for verification.

[hotchilli]

In response to post #8

Thank you for your reply, however you have me somewhat confused...
may I clarify what has happened in the past and was recently said to me:

My local immigration office INSIST on a pension verification letter from the embassy for the renewal of my retirement visa (this has been the case for the last 7 years without change).

This letter (in my case) is now obtained via post from the British embassy on production of the original letter from my pension company posted to my home address stating my annual pension income from the UK

This income/figure is stated on their letter of verification in GBP to be calculated at the immigration office into Thai baht at the time of renewal.
This figure must not be less than 65,000 Thai baht per month.

This time however the officer dealing with my renewal specifically stated that next year my "verification letter" written by the embassy had to be stamped on the reverse side by the Ministry of foreign affairs before going to the immigration for the renewal...
To be clear the immigration office do not and have never asked to see the original letter from my pension company, they only request the letter from the British embassy.

I do not know if this is the case for any other immigration offices nor do I know if this is going to be a new procedure in the coming year.
I can only state here what was said to me by the officer & was instructed to comply with for my next renewal...

your comments would be appreciated

[ubonjoe]

In response to post #8

Thank you for your reply, however you have me somewhat confused...

may I clarify what has happened in the past and was recently said to me:

My local immigration office INSIST on a pension verification letter from the embassy for the renewal of my retirement visa (this has been the case for the last 7 years without change).

This letter (in my case) is now obtained via post from the British embassy on production of the original letter from my pension company posted to my home address stating my annual pension income from the UK

This income/figure is stated on their letter of verification in GBP to be calculated at the immigration office into Thai baht at the time of renewal.

This figure must not be less than 65,000 Thai baht per month.

This time however the officer dealing with my renewal specifically stated that next year my "verification letter" written by the embassy had to be stamped on the reverse side by the Ministry of foreign affairs before going to the immigration for the renewal...

To be clear the immigration office do not and have never asked to see the original letter from my pension company, they only request the letter from the British embassy.

I do not know if this is the case for any other immigration offices nor do I know if this is going to be a new procedure in the coming year.

I can only state here what was said to me by the officer & was instructed to comply with for my next renewal...

your comments would be appreciated

He is not asking for a different letter just different wording for what you have been getting. The letter from the embassy is a verification of your pension/income.

The only thing different is the a part about the getting consular officers signature verified by the consular affairs department.

[4evermaat]

In other words, the same income affidavit that you have been getting for the past 7 years from uk embassy... Now local thai immigration wants a MFA signature/stamp on the back of it.

An extra, pain in the arse step...not sure why it would be needed or what it would prove.

Thanks for the report though.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Post #2

The local immigration office in question is located at Rai Khing.. for the province of Nakhon Pathom

Post #3

The immigration officer actually pointed to the reverse side of my "pension verification letter" issued by the consular section at the UK embassy

not my "letter of income issued from pensions company in the UK"

The offices I am aware of are also offices on the outskirts to Bangkok where the consular affairs department is located, Before going to get the verification next year I suggest you check with them to see if it is actually required.

You call it a pension verification letter from the embassy which is the same as the income letter I mentioned. It does not really have to be pension income. The embassy website calls it a pension/income letter.

That is a relief to hear!

It would obviously be a pain to have to travel to Bangkok each year for MFA income confirmation letter/affidavit certification purposes from places such as Chiang Mai and Phuket were this to become a national requirement.

Not to mention the difficulties which would clearly arise if whoever signed your Embassy letter/affidavit was not included in the MFA's list of approved consular officials for some reason and they were unable to provide the required certification as a result.

One easy work-around is to deposit the equilivent of 800k baht in a Thai bank account. It saves having to do all this "pension letter" stuff.

[hotchilli]

In other words, the same income affidavit that you have been getting for the past 7 years from uk embassy... Now local thai immigration wants a MFA signature/stamp on the back of it.

An extra, pain in the arse step...not sure why it would be needed or what it would prove.

Thanks for the report though.

Yes thank you at last for understanding my post...

Local immigration are now asking for the same letter as in previous years, proof of income/affidavit from the UK embassy , but with a stamp from the MFA on the reverse side which is an extra procedure.

This brings me back to my first post/question:

Does anyone know what this entails, does the MFA require any further information or is the stamp just a formality?

What documents if any do I need to provide or do I just go there with my "embassy letter"

And yes... for people outside/far from BKK who receive this letter via post (as I do) this could mean a trip into BKK and that would be a pain in the arse!!

[Maestro]

The stamp is just a formality, no extra documents required. The procedure is a verification and authentication of the consular officer's signature, which is on file at the MFA.

[hotchilli]

The stamp is just a formality, no extra documents required. The procedure is a verification and authentication of the consular officer's signature, which is on file at the MFA.

Thank you to all for the info....

But it does beg the question why does a signed, "impressed/stamped" original document from the British embassy need further authentication via the MFA

just to satisfy my local immigration?

I wonder if some people have been trying to pass-off some dodgy copies to them or something?

Again not sure if this going to become a national requirement or just localised to BKK area, as that would be a pain for people in the north & south...

Not sure the MFA are going to be happy with a waiting room full of customers every day either!

Regards to all posties

[4evermaat]

The stamp is just a formality, no extra documents required. The procedure is a verification and authentication of the consular officer's signature, which is on file at the MFA.

Thank you to all for the info....

But it does beg the question why does a signed, "impressed/stamped" original document from the British embassy need further authentication via the MFA

just to satisfy my local immigration?

I wonder if some people have been trying to pass-off some dodgy copies to them or something?

Again not sure if this going to become a national requirement or just localised to BKK area, as that would be a pain for people in the north & south...

Not sure the MFA are going to be happy with a waiting room full of customers every day either!

Regards to all posties

because this 'requirement' may not come into fruition (it is still a 'maybe' at this point), I would NOT worry too much now and instead wait until next year. Go early (I think you can start as early as 30 or 45 days from expiration date to renew extension) with the same paperwork you normally use. If they demand this new MFA certification, this will give you time to go to MFA office and retrieve it.

Can you also do retirement extension at main immigration office in Bangkok, or is it only at the local immigration that covers your housebook address [where you state that you are staying]?

We don't want you or other TV members to panic and nothing is official yet.

[gk10002000]

Post #2

The local immigration office in question is located at Rai Khing.. for the province of Nakhon Pathom

Post #3

The immigration officer actually pointed to the reverse side of my "pension verification letter" issued by the consular section at the UK embassy

not my "letter of income issued from pensions company in the UK"

The offices I am aware of are also offices on the outskirts to Bangkok where the consular affairs department is located, Before going to get the verification next year I suggest you check with them to see if it is actually required.

You call it a pension verification letter from the embassy which is the same as the income letter I mentioned. It does not really have to be pension income. The embassy website calls it a pension/income letter.

That is a relief to hear!

It would obviously be a pain to have to travel to Bangkok each year for MFA income confirmation letter/affidavit certification purposes from places such as Chiang Mai and Phuket were this to become a national requirement.

Not to mention the difficulties which would clearly arise if whoever signed your Embassy letter/affidavit was not included in the MFA's list of approved consular officials for some reason and they were unable to provide the required certification as a result.

One easy work-around is to deposit the equilivent of 800k baht in a Thai bank account. It saves having to do all this "pension letter" stuff.

of course the 800k route is an option for many people and is done by many people. I personally have no plans to do that since I have plenty of income and I do not trust putting that much money in a Thai bank, when instead that money can keep earning money in my USA brokerage accounts.

[Suradit69]

It would obviously be a pain to have to travel to Bangkok each year for MFA income confirmation letter/affidavit certification purposes from places such as Chiang Mai and Phuket were this to become a national requirement.

Not to mention the difficulties which would clearly arise if whoever signed your Embassy letter/affidavit was not included in the MFA's list of approved consular officials for some reason and they were unable to provide the required certification as a result.

One easy work-around is to deposit the equilivent of 800k baht in a Thai bank account. It saves having to do all this "pension letter" stuff.

of course the 800k route is an option for many people and is done by many people. I personally have no plans to do that since I have plenty of income and I do not trust putting that much money in a Thai bank, when instead that money can keep earning money in my USA brokerage accounts.

"I do not trust putting that much money in a Thai bank, when instead that money can keep earning money in my USA brokerage accounts. "

True so far for Americans and the US$, but that strategy has turned out to be painful for those who felt UK and Eurozone banks were a safer place to keep their pounds and Euros, and probably in the longer term for Aussies and their AUS$. Big dent in their certified incomes and their available monthly withdrawals in baht when those "safe" farang currencies and banks took a hit.

[soisanuk]

In response to post #8

Thank you for your reply, however you have me somewhat confused...

may I clarify what has happened in the past and was recently said to me:

My local immigration office INSIST on a pension verification letter from the embassy for the renewal of my retirement visa (this has been the case for the last 7 years without change).

This letter (in my case) is now obtained via post from the British embassy on production of the original letter from my pension company posted to my home address stating my annual pension income from the UK

This income/figure is stated on their letter of verification in GBP to be calculated at the immigration office into Thai baht at the time of renewal.

This figure must not be less than 65,000 Thai baht per month.

This time however the officer dealing with my renewal specifically stated that next year my "verification letter" written by the embassy had to be stamped on the reverse side by the Ministry of foreign affairs before going to the immigration for the renewal...

To be clear the immigration office do not and have never asked to see the original letter from my pension company, they only request the letter from the British embassy.

I do not know if this is the case for any other immigration offices nor do I know if this is going to be a new procedure in the coming year.

I can only state here what was said to me by the officer & was instructed to comply with for my next renewal...

your comments would be appreciated

Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration is requiring the MFA stamp on the Embassy Income Verification letter for those retirees applying for a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa when they enter on Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa and are using income as all or part of the 800k baht requirement. Those applications are sent to Bangkok for approval. For those that already have a Non-O Visa or are renewing their extensions, Chonburi Immigration is accepting the Embassy Income Letter as usual - no MFA stamp required.

[charliebadenhop]

So, I am an American, and I have a document from the Social Security office stating my yearly "income" from them.

Am I going to have to get this document verified by someone?

[ubonjoe]

So, I am an American, and I have a document from the Social Security office stating my yearly "income" from them.

Am I going to have to get this document verified by someone?

No you don't and there would be no place here that can verify it. You just need to do an income affidavit at the US embassy.

[thesetat2013]

In other words, the same income affidavit that you have been getting for the past 7 years from uk embassy... Now local thai immigration wants a MFA signature/stamp on the back of it.

An extra, pain in the arse step...not sure why it would be needed or what it would prove.

Thanks for the report though.

Yes thank you at last for understanding my post...

Local immigration are now asking for the same letter as in previous years, proof of income/affidavit from the UK embassy , but with a stamp from the MFA on the reverse side which is an extra procedure.

This brings me back to my first post/question:

Does anyone know what this entails, does the MFA require any further information or is the stamp just a formality?

What documents if any do I need to provide or do I just go there with my "embassy letter"

And yes... for people outside/far from BKK who receive this letter via post (as I do) this could mean a trip into BKK and that would be a pain in the arse!!

The mfa stamp is just the euro way of acknowledging that the document is legitimate in Thailand. It is a pain in the Arsenal for sure. You can get it stamped in one days time for a large fee. Normal processing can take a few days and they can also mail it to you if you request it. I believe normal processing is about 200 baht. Just the hassle of going to their office and requesting it

You need to do the same thing for certain paperwork went you want to marry a Thai.

[Mangostin]

An extra, pain in the arse step...not sure why it would be needed or what it would prove.

That's like the verification that you passport it's "true", they require from MFA, it would translate as a nice little earner for some and prove that the farangs can be squeezed out to no end for whatever silly reason someone will come up with.

It was an easy guess

[Psychic]

I was told by Hua Him Immigration that this new procedure came about because some people were forging the income verification letters from their embassies.

As I mentioned to UbonJoe in another thread, if that is the case, I can't see this stopping at a few local offices.

Which will swamp Chaeng Wattana if it goes national, not to mention the inconvenience to those far away from Bangkok.

I know this sounds outrageous since it involves technology and not sheets of paper and stamps, but couldn't Immigration simply open an online database where the embassies could post the details of anyone who receives a letter then they could simply check and verify that the one presented for an extension is valid?

[hotchilli]

I was told by Hua Him Immigration that this new procedure came about because some people were forging the income verification letters from their embassies.

As I mentioned to UbonJoe in another thread, if that is the case, I can't see this stopping at a few local offices.

Which will swamp Chaeng Wattana if it goes national, not to mention the inconvenience to those far away from Bangkok.

I know this sounds outrageous since it involves technology and not sheets of paper and stamps, but couldn't Immigration simply open an online database where the embassies could post the details of anyone who receives a letter then they could simply check and verify that the one presented for an extension is valid?

I was given much the same reason at my Nakhon Pathom office (Rai Khing)

They've been witnessing a rise in forgeries from applicants with regards to the "embassy verification letters" and said that next year they would require the MFA stamp on the reverse side.

In my case the British embassy have a red emblem on the letter which is embossed with the embassy seal/stamp which I would have thought to be hard to forge...

Also they provide an official receipt of payment, I would have thought that with the original letter & receipt in hand that would have sufficed

However they wish this new measure to come into action.

They did say it would be at a cost of 200 baht but didn't give a time frame for the service..

So I don't know if it's a case of turn up & wait for same day service or it can be done in some other way?

[hotchilli]

Just as a reminder I'm the original "postie" of this thread...
I sent an email to the British embassy asking for clarification regarding this new request/procedure

pasted below is the response from the embassy:

Dear Mr. Radford,

Thank you for your email.

We are not informed about any changes in the procedures of applying for a retirement visa. As of the moment, the letter you got from us is not required to be translated or stamped by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Immigration headquarter has not yet changed any procedures and I am afraid that your local immigration is enforcing something we or their headquarter do not know about.

If there is any changes we will let you know and we will raise this issue when we visit the headquarter in the near future.

Regards

Beau

Sincerely yours,

Supawan Puttapong

Pro Consul |British Embassy | 14 Wireless Road | Bangkok 10330

Tel +66 (0)2305 8318 | Fax +66 (0)2255 6051 | FTN 84192318 |Email : [email protected]

[gk10002000]

It would obviously be a pain to have to travel to Bangkok each year for MFA income confirmation letter/affidavit certification purposes from places such as Chiang Mai and Phuket were this to become a national requirement.

Not to mention the difficulties which would clearly arise if whoever signed your Embassy letter/affidavit was not included in the MFA's list of approved consular officials for some reason and they were unable to provide the required certification as a result.

One easy work-around is to deposit the equilivent of 800k baht in a Thai bank account. It saves having to do all this "pension letter" stuff.

of course the 800k route is an option for many people and is done by many people. I personally have no plans to do that since I have plenty of income and I do not trust putting that much money in a Thai bank, when instead that money can keep earning money in my USA brokerage accounts.

"I do not trust putting that much money in a Thai bank, when instead that money can keep earning money in my USA brokerage accounts. "

True so far for Americans and the US$, but that strategy has turned out to be painful for those who felt UK and Eurozone banks were a safer place to keep their pounds and Euros, and probably in the longer term for Aussies and their AUS$. Big dent in their certified incomes and their available monthly withdrawals in baht when those "safe" farang currencies and banks took a hit.

True but don't mix up currency devaluation with safety. I know my money in my various USA brokerage accounts are inside sound investments and that I can access those monies when needed. Putting money into Thailand just seems to come with too many issues.

[OJAS]

I was told by Hua Him Immigration that this new procedure came about because some people were forging the income verification letters from their embassies.

As I mentioned to UbonJoe in another thread, if that is the case, I can't see this stopping at a few local offices.

Which will swamp Chaeng Wattana if it goes national, not to mention the inconvenience to those far away from Bangkok.

I know this sounds outrageous since it involves technology and not sheets of paper and stamps, but couldn't Immigration simply open an online database where the embassies could post the details of anyone who receives a letter then they could simply check and verify that the one presented for an extension is valid?

I was given much the same reason at my Nakhon Pathom office (Rai Khing)

They've been witnessing a rise in forgeries from applicants with regards to the "embassy verification letters" and said that next year they would require the MFA stamp on the reverse side.

In my case the British embassy have a red emblem on the letter which is embossed with the embassy seal/stamp which I would have thought to be hard to forge...

Also they provide an official receipt of payment, I would have thought that with the original letter & receipt in hand that would have sufficed

However they wish this new measure to come into action.

They did say it would be at a cost of 200 baht but didn't give a time frame for the service..

So I don't know if it's a case of turn up & wait for same day service or it can be done in some other way?

I was most certainly NOT informed by Rayong Immigration when I applied for my latest retirement extension there yesterday that my British Embassy income confirmation letter would need to be verified by the MFA in Bangkok next year.

Whilst I do, of course, have every sympathy with the plight of those whose immigration offices are insisting on this requirement (Hua Hin plus a handful of offices in the Bangkok area??), I really do wonder whether we are talking about a storm in a teacup in the wider context here?

[Mobi]

Has anyone actually obtained a stamp from MOF yet?

Going on past experience - marriage affidavits and so on - they normally won't stamp anything if it isn't translated into Thai.