Negotiating a Contract

[TravelTeach]

Hey all,

I've been offered a contract by a school with a few points I don't appreciate. One for example would imply I could be farmed out to teach in other locations. Another has the phrase "can unilaterally add duties to teacher's roster". Then there's a three month probationary period.

I like this school, I like this job, I think it would be a good place to work. The contract is overall reasonable. But I don't agree with everything. I have qualifications and experience. I'm not worried about getting a new job. I just like this one. I would like to make things work.

So, in Thailand, what is the reaction or consequence or approach to requesting a contract negotiation? Is there a standard approach? Does the boss even consider it? Is it expected? Please help!

Thanks!

[Rayk]

If your contract is in English only than it's worth about as much as a Thai degree in a western country.

In order for contracts to be officially legal they must be in both English and Thai.

You should tell them you're not interested in teaching in other locations and ask them to clarify what kind of extra duties they are referring to.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Rayk

[TravelTeach]

So then negotiation is a normal event in acquiring a job here?

[TerryLH]

"In order for contracts to be officially legal they must be in both English and Thai."

Not really. If there is a contract in Thai, that's the one that is used. It is often not the same as the English version you might get.

There have been numerous times here where someone says they don't have a contract, or at least one was never given to them. If they have a WP, a contract in Thai was part of the paperwork.

The 'other duties' is normal.

'Other locations' would have to be in the work permit to be legal for you to work there.

[BruceMangosteen]

No matter what the contract says, they will try and add and add additional duties and until you "just say no" it won't cease. No increase in wages along the way either. With that said, there's a long holiday next week which a good teacher can add on to both at the front end(this Friday) and the back end(next Thursday and Friday) putting the world at his doorstep with ten days to toy around with.

[simon43]

No matter what the contract says, they will try and add and add additional duties and until you "just say no" it won't cease

LoL, so true. At the government school where I teach, my employer (an agency) sent me a LINE message last Saturday morning asking where I was, because I was needed in school to run the English Club and to photocopy the midterm test papers.

I explained that my religion forbids me to work at the weekends..... they proceeded to send me multiple photos of the Thai teacher doing the photocopying, just try try to make me feel guilty

Strangely, whenever I raise a question or query with the agent, their LINE/email doesn't seem to work.

They asked me to prepare 2 students for the TOEIC exams, paying me 300 baht/hour. The students backed out of the deal, because the agent was charging them 1,000 baht/hour....

The school and students are great, but my experience of this agent and every other employment agent in Thailand that I've dealt with is that I'd much prefer to wipe doggy doo off my shoes than waste a second dealing with the agent.

I'd be a happy guy to do a direct deal with the school. But I imagine the 'death by a thousand cuts' clause in my contract if I cut out the agent would come into force

[muzmurray]

No matter what the contract says, they will try and add and add additional duties and until you "just say no" it won't cease. No increase in wages along the way either. With that said, there's a long holiday next week which a good teacher can add on to both at the front end(this Friday) and the back end(next Thursday and Friday) putting the world at his doorstep with ten days to toy around with.

I am not sure a good teacher would do that, surely a good teacher would go to work and teach the students in preference to having a few days to "toy around" with?

[petedk]

"In order for contracts to be officially legal they must be in both English and Thai."

Not really. If there is a contract in Thai, that's the one that is used. It is often not the same as the English version you might get.

There have been numerous times here where someone says they don't have a contract, or at least one was never given to them. If they have a WP, a contract in Thai was part of the paperwork.

The 'other duties' is normal.

'Other locations' would have to be in the work permit to be legal for you to work there.

Yes, my university has two locations and last time I went to renew my visa, the officer asked if I teach at the other campus. I was about to reply "sometimes" when the secretary, who came with me, blurted out "No No only in Bangkok."

Later I asked her why she said that and she told me that I would have to go to the Ministry of Labour in that province to add that campus to my work permit.

[Rayk]

"In order for contracts to be officially legal they must be in both English and Thai."

Not really. If there is a contract in Thai, that's the one that is used. It is often not the same as the English version you might get.

There have been numerous times here where someone says they don't have a contract, or at least one was never given to them. If they have a WP, a contract in Thai was part of the paperwork.

The 'other duties' is normal.

'Other locations' would have to be in the work permit to be legal for you to work there.

I'm quite sure the OP isn't a Thai, hence the reason why I stated a contract has to be in both English and Thai.

You failed to see my point. If a contract in Thailand for a foreigner is in English only and does not have a Thai contract to accompany it, it is not legally binding.

Are you going to be silly enough to sign a contract that is only written in Thai if you can't read Thai.

I certainly wouldn't.

[gandalf12]

Has the school signed the contract? Strictly speaking they should sign the contract then pass it to you for signature. As another poster says the contract should be in Thai / English and should include which law disputes (presumably Thai) will be applicable

[BruceMangosteen]

No matter what the contract says, they will try and add and add additional duties and until you "just say no" it won't cease. No increase in wages along the way either. With that said, there's a long holiday next week which a good teacher can add on to both at the front end(this Friday) and the back end(next Thursday and Friday) putting the world at his doorstep with ten days to toy around with.

I am not sure a good teacher would do that, surely a good teacher would go to work and teach the students in preference to having a few days to "toy around" with?

We are discussing teachers at the lower levels of society i.e. earning from 15,000. Baht to perhaps 40,000. Baht a month. The good teachers in this sector while as you imply care about their students and enjoy teaching them etc., also care about their time off and like to pursue other interests. Taking advantage of long holidays can hardly be considered repugnant or whatever. It doesn't reduce your standing with the school either. You have earned the status of "good" and you aren't taking advantage of it by enjoying your life outside of the classroom. Those who want to earn good money or make teacher a career aren't going to do so in Thailand schools paying these wages. Sorry to say it so bluntly but time off is why you are here, not time on. O O

[ajarngreg]

One for example would imply I could be farmed out to teach in other locations

Enough to tell them to stick their contract somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

[Johnniey]

"In order for contracts to be officially legal they must be in both English and Thai."

Not really. If there is a contract in Thai, that's the one that is used. It is often not the same as the English version you might get.

There have been numerous times here where someone says they don't have a contract, or at least one was never given to them. If they have a WP, a contract in Thai was part of the paperwork.

The 'other duties' is normal.

'Other locations' would have to be in the work permit to be legal for you to work there.

Yes, my university has two locations and last time I went to renew my visa, the officer asked if I teach at the other campus. I was about to reply "sometimes" when the secretary, who came with me, blurted out "No No only in Bangkok."

Later I asked her why she said that and she told me that I would have to go to the Ministry of Labour in that province to add that campus to my work permit.

They wouldn't care.

[Nawanakorn1]

If you don't like the contract, do not sign it! It is that simple.

[BruceMangosteen]

If you don't like the contract, do not sign it! It is that simple.

It's not that simple. The member wants the job. Very few of us read Thai. The Thai contract is most likely something passed around various schools. Said contract is for VISA and Work Permit purposes, not actual enforcement of duties etc.. No point in negotiating anything. Just sign the darn thing and if after you start, you don't like the school/duties, wait for your wages and leave. It's that simple. We aren't in the world of enforceable contracts and lawsuits etc.. Leave, be ready to leave the country, and come back on a tourist VISA. Two can play the game, it isn't all about contract law. O O and God Bless.

[Johnniey]

If you don't like the contract, do not sign it! It is that simple.

It's not that simple. The member wants the job. Very few of us read Thai. The Thai contract is most likely something passed around various schools. Said contract is for VISA and Work Permit purposes, not actual enforcement of duties etc.. No point in negotiating anything. Just sign the darn thing and if after you start, you don't like the school/duties, wait for your wages and leave. It's that simple. We aren't in the world of enforceable contracts and lawsuits etc.. Leave, be ready to leave the country, and come back on a tourist VISA. Two can play the game, it isn't all about contract law. O O and God Bless.

We are teachers and if we are too lazy or incompetent to learn to read Thai it says a lot about us. It took me 1 month to learn to read.

I've found that the Ministry of Labour are excellent at helping teachers with contract grievances. Also, we can sue employers.

[SlyAnimal]

Discuss it with your employer, just be polite, calm, don't raise your voice and so long as you've raised your concerns with them, they can then explain the purpose of the clause or they can remove it for you (Or advise you on whether removing it would be a deal breaker).

Main thing though, is to appear to be relatively relaxed + flexible, then the school will be happy and you'll improve your working relationship with your school. Also smile and laugh and generally appear to be relaxed and not too serious. Remember, you're working with/for the school, they are on the same side as you, you're not fighting against them, rather you're trying to find a solution that allows both you and the school to each achieve your respective goals.

Edited July 14, 2016 by SlyAnimal

[onlycw]

It's their way - or the highway!

They really don't appreciate any hassle, difficullties or changes. My contract was i. all in Thai and ii. I haven't received it yet, months after signing.

The person who hired me let slip that he did so because I hadn't requested any special treatment.

Do it - and risk losing the job.

Contracts are only as good as the people signing them. I've learned a tough lesson regarding a 90-days'-notice clause. Which bound only me but not them. Dishonest folks will drum up something and get you fired. Who cares about the small print of the contract when other stuff is going on?!

[Scott]

A contract in English is legally binding. I spent 4 hours in Court and the hearing had to do with the specific wording and intent of an English language contract. There is no Thai contract. There was someone to explain the contract in the Thai language.

I doubt there would be a hearing if the contract wasn't deemed legal.

[TravelTeach]

Thanks for the help folks. In the end I met the people running the place and it wasn't for me. Far too rural. But I believe they were honest and would have chatted/negotiated.