Millwall fans' complaint against Man City upheld - Justice!

[Bredbury Blue]

Millwall supporters who were denied entrance to the Etihad Stadium as neutral fans have had theircomplaint upheld by the Independent Football Ombudsman (IFO).

http://fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/millwall-fans-complaint-against-man-city-upheld

Very pleased to read this. City and any club, while right to be concerned about potential trouble, need to permit the right to 'non-partisan' fans to attend games.

[tubby johnson]

Why were Millwall's notorious hooligans trying to pose as "neutral fans" at a venue they had no business attending in the first place?

[carmine]

Why were Millwall's notorious hooligans trying to pose as "neutral fans" at a venue they had no business attending in the first place?

Which is something they have done before apparently.

[alfieconn]

Why were Millwall's notorious hooligans trying to pose as "neutral fans" at a venue they had no business attending in the first place?

Read the link ! one was a 65 yr old ex school teacher !

[mrbojangles]

I disagree BB. Any business should be allowed to refuse admission if they feel they may cause trouble. And let's face it, Millwall are renowned for it.

Although we don't know the full facts, it is without doubt there was a group of them. As they were originally going to the Oldham match, they most probably were wearing their colours and they may have already had a drink. Assumptions I know but not wild one's.

I don't know exactly what a football stadium is considered but as they sell alcohol I would assume it has to conform to the same as any licensed premises. I know there is a common law that it is unlawful to discriminate on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief etc but you can refuse entry to people already drunk and I think groups or gangs. The Millwall fans wearing colours could be construed as a gang?

[alfieconn]

I disagree BB. Any business should be allowed to refuse admission if they feel they may cause trouble. And let's face it, Millwall are renowned for it.

Although we don't know the full facts, it is without doubt there was a group of them. As they were originally going to the Oldham match, they most probably were wearing their colours and they may have already had a drink. Assumptions I know but not wild one's.

I don't know exactly what a football stadium is considered but as they sell alcohol I would assume it has to conform to the same as any licensed premises. I know there is a common law that it is unlawful to discriminate on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief etc but you can refuse entry to people already drunk and I think groups or gangs. The Millwall fans wearing colours could be construed as a gang?

So even though it's not mentioned anywhere within the report you have deduced that they were drunk and wearing their team colours in fact the only reason City gave for not allowing them admission was on police advise which turned out to be a lie.

The fact that the complaint was upheld and that City have offered the group complimentary tickets to a future game confirms that City were in the wrong but according to BJ this is incorrect

Edited July 13, 2016 by alfieconn

[mrbojangles]

I disagree BB. Any business should be allowed to refuse admission if they feel they may cause trouble. And let's face it, Millwall are renowned for it.

Although we don't know the full facts, it is without doubt there was a group of them. As they were originally going to the Oldham match, they most probably were wearing their colours and they may have already had a drink. Assumptions I know but not wild one's.

I don't know exactly what a football stadium is considered but as they sell alcohol I would assume it has to conform to the same as any licensed premises. I know there is a common law that it is unlawful to discriminate on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief etc but you can refuse entry to people already drunk and I think groups or gangs. The Millwall fans wearing colours could be construed as a gang?

So even though it's not mentioned anywhere within the report you have deduced that they were drunk and wearing their team colours in fact the only reason City gave for not allowing them admission was on police advise which turned out to be a lie.

The fact that the complaint was upheld and that City have offered the group complimentary tickets to a future game confirms that City were in the wrong but according to BJ this is incorrect

1. I was disagreeing with BB about allowing non-partisan fans into the club. To me, it should be at the clubs descretion as long as it isn't on the grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief

2. I didn't say they were drunk. I said they may have had a drink. I even highlighted the may bit in italic for clarity. Obviously not clear enough for some.

3. I said "most probably" wearing their clubs colours. They were going to a football match against Oldham and so I don't think that would be an extreme assumption.

4. Bugger it. Sometimes I don't know why I bother

[alfieconn]

I disagree BB. Any business should be allowed to refuse admission if they feel they may cause trouble. And let's face it, Millwall are renowned for it.

Although we don't know the full facts, it is without doubt there was a group of them. As they were originally going to the Oldham match, they most probably were wearing their colours and they may have already had a drink. Assumptions I know but not wild one's.

I don't know exactly what a football stadium is considered but as they sell alcohol I would assume it has to conform to the same as any licensed premises. I know there is a common law that it is unlawful to discriminate on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief etc but you can refuse entry to people already drunk and I think groups or gangs. The Millwall fans wearing colours could be construed as a gang?

So even though it's not mentioned anywhere within the report you have deduced that they were drunk and wearing their team colours in fact the only reason City gave for not allowing them admission was on police advise which turned out to be a lie.

The fact that the complaint was upheld and that City have offered the group complimentary tickets to a future game confirms that City were in the wrong but according to BJ this is incorrect

1. I was disagreeing with BB about allowing non-partisan fans into the club. To me, it should be at the clubs descretion as long as it isn't on the grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief

2. I didn't say they were drunk. I said they may have had a drink. I even highlighted the may bit in italic for clarity. Obviously not clear enough for some.

3. I said "most probably" wearing their clubs colours. They were going to a football match against Oldham and so I don't think that would be an extreme assumption.

4. Bugger it. Sometimes I don't know why I bother

2. I didn't say they were drunk. I said they may have had a drink. I even highlighted the may bit in italic for clarity. Obviously not clear enough for some.

but you can refuse entry to people already drunk

3. I said "most probably" wearing their clubs colours

The Millwall fans wearing colours could be construed as a gang?

Edited July 13, 2016 by alfieconn

[mrbojangles]

Alfie. Get back on topic and stop being pedantic.

[alfieconn]

Alfie. Get back on topic and stop being pedantic.

Off topic !!!! your one the one who come up with the conspiracy theory of them being drunk and wearing colours

Edited July 13, 2016 by alfieconn

[mrbojangles]

Alfie. Get back on topic and stop being pedantic.

Off topic !!!! your one the one who come up with the conspiracy theory of them being drunk and wearing colours

Alright Alfie. I apologise, you are right and I'm wrong. I don't know what come over me to make a preposterous assumption that fans going to a football match would wear their teams shirts and have a drink. Whoever it was in the ticket office must have just heard their accents and instantly knew they were Millwall fans. Quite a talent that

[smokie36]

It's only cos mrboj knows I used to live in Bermondsey innit.

[Bredbury Blue]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/millwall-fans-man-city-complaint-upheld-by-independent-football-ombudsman-34881936.html

four Millwall fans

City conceded it had been "wrong to have said (to Weavis) that the police had told the club that the postponement of the Oldham match could pose a safety risk at the Etihad."

City are adamant the decision - which was taken by their safety officer and adhered to the club's policy of intending to sell home tickets to home fans only - was not based simply on the fact the group involved were Millwall supporters, and that fans of Oldham or any other club would have been in the same situation.

The IFO has criticised City's handling of the complaint and recommended they "adopt more flexible ticketing arrangements which cater for casual visitors and fans of other clubs... rather than having a 'one size fits all' policy".City have offered the group of Millwall fans complimentary tickets to a future fixture at the Etihad Stadium.The IFO has also recommended the Premier League "consider including in their guidance suitable arrangements to cater for casual visitors", adding: "The League (in response) said that they will work with their clubs to understand how they currently assess and provide for these types of purchases, with a view to making positive developments to the guidance provided."

Food for thought.

[alfieconn]

Alfie. Get back on topic and stop being pedantic.

Off topic !!!! your one the one who come up with the conspiracy theory of them being drunk and wearing colours

Alright Alfie. I apologise, you are right and I'm wrong. I don't know what come over me to make a preposterous assumption that fans going to a football match would wear their teams shirts and have a drink. Whoever it was in the ticket office must have just heard their accents and instantly knew they were Millwall fans. Quite a talent that

So your clever enough to assume that they were wearing team shirt's but not clever enough to assume that as it was December that perhaps they were covered with jackets for the cold conditions and safety aspect.

Read the link .... when buying the tickets the cashier learned that they were Millwall fans, which imply's she didn't know in advance that they were Millwall fan's, so she is either blind or that their shirts were not openly on show / not wearing them, as for instantly knowing that they were Millwall fan's, perhaps she just asked them or are Ticket office staff dumb as well as blind ?

One more quick point : do you not think that if the Millwall lot were either drunk or rowdy or a gang looking likely to cause trouble that City would have used this as an excuse for not letting them in rather than taking the blame for the mistake they made ?

Edited July 14, 2016 by alfieconn

[Bredbury Blue]

^What cold conditions in Manchester? You big southern softie. Bit nesh are ya? We experience a temperate Oceanic climate, with mild summers and cool winters and regular but generally light precipitation throughout the year. ;-)

[Bredbury Blue]

First of all I'm surprised tickets were on sale prior to kickoff; as an infrequent visitor to the uk, I've always got tickets to the games (brothers have their uses) but I really didn't think you could just turn up before kickoff these days and get a ticket. Maybe thats a policy clubs need to look at, somthing like tickets are available until x hours before kickoff which would prevent unwanted fans pitching up.

City were playing Swansea. Wouldn't have thought either club has many cockeyknee sounding fans so I guess to the cashier's ears the southerner buying would have stood out.

It's then a judgement call for a club, do they believe there's good reason to think these 4 non-partisan fans will (I) cause trouble or (ii) find themselves in trouble with the home or away fans.

I do think City could have handled it better. There were only 4 fans (though isn't that the way hooligans get in to the home fans area, in multiple small groups).

It's a shame the 4 fans couldn't have got to watch the game but after they persisted with their claim City are going someway to right the wrong. The 4 fans will probably end up getting policies made favourable or less favourable for non-partisan fans as probably all clubs have differing policies.

Personally I like being able to role up at grounds as a non-partisan fan. Used to visit Bolton and other local teams when City were away, regularly watched Forest (during their golden period) and County when I was a student, and Cambridge and Norwich when I worked in Cambridge. The closest experience I have to the Millwall fans, was one cold winters day in the late 70s, we had 2 carloads of glaswegians visiting us, City were away (or the game was off as it was bitter cold), we needed a game for 3 carloads of Mancs and Glaswegians to go to, Goodison had the best game on locally so off we went in to the end next to the church (is that Gwladys), we had a great time, probably confused everyone around us - we went to watch football and have a laugh without causing trouble, but maybe as noted above we could have been in danger from the home fans.

It's definitely something that needs to be sorted out and clearly.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Bredbury Blue