Thai sex industry under fire from tourism minister, police

[dageurreotype]

They know what is going on but everyone has to realize the people in positions of public authority really have no choice but to say what we hear and witness them say.

These announcements occur every so often and then their enthusiasm to actually crack down on the sex industry and keep it down fades away and life goes on.

In the end they can say they did their part to try to do the right thing.

Going on 40 years now they have been trying and it will not go away and can not be forced to go away short of a totalitarian super authoritarian Government administration brow beating and or physically beating the public into submission.

Cheers

Perhaps you're right.

I think that getting rid of the prostitute industry would not arrest the decline of Thailand.

But I also think that not getting rid of the prostitute industry will pretty much ensure an accelerating decline.

I share your view that any government in Thailand does not have the wherewithal in fortitude or determination to get rid of the prostitution industry. And I for one believe that the decline in Thailand will continue, and what's more, I welcome it as being well overdue.

Winnie

If it did it would be because they have neither wit nor will to produce an alternative 'holiday experience' bar beaches. Temples? not so much. They're a fundamentally unsophisticated backward country always looking for the easiest/fastest way to make their 'money today don't worry about tomorrow' thinking. It is truly pathetic that an entire nation depends on whoring out it's women because they haven't a clue as to how to provide anything else, bearing in mind Thailand comes 27th in this list of tourism GDP and none of those countries named above it are actually renowned for their 'girlfriend experience' https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/Tourism/Travel-and-Tourism-Total-Contribution-to-GDP/Total-Contribution-to-GDP-percent-share

[gemguy]

Funny stuff. My general rule when trying to figure out what

the government is doing, is to follow the money. Looks to me

like a minor shakedown to pump up tea money. Hard to believe

the tourism minister is about to shut off a multi billion dollar

source of income for poor Isan farm girls. But I suppose

as the tourism minister, must be sort of embarrassing

to realize such a large chunk of tourism income is from

prostitution.....Or perhaps the wrong group of people is

profiting from this trade, and they need to be whacked down

a notch. Will be interesting to see how Thai men react, as

any thinking person knows 90% of the entire industry is for

them.

Absolutely true.

Problem could be they will focus on the Tourism and Foreigner aspect of the sex industry far more so and possibly drive it underground while the Thai aspect of the sex industry will "sharpen up" under a climate of heavy handed regulation and control while more than likely many of the foreigners will turn to the many avenues of the sex for sale industry that the Thais currently enjoy while presently having very few foreigners involved.

Meantime you are not going to stop all the many ways and means of obtaining sex or selling sex as they are interdependent on one another and most often based on a person...women or man....first providing the service to a person willing to pay for the service......while both parties are in agreement and know what is about to happen.

So how can the government stop men and women meeting and having sex while criminalizing them both because some money was more or less openly exchanged.... so to speak.

Here in Thailand and similar to other countries, there is the 3 rd factor involving a place or establishment that facilitates the transactions.

If you have all 3 factors lined up and organized then the business of sex for sale can easily flourish and you will witness the sex for sale business branch out into many avenues of access and facilitation.

I think people here are not seriously understanding that this sex for sale issue exists in every country while Thailand is amongst the countries where sex for sale is far more prevalent and obvious in some respects and overall comes under the leisure and entertainment industries.

It is a very convoluted and somewhat contentious social issue while there are no easy solutions while demonizing the whole issue and criminalizing ALL the people involved is NOT the answer and never will be.

To applaud and encourage the authorities to crack down on sexual based activities and criminalize such activities is human folly and it has never worked out in any nation that has taken up that attitude and or tried to force the laws on the public.

You will see what does evolve if you seriously attempt to criminalize sex for money between people.

if anything it will simply go under ground in a manner of speaking and become all the more stigmatized and sleazy and criminal and dangerous.

Cheers

[micmichd]

Oh boy. Thailand minus girls and nightlife...

Who said there'll be no more girls and nightlife in Thailand?

You might still be able to find a girlfriend in Thailand if you treat her like a lady. But please don't make false promises anymore, and remember Thai ladies also belong to Thailand - not to Farangs.

[darren84310]

As always.... cheap words without any thought behind them.... firstly: How are the hundreds of thousands of sex workers going to make a living?.... secondly: What knock on effect would there be for girls' families, hotels, bars, restaurants, airlines etc, etc.

The answer is to invest very very heavily in education so that the girls of future generations can have a decent chance of getting a decent job.... That in tern will provide industry with a better workforce and be able to compete in a world market.

The cost for this to be successful would probably be around 100 times what they would be willing to pay and the timescale to make a significant impact probably around 50 to 100 years.

[Thunderbirds20]

Typical Thai thinking!

If you ban the sex trade, how are all the single mothers from Isaan going to pay to raise the kids they had with deadbeat, fun loving, responsibility averse Thai guys? Maybe you should start with a free and better education system that includes sex education, and how to respect a woman.

These poor girls give themselves willingly to these Thai guys and then find themselves pregnant and alone with a lifetime of responsibility to raise a kid. They are usually poorly or completely uneducated so the only way they can make enough to support the kid is to leave it with her parents to raise while she goes off to live in a small room with four other girls in the same situation, work insanely long hours, with only two days off a month and forced to go with any man that wants to have sex with her.

This crackdown on the sex trade is treating the symptom not the problem!

[weecree]

Im a guy, i have plenty of kinks and fetishes, i lived in thailand for just over 6 months and never once felt a burning need to engage with the sex industry. Well, i did engage with it, but more like going to the zoo. Nana is hilarious. Had my ass slapped by some very gorgeous trans girls. In hindsight i probably should have got more involved, itd give me some awesome memories. But i digress.

When you read stickman a bit, you get a couple of conflicting impressions from his travels through the sex industry. The first is that obviously this is mainly voluntary and the girls seem to be gaining some serious cash and trinkets. It doesnt look like a seedy hate filled den of iniquity... until the second impression comes through. Alcohol abuse is rampant. Youre seeing wasted potential. The trouble is that Thailand appears to have little means of tapping into that potential. The education system is bananas, and the economy appears to be a basket case riddled with exploitation and wage slavery.

Im still struck by that day i saw a 20 something woman, immaculately dressed in her office uniform, coming home around midnight. Obviously she was pretty enough and sharp enough dressed to draw my eye. I watched as she looked about, she saw me, but im farang (so i suppose it doesnt matter). She then moved aside part of the steel fence and ambled off to the only place i could see - a disused and clearly abandoned hotel. It still breaks my heart. She obviously trundles to work every day in a respectable job, and comes home to literally nothing. Sure, she may have made the choice to save on rent and send as much home as possible, but its still insane. Just under the surface, the country is clearly a mess. So why am i talking about this? because until someone gets to grip with it, the sex industry will go from strength to strength. And since the police are the number one racketeers with all fingers in all pies, its hard to think how Thailand could even begin doing more than paying lip service to its existence.

Edited July 17, 2016 by weecree

[Broken Record]

As always.... cheap words without any thought behind them.... firstly: How are the hundreds of thousands of sex workers going to make a living?.... secondly: What knock on effect would there be for girls' families, hotels, bars, restaurants, airlines etc, etc.

The answer is to invest very very heavily in education so that the girls of future generations can have a decent chance of getting a decent job.... That in tern will provide industry with a better workforce and be able to compete in a world market.

The cost for this to be successful would probably be around 100 times what they would be willing to pay and the timescale to make a significant impact probably around 50 to 100 years.

The problem is nobody in any type of power wants the masses to have a good education, they're easier to brainwash and control when poorly educated.

[Sparkles]

Yes I am sure the girls in the bars making serious money,

will be so happy to work in a factory making 10,000 baht

a month. But I guess no more marriages to farangs ,

as I am pretty sure the factory life would make it difficult

to meet Mr. Right...

Only an idiot marries a tart from a bar, most meet on the internet these days anyway

I know quite a few foreigners who married, and are still married, to ex bar girls ,some met them on the internet where at least they had minimal English skills.

Or do you think bar girls dont use social media and dating sites ? not all are tarts and got in the game for money as they have no work skills apart from the obvious

Many families are directly supported by girls who sell their body.Many know exactly what their daugheters are involved in

Pity the country is not more intested in improving education so girls can achieve a good job instead of being a low paid slave.

Perhaps you should investigate the wages of people in the seafood factory industry,rice field workers before you make judgement.

50 b an hour is an average wage for a waitress which is marginally more than a street sweeper on 6,000 baht mth as in our village.

Far more serious problems in this country than prostitution

Edited July 17, 2016 by Sparkles

[GAZZPA]

so many businesses would shut it would be very bad for the economy

For a while but it would clean up the streets. It would also make Thailand more friendly for family tourists and also give them a better base to create a much more high end holiday destination then they currently are. In my view people do not see this as a top tourist destination because the whole country is tainted by the sex trade.

Ok, prostitution will not go way, we all know that but making it more discrete and getting all the obvious sex workers out of view instead of crowding the entire beach front would not be a bad thing.

[SymS]

kobkarn.jpg

This the Minister of Sports and tourism, Kobkarn Wattanavrankul. I believe she is correctly referred to as a woman.

This is 2016. I've given up on the gender thing, as it has become way too complicated...

The fact that they let women be politicians now is too much for you?

No problem with being a man or woman, and I happen to agree with her policy, even though it will be hard to implement.

I was referring to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8LIHZDfmFM. "he/she" does not even seem to have a meaning anymore.

[micmichd]

As always.... cheap words without any thought behind them.... firstly: How are the hundreds of thousands of sex workers going to make a living?.... secondly: What knock on effect would there be for girls' families, hotels, bars, restaurants, airlines etc, etc.

The answer is to invest very very heavily in education so that the girls of future generations can have a decent chance of getting a decent job.... That in tern will provide industry with a better workforce and be able to compete in a world market.

The cost for this to be successful would probably be around 100 times what they would be willing to pay and the timescale to make a significant impact probably around 50 to 100 years.

"Invest in education" That's exactly what's happening here. So, a new Thai middle class emerges (at least in parts of Pattaya) while European economies go down the gutter.

[ironbark]

The minister has no idea. Get rid of the seedy side of Thailand and people will go elsewhere. People on holiday are looking for a contrast from the daily normality of life.

And there is nothing normal about Thailand!

The big increase in tourism is with Chinese who come in tour groups. I would be surprised if they make a significant contribution to the sex industry.

As you correctly stated most customers except in some tourist areas are local Thais.

If the govt really wants to shut down the sex industry they could do it overnight if they enforced improved wages and conditions in factories and construction work.

Edited July 17, 2016 by ironbark

[jcsmith]

The minister has no idea. Get rid of the seedy side of Thailand and people will go elsewhere. People on holiday are looking for a contrast from the daily normality of life.

And there is nothing normal about Thailand!

I can't speak of South America but in Asia there is no bigger brothel as Thailand.

So where would those sextourists go then? Probably the Thai hookers will also go there.

Cambodia most likely.

[tifino]

if mr minister administers his desires successfully - he'll do himself out of a job - the Portfolio of Nothing

[NickJ]

For me thinking about this. I was fine when pretty much Nana Plaza and the Golden Bar along with a few more were the only shows on the soi. it was 7 before the girls started on the floors. Pattaya was more lax.Some of the beer bars were open. But the whole crews would not be out til around six.

Now, soi 4 is a madhouse. Pattaya is just the same. It was better when it was tamer.

[charmonman]

" Her push comes amid an attempt by the country's tourism authorities to transform Thailand into a luxury destination to attract moneyed tourists."

So, in other words, she only wants prostitutes for the wealthy.

Maybe she should concentrate on the predatory practices of other segments of the tourist industry, or if she was really bold, question the whole idea of pushing ever increasing levels of tourist arrivals every year.

I came here first in 1987 and I can assure you the attractiveness of this place as a tourist destination has only gone downhill, and it has very little to do with whatever straw men (or straw women) this so-called tourism minister is pursuing. She sounds like a typical self-righteous upper middle class hi-so who has no idea of the struggles of real people. Why doesn't she concern herself with real issues like poverty and violent crime if she truly wants to do something useful?

[tezzainoz]

I always laugh when I hear and read all you 3 times a year thai tourists, when I go to work in Pattaya I always take the Thai wife and her brother with me, they love to laugh at the stupid Farlang who pay a small fortune for ugly old ladies.

when you live in the country side learn to speak thai. talk to any hard working Thai man over 50 saying you want to help a poor family with financial help. and they will introduce you to beautiful girl with in 12 hours

this is there culture and has been for a hundred years

Stop Complaining. learn to speak Thai, and enjoy the food and the other things that Thailand

Her Family needs security, and she will treat you like a King

[Berty100]

The minister has no idea. Get rid of the seedy side of Thailand and people will go elsewhere. People on holiday are looking for a contrast from the daily normality of life.

And there is nothing normal about Thailand!

Let me correct you.

Shut down the sex industry and a certain category of people will go elsewhere, while again another category will increase to come to Thailand, as they now avoid it because of it's seedy reputation.

The latter category is also known to spend more per day than the former, especially at businesses that pay taxes.

[micmichd]

The minister has no idea. Get rid of the seedy side of Thailand and people will go elsewhere. People on holiday are looking for a contrast from the daily normality of life.

And there is nothing normal about Thailand!

The big increase in tourism is with Chinese who come in tour groups. I would be surprised if they make a significant contribution to the sex industry.

As you correctly stated most customers except in some tourist areas are local Thais.

If the govt really wants to shut down the sex industry they could do it overnight if they enforced improved wages and conditions in factories and construction work.

Surely Thank will improved wages and conditions in factories and condition work. There are all kinds of new jobs sponsored by the new welfare state of Thailand, of course with quotas for Thai people only.

If Farangs feel they had to invest some money in Thailand, they would probably also be welcome as long as they acknowledge their limits and accept they're part of international joint ventures.

Welcome to globalisation

[tifino]

" Her push comes amid an attempt by the country's tourism authorities to transform Thailand into a luxury destination to attract moneyed tourists."

So, in other words, she only wants prostitutes for the wealthy.

Maybe she should concentrate on the predatory practices of other segments of the tourist industry, or if she was really bold, question the whole idea of pushing ever increasing levels of tourist arrivals every year.

I came here first in 1987 and I can assure you the attractiveness of this place as a tourist destination has only gone downhill, and it has very little to do with whatever straw men (or straw women) this so-called tourism minister is pursuing. She sounds like a typical self-righteous upper middle class hi-so who has no idea of the struggles of real people. Why doesn't she concern herself with real issues like poverty and violent crime if she truly wants to do something useful?

it's obvious yes

- attract only the Rich, who only sex-tour for the high class girls, and pay real money the taxman can get...

...as what's now happening is all the ruff riff-raff coming, attracted to the streetgirls, means everything is done cash, and the country gets nothing out of it

[Squigy]

Until the ATM stops supplying

[majhiggins]

"Sprawling" as if implying this is a recent and rapidly spreading outbreak? It is an aspect of Thai culture as ingrained and totally normal and accepted as tuk-tuks, temples and rice farms. It's not viewed as sinful or shameful or degrading to women. In fact, a large part of Issan's economy relies on working girls sending big money back to mom and dad on the farm. While it exists here to some small extent, Thai prostitution seldom involves enslavement, human trafficing or forced drug dependence. I't also is, for better or worse one of the key attractions of Thailand for eestern tourists.

[perdido]

Good luck to her, it's an industry riddled with crime, disease, drugs and despair. The country might start to be a decent place with less of it, although you cannot get rid of it completely, filth is best swept away as much as possible.

Good luck to her, it's an industry riddled with crime, disease, drugs and despair."

Nice sentiments, but do away with the "industry" and watch crime, disease, drugs and despair double. Vast numbers of people in the "industry" have made better lives, many have found life partners and some happiness. There will always be "casualties" and it is they that the government must help.

Do away with this "industry" and watch tourism numbers plummet. If Minister Kobkarn thinks all people come here for the warm and fuzzy feeling of being in Amazing Thailand with its pristine beaches, crystal clear waters, magnificent ancient temples and unique foods, she is in serious denial of reality.

Remove the "night life" from Pattaya and Bangkok and other tourist areas and watch the streets empty and the public outcry. Tens of thousands of people not actually engaged in the "industry" actually make a living selling food, souvenirs,hotel rooms and other peripheral things.

The Minister needs another look at the major ramifications of this so-called plan. I didn't even mention that three letter word.

...pardon my ignorance , but what IS the 3 letter word...?

[thai3]

"Sprawling" as if implying this is a recent and rapidly spreading outbreak? It is an aspect of Thai culture as ingrained and totally normal and accepted as tuk-tuks, temples and rice farms. It's not viewed as sinful or shameful or degrading to women. In fact, a large part of Issan's economy relies on working girls sending big money back to mom and dad on the farm. While it exists here to some small extent, Thai prostitution seldom involves enslavement, human trafficing or forced drug dependence. I't also is, for better or worse one of the key attractions of Thailand for eestern tourists.

Wrong on every point, it is regarded as shameful, it' s the money that's not, and it is not a mainstay of Issan economy however much the users of prostitutes like to fantasize that it is, thus justifying their paying for sex.

[Deepinthailand]

Male or female the tourism minister is living in la-la land.

Rid Thailand of the sex industry randy farangs will go elsewhere.

Also unemployment/ poverty will increase 10 fold.

That's you considered opinion personaly I think it will be a good thing in the long run for Thailand

[iReason]

The tourists? pfft...

"According to reliable surveys of sexual behavior, every day at least 450,000 Thai men visit prostitutes."

"More than 75 percent of Thai males have been to prostitutes, and 75 percent of them go to the cheapest brothels, where the AIDS infection is most prevalent."

"In the northern province of Phrae, a senior Thai official says, policemen own some of the brothels."

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/14/magazine/a-plague-awaits.html?pagewanted=all

It didn't bother Police Chief Somyot.

Heck, he even held a press conference in Nana and went around glad handing patrons...

[micmichd]

Until the ATM stops supplying

Even Thai ladies must live when their Farangs disappear. If you worship your money more than good companionship with a sexy Thai lady, then you haven't understood what it's all about. Farang women in Farang countries would do the same. Get divorced, run away, and they'll be after you. Leave them alone, and you might find them on dating sites or Skype.

[natway09]

The main problem I see with heavy curtailment of this industry is that if you check on the ladies involved they are the major

breadwinner (s) in the family of which we already know the majority who cater for tourists hail from Isaan.

The big goldfish bowls which cater for mainly Thais have a different mix of women.

My question is, who is going to support all these village households now that the girls will no longer be able to send home

a subsistence living for the families without which some will be destitute.

One crop of rice a year will not cut the mustard Mrs Minister.

The rich get richer & the poor get poorer again.

So much for Happiness for the people

[Gweiloman]

The minister has no idea. Get rid of the seedy side of Thailand and people will go elsewhere. People on holiday are looking for a contrast from the daily normality of life.

And there is nothing normal about Thailand!

Let me correct you.

Shut down the sex industry and a certain category of people will go elsewhere, while again another category will increase to come to Thailand, as they now avoid it because of it's seedy reputation.

The latter category is also known to spend more per day than the former, especially at businesses that pay taxes.

Being from the tourist industry myself, I know of no one who avoids Thailand because of it's seedy reputation. On the other hand, I know for a fact that a lot of regional companies conduct incentive tours, kick off meetings etc in Bangkok and Pattaya because the target audience (dealers, agents, principals) likes and indulges in it's offerings.

[cumgranosalum]

THailand is wAy out of touch with this issue...and the minister only re-enforces this with his inane comments.

Do they really think that marching into and shutting down brothels will do the job??? How daft can youy get?

the sex industry has 2 main components - the women (mostly) and the customers. both are pretty pathetic. ..but primarily the women are victims so prosecuting them is both inhumane and insane

However if you close their venues, you just sweep the problem under the car - in fact you will make the problem worse -

So........don't go for the premises - arrest the customers - then the industry will soon dry up.

but of course those who make and enforce the laws in Thailand are for the most part elderly males themselves and couldn't possibly see that the problem is they themselves and their archaic attitude towards women.