Warning-60 Visa Not Available In Myanmar Now

[dsfbrit]

Many, if not most of the bargirls work to send money to their poverty stricken family.

Dunno, seen quite a fair few who just pocket the money, spend it wildly and recklessly on themselves and then plead poverty shortly after the money runs out.

Hardly vermin in my opinion.

I suggest you look up the dictionary definition of vermin, you will see it applies quite nicely.

As for the girls that con people - you will come across those in all walks of life - not just in bars and certainly in Singapore as well.

I was talking about the people in general. Genuinely friendly and I find the girls are a LOT more attractive, plus there is no racism or xenephpobia there (racism is a serious offence in Singapore). People just get along together regardless of their skin colour.

I for one will be delighted when you leave.

Ahhhh, the old don't let the door slam you in the arse on your way out. Very constructive and friendly. I don't know how long you have been in Thailand or how much Thai you speak but it might pay to open your eyes a bit more, on second thoughts maybe you should just stay blinkered for a few more years in your false idyll. Anyway, fortunately I am wealthy enough that I can live anywhere I want and that may or may not be Thailand. Up to me...

Anyway have a nice trip bye bye.... I am sure all your friends will miss you.

Edited November 18, 2006 by dsfbrit

[smartecosse]

I can sure see where this is headed.

Falangs mai dee - get out.

BR

Actually, it's just the opposite. One falang who spends an average of Baht 150,000 a month is worth more than five border-runners or English "teachers" or dive instructors who get by on Baht 30,000 a month, most of which is not derived from foreign sources.

all those "english teachers and dive insts" are here year round working. Or do you propose that the guy on the full expat package in Bangkok simply pops over to the Similans every 3rd day to do some dive instrcution while teaching English every Mon & Tue evening.

no hang on your right - lets get rid off all the lower class people after all they just mess up the system don't they.

[Arkady]

As an issuer of Thai visas in Calgary, Canada, I constantly remind my clients that Thailand is run SUBJECTIVELY! This means that how the Thai official feels (mentally, physically and emotionally) has everything to do with whether they give a tourist what he/she requests. I always try to ensure that the client has the correct number and type of visa(s) PRIOR to entering the country - this is the only way they can be sure they don't need to travel to a neighbouring country to obtain further visas. Not surprised with the decision of the Embassies/C-G's in the neighbouring countries - working in these places gives them power - something most regular Thais don't often get to use!

Keep up the good work in reporting from LOS - your comments and articles have helped me immensely with information I cannot obtain from any other source (i.e.: the Thai Embassy in Ottawa or the C-G in Vancouver)

With very kind regards,

Francie Lorren

PA to the Consul-General

Royal Thai Consulate-General, Calgary, Canada

These are very surprising comments, even if true, from some one who purports to work for a Thai consulate. Her or his days are numbered if Nitaya or his boys look in here. Do consulate staff have clients?

[mitrapaap]

We all can be worried and sorry about these strange new rules. However let us not forget about what the thai citizens can experience everyday at our dear old farang consulates in Bangkok.

We can be ashamed.

No welcome.No information. A lot of papers and then NO...!

What can we expect from Thailand :

We get what we deserve

Not the smartest thing to see it that way,you can't compare that,Thailand is a 3rd world country,if Thais want to go to USA or Europe or Australia,they have most of the time different intentions then americans if apply for a tourist visa

Maybe getting the arrogant shit out or their country is the first step in becoming a first world country. (I'm always wondering why people think Thailand could not be compared to western countries while westerners constantly compare it, otherwise how could you come to the (rather silly) conclusion that it is a third world country?)). That's exactly the type of people they should get rid off. Let those stay here who can comply with, accept and respect the rules, because that are those who can respect the country and their people.

[footfall]

Sunbelt :

QUOTE

If he got a work permit then he would have to hire 4 thais to sit around and diddle themselves all day while he does his online trading for a few hours.

This not true. You do not need any Thais employed to get a work permit.

Think this will be on my tombstone

Here lies the Man, who

stated many times

"No Thai employees

needed to get a work permit"

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

How can a self-employed person (such as the guy working from home on the internet) get the WP without employing any Thais ?

[Arkady]

I can sure see where this is headed.

Falangs mai dee - get out.

BR

Thai Consulate in Hull, UK is still issuing visas at full steam ahead!

Hopefully it will continue to do so in spite of the difficulties in Thailands neighbouring SE Asian countries.

It's great that things are still working in Hull but why on earth does Thailand have a consulate there? Must be a good candidate for a cost cut.

What is happening now is a continuation of the "elite" card mentality of Thaksin and Purachai i.e. generally disliking non-Chinese foreigners but tolerating a few very wealthy ones. At the same time they, themselves, happily buy landed property in foreign countries and go for extended stays.

I tend to agree that it is hard to argue in favour of back to back tourist visas for people who actually live here. Few countries tolerate this. On the other hand, I think it would make sense at the same time to encourage long stayers to get proper visas by reintroducing investment visas and relaxing requirements for retirement, married visas and work permits (reduce to less than 4 Thai employees). The current policy is inconsistent with Thailand's tourism policy to attract long term tourists.

All I can say is I hope that Thaksin's diplomatic passport eventually gets revoked and he starts having problems with his own movements. Clearly he is the main architect of all this BS, altho it doesn't take much to whip up insular and xenophobic sentiment in other Thais.

[JR Texas]

If he got a work permit then he would have to hire 4 thais to sit around and diddle themselves all day while he does his online trading for a few hours.

This not true. You do not need any Thais employed to get a work permit.

Think this will be on my tombstone

Here lies the Man, who

stated many times

"No Thai employees

needed to get a work permit"

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

JR Texas (51, USA, in China): Reply to SunBelt Asia, Firefan, Maestro, Lopburi 1-3, etc: THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST. I just want to summarize my personal views and that will be that.

Thank you SunBelt Asia for helping to make this forum a reality. Also, thank you for helping me a few years ago.........you did an outstanding job. I highly recommend you to any person who needs legal advice in Thailand.

To the forum moderators: Sorry about being a problem..........I learned a lot from all of you. I do not envy you having to answer what will no doubt be a deluge of cries for help over the next two months.

My views.......maybe right or wrong:

a) the new visa/business rules are Thaksin's legacy and should be removed with him;

the new rules will hurt Thais more than foreign expats (especially poor Thais living in rural areas that make up the bulk of Thailand's population);

c) the new rules will cause damage to the real estate market and tourism;

d) the new rules have virtually nothing to do with crime;

e) the percentage of serious crimes committed by foreigners is likely to be less than 1% of total crime (and if measured by serious crimes by Westerners, even smaller);

f) the "visa runners" were not a problem and did pay taxes when they spent their money in Thailand and would likely go to jail if they did not pay taxes to their respective governments;

g) the new rules greatly hinder small scale business creation;

h) small scale businesses create most of the jobs on the planet, not large scale MNCs;

i) the new rules target those under 50 more than those over 50 and will cause the expat population to age, leading to potential problems down the road and perhaps an abrogation of the grandfathered laws if the govt. decides the elderly expats are no longer assets;

j) it is critical to speak out before they come knocking at your door.

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men."

--Abraham Lincoln

Good luck to all,

JR

[Arkady]

Sunbelt :

QUOTE

If he got a work permit then he would have to hire 4 thais to sit around and diddle themselves all day while he does his online trading for a few hours.

This not true. You do not need any Thais employed to get a work permit.

Think this will be on my tombstone

Here lies the Man, who

stated many times

"No Thai employees

needed to get a work permit"

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

How can a self-employed person (such as the guy working from home on the internet) get the WP without employing any Thais ?

Foreigners are not entitled to be self employed. They must be employees of a company. The four Thai employees rule is imposed by the Immigration Bureau not the Labour Ministry. Therefore permanent residents don't need to have four Thai employees since they don't have to apply to Immigration for anything in connection with their work permit. I have been told that people on investment visas also didn't need four Thai employees for the same reason i.e. they have already got past Immigration but this is academic for those who are not grandfathered into investment visas and no one knows how long the grandfathering will be good for anyway.

[thaigene2]

she informed that it had been determined that "You have traveled enough, the visa is not available

Yes - it's part of the 'sufficiency economy'. Thailand is 'sufficient' without you. There are enough thai-chinese families who are very sufficiently comfortable indeed with the way things are right now. Farangs are no longer welcome.

[footfall]

Foreigners are not entitled to be self employed. They must be employees of a company. The four Thai employees rule is imposed by the Immigration Bureau not the Labour Ministry. Therefore permanent residents don't need to have four Thai employees since they don't have to apply to Immigration for anything in connection with their work permit. I have been told that people on investment visas also didn't need four Thai employees for the same reason i.e. they have already got past Immigration but this is academic for those who are not grandfathered into investment visas and no one knows how long the grandfathering will be good for anyway.

Thanks for the reply, Arkady.

So, the essential point is the permanent residence ?

Is permanent residence difficult to come by ? (It might seem an attractive option for those who'd prefer self-employment.)

[SiriusBlack1]

When was this ? Their recently updated website has this certificate requirement added.

One week ago.

[lopburi3]

Foreigners are not entitled to be self employed. They must be employees of a company. The four Thai employees rule is imposed by the Immigration Bureau not the Labour Ministry. Therefore permanent residents don't need to have four Thai employees since they don't have to apply to Immigration for anything in connection with their work permit. I have been told that people on investment visas also didn't need four Thai employees for the same reason i.e. they have already got past Immigration but this is academic for those who are not grandfathered into investment visas and no one knows how long the grandfathering will be good for anyway.

Thanks for the reply, Arkady.

So, the essential point is the permanent residence ?

Is permanent residence difficult to come by ? (It might seem an attractive option for those who'd prefer self-employment.)

See pinned item at top of forum. PR is not a viable short term solution.

[Unknown]

So be for-warned!!!!!!!! Avoid Yangon.

Well, valid for any country, not only Yangon.

Just not available anymore...

[sonnyJ]

I have understood that from internet business you don't need to pay tax. My friend wanted to pay tax in Thailand and asked, they said no. This business is not based on Thailand in any way and is about investments. Is this really illegal?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I have understood that from internet business you don't need to pay tax. My friend wanted to pay tax in Thailand and asked, they said no. This business is not based on Thailand in any way and is about investments. Is this really illegal?

I think it depends on the country your getting paid in. Many countries like the US, UK, France etc have tax treaties with Thailand to outlaw double taxation. If you paying tax and filing tax returns in one of these countries with a tax treaty the the exact treatment of your income is pretty well defined.

So if your working and paying tax in the US for example then your tax liability is there and not here. The exception would be if you setup a company in Thailand and not liable for taxes of your revenue in the US. Also the extremely rare legal residency in Thailand would shift your tax liablity to the kingdom.

Sunbelt or Lopburi might have clarification but I am pretty sure you don't have to worry about any tax here in Thailand.

[dog412]

We all can be worried and sorry about these strange new rules. However let us not forget about what the thai citizens can experience everyday at our dear old farang consulates in Bangkok.

We can be ashamed.

No welcome.No information. A lot of papers and then NO...!

What can we expect from Thailand :

We get what we deserve

Not the smartest thing to see it that way,you can't compare that,Thailand is a 3rd world country,if Thais want to go to USA or Europe or Australia,they have most of the time different intentions then americans if apply for a tourist visa

Maybe getting the arrogant shit out or their country is the first step in becoming a first world country. (I'm always wondering why people think Thailand could not be compared to western countries while westerners constantly compare it, otherwise how could you come to the (rather silly) conclusion that it is a third world country?)). That's exactly the type of people they should get rid off. Let those stay here who can comply with, accept and respect the rules, because that are those who can respect the country and their people.

i can only hope you don't have children here. otherwise you will just be letting them be taught they are NOT true thais. you speak as the same as folks we used to call squares. just keep following the rules. however in this situation, you are NOT part of the Thai rules. you are a foreigner. or am i interpolating incorrectly.

[pmhmaster]

considering that the whole threat started because only one member couldnt get a TV some days ago, I´d like to know how many TVs WERE given the same day. Surely there is a point about changing immigration rules and how they handle recently, but I´d rather like to see the full picture. some positive experiences, granted TVs the last days in SE asia, oversea, some more negative?

[sonnyJ]

I have understood that from internet business you don't need to pay tax. My friend wanted to pay tax in Thailand and asked, they said no. This business is not based on Thailand in any way and is about investments. Is this really illegal?

I think it depends on the country your getting paid in. Many countries like the US, UK, France etc have tax treaties with Thailand to outlaw double taxation. If you paying tax and filing tax returns in one of these countries with a tax treaty the the exact treatment of your income is pretty well defined.

So if your working and paying tax in the US for example then your tax liability is there and not here. The exception would be if you setup a company in Thailand and not liable for taxes of your revenue in the US. Also the extremely rare legal residency in Thailand would shift your tax liablity to the kingdom.

Sunbelt or Lopburi might have clarification but I am pretty sure you don't have to worry about any tax here in Thailand.

This individual is getting paid to his japanese and malaysian accounts by the e-business based in Brunei. Guess it's taxfree there.

[gdhm]

Why waste time thinking about it? Just comply with the law.

Is that the law according to the Thai Police, Thai Immigration Bureau Head Office, The INDIVIDUAL Thai Embassies, The Individual Immigration regional Offices OR the individuals within the Individual Thai Embassies or Immigration Offices.

I am NOT being sarcastic but pointing out that whilst I agree with your comment it is TOO SIMPLISTIC.

For most of us the problem is NOT the Thai LAW, it is identifying what we need in each situation because it seems every Official is operating on : this is the Thai Law PLUS whatever we choose to decide"

NOT FAIR and NOT GOOD enough and very disorganised

Nobody knows where they stand or what is required of them. All we know is what is OFFICIALLY required of us and that is not much help on any given day.

Regards

Dave

[Firefan]

Sunbelt is of course right - one does not need 4 Thai employees to obtain a WP from the labour dept.

BUT one need it in order to obtain one year extensions of visa at EMMIGRATION-dept. - I.e. since we are discussing long stay in Thailand (and avoiding visa-runs, even 3 month visa runs) the 4 employees are needed to obtain same.

Cheers!

Edited November 18, 2006 by Firefan

[tpthai2]

I believe many would say the old system, where man had to support the wife, was harder. Now they can use either income and combine total income to make up the requirement.

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Lopburi 3: Many or some would say that the old system was harder. Many or some would say it was easier to put 400K in the bank than to come up with a way to show 40K per month, particularly if you are living in rural Thailand where most people don't make 5K per month. and where it is almost impossible to start a business that will allow you to earn 40K per month, especially when your Thai competition does not have to hire 4 Thais or jump through hoops.

The reasonable thing to do would have been to increase the options instead of removing what many or some would argue is a very good option: 400K in the bank (even better when it was 200K not long ago).

The real question is why it was removed when it had nothing to do with crime or visa runners. Can you say xenophobia? Can you say "social cleansing?" I hate that phrase, but it is one step above ethnic cleansing. Hopefully that will never be on their agenda. Year Zero In Thailand.

[tpthai2]

I believe many would say the old system, where man had to support the wife, was harder. Now they can use either income and combine total income to make up the requirement.

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Lopburi 3: Many or some would say that the old system was harder. Many or some would say it was easier to put 400K in the bank than to come up with a way to show 40K per month, particularly if you are living in rural Thailand where most people don't make 5K per month. and where it is almost impossible to start a business that will allow you to earn 40K per month, especially when your Thai competition does not have to hire 4 Thais or jump through hoops.

The reasonable thing to do would have been to increase the options instead of removing what many or some would argue is a very good option: 400K in the bank (even better when it was 200K not long ago).

The real question is why it was removed when it had nothing to do with crime or visa runners. Can you say xenophobia? Can you say "social cleansing?" I hate that phrase, but it is one step above ethnic cleansing. Hopefully that will never be on their agenda. Year Zero In Thailand.

A bit in the dark here. Last week I received my one year visa. (Marrage Visa) with the required 400K in the bank.

The posts seem to state that this is no longer a acceptable

qualification for the marrage visa extension of stay.

Can some one comment on this? Thank you.

[Firefan]

tpthai; no longer available for NEW applications. Cheers!

[tpthai2]

'Firefan' date='2006-11-18 20:31:16'

tpthai; no longer available for NEW applications. Cheers!

Thanks firefan: At this point do we know if it is currently

available for renewal? Or, wiped out completely?

Regards

[Maestro]

considering that the whole threat started because only one member couldnt get a TV some days ago, I´d like to know how many TVs WERE given the same day. Surely there is a point about changing immigration rules and how they handle recently, but I´d rather like to see the full picture.

You have a point there, pmhmaster. Over the past 12 months I have seen only 2 reports of a tourist visa having been refused, one in Phnom Penh, the other in Yangon as per original post in this thread. Many, in fact apparently most, Thai consulates since recently no longer issue tourist visas valid for more than one entry, except in the applicant’s home country. In the region, Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still grant double-entry visas, as per latest reports.

Based on the stamps in your passport, how long have you been in Thailand continuously – except for short trips to neighbouring countries to get a new visa – as a tourist?

I wonder if a reply to the above question, still awaited, will provide some insight as to why the OP was denied his new tourist visa.

---------------

Maestro

[brahmburgers]

As an issuer of Thai visas in Calgary, Canada, I constantly remind my clients that Thailand is run SUBJECTIVELY! This means that how the Thai official feels (mentally, physically and emotionally) has everything to do with whether they give a tourist what he/she requests. I always try to ensure that the client has the correct number and type of visa(s) PRIOR to entering the country - this is the only way they can be sure they don't need to travel to a neighbouring country to obtain further visas. Not surprised with the decision of the Embassies/C-G's in the neighbouring countries - working in these places gives them power - something most regular Thais don't often get to use!

Keep up the good work in reporting from LOS - your comments and articles have helped me immensely with information I cannot obtain from any other source (i.e.: the Thai Embassy in Ottawa or the C-G in Vancouver)

With very kind regards,

Francie Lorren

PA to the Consul-General

Royal Thai Consulate-General, Calgary, Canada

It's always nice to see a post from "the other side of the desk"....

Thank you for doing so.

Have a nice day there... and hope it's not a too chilly a Canadian night....

brrrrrrr....

Thanks Francie. You're backing what I've been saying for many moons - that Thai bureaucracy is indelibly SUBJECTIVE. Policy enactment has very little to do actual regualtions, but everything to do with APPEARANCES - WHO-YOU-KNOW, and how much money you represent. I'm here for the long term because I'm developing a farmstead in C.Rai. I have a visa renewal method that works well enough, but I keep it a secret because I'm sorely afraid that if the Thai authorities hear about a consolate that gives a hassle-free fair-minded visa to a farang - Thai immigration heavies will shut it down. Sorry, I can't divulge the details.

[tropo]

Thank you so much!!! You are so right!

A tourist is a resident of a foreign country visiting a country where he is not resident. In the country he visits he will stay in a hotel/guest house, a friend's house and after a usually very limited time leave the country again for a time considerably longer than the time he stayed in the country.

All your trips to neighbouring countries for a day or two and then come back as tourist is just f... bull sh... . No other organized and civilized country does accept this and certainly your home countries would never allow something similar. Stop crying, start complying.

I believe the Philippines allows this.

Try it out and you will know.

I have been reading a Philippines expat site. The consensus seems to be that you can stay for a year with a tourist visa and extensions. Then you must leave the country for one day and get a new tourist visa, starting the process all over again. Do you have experience to the contrary?

Sorry, a little off topic, but answering a query by a poster here.

No tourist visa is required for the Philippines.

When you enter you will get a 21-day stamp.

Before that expires you make a trip to an immigration office and extend the 21 days to 59 days.

Subsequently you can extend 5 more times by 59 days each time...giving very close to a year.

You leave the Philippines for a day, return and start the whole process again. There is no limit. They want tourists to stay as long as possible.

The whole process will cost approximately 9,000 baht for a year and 6 trips to an Immigation office. Many regional offices can process the extension in less than 1 hour.

If you marry, you get a balikbayan visa which requires renewal every year. If you leave on a balikbayan visa, when you return you get a one year stamp. There is no means testing for married couples. They prefer that you should stay and look after you children.

There are other visas that allow permanent residence quite easily, but because of the ease of staying as a tourist, many people don't bother and put up with the 2 monthly trip to the immigration offices.

[baboon]

yeah.. I'm one of those guys under 50 with enough money to live on.. just! All I do here is spend money, I don't earn money from any Thai company or individuals, I want to stay here because it's cheap, friendly and well located in Asia. Seems there are a few here that think I should be happy with three months as a tourist and just go home.

It's a great attitude isn't it? "I'm alright Jack"

Seems there are a few here that think I should be happy with three months as a tourist and just go home.

It's a great attitude isn't it? "I'm alright Jack"

Yes, you've been told now, not only by the Thai Immigration, but by other members on here.

90 days and you're out! That's long enough for you, you've travelled enough now, GO HOME!

Why waste time thinking about it? Just comply with the law.

Is that the law according to the Thai Police, Thai Immigration Bureau Head Office, The INDIVIDUAL Thai Embassies, The Individual Immigration regional Offices OR the individuals within the Individual Thai Embassies or Immigration Offices.

I am NOT being sarcastic but pointing out that whilst I agree with your comment it is TOO SIMPLISTIC.

For most of us the problem is NOT the Thai LAW, it is identifying what we need in each situation because it seems every Official is operating on : this is the Thai Law PLUS whatever we choose to decide"

NOT FAIR and NOT GOOD enough and very disorganised

Nobody knows where they stand or what is required of them. All we know is what is OFFICIALLY required of us and that is not much help on any given day.

Regards

Dave

Very well put, Gents! People like you are a most refreshing antidote to many who are watching and wondering what will become of us at this very difficult time. Let us hope for every civillised human being about to be thrown out as suddenly "undesirable" there will be a self- satisfied "legal, but then they had the nerve to turn ME down" on the same flight. Best of luck to all.

[Remo]

I wonder if a reply to the above question, still awaited, will provide some insight as to why the OP was denied his new tourist visa.

I know the worst part about asking about visas is were all entitled to different visas, I have a multiple entry TV with no visa exempt stamps on my passport ever. After spending over an hour with Chiang Mai immigration who were very helpful I left with the one message they constantly repeated, "Do not attempt after March to arrive into Bangkok without a visa"

Every one can read the changes whatever way they like but mo re and more there is a current theme running about mishaps

I am no visa runner and whether legally or by the letter of the law I am told by by the immigration office either get a new visa or leave, makes no sense but the worm has turned

When my TV exspires Chiang Mai immigraton response was with out even one 1 "visa exempt" on my passport not to attempt to re enter the country

Doesnt make sense but this is my experience in the last week, as other posts have said it its all subjective and I agree, my own 2 cents I think if you have spent over 6 months in the country a major blackmark in terms if opinion

With so many different stories Januarys posts/news will be very interesting

People get refused TVs in other countries and now I am told I cant even do "visa exempt" when never even doing one

The whole visa issue is a minefield but this is my experience in the last week, they stressed again and again get a new visa. In fairness they were very helpful but after being here when my visa expires after 8 months they were insistent about not doing a visa exempt (have exactly 0 of those on my passport)

All a bit odd and some confusing info but my experience in the last week

Edited November 18, 2006 by maestro

[madi]

I really do feel bad for any peron who is having trouble in staying in Thailand.

BUT

Don't most all of us come from nicer places than this?

Don't most of the jobs here pay very very low wages or salaries?

Is the educations system here great? NO

Is the beer here great? NO

Do we have lots of great sporting events to go to here? NO

Are their great museums? NO

Are most of you dating a woman with very poor English? YES

Are you always being asked to give? YES

Does anyone here ever give to you? NO

Are you always getting taxi drivers trying to rip you off? OH YEAH

The air so so clean? NO

Nice clean water? NO

We all could go on and on with this kind of thing correct?

So why are we here if Thailand does not want us here?

Most educated and wise Thais get the heck out of this country so why are we so stupid as to stay here?

The party is over for me.

Going home so my kids can get a real education and learn to THINK!

The rest of you sholul follow.

Vacation here but do NOT live here. Thailand does not want you and we should not put up with the junk here.

I agree with Thais who say go home to us.

I am following all the smart Thais out of this place.