The Quest to Understand the Biology of Weight Loss

[tropo]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

Thanks for your interest and help.  It was 13 lbs in 2 weeks and a 1 lb a week over the next 7 weeks.  20 lbs in all.  The last 4 weeks have brought no change to my body.  I mis spoke.  I meant to use the word plateau not set point.  I have had all the blood test and do supplement with real testosterone by prescription while i am working out.  I do have stomach fat and a little bit of manboob.  I am 60 years old sort of goes with the territory.   I am at a 30 BMI and at about a 29% body fat.  I am 5'10" was 218 lbs and now 198 lbs.  I would like to be at 174 lbs or so.  I don't know much about fat loss or muscle gain.  The only thing I can remember reading was that muscle gain is minor in terms of pounds and that was for much younger professional athletes.  I think I read 12 lbs is probably about it in a year for a 20ish or so athlete.  I have little reason to believe I will get more than a few pounds of muscle out of all this work.  My waist has reduced itself a belt notch.  I am just now starting to skip breakfast to get a small fast.  I am not reducing calories further as that will cause more problems later with the set point.  I believe in the set point and I think the National Institute of Health proved it to my satisfaction.  That was in 2013 so it will take awhile to get acceptance.  I do believe you are completely correct and I am trying the fasting program to improve sugar metabolism.  Any other good ideas?    I always hated breakfast and now I have an excuse to ditch it.  I have not been up to the physical condition of HIT.   My program ends in 60 days or so and I am feeling BLAH about the progress.  I have exercised off/on my whole life.  I came to Thailand specifically to get this personal trainer I use now as the first few weeks are always unbelieveable.

How long have you been taking a testosterone supplement? The muscle building effects can be quite dramatic if the testosterone was really low before starting. With the muscle you can get quite a bit of water too.

 

If you have some manboob, that indicates you're estrogen is probably too high. Your supplemental testosterone could be exacerbating that as testosterone is converted to estrogen. I would suggest having it tested and if it's too high take drugs to lower it.

 

If your condition doesn't allow you to try high intensity exercise, then you're better off doing what you do and concentrate on reducing calories. Even if you're not always dropping weight, at least you're improving your health. Do you use different cardio exercises? It could help to change them around.

 

Stay away from food as long as you can after waking (I'm also not into food when I wake up - no point forcing it down)... which could dramatically and easily cut down on your daily consumption of food.

 

If you have a personal trainer who you trust, why are you asking us? What does he have to say about your 1 month plateau?

[moe666]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 2:12 AM, dontoearth said:

Thanks for that article.  I haven't seen much on the set point research.  I am hoping for a lot more than just write everyone off when they reach the BMI of 30.  I think they will discover aging increases the resistance of the set point in obesity.    I have been struggling for the first time to take off weight despite hitting the gym and watching every morsel I eat.  I just turned 60 and I have never encountered such a struggle! Most exercise research is done on young athletes.  This is not helpful to the general public. I have noticed the same in most men in there late 40's,50's.  They just can't get back into their proper weight after the holidays and every year it gets a little worse.  So now we know the problem and hopefully solutions are on the way.

3 months ao my blood sugar was 145 just got the new test result back today down to 118 still a bit to high. I have lost around 20lbs hitting the weight room hard every other day and can see the difference. Diet is basicly the keto diet cut out sugar with a cheat day once a week, vegetables and protien for meals, a little bit o potatoes, no bread, and very little rice. I feel great slimming down and getting stronger, I am70years old, mainly I have cut out my daily lemon tea way to much sugar

[moe666]

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Thanks for your interest and help.  It was 13 lbs in 2 weeks and a 1 lb a week over the next 7 weeks.  20 lbs in all.  The last 4 weeks have brought no change to my body.  I mis spoke.  I meant to use the word plateau not set point.  I have had all the blood test and do supplement with real testosterone by prescription while i am working out.  I do have stomach fat and a little bit of manboob.  I am 60 years old sort of goes with the territory.   I am at a 30 BMI and at about a 29% body fat.  I am 5'10" was 218 lbs and now 198 lbs.  I would like to be at 174 lbs or so.  I don't know much about fat loss or muscle gain.  The only thing I can remember reading was that muscle gain is minor in terms of pounds and that was for much younger professional athletes.  I think I read 12 lbs is probably about it in a year for a 20ish or so athlete.  I have little reason to believe I will get more than a few pounds of muscle out of all this work.  My waist has reduced itself a belt notch.  I am just now starting to skip breakfast to get a small fast.  I am not reducing calories further as that will cause more problems later with the set point.  I believe in the set point and I think the National Institute of Health proved it to my satisfaction.  That was in 2013 so it will take awhile to get acceptance.  I do believe you are completely correct and I am trying the fasting program to improve sugar metabolism.  Any other good ideas?    I always hated breakfast and now I have an excuse to ditch it.  I have not been up to the physical condition of HIT.   My program ends in 60 days or so and I am feeling BLAH about the progress.  I have exercised off/on my whole life.  I came to Thailand specifically to get this personal trainer I use now as the first few weeks are always unbelieveable.

get your blood checked and see where your estrogen levels are also your testosterone, and dht all three work together, you need some estrogen but it isn't much, your testosterone should be at the 30 year old level, dht should be reduced as well.Zinc is a first start to reduce testosterone conversion to estrogen, 50 ml should be enough but no more than 100mg. do your own research on all of this availiable on line. Also what is your protien intake level the research says igram per body lb. you want to weight 174 then 174 gram of protien

[dontoearth]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

How long have you been taking a testosterone supplement? The muscle building effects can be quite dramatic if the testosterone was really low before starting. With the muscle you can get quite a bit of water too.

 

If you have some manboob, that indicates you're estrogen is probably too high. Your supplemental testosterone could be exacerbating that as testosterone is converted to estrogen. I would suggest having it tested and if it's too high take drugs to lower it.

 

If your condition doesn't allow you to try high intensity exercise, then you're better off doing what you do and concentrate on reducing calories. Even if you're not always dropping weight, at least you're improving your health. Do you use different cardio exercises? It could help to change them around.

 

Stay away from food as long as you can after waking (I'm also not into food when I wake up - no point forcing it down)... which could dramatically and easily cut down on your daily consumption of food.

 

If you have a personal trainer who you trust, why are you asking us? What does he have to say about your 1 month plateau?

Unfortunately, the manboobs and tummy are from Dad and Grandpa!  When I reach optium weight I will try to figure out if there are any options to reduce them.   My testosterone gel is from my doc so I have had all the measurements for DHT and estrogen.   I take it when I go  on a good weight lifting regimine.  I don't think take it otherwise.  So I have been using it this trip to Thailand about 90 days.

 Definitely going to start skipping breakfast.  Easy for me too!  I always hated breakfast and fell for all that crapola about the most important meal of the day.    I am a baby boomer. We had more old wives tales foisted on us than you can imagine regarding diet and exercise.  None of them good.  None of them true! 

I have never met a trainer that knew much about nutrition.  They are in a different world.  His muscle phsysique could burn 3 or 4 times the amount of food I could.  I had a trainer in Chicago who liked to eat a pound of bacon at breakfast so what kind of advice would he have given you?   He is a good trainer and keeps insisting we will break the plateau and we will.

Thanks for the help.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

Unfortunately, the manboobs and tummy are from Dad and Grandpa!  When I reach optium weight I will try to figure out if there are any options to reduce them.   My testosterone gel is from my doc so I have had all the measurements for DHT and estrogen.   I take it when I go  on a good weight lifting regimine.  I don't think take it otherwise.  So I have been using it this trip to Thailand about 90 days.

 Definitely going to start skipping breakfast.  Easy for me too!  I always hated breakfast and fell for all that crapola about the most important meal of the day.    I am a baby boomer. We had more old wives tales foisted on us than you can imagine regarding diet and exercise.  None of them good.  None of them true! 

I have never met a trainer that knew much about nutrition.  They are in a different world.  His muscle phsysique could burn 3 or 4 times the amount of food I could.  I had a trainer in Chicago who liked to eat a pound of bacon at breakfast so what kind of advice would he have given you?   He is a good trainer and keeps insisting we will break the plateau and we will.

Thanks for the help.

Here's another way to look at your plateau. You lost 20 lbs in 3 months, so that's an average of about 6.5 pound per month. You weren't a heavy weight to start with at 218 lbs, and you lost nearly 10% of your body weight in 2 months. Don't make too much of body weight targets until you have an accurate measurement of your body fat percentage. 174 lbs could be too light for you. Why did you settle on that target? I'd be super skinny at that weight - people wouldn't recognise me.

 

You can't do it here, but when you go back to the US you should get an accurate measurement. Perhaps a DEXA body composition scan.

 

 

 

[robblok]

15 hours ago, dontoearth said:

I think there is a lot more going on than just calories and metabolism.   It would be difficult to explain it all with just a 'lifestyle choice.'  It is just impossible to write-off the 66% of the population in the US that is obese as making a 'lifestyle choice.'   Visiting a hospital or medical center and realizing the doctors and nurses are often obese is a real eye opener.  Do you think those people with all those years of sacrifice for medical degrees are secretly slothful?  lazy?  slow?  Do they lack discipline and willpower?  Something else is clearly at work here and we don't understand it.  I agree there are a few lazy, slothful, slow people who with little discipline and will power really don't care if they are fat.  I just don't see it explaining the huge epidemic we face.  I been mulling all this over for a long time.  The endless disagreements on diet and exercise just don't help.   I read Jason Fong's book:  The Obesity Code: Unlocking the secrets of weight loss.  He sees obesity as a hormone problem with insulin and blood sugar.  He believes almost all basic diet advice is worthless because the dieter can't break thru the set point of weight or make the weight loss stick without addressing the insulin problem.  I think he is on the right track.

I never said lazy.. i think its more eating too much.If you look at the caloric intake of people over the years it has only grown. Why food is everywhere and easy to get and caloric rich. I think the lifestyle choices I am talking about are far more in the food choices. You cant out-train a bad diet I was a perfect example of that. I have always exercised.. but i got fat more then 5 years ago.. why eating to much drinking too much. I was still exercising.. but you cant just out exercise a really bad diet. So i changed lost it got lean. 

[robblok]

14 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Thanks for your interest and help.  It was 13 lbs in 2 weeks and a 1 lb a week over the next 7 weeks.  20 lbs in all.  The last 4 weeks have brought no change to my body.  I mis spoke.  I meant to use the word plateau not set point.  I have had all the blood test and do supplement with real testosterone by prescription while i am working out.  I do have stomach fat and a little bit of manboob.  I am 60 years old sort of goes with the territory.   I am at a 30 BMI and at about a 29% body fat.  I am 5'10" was 218 lbs and now 198 lbs.  I would like to be at 174 lbs or so.  I don't know much about fat loss or muscle gain.  The only thing I can remember reading was that muscle gain is minor in terms of pounds and that was for much younger professional athletes.  I think I read 12 lbs is probably about it in a year for a 20ish or so athlete.  I have little reason to believe I will get more than a few pounds of muscle out of all this work.  My waist has reduced itself a belt notch.  I am just now starting to skip breakfast to get a small fast.  I am not reducing calories further as that will cause more problems later with the set point.  I believe in the set point and I think the National Institute of Health proved it to my satisfaction.  That was in 2013 so it will take awhile to get acceptance.  I do believe you are completely correct and I am trying the fasting program to improve sugar metabolism.  Any other good ideas?    I always hated breakfast and now I have an excuse to ditch it.  I have not been up to the physical condition of HIT.   My program ends in 60 days or so and I am feeling BLAH about the progress.  I have exercised off/on my whole life.  I came to Thailand specifically to get this personal trainer I use now as the first few weeks are always unbelieveable.

Hi seems like you are doing all the right things and you are getting quite some results 33 lbs in 9 weeks.. that is quite a lot. You might have expected more but overall this is a lot. I lost 25 kg 50+ lbs but it took me a year !!!!  

 

Remember it took a long time to get the fat it won't come off as fast. During my weight loss period i had just like you platteau's and went to extremes to break them. But once they were broken the weight-loss continued. Don't give up your doing the right things. Sometimes a platteau just happens and you just have to be patient. 

Weight loss is not linear. 

 

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/index.php  (great site and good articles outside of the forum loads of it all supported by real research)

 

There is plenty of research that shows set points can be re set too. It just takes time and effort. Your body only worked to that set point because you were feeding it too much and moving around not enough. At some point your body has to accept a new setpoint but it still means you will have to watch your food. I am still watching what I eat and exercising (for health not weight loss  though now I want to lose a bit more and stepped up my game). 

 

You should not reduce calories too much its even to sometimes have a day you eat a lot of carbs and calories (not too much that it negates all your losses) But that way you fill up your glycogen stores and get some hormones like leptine working for you again. Its called carb / caloric cycling. Today is one of those days for me eating more carbs and more proteins because I am going to do a hard workout. You can fool your body this way and help your diet. It took some time for me to accept that eating more at times could help. 

 

I am now going down slowly because there is not a lot of fat to burn and I am patient. My main measure of measurement is a tape measure not so much the scales as i take supplements like creatine that mess up the weight and sometimes other stuff that also makes me hold water. So weight is a bit of a false measurement. However I remember when i was losing the weight i was focused on it and hated it when i did not lose any weight. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I never said lazy.. i think its more eating too much.If you look at the caloric intake of people over the years it has only grown. Why food is everywhere and easy to get and caloric rich. I think the lifestyle choices I am talking about are far more in the food choices. You cant out-train a bad diet I was a perfect example of that. I have always exercised.. but i got fat more then 5 years ago.. why eating to much drinking too much. I was still exercising.. but you cant just out exercise a really bad diet. So i changed lost it got lean. 

I think you can out-exercise a bad diet, but of course that depends on how much you're eating. 

 

I've out-exercised lousy diets before, but the volume of lousy food wasn't all that large.

 

I'm rather fond of 1000 calorie exercise sessions as you know.

 

Which leads us to another reason to exercise a lot - you can be a bit less regimented in your eating if you wish. Take those treats you miss and not suffer the consequences thereof. As I said on a post on another thread last week, I sometimes take time off training (5 days or so) and eat like a pig. He didn't believe me - thought I was full of sh** LOL.

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, tropo said:

I think you can out-exercise a bad diet, but of course that depends on how much you're eating. 

 

I've out-exercised lousy diets before, but the volume of lousy food wasn't all that large.

 

I'm rather fond of 1000 calorie exercise sessions as you know.

 

Which leads us to another reason to exercise a lot - you can be a bit less regimented in your eating if you wish. Take those treats you miss and not suffer the consequences thereof. As I said on a post on another thread last week, I sometimes take time off training (5 days or so) and eat like a pig. He didn't believe me - thought I was full of sh** LOL.

 

 

 

Thing is your eating bad 7 days a week.. not exercising 7 days a week.. and chocolate oh boy.... 

 

Actually its good to sometimes eat more (mainly if your busy losing weight). This gives the body a boost and helps the leptin hormone to get to normal levels. Though doing it too much will ruin your weight loss progress. 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Hi seems like you are doing all the right things and you are getting quite some results 33 lbs in 9 weeks.. that is quite a lot. You might have expected more but overall this is a lot. I lost 25 kg 50+ lbs but it took me a year !!!!  

 

 

I had no idea you lost that much weight Rob. I've only ever seen you in great, lean condition. By comparison my own fat loss programs have merely been fine tuning a few kilograms here or there, although I'm now 25 kg down from my peak in 2009. The loss was mainly muscle though as I was about 16% body fat at that point (DEXA, hydrostatic weighing). Muscle is very easy to lose - you can lose it in your sleep. 

 

I wouldn't call losing a pound a week for a year slow progress.  

[mcfish]

Keep your carbs under 20g per day and your body will go into ketosis switching to using fat and not carbs as the energy sources. I lost 30 kilos 10 years ago with this and still following it today

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[tropo]

25 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Keep your carbs under 20g per day and your body will go into ketosis switching to using and not carbs as the energy sources. I lost 30 kilos 10 years ago with this and still following it today

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

I understand that works well, and kudos for pulling it off, but I would consider lowering carbs to that level too much of a sacrifice. I'd be dreaming about carbs. That's the level that many diabetics must lower their carb consumption to in order to control their blood sugar.

Edited August 23, 2016 by tropo

[mcfish]

I understand that works well, and kudos for pulling it off, but I would consider lowering carbs to that level too much of a sacrifice. I'd be dreaming about carbs. That's the level that many diabetics much lower their carb consumption to in order to control their blood sugar.

Biggest challenge was beer. I leveled off at 40g of carbs eventually to stop losing and now maintaining. That allows me 13 bottles of sang mig light at 3g of carbs a bottle [emoji7]

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, tropo said:

I had no idea you lost that much weight Rob. I've only ever seen you in great, lean condition. By comparison my own fat loss programs have merely been fine tuning a few kilograms here or there, although I'm now 25 kg down from my peak in 2009. The loss was mainly muscle though as I was about 16% body fat at that point (DEXA, hydrostatic weighing). Muscle is very easy to lose - you can lose it in your sleep. 

 

I wouldn't call losing a pound a week for a year slow progress.  

 

Les, but it was not a pound a week.. some weeks it was more (especially at the start) and there were weeks there was no change. Those platteau's are the thing that drive people crazy. That is what donotoearth is talking about. Its real frustrating and it takes effort to break through.

[tropo]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

  but it was not a pound a week.. some weeks it was more (especially at the start) and there were weeks there was no change. Those platteau's are the thing that drive people crazy. That is what donotoearth is talking about. Its real frustrating and it takes effort to break through.

What about changing the type of exercises (cardio) you're doing - shocking the body so to speak. 

 

The OP is a lot closer to his goal of 174 lbs now, so the percentages will be changing too. Now he has to concern himself more with what he is losing (fat or muscle) as he closes in on his goal.

 

Perhaps he needs to check his testosterone levels again. The gel is usually not very effective and he may be low in testosterone and high in estrogen.

Edited August 23, 2016 by tropo

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, tropo said:

What about changing the type of exercises (cardio) you're doing - shocking the body so to speak. 

Yes HIIT helps and eating more sometimes too.. and other times you just have to be patient. I have used fatburners too to get through them but they are troublesome. 

 

Now that I don't have that much to lose I am far more relaxed about my weight loss. I just let it have its time because I know im doing everything right. I am experimenting a bit more with carb / caloric cycling. But its not often that i really need to lose weight (now a bit because I want too) In general i am staying lean enough and my exercise is keeping the fat off.

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes HIIT helps and eating more sometimes too.. and other times you just have to be patient. I have used fatburners too to get through them but they are troublesome. 

 

Now that I don't have that much to lose I am far more relaxed about my weight loss. I just let it have its time because I know im doing everything right. I am experimenting a bit more with carb / caloric cycling. But its not often that i really need to lose weight (now a bit because I want too) In general i am staying lean enough and my exercise is keeping the fat off.

Time to get on the rower - catch you later.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

Time to get on the rower - catch you later.

 

I am waiting for the caffeine to kick in to start my training and rowing 

[dontoearth]

On 8/23/2016 at 0:27 AM, tropo said:

Here's another way to look at your plateau. You lost 20 lbs in 3 months, so that's an average of about 6.5 pound per month. You weren't a heavy weight to start with at 218 lbs, and you lost nearly 10% of your body weight in 2 months. Don't make too much of body weight targets until you have an accurate measurement of your body fat percentage. 174 lbs could be too light for you. Why did you settle on that target? I'd be super skinny at that weight - people wouldn't recognise me.

 

You can't do it here, but when you go back to the US you should get an accurate measurement. Perhaps a DEXA body composition scan.

 

 

 

Thanks.  That was a good idea.  My club had a scale that did a body composition analysis so I did get that done yesterday.  I went from BMI of 31 Obese to a BMI of 28.4 Overweight.  The BMI is far from perfect but is a good jumping off point for me and for many.  I do have a Bodyfat scale in Chicago and was at 29.5% and now I am at 27.3%.  My muscle mass is about 2 kilos or 4 lbs under where it should be.  I don't have any way to estimate how much muscle I have added.  I wish I had thought of getting these measurements earlier.  This is why message boards like this are so good for really, getting those extra little tips you need.  Things you wouldn't think of on your own!  

 

I would like to be at a BMI of 24.9 which would be 174 lbs for me.  I would like to be at a bodyfat of 25% or lower.  I selected my goals based on family history.

 

Not only did both grandpa's and dad have moobs and guts!  They all died of heart disease.  My father had 4 massive episodes and the works.  He had a stint.  He had a pace maker.  He had a bypass.  And then experimental surgery before he died.   You can't eliminate risk 100%.  You do inherit!  However, I can eliminate 90% of my risk and live with the other 10%.  My goal is to keep myself as thin and muscular as possible.  I could see moving to as little as 155 lbs if possible.  I don't think it is possible.  However, I was that weight 40 years ago and I read all those message boards where people have returned to their high school or college graduation weight.  I hope, I wish. Perhaps.

 

I am doing the weight training because it works for me.  I do the cardio because I think I should.  I been searching out diet tips and plans like mad because it seems most are a dead end.  

 

I did the testosterone after getting a complete and total blood analysis to find the present condition of my body.  Nothing like giving up 13 vials of blood to help you get a good afternoon nap.   ROFL!    I am in good shape for a 60 year old. Every measurement you can imagine from those vials and a urine test.  

 

 Metabolic syndrome the obesity, the high blood pressure, the high bad cholesterol, the low good cholesterol, large waist line in proportion to the shoulders, and  type II diabetes (which I don't have), is probably the common physical condition for men in my age group.  Sad!  I didn't say common for being sick.  I mean common because the vast majority of men are indeed suffering from this condition.  Poor health is the norm for men in the US starting in the late 40's.  Almost certain by mid 60's.  I have every intention of reversing every one of these conditions that I have.  

 

So I am fighting several conditions of metabolic syndrome and trying to focus on the weight.   That is the reason I found this forum.  I been learning a lot!  Thanks.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by dontoearth

[robblok]

@dontoearth

 

Your eating habits are one of the most important things (and hardest) to fix but once you got those under control together with the training your doing your results will happen. It will just take time.  Now I can say that but when I was on my weight loss period it could not happen fast enough. Now that I am at a state that i am happy with i am just finetuning thins and going for goals that are hard to reach. (else I get bored)

 

I really understand the mindset even now I have to be careful not to go all out right away (then later I can't add stuff if I hit a plateau) What I have found for myself is that its easier to make small changes and go a bit more in the right direction all the time then going all the way at once. I was more likely to stop if i went overboard then when i got to the same station by making small changes. 

 

But I can remember how much I hated it when i hit a plateau and how hard it was to break them. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, dontoearth said:

Thanks.  That was a good idea.  My club had a scale that did a body composition analysis so I did get that done yesterday.  I went from BMI of 31 Obese to a BMI of 28.4 Overweight.  The BMI is far from perfect but is a good jumping off point for me and for many.  I do have a Bodyfat scale in Chicago and was at 29.5% and now I am at 27.3%.  My muscle mass is about 2 kilos or 4 lbs under where it should be.  I don't have any way to estimate how much muscle I have added.  I wish I had thought of getting these measurements earlier.  This is why message boards like this are so good for really, getting those extra little tips you need.  Things you wouldn't think of on your own!  

 

I would like to be at a BMI of 24.9 which would be 174 lbs for me.  I would like to be at a bodyfat of 25% or lower.  I selected my goals based on family history.

 

Not only did both grandpa's and dad have moobs and guts!  They all died of heart disease.  My father had 4 massive episodes and the works.  He had a stint.  He had a pace maker.  He had a bypass.  And then experimental surgery before he died.   You can't eliminate risk 100%.  You do inherit!  However, I can eliminate 90% of my risk and live with the other 10%.  My goal is to keep myself as thin and muscular as possible.  I could see moving to as little as 155 lbs if possible.  I don't think it is possible.  However, I was that weight 40 years ago and I read all those message boards where people have returned to their high school or college graduation weight.  I hope, I wish. Perhaps.

 

I am doing the weight training because it works for me.  I do the cardio because I think I should.  I been searching out diet tips and plans like mad because it seems most are a dead end.  

 

I did the testosterone after getting a complete and total blood analysis to find the present condition of my body.  Nothing like giving up 13 vials of blood to help you get a good afternoon nap.   ROFL!    I am in good shape for a 60 year old. Every measurement you can imagine from those vials and a urine test.  

 

 Metabolic syndrome the obesity, the high blood pressure, the high bad cholesterol, the low good cholesterol, large waist line in proportion to the shoulders, and  type II diabetes (which I don't have), is probably the common physical condition for men in my age group.  Sad!  I didn't say common for being sick.  I mean common because the vast majority of men are indeed suffering from this condition.  Poor health is the norm for men in the US starting in the late 40's.  Almost certain by mid 60's.  I have every intention of reversing every one of these conditions that I have.  

 

So I am fighting several conditions of metabolic syndrome and trying to focus on the weight.   That is the reason I found this forum.  I been learning a lot!  Thanks.

 

 

They used to have one of those bio-electric body composition analysers at the California Wow gym in Pattaya. The results I got were ridiculous. I got bodyfat percentages at least 10% higher than true. You can find good ones though. Back in 2010 I used one at a university that was within 1% of my result from a hydrostatic weighing AND a DEXA scan. That's impressive for a device you just stand on and hold some electrodes (handles).

 

BMI is really worthless, at least for me. On the BMI index scale for my height and weight I'm on the cusp of overweight and obese at 29 (overweight) - 30 (obese), yet my true fat percentage is around 10%. What's the point of using a scale that can't distinguish muscle from fat.

Edited August 24, 2016 by tropo

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

They used to have one of those bio-electric body composition analysers at the California Wow gym in Pattaya. The results I got were ridiculous. I got bodyfat percentages at least 10% higher than true.

 

BMI is really worthless, at least for me. On the BMI index scale for my height and weight I'm on the cusp of overweight and obese at 29 (overweight) - 30 (obese), yet my true fat percentage is around 10%. What's the point of using a scale that can't distinguish muscle from fat.

They work ok for an average person.  If you are athletic or muscular you won't get a good reading.  I do see the latest greatest ones have athlete mode if someone remembers to set that for you.  Same for BMI it will work for an average person.  Not for an athlete or muscular individual or short or tall.  And if you use to scale to track your own progress it will work fine.  If I am going down in bodyfat...that is my goal even if it did record high to begin with the scale allows me to track directions individually.  So if next time I am at 26% that helps me out.  If an expensive medical test later told me that I was at 16% I would just be extra thrilled.   

 

BTW, my brother is over a 100 lbs overweight and was yelling and complaining at my mom when she forced him to weigh that the scale was off.  To help my brother (I swear not being mean-spirited) I said,"If it is 10 lbs off you are over weight, if it 20lbs off your overweight, if it is 50 lbs off your overweight....If it is a 100 lbs off Mom would weigh zero lbs."  He shut up.

LOL

 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, dontoearth said:

 

BTW, my brother is over a 100 lbs overweight and was yelling and complaining at my mom when she forced him to weigh that the scale was off.  To help my brother (I swear not being mean-spirited) I said,"If it is 10 lbs off you are over weight, if it 20lbs off your overweight, if it is 50 lbs off your overweight....If it is a 100 lbs off Mom would weigh zero lbs."  He shut up.

LOL

 

 

you almost made me fall of my chair laughing. I know its not mean spirited. Now my brother is overweight i make jokes too.. and encourage him to lose a bit of weight. Its funny he always was  a stick. An x-ray was not needed you could switch on a light behind his back and check his bones (bit exaggerated) but he was really skinny. 

 

I was always a bit more firm and bigger and now I am the lean one and he is the overweight one. 

[dontoearth]

@robblok

      Exactly!  My whole point was trying to figure out what I could do to break this weight loss plateau.  I finally decided on intermittent fasting.  I hate breakfast anyway.  I was so glad to find out everything about the most important meal of the day is complete and total bullshit!  I often don't eat until 2 and try to stop by 6 but stopping at 6 is difficult.  The weight loss started again a few days ago and seems to be moving along nicely.  I am hoping to work up the willpower to do a full day fast this weekend.  

      If I hit another plateau I will probably try to do cardio on my off days.  Hopefully, I will be very close to goal before another plateau as I would be clueless after playing this last card.

[tropo]

25 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

@robblok

      Exactly!  My whole point was trying to figure out what I could do to break this weight loss plateau.  I finally decided on intermittent fasting.  I hate breakfast anyway.  I was so glad to find out everything about the most important meal of the day is complete and total bullshit!  I often don't eat until 2 and try to stop by 6 but stopping at 6 is difficult.  The weight loss started again a few days ago and seems to be moving along nicely.  I am hoping to work up the willpower to do a full day fast this weekend.  

      If I hit another plateau I will probably try to do cardio on my off days.  Hopefully, I will be very close to goal before another plateau as I would be clueless after playing this last card.

If you find it hard to stop at 6pm, why not try to start later... that might be the easier of the two.

[dontoearth]

@tropo

     2 pm seems to be my limit right now.   That is directly after I finish all workout and head home from the gym.  I should get more familiar with fasting as I work on it.  I am re-reading The Obesity Code by Jason Fung right now and just hit the food timing chapter in which he discusses the build up of insulin resistance because we are not emptying our stomachs and letting the body shut down.  It is interesting!  I am just now at the discussion of 'snacking' and 6 meals a day diet nonsense.  I am old enough to remember not only no snacks, but remember being punished for trying to snack as a child.  My childhood home had no soda, no chips, no fresh fruit out, no hostess twinkies.  I remember being glad I got a girlfriend in high school cause her mom offered endless snacks.  It seems in the late 70's or early 80's all this snack food was proposed as a good 'healthy' idea.  Not a single piece of research has ever confirmed this.  His break down of what it is doing to us clearly shows it is not.  So, right now I think I can get my food windows to 4 hours.  I will see how long it takes me to get to a day with no food window.

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

@tropo

     2 pm seems to be my limit right now.   That is directly after I finish all workout and head home from the gym.  I should get more familiar with fasting as I work on it.  I am re-reading The Obesity Code by Jason Fung right now and just hit the food timing chapter in which he discusses the build up of insulin resistance because we are not emptying our stomachs and letting the body shut down.  It is interesting!  I am just now at the discussion of 'snacking' and 6 meals a day diet nonsense.  I am old enough to remember not only no snacks, but remember being punished for trying to snack as a child.  My childhood home had no soda, no chips, no fresh fruit out, no hostess twinkies.  I remember being glad I got a girlfriend in high school cause her mom offered endless snacks.  It seems in the late 70's or early 80's all this snack food was proposed as a good 'healthy' idea.  Not a single piece of research has ever confirmed this.  His break down of what it is doing to us clearly shows it is not.  So, right now I think I can get my food windows to 4 hours.  I will see how long it takes me to get to a day with no food window.

 

If you are doing all that cardio and lifting your insulin resistance will improve a lot quite fast. Its is not only diet all that working out helps a lot too. 

[moe666]

The reason for eating say 6 meals is that our body can only absorb about 28g of protien at ingestion. People who need to eat say 190grams of protien have to spread this over the day so more meals

[robblok]

32 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The reason for eating say 6 meals is that our body can only absorb about 28g of protien at ingestion. People who need to eat say 190grams of protien have to spread this over the day so more meals

I believe that information is old and also not really logical given our evolution. But I know it was believed by many bodybuilders for a long time.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

The reason for eating say 6 meals is that our body can only absorb about 28g of protien at ingestion. People who need to eat say 190grams of protien have to spread this over the day so more meals

That's just an old myth that won't die. I usually have 50 - 60 grams of protein after a hard workout, but I'm not using that as proof, just saying. I'm not the only one though...

 

Coincidentally I was watching a few videos on this subject today:

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by tropo