Are you a British Citizen ?

[autanic]

Hi Everyone

This is not a troll post, but an open question. I recently stumbled across a piece of legislation that means there are two classes of person in the UK. British Citizens and Non British Citizens.

Both could be born in the UK, but a different times and depending on WHEN not IF you were born in the UK, defines if you are a British Citizen or not.

The link to website below, will give you a series of question to determine if you are indeed a British Citizen. https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen

Born in the UK before 1 January 1983 then you are a British Citizen, born after it depends.

Just a little bit of mindless information which you might want to check.

[colinneil]

[brewsterbudgen]

I was born in Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) in 1960 so I only have a Rhodesian birth certificate. I was registered as British in 1968. I was able to pass on my British citizenship to my child who was born in Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

I knew a family in Ethiopia whose origin was in the then Bombay area of India.

Their ancestor left India for Kenya back in the 1930's as Kenya was then also part of the British Empire.

When India became independent, and was partitioned, the family was told they had to give up their Overseas British passports. After WWII the family relocated to Ethiopia and founded a textile business there.

Since the last known address where they had lived was in Pakistan (after partition) they were given Pakistani passports for their now invalid British Overseas Indian passports

Due to a Socialist government taking over in Ethiopia, they were kicked out of that country by the new Socialist government

Later members of that same family were told they ha no right to enter Britain, as they were Pakistani citizens according to their Pakistani passports.

Now this family used English as their first language, and were Christians, not Muslims.

They were kicked out of Ethiopia, and the new Socialist government seized all their property including their textile factories.

This was in the 1980"s

But the story has a good ending, as a few years later the Socialist government in Ethiopia was ousted.

This family did eventually get it's property back and re-established the business.

The last thing I heard about them they were in England, a new generation, and they were doing roughly 40 million pounds of business yearly exporting African made clothes from Ethiopia and Kenya to the U.K.

All because some British official decided they were Pakistanis years ago in India at the partition and took their then British pass[orts from the family.

Just shows, you never can tell, can you?

Edited July 25, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[JAS21]

My wife has a piece of paper hung on our wall saying that she is a British Citizen ... she should hang in on the rear of the toilet door next to my long service award now ...

Edited July 25, 2016 by JAS21

[i claudius]

I am Welsh,does that count?

[lungbing]

Not since 1283.

[autanic]

I knew a family in Ethiopia whose origin was in the then Bombay area of India.

Their ancestor left India for Kenya back in the 1930's as Kenya was then also part of the British Empire.

When India became independent, and was partitioned, the family was told they had to give up their Overseas British passports. After WWII the family relocated to Ethiopia and founded a textile business there.

Since the last known address where they had lived was in Pakistan (after partition) they were given Pakistani passports for their now invalid British Overseas Indian passports

Due to a Socialist government taking over in Ethiopia, they were kicked out of that country by the new Socialist government

Later members of that same family were told they ha no right to enter Britain, as they were Pakistani citizens according to their Pakistani passports.

Now this family used English as their first language, and were Christians, not Muslims.

They were kicked out of Ethiopia, and the new Socialist government seized all their property including their textile factories.

This was in the 1980"s

But the story has a good ending, as a few years later the Socialist government in Ethiopia was ousted.

This family did eventually get it's property back and re-established the business.

The last thing I heard about them they were in England, a new generation, and they were doing roughly 40 million pounds of business yearly exporting African made clothes from Ethiopia and Kenya to the U.K.

All because some British official decided they were Pakistanis years ago in India at the partition and took their then British pass[orts from the family.

Just shows, you never can tell, can you?

I am really glad I read this, I wasnt going to as seemed a bit long and you know fickle we are on here. But I am glad the family are doing so well now.

I have a friend from Tanzania, who is of Indian Ancestry and this type of prejudice was quite common in the 70s and 80s. His family made a fortune, lost a fortune and make an even bigger amount back.

[JAS21]

Not since 1283.

That is below the belt ...but made me smile ...

[emilymat]

Actually we are British subjects (to the crown). We have no written constitution that defines us as British citizens.

[elliss]

I am Welsh,does that count?

You are one of the few native nationals of the UK , Celts .

English are a hybrid , of the countries who invaded and conquered little england

Romans , Vikings , etc . 555, and still they are being invaded .

Was Jerusalem builded here ? It soon will be .

[nong38]

I knew a family in Ethiopia whose origin was in the then Bombay area of India.

Their ancestor left India for Kenya back in the 1930's as Kenya was then also part of the British Empire.

When India became independent, and was partitioned, the family was told they had to give up their Overseas British passports. After WWII the family relocated to Ethiopia and founded a textile business there.

Since the last known address where they had lived was in Pakistan (after partition) they were given Pakistani passports for their now invalid British Overseas Indian passports

Due to a Socialist government taking over in Ethiopia, they were kicked out of that country by the new Socialist government

Later members of that same family were told they ha no right to enter Britain, as they were Pakistani citizens according to their Pakistani passports.

Now this family used English as their first language, and were Christians, not Muslims.

They were kicked out of Ethiopia, and the new Socialist government seized all their property including their textile factories.

This was in the 1980"s

But the story has a good ending, as a few years later the Socialist government in Ethiopia was ousted.

This family did eventually get it's property back and re-established the business.

The last thing I heard about them they were in England, a new generation, and they were doing roughly 40 million pounds of business yearly exporting African made clothes from Ethiopia and Kenya to the U.K.

All because some British official decided they were Pakistanis years ago in India at the partition and took their then British pass[orts from the family.

Just shows, you never can tell, can you?

Yes excellent stuff and all turned out right in the end!

[nong38]

Not since 1283.

Up the Forest! I remember Ronnie Rees!

[Kwasaki]

No l'm English.

[billd766]

No l'm English.

But my tribe is Dorset and Wessex as it was under King Arthur Pendragon.

[Kwasaki]

No l'm English.

But my tribe is Dorset and Wessex as it was under King Arthur Pendragon.

Your a Saxon.

[elliss]

No l'm English.

Tough <deleted> , old boy ,

live with it , and enjoy . 555

[elliss]

But my tribe is Dorset and Wessex as it was under King Arthur Pendragon.

Your a Saxon.

OMG , another bloody immigrant . OM Buddah

[billd766]

No l'm English.

But my tribe is Dorset and Wessex as it was under King Arthur Pendragon.

Your a Saxon.

No. I am a man of Wessex.

Them Saxons were just in from Saxony and the future land of Germany but we made sure they got the right visa (none) and kicked them out to East Anglia and on up to Yorkshire.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jul/28/yorkshire-is-most-anglo-saxon-region-in-the-uk-dna-analysis-suggests

Yorkshire is most Anglo-Saxon region in the UK, DNA analysis suggests

[blackcab]

Actually we are British subjects (to the crown). We have no written constitution that defines us as British citizens.

Fortunately, though, we do have the British Nationality Act 1981.

[Freakin Musashi]

Subject of the USA.

[Richard W]

What, if anything is the question?

The OP has no idea of the complexity of the situation. In the UK we also have, as a dying category, mere holders of the right of abode, who are not actually British citizens, but must be commonwealth citizens. There are actually 6 categories of British national, mostly consequences of the dissolution of the British Empire. When it comes to passing on citizenship to one's children born abroad, there are actually 3 grades of citizen, though only a 2-fold division is relevant for passing it on automatically rather than purchasing it.

Finally, if he looks at the series of questions, he'll find that some of the questions contain terms that require questionnaires of their own. For example, whether a child born in the UK to EEA citizens is British typically depends on their employment history. A spell of unemployment can make it a very difficult question to answer.

[Kwasaki]

No l'm English.

Tough <deleted> , old boy ,

live with it , and enjoy . 555

Subject of the USA.

Now that is tough.

[Kwasaki]

What, if anything is the question?

The OP has no idea of the complexity of the situation. In the UK we also have, as a dying category, mere holders of the right of abode, who are not actually British citizens, but must be commonwealth citizens. There are actually 6 categories of British national, mostly consequences of the dissolution of the British Empire. When it comes to passing on citizenship to one's children born abroad, there are actually 3 grades of citizen, though only a 2-fold division is relevant for passing it on automatically rather than purchasing it.

Finally, if he looks at the series of questions, he'll find that some of the questions contain terms that require questionnaires of their own. For example, whether a child born in the UK to EEA citizens is British typically depends on their employment history. A spell of unemployment can make it a very difficult question to answer.

Question is are you a British citizen.

I like the " you might be British " or " your probably not British " replies.

They can't say you are a " mixed race mongrel ".

[ThaiPauly]

On 7/25/2016 at 0:33 PM, i claudius said:

I am Welsh,does that count?

Never mind...we all have our crosses to bear ....lol

[Witblitz]

On 27/07/2016 at 10:18 PM, elliss said:

You are one of the few native nationals of the UK , Celts .

English are a hybrid , of the countries who invaded and conquered little england

Romans , Vikings , etc . 555, and still they are being invaded .

Was Jerusalem builded here ? It soon will be .

The celts reputably came from an area which is now Germany, so even the celts are not native nationals per se, and there is no evidence the orginal welsh were celts either 

[autanic]

On 30 July 2016 at 3:28 AM, Richard W said:

What, if anything is the question?

The OP has no idea of the complexity of the situation. In the UK we also have, as a dying category, mere holders of the right of abode, who are not actually British citizens, but must be commonwealth citizens. There are actually 6 categories of British national, mostly consequences of the dissolution of the British Empire. When it comes to passing on citizenship to one's children born abroad, there are actually 3 grades of citizen, though only a 2-fold division is relevant for passing it on automatically rather than purchasing it.

Finally, if he looks at the series of questions, he'll find that some of the questions contain terms that require questionnaires of their own. For example, whether a child born in the UK to EEA citizens is British typically depends on their employment history. A spell of unemployment can make it a very difficult question to answer.

 

I think you just answered your question and mine at the same time.

I think for the non-lawyers here, I would define a British Citizen and the right to abode in the UK,  hold a British Passport (yes I know it is technically a EU passport with a Birtish Badge in it) .

 

My point is this as  British Citizen, if I married a Thai Citizen ans my child even though they were born in the UK, does not have the automatic right to be a UK citizen, simply becuse I am a man.  Yet if  a Female British Citizen marries and Thai Man Citizen and the child is born in the UK, then that child is automaticallt a British Citizen.

 

 

[Richard W]

1 hour ago, autanic said:

My point is this as  British Citizen, if I married a Thai Citizen ans my child even though they were born in the UK, does not have the automatic right to be a UK citizen, simply becuse I am a man.  Yet if  a Female British Citizen marries and Thai Man Citizen and the child is born in the UK, then that child is automaticallt a British Citizen.

Wrong.  Any child born in the UK to the the wife of a British citizen is automatically a British citizen.

 

Possibly you are thinking of the rule that the child of a married woman may claim British citizenship through the woman's husband, not through its father (as such).  The child of an unmarried woman may claim British citizenship through its biological father, except where the sperm were donated for properly organised artificial insemination and the like.

[autanic]

19 hours ago, Richard W said:

Wrong.  Any child born in the UK to the the wife of a British citizen is automatically a British citizen.

 

Possibly you are thinking of the rule that the child of a married woman may claim British citizenship through the woman's husband, not through its father (as such).  The child of an unmarried woman may claim British citizenship through its biological father, except where the sperm were donated for properly organised artificial insemination and the like.

 

Incorrect, since 1982 must be born of a female British Citizen to AUTOMATICALLY become a British Citizen, you can still become a British Citizen upon Application if you are born to the Wife of a British Citizen.

 

I suggest you read the the Government Documentation and the links provide in my OP, this is quite clear on the matter.

[Richard W]

On 18/08/2016 at 5:14 PM, autanic said:

I suggest you read the the Government Documentation and the links provide in my OP, this is quite clear on the matter.

I suppose the site is more reliable than a UKVI helpline, but it has at least one major fault - it doesn't explain what is meant by 'father'.  If it means the person who should be recorded on one's birth certificate, then note the exception reads:

Quote

You won’t be a British citizen through your father if all the following apply:

• you were born before 1 July 2006
• your parents weren’t married when you were born and haven’t married since
• the country your father considered his permanent home when you were born distinguished between children of married and unmarried parents - check with the country if you’re not sure

Thus births on and after 1st July 2006 are not covered by this exception.

 

However, if you read the current and pre-2006 forms form of the British Nationality Act 1981 , you will find that it has its own definition of 'father' -  Section 50(9A)  and the old Section 50(9).  Under those definitions, someone satisfying the three conditions above has no father.  You will also find that since 2006 the husband of the mother (at the time of birth) is incontrovertibly the father for the purposes of the BNA 1981 and the web page isn't aware of that.

 

Now, before the change in 2006, if a person's biological parents were domiciled in the UK and married, their children could derive British citizenship from the father if he was British.  The web page doesn't address the complications resulting from other domiciles - sometimes the marriage has no effect, and country's laws change over time.  For children born on 1st July 2006 and later, subsequent marriage of the parents has no effect.