Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[thaibeachlovers]

Let not forget that prostitution is not widely available here because of foreigners. Thais are using that all the time. Any Karaoke bar in most remote area of the country the Thai customer can take out the waitress or waiter. It is part of their culture. Husband play on the side is Thai typical. Foreigner using bars or prostitution services are a very small percentage compare to Thai people.

Let's not forget that we're discussing the tourist minister here, so foreigners are most likely her main concern.

You are completely incorrect. What you said could not possibly be further from the truth. She has no concern for foreigners. Her only concerns are for politics, appearances, keeping the tourist trade moving forward (a very convoluted affair, in her own mind, without the required experience in the tourism industry) promoting Thailand overseas, etc. No concern for tourists that are already here. If she had any concern there are dozens of ways she could express that concern, with policies that benefitted tourists. Such as:

1. Public safety improvements.

2. Traffic safety improvements.

3. Setting up tourist information kiosks, that were not manned by someone selling a product, but rather an employee of the government, like you see in so many other countries that care, ready, willing, and able to provide useful information for tourists.

4. Abolishing the two tier pricing system at the National Parks, which many of us will not visit, due to the extortioner practices on admission fees.

5. Working on abolishing the scams that affect the industry.

I could go on and on and on. There is so much that could be done, if she cared one iota.

That seems to sum it up pretty well.

Winnie

Yeah, that 2 pricing system sucks,, make a foreigner pay 200B and a Thai 50B.. your forget the foreigner makes three times that amount in an hour for an average wage.. where a Thai makes 50B for 2 hours work,, and if your retired you probably collect a good pension, what to Thais get ??

stop moaning,, and it goes on everywhere, in Auckland NZ, you can get in free to some things if you live in the city where as everyone else pays....

get over it !!

Remember the Thai minimum wage is 300 THB a day. How many Farangs would be able to live on this?

Thais pay more than Brits for a China visa here. But Americans pay most of all (reciprocal fee charges at work)

Also Thais visiting China need to show proof of funds to get visa. Farangs do not. Makes me smile...

Quite right about Auckland. I went to the museum, where Aucklanders get in for free, NZers for a donation and tourists have to pay a gobsmacking $25 ( roughly 600 baht ).

[thaibeachlovers]

Watch the GDP plunge 30-60%.

Just to put it in prospective almost 9 million Chinese will visit Thailand this year contributing over 300 billion baht .

That's just Chinese .

Westerners who only UK figures in the top 5 financial contributes ( 3rd)

Contributes less than a 4th that amount. ( 70 billion just UK )

All westerners combined about 400 billion.

Of this 75% are couples , back packers, families not in any way involved in the sex industry regards purchasing a Thai product service from a sex worker.

This means about 100 - 125 billion baht is estimated to flow from sex tourism.

Less than half of "" just the Chinese market""

Malaysian , Japanese , South Korea , and assorted also transcend the sex tourist market in financial contribution.

The delusion that Thais need to maintain the industry is false.

The only reason they may let it exist in some form is to allow the estimated 300 million USD that flows north to families of sex workers.

However , the 30-60% plunge is very way out .

Considering the whole industry is only worth 10% total GDP .

The replacement factor of revenue from increasing Chinese numbers.

Up 900% in ten years .

And growing fast.

Restrictions on Chinese lower middle classes leaving China on Tourist visas means an invasion of sorts will come.

Thailand doesn't need the sex tourists.

They may spend 5 to one more than Chinese tourists.

But the sheer numbers of Chinese means they contribute far far more.

Something many sex tourists mistakenly fail to see.

Their days are not numbered ( sex tourists) but a few may end up black listed in future a others detained and even imprisoned as the military step up raids.

Take another look at this woman claiming her intensions.....her parents in a portrait behind her.

She looks like a person who is not to be doubted for an instant.

It's also a military government with absolute authority who doesn't care what the peasants supplying the bulk of sex workers think.

It also taps into Nationalistic sentiment , whilst ridding the nation of unwanted westerners haunting their every move.

It's actually pay back to what we say about them in some respects.

The others living here retired will in time meet new laws that make this harder...( eg 800',000 could be lifted and examined more closely)

This agenda is just the beginning of removing people not desired .

And in general that's not just sex tourists

Malaysian , Japanese

Never heard of Hat Yai or Thaniya Plaza?

Their days are not numbered ( sex tourists) but a few may end up black listed in future

It's also a military government with absolute authority

LOL. The sex industry flourished under the military government of the 70s.

whilst ridding the nation of unwanted westerners haunting their every move.

What strange dreams you have.

This agenda is just the beginning of removing people not desired .

Thanks for the hilarious reply. I needed a laugh.

[thaibeachlovers]

You wouldn't find the equivalent constituency among Western women and it would be likely therefore to find the Western women would find Thai men more attractive. As amusing as that would be to watch, I don't think it's likely to happen, but the reality is (or seems to me to be) that Western women are likely to be repulsed from prostitution addicts.

Ah. That's because the western women go to Ghana or Caribbean islands. They want to get schlonged, to paraphrase the next champion of the free world. You need the right tools for that and they don't grow here.

But the addiction to Thai prostitutes by western men is interesting. Why is that? What is it, or was it, that drew the hordes to the ends of the world? I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized, the generic trend in globalization. But let's look into the glory days. What made Thailand the brothel of the world? Why do men step in an aeroplane, suffer 10+ hours on rock hard economy seats, to get to an underdeveloped country just to get laid?

That's easy. Back in the real world, one has to bribe women with gifts, restaurants etc etc etc on the chance that one MIGHT get lucky, and even then it's probably pretty boring. Other than that it's down to the pub and spend loads buying women drinks on the chance of having a quick shag behind a dumpster or in a car, or, if exceptional, a one night stand.

In LOS, one gets a guaranteed shag for the same amount ( or less ), and can even keep them for as long as desired; go to the beach, or whatever. Then, if the temp GF gets a bit stroppy, trade them in for another, and all in the comfort of a nice hotel room, at a fraction of the price of an hotel back home.

One must remember that sex is the number one genetic driver of all animals after eating.

I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized

If you mean because it's getting too expensive, you are right. Hotels in Pattaya are pricing themselves out of the monger market.

[SoiBiker]

You wouldn't find the equivalent constituency among Western women and it would be likely therefore to find the Western women would find Thai men more attractive. As amusing as that would be to watch, I don't think it's likely to happen, but the reality is (or seems to me to be) that Western women are likely to be repulsed from prostitution addicts.

Ah. That's because the western women go to Ghana or Caribbean islands. They want to get schlonged, to paraphrase the next champion of the free world. You need the right tools for that and they don't grow here.

But the addiction to Thai prostitutes by western men is interesting. Why is that? What is it, or was it, that drew the hordes to the ends of the world? I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized, the generic trend in globalization. But let's look into the glory days. What made Thailand the brothel of the world? Why do men step in an aeroplane, suffer 10+ hours on rock hard economy seats, to get to an underdeveloped country just to get laid?

That's easy. Back in the real world, one has to bribe women with gifts, restaurants etc etc etc on the chance that one MIGHT get lucky, and even then it's probably pretty boring. Other than that it's down to the pub and spend loads buying women drinks on the chance of having a quick shag behind a dumpster or in a car, or, if exceptional, a one night stand.

In LOS, one gets a guaranteed shag for the same amount ( or less ), and can even keep them for as long as desired; go to the beach, or whatever. Then, if the temp GF gets a bit stroppy, trade them in for another, and all in the comfort of a nice hotel room, at a fraction of the price of an hotel back home.

One must remember that sex is the number one genetic driver of all animals after eating.

I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized

If you mean because it's getting too expensive, you are right. Hotels in Pattaya are pricing themselves out of the monger market.

People who actually like women tend to enjoy the dating part of the process.

If you don't like having to pay for everything on dates, try going on dates after 1990. Women have their own money now.

[slippery snake]

Why do most people bitch about the, No money spending Chinese ?? They book tours, they book hotels maybe booked from over seas, but the money must come here.. I see them with trollies full of food at the supermarkets and the same with woman buying beauty products at a pharmacy, and most I see at the malls have a bag or two full of things they have bought... It is just the bars that miss out, that is why they are so slow these days as most don't drink much or even at all, and of course the bar girls get sweet bugger all customers from Chinese guys, as most have a very attractive woman with them, and they are so cute and feminine... and much better looking than most bar girls ..... I have had some Chinese and Korean girlfriends and they sure know how to please a guy in bed, will do anything and everything a bar girl will do, and most times a lot more !!!!

[SoiBiker]

Why do most people bitch about the, No money spending Chinese ?? They book tours, they book hotels maybe booked from over seas, but the money must come here.. I see them with trollies full of food at the supermarkets and the same with woman buying beauty products at a pharmacy, and most I see at the malls have a bag or two full of things they have bought... It is just the bars that miss out, that is why they are so slow these days as most don't drink much or even at all, and of course the bar girls get sweet bugger all customers from Chinese guys, as most have a very attractive woman with them, and they are so cute and feminine... and much better looking than most bar girls ..... I have had some Chinese and Korean girlfriends and they sure know how to please a guy in bed, will do anything and everything a bar girl will do, and most times a lot more !!!!

I think mostly because they think anyone Asian is beneath the mighty European. And they're deluded enough to think that farangs are considered better tourists somehow.

[slippery snake]

You wouldn't find the equivalent constituency among Western women and it would be likely therefore to find the Western women would find Thai men more attractive. As amusing as that would be to watch, I don't think it's likely to happen, but the reality is (or seems to me to be) that Western women are likely to be repulsed from prostitution addicts.

Ah. That's because the western women go to Ghana or Caribbean islands. They want to get schlonged, to paraphrase the next champion of the free world. You need the right tools for that and they don't grow here.

But the addiction to Thai prostitutes by western men is interesting. Why is that? What is it, or was it, that drew the hordes to the ends of the world? I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized, the generic trend in globalization. But let's look into the glory days. What made Thailand the brothel of the world? Why do men step in an aeroplane, suffer 10+ hours on rock hard economy seats, to get to an underdeveloped country just to get laid?

That's easy. Back in the real world, one has to bribe women with gifts, restaurants etc etc etc on the chance that one MIGHT get lucky, and even then it's probably pretty boring. Other than that it's down to the pub and spend loads buying women drinks on the chance of having a quick shag behind a dumpster or in a car, or, if exceptional, a one night stand.

In LOS, one gets a guaranteed shag for the same amount ( or less ), and can even keep them for as long as desired; go to the beach, or whatever. Then, if the temp GF gets a bit stroppy, trade them in for another, and all in the comfort of a nice hotel room, at a fraction of the price of an hotel back home.

One must remember that sex is the number one genetic driver of all animals after eating.

I know why it's on decline, because the Thai scene is becoming more westernized

If you mean because it's getting too expensive, you are right. Hotels in Pattaya are pricing themselves out of the monger market.

People who actually like women tend to enjoy the dating part of the process.

If you don't like having to pay for everything on dates, try going on dates after 1990. Women have their own money now.

Have their own money now ? maybe they do but you very seldom see them open their purse to pay for a coffee, dinner or a drink..

My ex wifes favorite saying was, ( and I must of heard it 100 times at least ) "what you make is ours, what I make is mine".... that says it all.

I am happy to say she is an EX now,, 555555

And if I ever pick up a bar girl I will take her to a bar with a band and listen to the music, dance for a couple of hours before retiring to my condo, for the next stage of the evening !!

[elgordo38]

Yes the TAT lady talks a good game. But as one poster mentioned there should be tourist information kiosk's all over to help tourists. The tourist infrastructure needs work. The police force needs an overhaul to the point where the upper level gives up their handmaidens and said handmaidens become visible on the street patrolling and doing their duty. These high muckety muck officers do not need a harem of junior officers to preen and fluff them. I bump into the BIB shopping, banking in jewelry stores but hardly ever on the beat or on motorbike patrolling. Everything the TAT lady says sounds good but real improvement costs money the stumbling block to get anything done here. Incoming cash is great outgoing well not so much so. Tourism is a fly by the seat of your pants thing here.

[spidermike007]

Watch the GDP plunge 30-60%.

Just to put it in prospective almost 9 million Chinese will visit Thailand this year contributing over 300 billion baht .

That's just Chinese .

Westerners who only UK figures in the top 5 financial contributes ( 3rd)

Contributes less than a 4th that amount. ( 70 billion just UK )

All westerners combined about 400 billion.

Of this 75% are couples , back packers, families not in any way involved in the sex industry regards purchasing a Thai product service from a sex worker.

This means about 100 - 125 billion baht is estimated to flow from sex tourism.

Less than half of "" just the Chinese market""

Malaysian , Japanese , South Korea , and assorted also transcend the sex tourist market in financial contribution.

The delusion that Thais need to maintain the industry is false.

The only reason they may let it exist in some form is to allow the estimated 300 million USD that flows north to families of sex workers.

However , the 30-60% plunge is very way out .

Considering the whole industry is only worth 10% total GDP .

The replacement factor of revenue from increasing Chinese numbers.

Up 900% in ten years .

And growing fast.

Restrictions on Chinese lower middle classes leaving China on Tourist visas means an invasion of sorts will come.

Thailand doesn't need the sex tourists.

They may spend 5 to one more than Chinese tourists.

But the sheer numbers of Chinese means they contribute far far more.

Something many sex tourists mistakenly fail to see.

Their days are not numbered ( sex tourists) but a few may end up black listed in future a others detained and even imprisoned as the military step up raids.

Take another look at this woman claiming her intensions.....her parents in a portrait behind her.

She looks like a person who is not to be doubted for an instant.

It's also a military government with absolute authority who doesn't care what the peasants supplying the bulk of sex workers think.

It also taps into Nationalistic sentiment , whilst ridding the nation of unwanted westerners haunting their every move.

It's actually pay back to what we say about them in some respects.

The others living here retired will in time meet new laws that make this harder...( eg 800',000 could be lifted and examined more closely)

This agenda is just the beginning of removing people not desired .

And in general that's not just sex tourists

Those numbers just do not sound correct. Of all of the hotel owners, restauranteurs, owners of gift shops, massage shops, and travel agents I have spoken with, all say the same thing. The Chinese tourists spend less money than any other group, that they have ever dealt with. So, why this high number? Perhaps that is the total generated, but does not take into account that alot of that money either stayed in China, or was repatriated back to China?

There is no doubt in the minds of these travel industry folks, that Western tourists are of far higher quality, when it comes to spending money. No doubt. It is a mistake of historic proportions, for the tourism ministry to target the Chinese market. A massive mistake.

[DrTuner]

People who actually like women tend to enjoy the dating part of the process.

Hell no. Dating is true torture, I'll take a week at Gitmo being waterboarded any time.

Spending time with women is torture?

Have you ever considered giving men a try instead?

No, dating is. I once had a few months free and decided to do an experiment. Went on exactly 100 dates in three months, often 4-5 per day. Can't think of anything more boring, the women trying to measure your assets and the banal BS every single time. All useless theater while they try to decide if they'll open up the pins or not. Got laid a fair bit though, so not a total waste.

I'll leave the feminists and men to you, thanks.

[Rc2702]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

[slippery snake]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

So now she wants to bring in western woman for what ? to take over the sex business when she sends all the Thai girls back to Issan to starve,

Obviously there is a need for this business when there are 120,000 woman working in the business,, If no one used them they would be naturally out of work !!!! And her comment "tourist's don't come here for such a thing" shows how out of touch she is. If they didn't come here for sex, then why is she doing anything at all ????

Not all do of course, the majority don't, but there are many that do, and they bring a lot of revenue into the country, especially up north, where most of the money spent on girls, ends up going. She will put Issan into more poverty than it already is !!!

[slippery snake]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

I can't be bothered meeting girls on internet, I have tried a few times and usually they look nothing like the photoshop photos they send you,

plus it doesn't mean you will even get along well or even like them when you meet. It's just a waste of time for me, I'd much rather see a girl some where I like the look of and go over for a chat, if she not right, you just walk away, same as she can if your not right for her.. But much better to meet a person, in person, than on a bloody computer.. At least for me it is !!

[Rc2702]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

So now she wants to bring in western woman for what ? to take over the sex business when she sends all the Thai girls back to Issan to starve,

Obviously there is a need for this business when there are 120,000 woman working in the business,, If no one used them they would be naturally out of work !!!! And her comment "tourist's don't come here for such a thing" shows how out of touch she is. If they didn't come here for sex, then why is she doing anything at all ????

Not all do of course, the majority don't, but there are many that do, and they bring a lot of revenue into the country, especially up north, where most of the money spent on girls, ends up going. She will put Issan into more poverty than it already is !!!

No one is saying it will not occur but the format may change and the current focus seems to be trafficked ladies from neighbouring countries or further afield so isan ladies may not be affected too much they are thai nationals after all and hopefully they have the savvy skills required to ply their trade away from pryING eyes which would bring the trade in line with ROTW.

RE: women into thailamd from west/east. Spiritualism, yoga, Buddhism, sun bathing, diving, nature, adventure, food,history all these can pull crowds too and by limiting visibility of the sex trade your painting a better better picture and attracting a broader market. The only loses are the exploitation experts who homed in on the market and began trafficking in girls from overseas once the thai girls got there act together and went out on their own.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Rc2702

[micmichd]

This lady should define 'sex trade', and define it globally. Taking into account the poor Issan women who are forced to go West to marry and raise their children. This is way too expensive, and of course it's for sex. Marriage always is.

[micmichd]

It's strange that sex work should be an issue for the tourism minister all the time. Labour should be an issue for the labour department, too. It's theirs to give out labour licenses and working-permits, isn't it? And isn't it theirs to protect the labour market (including the sex market) from unfair practices and unwanted competition from the West?

Just wondering...

[micmichd]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

I can't be bothered meeting girls on internet, I have tried a few times and usually they look nothing like the photoshop photos they send you,

plus it doesn't mean you will even get along well or even like them when you meet. It's just a waste of time for me, I'd much rather see a girl some where I like the look of and go over for a chat, if she not right, you just walk away, same as she can if your not right for her.. But much better to meet a person, in person, than on a bloody computer.. At least for me it is !!

In my life it's far worse. I get unsolicited cybersex offers from Western girls and desperate housewives all the time, they come via Skype. Silly to see how they prostitute themselves in front of a camera. Well, cybersex might be quite healthy, you don't get STD nor do you father a child. And it's cheap for cheap charlies. Of course, nothing compared to the silk skin of a real woman :-*

[spidermike007]

To elaborate, I know plenty of people here in relationships with Thai women who don't talk this kind of rubbish. I'm not trying to tar them with the same brush.

you implied only poor little asian women would accept the wests loser men, the same racist attitude spouted by western women, who simply refuse to accept that some men for a variety of reasons might prefer asian females

Even when I still lived in NZ, all my mates (except one) had Asian woman as girlfriends or wives, either Chinese, Korean or Thai.

After my lying deceitful slut of a wife ran off, and I recovered from that, I went out with an Asian woman from Hong Kong, I have never again been out with another western woman.

Also one of my sons is married to a Chinese woman and they have two very smart kids.. You see many young guys in NZ now , with Asian woman.

And quite frankly I find them much more feminine, caring, and sexy.. I worked with a white woman that went to the same dance on Sat nights, I would have a dance with her and after not seeing her for a few weeks , I asked her why are you not going now? she said "I'm sick of all you guys just want dance with the Asian woman, and my friend and I never get asked for a dance, we just sit there all night"

Western woman need to wake their ideas up or they won't be able to find a husband soon, that's if they ever want one,, as 3 of my sons female friends just wanted to get pregnant, then the government would give them a free home, and pay for them and their kids, and we don't have to work...

I know this is not all western woman, as all are different, but it seems to be a hell of a lot of them are....

You might tell that I love Asian woman and am here to enjoy as many as I can, until the right one to marry comes along ( if ever) ...

I could not agree with alot of what you said more wholeheartedly, more earnest, and more forcefully. Asian women are very comfortable being women, and wearing their femininity. It is infinitely more appealing. I love being with a real woman.

[Plutojames88]

Watch the GDP plunge 30-60%.

Just to put it in prospective almost 9 million Chinese will visit Thailand this year contributing over 300 billion baht .

That's just Chinese .

Westerners who only UK figures in the top 5 financial contributes ( 3rd)

Contributes less than a 4th that amount. ( 70 billion just UK )

All westerners combined about 400 billion.

Of this 75% are couples , back packers, families not in any way involved in the sex industry regards purchasing a Thai product service from a sex worker.

This means about 100 - 125 billion baht is estimated to flow from sex tourism.

Less than half of "" just the Chinese market""

Malaysian , Japanese , South Korea , and assorted also transcend the sex tourist market in financial contribution.

The delusion that Thais need to maintain the industry is false.

The only reason they may let it exist in some form is to allow the estimated 300 million USD that flows north to families of sex workers.

However , the 30-60% plunge is very way out .

Considering the whole industry is only worth 10% total GDP .

The replacement factor of revenue from increasing Chinese numbers.

Up 900% in ten years .

And growing fast.

Restrictions on Chinese lower middle classes leaving China on Tourist visas means an invasion of sorts will come.

Thailand doesn't need the sex tourists.

They may spend 5 to one more than Chinese tourists.

But the sheer numbers of Chinese means they contribute far far more.

Something many sex tourists mistakenly fail to see.

Their days are not numbered ( sex tourists) but a few may end up black listed in future a others detained and even imprisoned as the military step up raids.

Take another look at this woman claiming her intensions.....her parents in a portrait behind her.

She looks like a person who is not to be doubted for an instant.

It's also a military government with absolute authority who doesn't care what the peasants supplying the bulk of sex workers think.

It also taps into Nationalistic sentiment , whilst ridding the nation of unwanted westerners haunting their every move.

It's actually pay back to what we say about them in some respects.

The others living here retired will in time meet new laws that make this harder...( eg 800',000 could be lifted and examined more closely)

This agenda is just the beginning of removing people not desired .

And in general that's not just sex tourists

Those numbers just do not sound correct. Of all of the hotel owners, restauranteurs, owners of gift shops, massage shops, and travel agents I have spoken with, all say the same thing. The Chinese tourists spend less money than any other group, that they have ever dealt with. So, why this high number? Perhaps that is the total generated, but does not take into account that alot of that money either stayed in China, or was repatriated back to China?

There is no doubt in the minds of these travel industry folks, that Western tourists are of far higher quality, when it comes to spending money. No doubt. It is a mistake of historic proportions, for the tourism ministry to target the Chinese market. A massive mistake.

This is unfortunately the only link to verify the more recent numbers .

Of 300 billion .

It's only 190 billion but last year and only for a six month period.

I think you will accept numbers are greater as even the increase last year was 138% up on prior .

Meaning 300 billion for whole year is at least accurate if not more .

Given 190 billion was achieved in the six months prior year.

Also not the arrival numbers .

You need to understand the friends your talking to are not profiting as they don't spend ( the Chinese ) the Thai economy simply makes money in smaller increments like the day to day and room , tours etc.

But do it by the millions it adds up.

Other nationalities in the top-ten list of visitor expenditure in January June 2015 were:

Country (January June 2015) Amount (billion Baht) % change over January June 2014

China 190.919 +138.91

Malaysia 39.755 +64.58

United Kingdom 32.498 +4.55

Russia 31.768 -50.43

USA 29.938 +15.80

Australia 29.021 +6.18

Japan 27.972 +28.42

Korea 26.775 +29.12

Germany 25.094 +9.38

France 24.304 +16.35

http://www.thaitravelblogs.com/2015/08/top-10-nationalities-to-visit-thailand-january-to-june-2015/

Ps I did read the updated numbers and that sector (Chinese ) is if anything increasing faster each year.

The 300 billion is at least correct for this financial year 2015-2016

[spidermike007]

Watch the GDP plunge 30-60%.

Just to put it in prospective almost 9 million Chinese will visit Thailand this year contributing over 300 billion baht .

That's just Chinese .

Westerners who only UK figures in the top 5 financial contributes ( 3rd)

Contributes less than a 4th that amount. ( 70 billion just UK )

All westerners combined about 400 billion.

Of this 75% are couples , back packers, families not in any way involved in the sex industry regards purchasing a Thai product service from a sex worker.

This means about 100 - 125 billion baht is estimated to flow from sex tourism.

Less than half of "" just the Chinese market""

Malaysian , Japanese , South Korea , and assorted also transcend the sex tourist market in financial contribution.

The delusion that Thais need to maintain the industry is false.

The only reason they may let it exist in some form is to allow the estimated 300 million USD that flows north to families of sex workers.

However , the 30-60% plunge is very way out .

Considering the whole industry is only worth 10% total GDP .

The replacement factor of revenue from increasing Chinese numbers.

Up 900% in ten years .

And growing fast.

Restrictions on Chinese lower middle classes leaving China on Tourist visas means an invasion of sorts will come.

Thailand doesn't need the sex tourists.

They may spend 5 to one more than Chinese tourists.

But the sheer numbers of Chinese means they contribute far far more.

Something many sex tourists mistakenly fail to see.

Their days are not numbered ( sex tourists) but a few may end up black listed in future a others detained and even imprisoned as the military step up raids.

Take another look at this woman claiming her intensions.....her parents in a portrait behind her.

She looks like a person who is not to be doubted for an instant.

It's also a military government with absolute authority who doesn't care what the peasants supplying the bulk of sex workers think.

It also taps into Nationalistic sentiment , whilst ridding the nation of unwanted westerners haunting their every move.

It's actually pay back to what we say about them in some respects.

The others living here retired will in time meet new laws that make this harder...( eg 800',000 could be lifted and examined more closely)

This agenda is just the beginning of removing people not desired .

And in general that's not just sex tourists

Those numbers just do not sound correct. Of all of the hotel owners, restauranteurs, owners of gift shops, massage shops, and travel agents I have spoken with, all say the same thing. The Chinese tourists spend less money than any other group, that they have ever dealt with. So, why this high number? Perhaps that is the total generated, but does not take into account that alot of that money either stayed in China, or was repatriated back to China?

There is no doubt in the minds of these travel industry folks, that Western tourists are of far higher quality, when it comes to spending money. No doubt. It is a mistake of historic proportions, for the tourism ministry to target the Chinese market. A massive mistake.

This is unfortunately the only link to verify the more recent numbers .

Of 300 billion .

It's only 190 billion but last year and only for a six month period.

I think you will accept numbers are greater as even the increase last year was 138% up on prior .

Meaning 300 billion for whole year is at least accurate if not more .

Given 190 billion was achieved in the six months prior year.

Also not the arrival numbers .

You need to understand the friends your talking to are not profiting as they don't spend ( the Chinese ) the Thai economy simply makes money in smaller increments like the day to day and room , tours etc.

But do it by the millions it adds up.

Other nationalities in the top-ten list of visitor expenditure in January June 2015 were:

Country (January June 2015) Amount (billion Baht) % change over January June 2014

China 190.919 +138.91

Malaysia 39.755 +64.58

United Kingdom 32.498 +4.55

Russia 31.768 -50.43

USA 29.938 +15.80

Australia 29.021 +6.18

Japan 27.972 +28.42

Korea 26.775 +29.12

Germany 25.094 +9.38

France 24.304 +16.35

http://www.thaitravelblogs.com/2015/08/top-10-nationalities-to-visit-thailand-january-to-june-2015/

Ps I did read the updated numbers and that sector (Chinese ) is if anything increasing faster each year.

The 300 billion is at least correct for this financial year 2015-2016

I consider that figure to be deceiving, as alot of that money is either held in China, or repatriated to China. And also, the sheer numbers do not mean alot, if the rack rate on the rooms is discounted 65%, and the restaurants are running at break even, in order to accommodate the huge crowds, who fill their buffet plate to the point of brimming over the edge. The gift stores, jewelers, malls, massage shops, travel agents, domestic airlines, and many others are suffering as a result of the dramatic increase in Chinese tourism. Eventually, it will devastate the industry. Never trust numbers released by any government. Never.

[Plutojames88]

Your advice would in the instance of a military government especially more so correct.( don't believe everything a government says)

Nothing they say convinces me.

Point taken .

Correct.

What I will concede is money such as physical room hire and food and bus and/or boat hire does stay in the Thai economy.

I will also concede many are coming and that they do by sheer numbers make up a most profitable group.

Sure the numbers get fudged .

And you make the point they certainly don't spend .

However , we are dealing with big numbers.

It can be a simple matter of just surviving there adds up.

Even if their figures are 50% less they do allow me to still make my point.

Which was the Thais are trying to source income from them sufficiently as to not need to continue the sex tourist trade.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Plutojames88

[elgordo38]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

So now she wants to bring in western woman for what ? to take over the sex business when she sends all the Thai girls back to Issan to starve,

Obviously there is a need for this business when there are 120,000 woman working in the business,, If no one used them they would be naturally out of work !!!! And her comment "tourist's don't come here for such a thing" shows how out of touch she is. If they didn't come here for sex, then why is she doing anything at all ????

Not all do of course, the majority don't, but there are many that do, and they bring a lot of revenue into the country, especially up north, where most of the money spent on girls, ends up going. She will put Issan into more poverty than it already is !!!

I am surprised that somebody above her has not reeled her in yet. Thailand will take its tourist dollars were ever it can find them. They are not just sex dollars but alcohol, lodging, bribes and food as well. Sex dollars do not take a lot of infrastructure spending thus the profit margin is good and money goes back into local economies/communities. She seems like a lady politician that wishes to make a name for herself and chosen this as her platform. Edited July 23, 2016 by elgordo38

[slippery snake]

Why do most people bitch about the, No money spending Chinese ?? They book tours, they book hotels maybe booked from over seas, but the money must come here.. I see them with trollies full of food at the supermarkets and the same with woman buying beauty products at a pharmacy, and most I see at the malls have a bag or two full of things they have bought... It is just the bars that miss out, that is why they are so slow these days as most don't drink much or even at all, and of course the bar girls get sweet bugger all customers from Chinese guys, as most have a very attractive woman with them, and they are so cute and feminine... and much better looking than most bar girls ..... I have had some Chinese and Korean girlfriends and they sure know how to please a guy in bed, will do anything and everything a bar girl will do, and most times a lot more !!!!

I think mostly because they think anyone Asian is beneath the mighty European. And they're deluded enough to think that farangs are considered better tourists somehow.

Do you mean that the bar girls think farangs are better customers ? I bet they do, as not many will make money from the Chinese men..

But a restaurant I go to is full of Chinese every night, and they buy so much food, I saw 2 young slim Chinese woman buy 6 different plates of food, after they left, there was more than enough left over, that I could have had a big meal from it, and that is very common with Chinese, so they do spend money

here. I bet you never hear the restaurant owner complain about them !!!!

[SoiBiker]

I think a lot of the criticism of the Chinese around here is just farangs voicing their resentment at others moving in on what they see as 'their' territory. They've got used to the idea of Thailand as the white man's playground - but that may well not be it's future.

[Rc2702]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

I can't be bothered meeting girls on internet, I have tried a few times and usually they look nothing like the photoshop photos they send you,

plus it doesn't mean you will even get along well or even like them when you meet. It's just a waste of time for me, I'd much rather see a girl some where I like the look of and go over for a chat, if she not right, you just walk away, same as she can if your not right for her.. But much better to meet a person, in person, than on a bloody computer.. At least for me it is !!

In my life it's far worse. I get unsolicited cybersex offers from Western girls and desperate housewives all the time, they come via Skype. Silly to see how they prostitute themselves in front of a camera. Well, cybersex might be quite healthy, you don't get STD nor do you father a child. And it's cheap for cheap charlies. Of course, nothing compared to the silk skin of a real woman :-*

Cybersex lol how about talking finding common ground and if you do then meeting. The Internet is the future of everything including dating for a small few it seems and solicitation for the masses, it would appear.

[slippery snake]

It's strange that sex work should be an issue for the tourism minister all the time. Labour should be an issue for the labour department, too. It's theirs to give out labour licenses and working-permits, isn't it? And isn't it theirs to protect the labour market (including the sex market) from unfair practices and unwanted competition from the West?

Just wondering...

I feel it is more about stopping the traffiking of under age woman into the sex industries, from Burma, Cambodia, Laos, etc,

Most go out in the country to be used by Thai man.. I hardly see any that young, working in the bars here in Patong ..

[micmichd]

'Thailand is closed to sex trade' says countrys first female tourism minister

By Andrew Marszal

LONDON: -- Thailand has promised to eradicate its notorious sex tourism industry as it attempts to reinvent itself as a female-friendly travel destination.

Kobkarn Wattanavrangkul, the countrys first female tourism minister, made the pledge following a series of police raids on Thai brothels last month, amid concerns over human trafficking and underage sex workers.

We want Thailand to be about quality tourism. We want the sex industry gone, Ms Kobkarn told Reuters.

Tourists dont come to Thailand for such a thing. They come here for our beautiful culture.

Prostitution has been illegal in the south-east Asian country since 1960, but the industry employs more than 120,000 sex workers, with authorities frequently accused of turning a blind eye.

Full story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/17/thailand-is-closed-to-sex-tourism-says-countrys-first-female-tou/

-- The Telegraph 2016-07-18

Based on the other tourism lady's film festival racket, this lady no doubt has set up sex clubs and brothels just over the border in Laos and Cambodia. Outlaw it in LOS and feed border enterprises.

This is just a good attempt to get the tourists who frown upon thailand for this trade to visit. If it works and numbers increase then it's a step in the right direction and opens up the door for more scrutiny on the sex trade. It will never be eradicated but if this brave minister can prove she increased tourism of western/eastern females into thailand then it may be a basis to work on. I don't think that many guys (-40) knew about the sex industry before coming here and if it was not for the Internet I doubt a lot of guys would come into contact with that workforce. Is the Internet not already empowering the working girls to go it alone anyway which is voiding the need for in your face sleaze joints which seem to be full of men over 50 who are in most cases not literate where the Internet is concerned?

I can't be bothered meeting girls on internet, I have tried a few times and usually they look nothing like the photoshop photos they send you,

plus it doesn't mean you will even get along well or even like them when you meet. It's just a waste of time for me, I'd much rather see a girl some where I like the look of and go over for a chat, if she not right, you just walk away, same as she can if your not right for her.. But much better to meet a person, in person, than on a bloody computer.. At least for me it is !!

In my life it's far worse. I get unsolicited cybersex offers from Western girls and desperate housewives all the time, they come via Skype. Silly to see how they prostitute themselves in front of a camera. Well, cybersex might be quite healthy, you don't get STD nor do you father a child. And it's cheap for cheap charlies. Of course, nothing compared to the silk skin of a real woman :-*

Cybersex lol how about talking finding common ground and if you do then meeting. The Internet is the future of everything including dating for a small few it seems and solicitation for the masses, it would appear.

Dating sites just provide an incentive to get sex, like a marketplace where you buy a product or not. To be honest, women use it the same way, and their bodies are their products. Thai ladies at least keep their bodies in good shape, that's why they more precious on the market. Farang women are rather 2nd class offsale, so they aren't worth that much.

Yes, Thai polititics can be seen as a backslash to White colonialism. White men not only came here for the culture, they came here for those (in their eyes "exotic") women they missed so much. And they paid them. Pattaya (the so-called "US recreation area") was full of girls from the Issan. And, to GIs' surprise, they turned out to be more than sex puppets. They turned out to be companions, perfect housewives, humans that you can socialise with. Many of these females in fact invested their money, in children, in technical devices, in education, in business. And some made career in Pattaya. Rumours had it that Pattaya is now a good place for female middle class women. So they come to Pattaya, now work as clerks or some other white collar job. Remember, Pattaya and Thailand are hubs of the economic 3rd sector, aka the service sector. Guess this it what Thailand will be: a modern country with an educated wide range service economy that doesn't need to rely on the white man's doubtful "gifts" anymore.

[sjaak327]

That's it then. Expect a 90% drop in tourists in Bangers and Pattaya.

Well thought out, K. Khobkarn.

NO ! The good minster will have figures to prove otherwise, as ever.

Yes and the figures she would come up with would most likely be 100% accurate.

The number of people that visit Thailand just for the sex industry is tiny, a drop in the ocean.

It would have zero or close to zero effect on Bangkok, the drop would probably be a hell of a lot closer to a few percent than to 90%, wonder how people can possibly think otherwise.

The fun thing about the visible sex industry (to tourists) is that it again is a drop in the ocean as compared to the sex industry catering to the locals.

I wonder if these are under fire as well, I suppose not.

Edited July 23, 2016 by sjaak327

[SoiBiker]

That's it then. Expect a 90% drop in tourists in Bangers and Pattaya.

Well thought out, K. Khobkarn.

NO ! The good minster will have figures to prove otherwise, as ever.

Yes and the figures she would come up with would most likely be 100% accurate.

The number of people that visit Thailand just for the sex industry is tiny, a drop in the ocean.

It would have zero or close to zero effect on Bangkok, the drop would probably be a hell of a lot closer to a few percent than to 90%, wonder how people can possibly think otherwise.

The fun thing about the visible sex industry (to tourists) is that it again is a drop in the ocean as compared to the sex industry catering to the locals.

I wonder if these are under fire as well, I suppose not.

It's an interesting phenomenon - those who come to Thailand for sex often seem to have difficulty comprehending that not everyone else is like them. They often seem to have spent all their time in Thailand in the bar scene bubble, and to be quite unaware of what goes on outside that small world. As we see on this forum, they're also often dismissive and derisive towards anyone who expresses opinions and motivations that differ from theirs.

If one were to indulge in pop psychology, we could speculate that perhaps those with little capability for empathy and understanding of others are the most likely to end up paying for sex in the first place?

[thai3]

If the minister is serious they should look at prosecuting westerners who come here to buy sexual services, a few prison sentences would soon see bars (brothels) closing down. Don't go after the girls, go after the customers, many of them are perverts anyway Some of the popular bars have girls dressed in School 'uniforms' or have petite girls who look underage even if they are not, quite. Then there are the BDSM dungeon places, blow job bars with 'nurses' and and 'clubs' offering women in pairs who will do almost anything for a few k, romance and sanuk it certainly is not.

Edited July 23, 2016 by thai3