The Reasons?

[Casanundra]

qwqaw

So therefore I ask that if you have a Thai spouse, especially one that is educated, ask them to become proactive... SPEAK UP, write letters to representatives, to Thai newspapers... heck, march down the street in protest (in a non-martial law province).

No offence taken.

I actually mentioned what you proposed to my wife sometime in October when I pointed out to her that current Thai policy meant that she as a Thai was being forced to make some sort of choice and sacrifice because she made the error of choosing a foreigner for a husband (how dare she).

When I told her to protest, she did exactly that. She went down to immigration and was told to just basically lie about what she did for a living and to claim that she owned a street vending cart or something similar, to pick up the appropriate tax return form, make a claim for the 90% tax discount that this would give her and then support a marriage visa for her husband by doing it that way instead. Basically, they told her to find the middle ground and live with it.

As the wife says, "what can she do about it, she is just one person"

[zzz9]

So..what we got here?

a house that u need to be smart and fight for your right to own it.

a country that make u run to the border/pay lots of money(tax/company or whatever under table..).

a lower income then in our own country.

We married but the gov not accept us as migrants.

Did we really made the right choice?...

[Rajah]

Did we really made the right choice?...

Are there ex-pat sites about Laos and Cambodia? Can anyone suggest one?

[kriswillems]

Situation:

Most young married couples have no way to have a calm life in Thailand, no matter ho much money they have.

1. The family needs to 40K month

2. Average Thai income is <10K

3. Farang has to work to get >30K

4. Thai government doesn't like farang to work in Thailand

5. Farang need a work permit which he can not get

6. Farang can't find a legal job (unless he's an expert or experienced English teacher)

7. Family gets less than 40K official income

8. Farang is kicked out

9. Families are broken

Solutions:

1. Let farang to be corrupt (just like Thai people) and pay tax on income he doesn't have.

2. Runs to the border every 3 months until you're 50 and travel to singapore once a year.

Contrasts:

* Old bar-hanging single guy of +50 years is allowed to stay in Thailand just showing 800,000 baht on his OWN bank account, while his neighbours living 50 metres further, a young and happily married couple with children, are kicked out and seperated.

* Not even one western country treats foreign partners in such an inhumane way as Thailand does.

Edited November 30, 2006 by kriswillems

[thai_narak]

Situation:

Most young married couples have no way to have a calm live in Thailand, no matter ho much money they have.

1. The family needs to 40K month

2. Average Thai income is <10K

3. Farang has to work to get >30K

4. Thai government doesn't like farang to work in Thailand

5. Farang need a work permit which he can not get

6. Farang can't find a legal job (unless he's an expert or experienced English teacher)

7. Family gets less than 40K official income

8. Farang is kicked out

9. Families are broken

Solutions:

1. Let farang to be corrupt (just like Thai people) and pay tax on income he doesn't have.

2. Runs to the border every 3 months until you're 50 and travel to signapore once a year.

Contrasts:

* Old bar-hanging single guy of +50 years is allowed to stay in Thailand just showing 800,000 baht on his OWN bank account, while his neighbours living 50 metres further, a young and happily married couple with children, are kicked out and seperated.

* Not even one western country treats foreign partners in such an inhumane way as Thailand does.

bull's eye!

Edited November 30, 2006 by thai_narak

[zzz9]

I have to say that kriswillems describes in a perfect exact way how it works in real life.

I feel very hurt and offensive(maybe not the right word in english)..

I dont have even words to express this "thai way" to treat people like my group (young and married).

but hey...who am I to say anything..I am just visiting the kingdom..

[Lite Beer]

I have to say that kriswillems describes in a perfect exact way how it works in real life.

I feel very hurt and offensive(maybe not the right word in english)..

I dont have even words to express this "thai way" to treat people like my group (young and married).

but hey...who am I to say anything..I am just visiting the kingdom..

This constant wingeing by you two does not solve anything. I know it does not seem fair but you would be better using your energies trying to find a way to deal with your problem.

[dog412]

while i may sound harsh, i personally find it a bit hard to understand why a "young" person would "waste" his personal resources trying to establish a life in this country, while those from this country are establishing themselves by getting educated and earning money in the same countries that some of us have left and decry.Thailand is where you spend your money, not where you earn it, excepting of course, specialized skills.

[kriswillems]

while i may sound harsh, i personally find it a bit hard to understand why a "young" person would "waste" his personal resources trying to establish a life in this country, while those from this country are establishing themselves by getting educated and earning money in the same countries that some of us have left and decry.Thailand is where you spend your money, not where you earn it, excepting of course, specialized skills.

I think most of the young married couples are trying to start a life in Thailand because they see that their partner is much more happy in Thailand. Most of us have seen Thailand. We know all tourist places. We're not staying in Thailand for the tourist attractions, nor for the weather. We're thinking about Thailand as the country where we want to work and live and see our children grow up.

Living in a rich country is not the same as being happy. Happiness can't be measured by the richness of a country. Happiness means the people around you are happy, if that is in Thailand, then Thailand is the place where we shall try to live.

Most young married couples are not married for money or to find a way to escape from Thailand. If a Thai girl want to escape from her country and get rich she better marries an old rich guy, not a young guy that still needs to build his life. So most Thai people married with young foreign partners never had the intention to leave Thailand, they just fell in love with the wrong person. And their relation is just being put under serious pressure because the absurd and very strict visa regulations (for young married couples).

My wife has a university degree from a good Thai university. This degree has little value in europe but reasonable value in Thailand. Thailand is where her family lives. Why would she like to live in Europe?

Edited November 30, 2006 by kriswillems

[secrets]

well...reading replies to some of the posts its no surprise that Thailand wants to rid itself of some of the bad.

if anyone in authority reads this forum they must be truly shocked at a few of the people they have allowed to live in Thailand.

i have never read such rude intolerant posts from some posters.

and of course it seems that some dont read posts threw properly before going on the attack.

good manners cost nothing.!

[brahmburgers]

well...reading replies to some of the posts its no surprise that Thailand wants to rid itself of some of the bad.

if anyone in authority reads this forum they must be truly shocked at a few of the people they have allowed to live in Thailand.

i have never read such rude intolerant posts from some posters.

and of course it seems that some dont read posts threw properly before going on the attack.

good manners cost nothing.!

Dear Secrets, it's up to you to decide which side of the moral high ground you want to plant your flag. I'm one who isn't bothered if some Thai people might be offended at what's aired. To me it's more important that truth be told: there is xenophobia here and it rears it's fuzzy head often and harmfully. there are a plethora of unnecessary rules that impact upon farang. The rules stem from paranoid fears that farang might take part of Thailand or Thainess away from Thais. That's not happening and it won't happen. If Thais are getting unduly influenced by 'bad' western trends, it's their own doing - and would happen whether there were farang here or not. The net result of the silly rules imposed on visas etc is that many decent farang will be forced to leave Thailand - therefore their potential contributions (English teachers, donations to charities, etc) won't be realized - and budding families will be torn asunder. And many undesirables will continue to come and stay in Thailand because they'll find ways to circumvent the rules. Anyone who thinks the average Thai man has some sort of moral high ground to defend - doesn't really know Thai men and how they manifest in the real day-to-day world. Like humans everywhere, there are good and bad. Because we're in a foreign country, should we only talk glowingly - as if narrating a pristene travel brochure? That's your choice, but I'd rather speak the truth as I see it. I've been here long enough to consider Thailand my co-country. Like in the States, a black man can call his brothers 'niggers' but a white man would get his butt kicked for using that word in the wrong company. Interestingly, Bill Cosby just came out with a drawn out monologue which thrashes low-life blacks (in New Orleans) for acting like imbeciles and having no pride in themselves.

[ncguy]

Agree with francis. They arent really trying to drive people out as such, buy are definitely more interested in smaller number of rich people coming on holiday then large numbers of unwashed travelling backpackers. You can surely see some logic in it i guess.

Well, ... not really. Because that would imply that backpackers tend to want to stay more than 90 days. Assuming that most backpackers are students this is not likely to be the case.

I dont think they re actively trying to drive anyone out, its just that the way they do business here seems to be very reactive and knee-jerk. And the result of Karr is that they knee-jerked a policy in that seems to drive a lot of people out who were working in either grey areas, or completely black areas.

That is the official explanation. Except the people working in such business (i.e. contract workers from neighbouring countries) have probably never done a visa run in their life. I just heard yesterday that they just 'disappear' after their admission period is over. Also heard about specialized transport enterprises with specifically fitted trucks that can take up to 25 people inside the undercarriage. Again, such people are no danger to the forces that are...

I have also seen reports that they are afraid of the Caribean Factor, whereby all the rich foreigners buy up a small plot of paradise and suddenly the locals cant get a house, or even feel alianated in their own country. Cant blame them for that eithr really.

This is proably true. But all you can buy here is a condo, right? For everything else you need a Thai who puts his/her name on the deal...

And: where is the lobby of apartment/house owners? They must make a lot of money from visa runners. They won't make money from tourists.

All considered, I can come up with only one reason: because they CAN.

they are not trying to drive people away, just making things a little more difficult and in turn, puts more money into the pockets of those in charge. the fluxuation of the thai baht against major currencies is a way for the interim government to show it muscle......proving that it can do things that the previous adminstration could not. In the long run this will hurt thailand, because major economies will be looking elswhere for buying their goods. Its all about making money. Thailand needs the foreingers, since tourism is a major part of the countrys income. Take that away and exports slowing down due to the price of the baht........and things will gradually return back to the way they were!!

[dog412]

while i may sound harsh, i personally find it a bit hard to understand why a "young" person would "waste" his personal resources trying to establish a life in this country, while those from this country are establishing themselves by getting educated and earning money in the same countries that some of us have left and decry.Thailand is where you spend your money, not where you earn it, excepting of course, specialized skills.

I think most of the young married couples are trying to start a life in Thailand because they see that their partner is much more happy in Thailand. Most of us have seen Thailand. We know all tourist places. We're not staying in Thailand for the tourist attractions, nor for the weather. We're thinking about Thailand as the country where we want to work and live and see our children grow up.

Living in a rich country is not the same as being happy. Happiness can't be measured by the richness of a country. Happiness means the people around you are happy, if that is in Thailand, then Thailand is the place where we shall try to live.

Most young married couples are not married for money or to find a way to escape from Thailand. If a Thai girl want to escape from her country and get rich she better marries an old rich guy, not a young guy that still needs to build his life. So most Thai people married with young foreign partners never had the intention to leave Thailand, they just fell in love with the wrong person. And their relation is just being put under serious pressure because the absurd and very strict visa regulations (for young married couples).

My wife has a university degree from a good Thai university. This degree has little value in europe but reasonable value in Thailand. Thailand is where her family lives. Why would she like to live in Europe?

first off, i do appreciate your idealism and am not here to persuade you otherwise. intelligence is taught by the society one evolves in, each is different. however, as we have found, it is better to be at the position of advantage,than non-advantage. as you yourself state, the Thai university degree has little "value" in Europe. why is that? my family does not live here, but i left the nest a long time ago, it's called becoming a adult. i personally have no children to be concerned about, so i retired as when the finances became sufficient. if children were involved, i would be working and investing until i was certain, as certain as one can be, that i could best see to the interest of the children's future. that would be a tough task. life is not all about happiness, there is an abundance of hard work and tough decisions mixed into the process. best of luck.

[Cyberstar]

2. Average Thai income is <10K

I really can't buy this argument. You come from a country where you sort of were born with a silverspoon in your mouth compared to the "birth right" situation of "average" Thais, and where education is freely avaiable for anyone who bothers to make an effort. Right?

The "average" Thai is a person who never have had a chance (due to poverty) to learn any skills beyond what's offered in elementary school. The only thing they've learnt after that is how to survive on a day-to-day basis doing some sort of "business"... Never knowing wether they'll be out of business next week. Their only "advantage" are that they can stay in Thailand, regardless, without any chance of getting a visa to go somewhere else... And there you come - with your silverspoon background - and complain that your situation is unfair compared to theirs ...

As a minimum, you should compare your situation, not to the "average" Thai, but to those who come from a family that could afford more then elementary school for their offspring. How much do educated Thais make on an average? Have you researched that?

Yes, it's true: Thai authorities most certainly do want something in return for using those precious stamps sitting on their desktops... But - as should be obvious from their exclusion of richness (money in the bank) as sufficient on its own - they do put a meaning into "something" other than money.

What do you have to offer in return, besides leaning back and complain instead of giving it a go?

Yes, Thailand is a tough place to survive - especially if you have to rely on Thai income... But why not take it as an opportunity to learn how to beat obstacles rather than sit idle and complain about unfairness and uncertainty.

I'm 55 with a pregnant Thai wife and running a business, based on an investment of the bare minimum size. I do have a decent amount of dough in various pension funds, but none of them will become avaiable until I'm 65. So - having decided to make Thailand my home (for good and worse) I can't but do my best to make it here. My business is on the streetlevel with about a million Thai competitors within a radius of 1 KM. Last year the business made well enough to pay me a salary of 40K (last year the husband had to make that amount on his own - this years lawchange an improvement) plus a salary to my wife of 5K (because that's a WP-requirement in Chiang Mai) ... I'm not a smart business guy (never been anything but a measly employee until Thailand gave me an opportunity) ... So, how do I beat the Thais sufficiently to survive? ... The answer is: By offering some services that requires skills (not much skills compared to countrymen, but skills the competition never have had the chance to aquire) ... How much money did I need to start up? ... Answer: less than two years saving off an "average" income in my European homecountry.

So, on the buttom line, it really takes very little to make a living here: All you need is at least a few cash and at least a few skills... And just a tiny bit of backbone... Yes, I know: They might refuse even my visa extension next year. But, then again I might get killed 10 times in traffic accidents long before that ... Isn't life in Thailand exiting??? ...

[drummer]

Only the rich are good and the poor are bad? Gimme a break!

In Thailand, the rich are rich precisely because they ARE good! If you made a lot of merit in the last mife, you are rich in this life.

If you were a lowlife alcoholic child molester, then you are poor and dark-skinned in this life.

I admire a great many things about Buddhism, but this particular aspect of Thai Buddhism really gets my goat as being harmful to society.

Contrasts:

* Old bar-hanging single guy of +50 years is allowed to stay in Thailand just showing 800,000 baht on his OWN bank account, while his neighbours living 50 metres further, a young and happily married couple with children, are kicked out and seperated.

* Not even one western country treats foreign partners in such an inhumane way as Thailand does.

Good example: The young couple have bad spirits because they don't have enough money. The older bar owner is a good guy, because he does.

Money is a direct indicator of merit in Thailand!

Edited November 30, 2006 by drummer

[kriswillems]

2. Average Thai income is <10K

I really can't buy this argument. You come from a country where you sort of were born with a silverspoon in your mouth compared to the "birth right" situation of "average" Thais, and where education is freely avaiable for anyone who bothers to make an effort. Right?

The "average" Thai is a person who never have had a chance (due to poverty) to learn any skills beyond what's offered in elementary school. The only thing they've learnt after that is how to survive on a day-to-day basis doing some sort of "business"... Never knowing wether they'll be out of business next week. Their only "advantage" are that they can stay in Thailand, regardless, without any chance of getting a visa to go somewhere else... And there you come - with your silverspoon background - and complain that your situation is unfair compared to theirs ...

As a minimum, you should compare your situation, not to the "average" Thai, but to those who come from a family that could afford more then elementary school for their offspring. How much do educated Thais make on an average? Have you researched that?

Yes, it's true: Thai authorities most certainly do want something in return for using those precious stamps sitting on their desktops... But - as should be obvious from their exclusion of richness (money in the bank) as sufficient on its own - they do put a meaning into "something" other than money.

What do you have to offer in return, besides leaning back and complain instead of giving it a go?

Yes, Thailand is a tough place to survive - especially if you have to rely on Thai income... But why not take it as an opportunity to learn how to beat obstacles rather than sit idle and complain about unfairness and uncertainty.

I'm 55 with a pregnant Thai wife and running a business, based on an investment of the bare minimum size. I do have a decent amount of dough in various pension funds, but none of them will become avaiable until I'm 65. So - having decided to make Thailand my home (for good and worse) I can't but do my best to make it here. My business is on the streetlevel with about a million Thai competitors within a radius of 1 KM. Last year the business made well enough to pay me a salary of 40K (last year the husband had to make that amount on his own - this years lawchange an improvement) plus a salary to my wife of 5K (because that's a WP-requirement in Chiang Mai) ... I'm not a smart business guy (never been anything but a measly employee until Thailand gave me an opportunity) ... So, how do I beat the Thais sufficiently to survive? ... The answer is: By offering some services that requires skills (not much skills compared to countrymen, but skills the competition never have had the chance to aquire) ... How much money did I need to start up? ... Answer: less than two years saving off an "average" income in my European homecountry.

So, on the buttom line, it really takes very little to make a living here: All you need is at least a few cash and at least a few skills... And just a tiny bit of backbone... Yes, I know: They might refuse even my visa extension next year. But, then again I might get killed 10 times in traffic accidents long before that ... Isn't life in Thailand exiting??? ...

Cyberstar,

If I was talking about an average Thai income <10K, I was talking about the Thai partner, not about the foreign partner. The foreign partner needs to make >30K and for that you need good qualifications (labour will not do).

I believe you've the correct and only possible attitude to survive as a foreigner in Thailand. I've saved some money and I'll find a job there. I am an expert in my field (electronics/software) and I have knowledge and experience most Thai people don't have. My wife (or her family) is not poor. I will survive.

But there are also many foreigners that don't have the advantages I have, or that live on the country side. The new visa rules almost make life impossible for those couples. Do these people not have the right to stay together? No matter how you look at it, Thai visa rules for young married couples are inhumane compared to the visa rules of most countries.

PS. You'll not loose your 1 year extention if you've 800K in the bank because you're older than 50. I would almost wish I was already 50

Edited November 30, 2006 by kriswillems

[drummer]

The point is : why don't we have precise numbers ?

Thais like to phrase the law so as to give a lot of leeway for the inividual corcumstance. You aren't likely to get '3 Strikes' laws in LOS.

[drummer]

I would be happy to support laws that make tourist visas for tourists only.

However, these laws do give ample run-around for those that want to. Criminals can and do have plenty of options to stay in LOS.

The issue of permanent residence is different. Thailand stands to benefit economically from an easy permanent resident or longstay visa program. They could do extended background checks,

Another word about the backpackers, is that backpackers spend more than the well heeled tourists. Not only do backpackers stay longer, they also take the time to go to the temples, the local restaurants, and stay in locally owned and run guesthouses ... this puts nearly all their money into the Thai economy. THis means that their money gets spent and spent again in Thailand - and the Thai goverment gets to tax it and tax it again and again.

Well heeled tourists tend to stay in internationally owned hotels and buy food in internationally owned restaurants. This helps Paris Hilton buy a new dress. It just doesn't make sense economically to prefer the latter over the former.

Even the budget longstayers contribute mightily to the Thai economy. In another thread I calculated the visa runners economic impact as at least 0.5% of the Thai GDP. (you can search for the calculations) .... this is a LOT!

Other nations, like Malaysia, are opening their borders because of this reason. The backpackers and the longstayers add a lot of money that floats all boats.

But, then, we all know the reason for these laws has nothing to do with economy and everything to do with xenophobia and ironic attempts at face saving.

[cclub75]

they are not trying to drive people away, just making things a little more difficult and in turn, puts more money into the pockets of those in charge. the fluxuation of the thai baht against major currencies is a way for the interim government to show it muscle......proving that it can do things that the previous adminstration could not. In the long run this will hurt thailand, because major economies will be looking elswhere for buying their goods. Its all about making money. Thailand needs the foreingers, since tourism is a major part of the countrys income. Take that away and exports slowing down due to the price of the baht........and things will gradually return back to the way they were!!

Your conclusions might be correct (make it difficult to make more bucks), but the you're wrong on the facts : The governement has nothing to do with the movements on the currency ! And the visa/land/foreign business law drama started well before the coup.

Furthermore, the news rules won't affect tourists. It's absolutly not the target. I don't know mainstream tourists who stay in Thailand for more than 90 days every 6 months...

So we're back at square one.

My own theory : we are too many. Natural selection would take too long to do the job, if i may say. So they focus on long term residents.

Long term residents + tourists and other short timers visas = visible farangs. Plus, like other people said : risk on "thainess" with "foreign influences" (fashion with all thai governements, military or civil), etc.

Sum'up everything, and you have a nice little crackdown on its way...

[oxymoron]

I am not sure if it was Mr T who was specifically targeting foreigners or whether it's an ingrained national trait to just be so protective of all things Thai.

I work at a government office that gives me insights that would make the average foreigner shudder with disbelief at the things being proposed by some of the more senior government people I work with. To give you one example of this, we had a meeting yesterday and I counted no less than 7 proposals out of the 10 that were tabled on subjects concerning nominee shares, land ownership issues, foreign investments and generally protecting Thai people from the foreign devils "taking their livelihoods and reducing their profits" that I almost bit my tongue off in a bid to keep my thoughts locked in and to not say anything too drastic else I burst their protectionistic bubble.

I too fall into the category of being very highly educated, also married to an educated Thai, have sufficient funds in the bank to stay here indefinitely (if I wanted to) but being under 40 (just) it means that the Thai authorities in their mindset don't recognise or understand that I and people like me could possibly have enough money to retire or relax this young so they insist on making it harder for us.

As such, the collective "we' are in a constant state of flux here and we will never really be accepted. We are tolerated 'yes' but we will never ever in a zillion years be accepted. After listening to the continued nationalist banter and protectionist nonsense coming from the senior government folks in my office who continue to hide behind notions of 'we are still a developing country' to justify their stance, I have no illusions about what is happening here and the indications are that things are not likely to change for sometime to come. If at all.

I will be leaving soon with my Thai wife to new shores as part of my longer term retirement plan and will just come back in 10 years time when it's my turn to officially retire at 50 with enough money to live the life of riley doing what ever I please.

In the mean time if anyone wants a senior position working for the Thai Government and is happy to listen to senior Thai folk proposing things that will continue to bolt down the hatches against foreign devils coming into Thailand then a post may be up for grabs in the next month or so. All you need to qualify for the post is to have done a Doctorate, hold a Bachelors Degree in Business, a Masters Degree in Engineering, a Masters Degree in Law and 20 years industry experience... oh and the ability to understand Thai and speak fluent English whilst accepting a salary equivalent to a MacDonalds or Burger King counter clerk

I continually find it amazing that many posts here on TV, made by foreigners, condemn the immigration policy of Thailand, as if that would make any difference.

Once it would be nice if a Thai spouse, or a group of such spouses, would petition (and demand) the Thai government for change. Sure it wouldn't happen overnight, but over time, anything is possible.

If the same Thai immigration policy were to be exercised in the UK or the US, half the populace would probably revolt... or just ignore the policies (the US is a good example). They would summon the media to report immigration injustices, or about a deportation proceeding that would separate mother and child. This is always done in an effort to sway public opinion. Most people (unfortunately not many Thais) know this tactic all to well.

So therefore I ask that if you have a Thai spouse, especially one that is educated, ask them to become proactive... SPEAK UP, write letters to representatives, to Thai newspapers... heck, march down the street in protest (in a non-martial law province). I know it is not Thai style, but spouses need to understand that a marriage to a foreigner requires them to change their mentality.

Till this day happens, I think it will be obvious what will happen.

Now if only my wife had a university education, didn't have a two year old to look after, and another on the way... hmmm.... for now I can only dream.

P.S. Casanundra - I wasn't picking on your post perse, but chose it because it seems that you write well, and have access to the policy makers and the plans they are conjuring up.

Gumball I too had these radical thoughts, only us oldies may remember that prior to around 2000 a TW had lost many of her national rights when she married a falang. Prior to then she was not legally able to buy land in her own name, thats why all our property for 18 years has been in her mothers name. This law has now changed as a result I am told of "people power" (a very effective tool here if we reflect on the last few months) and representation to the world "human rights organisation" There may be a window of 'opportunity here look at the removal of ML on 35 provinces to improve Thailands world image. Maybe we should all pack up go home for the 3-4 months required and not send or leave any money behind for the TW's, education or not I bet that would result in some action

[Gumballl]

Oxymoron, I wish I could stop sending my money to LOS, but my conscience won't allow it. I have a wife and a 2 year old daughter, with another kid on the way in about 8 months.

For the last 11 months I have been trying to get my wife a visa to come to the US. It sure would be nice if I could have spent this time with my family. Instead, I only get to spend 2 weeks every few months with them, although this year I have only been to visit them twice.

If my memory is correct, I believe I have only spent about 10 weeks total with my daughter since she was born. And all this because of Thai policies. Everytime she sees me for the "first" time, its like I am a complete stranger.

The Thai elite/gov't should be exposed to the media, the UN, etc, etc for ignoring what most would consider basic human rights for one to be with their spouse and family. Instead the Thai gov't does everything possible to make it impossible. //edit to remove comment - lopburi3//

[lopburi3]

If my memory is correct, I believe I have only spent about 10 weeks total with my daughter since she was born. And all this because of Thai policies. Everytime she sees me for the "first" time, its like I am a complete stranger.

And what "Thai" policy prevented you from travel to Thailand to visit your wife and children? I am sure not aware of any such prohibition. Your post indicates you are having a problem getting a visa to the US (much harder than getting a visa to Thailand).

[drummer]

Hardly comparing apples to apples, are you, lopburi?

The US isn't trying to promote international tourism, and does not rely on tourism for a large part of their GDP. Thailand, in theory, is and in fact, does.

In addition, the longstayers coming from Western countries are almost exclusively better educated than the average Thai, and again, almost exclusively, not only has a higher earning power than the average Thai but also imports money into the economy.

Now - if you were to go to the US with a college education and high test scores, then you would find that your visa would get the red carpet treatment. The US does want educated people and will expedite visas for them. In addition, once you get into the US, then you are generally treated like a citizen.

Incidentally, I am in a somewhat similar situation. I have a wife and 2 year old son. The difficulties of getting work permits in LOS (even while married) have led to me+my son being in the US and my wife in Thailand. We are waiting for her US visa, but she wants to finish school in LOS before coming over, and that will take longer than the visa anyway. We would have the visa already, excect that our plan was for all of us to still be in the LOS at this point.

Unfortunately, work permit problems have led to unfulfilled contracts and related problems. For example, one contract aws never materialized when th WP took too long. A great many teaching jobs - drum lesons - were made impossible due to the difficulty of geting work permits. Even at international schools. I never had a job that did not have work permit glitches. The result was that mot of the time I was not working and spending my savings. I'm married with children in LOS and can't work there. Those problems, combined with the new visa situation have led to us deciding leaving LOS would be the best course of action, even if my wife had to wait a year.

Does that count as a "Thai" policy that are seperating families and reducing the economy in the country?

Edited December 1, 2006 by drummer