New challenge to Corbyn as Owen Smith launches UK Labour leadership bid

[webfact]

New challenge to Corbyn as Owen Smith launches UK Labour leadership bid
By Alasdair Sandford

"This country cannot afford to have a Labour Party that isn't presenting a powerful opposition"

LONDON: -- The battle for Britain’s opposition Labour leadership has become more complicated after a second challenger to Jeremy Corbyn threw his hat into the ring.

Owen Smith, the leader’s former work and pensions policy chief, joined Angela Eagle in saying that they believe the current leader – much criticised amid the Brexit referendum fallout – is unelectable.

“He (Corbyn) has done a good job in some respects but he is not the man who can lead us into the next election and win for Labour and working people in this country cannot afford to have a Labour Party that isn’t presenting a powerful opposition and a credible alternative government. That’s what I am determine to provide, this leadership that we need,” Owen Smith said on Wednesday.

The move could actually boost Jeremy Corbyn’s prospects if the opposition to him is split.

Most Labour MPs have deserted the left-wing leader but he remains confident of grassroots membership support.

Corbyn won nearly 60 percent of first round votes when elected last year.

At stake is the future direction of Britain’s main opposition party.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-07-14

[oxo1947]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Edited July 14, 2016 by oxo1947

[Laughing Gravy]

"This country cannot afford to have a Labour Party that isn't presenting a powerful opposition"

This made me laugh. The labour party are so out of touch. I suggest they listen to those who voted for brexit and start a new workers or peoples party that actually cared for the people and workers. The way the party is going it will be decades before they ever get in power again are in danger of coming like the Lib dems and SDP of the 1980s. Insignificant and a party of the past.

[abrahamzvi]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

[brexiteer]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

But it wasn't.

It was based, like British political votes, on first past the post.

Exit won clearly, "Brexit means Brext" so suck it up and move on.

Corbyn (if he is around much longer) needs a new script writer; the way a bumbled around his final question in PMQ's was embarrassing.

[oxo1947]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

abrahamzvi......... I think I could bet my house on the way you voted (or would have) .

How about a 80% majority with a 90% turn out----then if you lose again, may something as important as this should be 101% before being adopted.

.

The UK voting system has always been first past the post wins. Why does everyone want to change it when they lose?? abrahamzvi--could you honestly say that you would want a re-vote if you had won. Voting in a government is important---the conservatives got in the time before last as a minority government ---they brought out the Lid-Dems who paid the price at the next election. The majority of voters didn't vote just for them----but it was accepted.

Let the peoples vote stand----that is what democracy is about.

[Basil B]

Interesting to hear Angela Eagle this morning on TV, about the brick through the window, death threats, and now insurgents infiltrating her constituency party in order to call and pack a meeting to deselect her as MP.

The labour party of old, say something the bully boys do not like and you get s beating.

[Basil B]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

abrahamzvi......... I think I could bet my house on the way you voted (or would have) .

How about a 80% majority with a 90% turn out----then if you lose again, may something as important as this should be 101% before being adopted.

.

The UK voting system has always been first past the post wins. Why does everyone want to change it when they lose?? abrahamzvi--could you honestly say that you would want a re-vote if you had won. Voting in a government is important---the conservatives got in the time before last as a minority government ---they brought out the Lid-Dems who paid the price at the next election. The majority of voters didn't vote just for them----but it was accepted.

Let the peoples vote stand----that is what democracy is about.

Funny how the Labour party was so much against PR yet the their elections for leader will be PR...

[MissAndry]

Voting in a government is important---the conservatives got in the time before last as a minority government ---they brought out the Lid-Dems who paid the price at the next election. The majority of voters didn't vote just for them----but it was accepted.

Very few elections in the UK are won with a vote of more than 40%

Cameron won with 36%

Tony Blair managed in 1997 with 43%

Edited July 14, 2016 by MissAndry

[bkkcanuck8]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

cough, cough... the last referendum was finished and the results in within the parameters set. It is now the mandate. If you change the parameters and fail to have a 60% majority with 75% poll participation.... as the criteria it would mean the results of the last referendum stand as the last mandate.

[uksomchai]

I remember the 70's. The days of the flying pickets and the violence they wrought upon anyone that dared to oppose them. I am now seeing the same tactics that were used back then used now. Corbyn and his Momentum thugs have taken over the membership of the Labour party by getting their activists to join. The parting gift from Miliband now lets them control the party like never before. They may well be able to get Corbyn elected as leader but it is the Labour VOTERS that get Labour elected into Government. The vast majority of those Labour Voters have never been nor ever will be members but these are the people that get Labour into Government and not the members. Something the likes of Momentum and the Corbyn Jihadis do not seem to understand

If Corbyn is allowed to stand as leader and there is now a legal challenge to the NEC verdict that said he didn't need to get 20% backing then the party will collapse and that will be the end of Labour as a government in waiting forever. It will be just a protest party led by a career protest politician corbyn

Win or lose Corbyn is finished as is the Labour party. After the demolition of the Scottish Labour party labour now need to gain over 100 sets to ever get into Government which is never going to happen. They will cease to be the official opposition very soon.

BYE BYE LABOUR !

[Gweiloman]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

So, assuming that there is a new referendum and 2 million of Brexit over Remain voters now switches their votes to Remain. This would mean that the results would be 52:48 in favour of Remain.

Does that mean that there would have to be yet another referendum and so on until there is a 60% majority? You will cripple the country!

[JetsetBkk]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision, he said.

But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, It wasnt the right decision.--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

So, assuming that there is a new referendum and 2 million of Brexit over Remain voters now switches their votes to Remain. This would mean that the results would be 52:48 in favour of Remain.

Does that mean that there would have to be yet another referendum and so on until there is a 60% majority? You will cripple the country!

Yep. Best out of 3.

And then 5.

And then...

[Thaiwine]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

So, assuming that there is a new referendum and 2 million of Brexit over Remain voters now switches their votes to Remain. This would mean that the results would be 52:48 in favour of Remain.

Does that mean that there would have to be yet another referendum and so on until there is a 60% majority? You will cripple the country!

Actually I do think the remainers have a point that the majority was slim, but the rules were set for a majority win, so the result should stand.

So perhaps parliament should make all future referndums a min 60% majority with a min 75% turnout to alter any status quo.

[bkkcanuck8]

Owen Smith to offer referendum on Brexit deal if elected Labour leader

The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum. “I think there are many people out there who voted in good faith for Brexit and who felt they were doing the right thing for their families and their communities and I respect them for taking that decision,” he said.

“But I think a lot of people I know are now saying to themselves, ‘It wasn’t the right decision.’--http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader

Oh that should go down real well----"The MP said Labour should be sensible and mature about the outcome of the EU referendum."

The definition of sensible & mature = we keep sending you back for a re-vote time & time again, until we get an answer that suits us...................

Not quite! A referendum of such importance should have been based on at least a 60% majority with a 75% poll participation. As such this referendum should be repeated on such a new basis.

So, assuming that there is a new referendum and 2 million of Brexit over Remain voters now switches their votes to Remain. This would mean that the results would be 52:48 in favour of Remain.

Does that mean that there would have to be yet another referendum and so on until there is a 60% majority? You will cripple the country!

Actually I do think the remainers have a point that the majority was slim, but the rules were set for a majority win, so the result should stand.

So perhaps parliament should make all future referndums a min 60% majority with a min 75% turnout to alter any status quo.

The only time I support the need for super-majorities is when you are changing the written constitution -- since you are creating law that will potentially overrule the democratic will of the people at the time. The rest of the time 50% + 1 should be sufficient. Referendums are one of the most direct and democratic mechanisms for getting a mandate, more so than parliament which would still be able to change the laws with a simple majority. Proposals like this are more because you think your position is in the minority and you want to thwart the democratic will of what the referendum result will bring. In effect, the people are stupid and they must not make decisions for themselves.

[Thaiwine]

Actually I do think the remainers have a point that the majority was slim, but the rules were set for a majority win, so the result should stand.

So perhaps parliament should make all future referndums a min 60% majority with a min 75% turnout to alter any status quo.

The only time I support the need for super-majorities is when you are changing the written constitution -- since you are creating law that will potentially overrule the democratic will of the people at the time. The rest of the time 50% + 1 should be sufficient. Referendums are one of the most direct and democratic mechanisms for getting a mandate, more so than parliament which would still be able to change the laws with a simple majority. Proposals like this are more because you think your position is in the minority and you want to thwart the democratic will of what the referendum result will bring. In effect, the people are stupid and they must not make decisions for themselves.

No, what I am talking about is much the same as you, as we would have referendums for major decisions, so a clear majority for change.

I am in favour of governments taking surveys around major cities on lesser issues to get the feeling of the people, to guide their polices instead of telling us "we know whats best for you"

[bkkcanuck8]

Actually I do think the remainers have a point that the majority was slim, but the rules were set for a majority win, so the result should stand.

So perhaps parliament should make all future referndums a min 60% majority with a min 75% turnout to alter any status quo.

The only time I support the need for super-majorities is when you are changing the written constitution -- since you are creating law that will potentially overrule the democratic will of the people at the time. The rest of the time 50% + 1 should be sufficient. Referendums are one of the most direct and democratic mechanisms for getting a mandate, more so than parliament which would still be able to change the laws with a simple majority. Proposals like this are more because you think your position is in the minority and you want to thwart the democratic will of what the referendum result will bring. In effect, the people are stupid and they must not make decisions for themselves.

No, what I am talking about is much the same as you, as we would have referendums for major decisions, so a clear majority for change.

I am in favour of governments taking surveys around major cities on lesser issues to get the feeling of the people, to guide their polices instead of telling us "we know whats best for you"

No your not actually.

I support super-majorities for "super-laws" (constitutional law). The type of law in countries such as in Canada where we have a written constitution with a written charter of rights and freedoms.... where the court can rule based on those and parliament cannot overrule or ignore with any majority.

Most decisions are major decisions to someone in the population.

If you believe in democracy - big or small decisions all that is needed is 50% + 1. The bigger decision, the more engaged the public is.

Definitely votes on self-determination; self-government should always be 50% + 1.

Edited July 14, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[brewsterbudgen]

Presumably a third candidate makes Corbyn's re-election more likely, as the anti-Corbyn vote will be split? Go Jezzer!

[bkkcanuck8]

Presumably a third candidate makes Corbyn's re-election more likely, as the anti-Corbyn vote will be split? Go Jezzer!

How does the voting go, I thought one was forced out that had the least then the voting continued on to a second round - or I should say I assumed that since that is what my party use to do in Canada. If that is the case it would just mean split on the first round then mostly move to the 2nd one.

[dick dasterdly]

Presumably a third candidate makes Corbyn's re-election more likely, as the anti-Corbyn vote will be split? Go Jezzer!

I thought the same thing.

As far as I can gather, Corbyn has the vote of the membership - so it doesn't really matter if MPs are trying to get rid of him?

[bkkcanuck8]

Presumably a third candidate makes Corbyn's re-election more likely, as the anti-Corbyn vote will be split? Go Jezzer!

I thought the same thing.

As far as I can gather, Corbyn has the vote of the membership - so it doesn't really matter if MPs are trying to get rid of him?

Well it does if they feel strongly enough, they can cross the floor and sit as independents while forming a new party.... leaving a much smaller Labour Party in parliament.

Or they could defect to the Liberal Democrats...

Edited July 15, 2016 by bkkcanuck8