Democrat party to announce standpoint on draft charter on Wednesday

[MZurf]

I would absolutely effin love to get some comments from the junta supporters on the following from Abhisit:

"Among the reasons cited for rejecting the draft, Abhisit pointed out that the people would have much fewer rights in the new charter draft, compared to the previous constitution.

He added that the new charter would fail to end political conflicts that have been haunting the country during the past decade because the people would have little participation in the country's administration.

He said the 250 senators to be appointed by the National Council for Peace and Order would become a new source of political conflict.

He also noted that the draft would also fail to promote the decentralization of administrative power.

Abhisit said the draft would also weaken the anti-corruption mechanisms.

"I can't accept the draft just because if it is rejected, we will encounter the worse.

"On the contrary, I see that if the draft is rejected, the country will have a better opportunity."

[Holy Cinema]

it would be a very big surprise if Democrats vote NO. They have been always on the military side.

Surprise!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe they've woken up and smelled the roses. The Thaitanic is heading towards the iceberg and the Dems want off the bridge.

and the Junta intend to use politicians as fenders!! 55555

[heybruce]

The man has found his balls at long last!

I'm not so sure:

"Abhisit Vejjajiva also called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to give a better draft constitution to the people if the current draft is rejected in the referendum.

He said Prayut should not fear that turmoil would break out if the draft constitution is rejected, assuring the junta chief that if the draft is rejected in the referendum, the Democrat would support the junta chief to go on making a better draft for the people."

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

[MZurf]

The man has found his balls at long last!

I'm not so sure:

"Abhisit Vejjajiva also called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to give a better draft constitution to the people if the current draft is rejected in the referendum.

He said Prayut should not fear that turmoil would break out if the draft constitution is rejected, assuring the junta chief that if the draft is rejected in the referendum, the Democrat would support the junta chief to go on making a better draft for the people."

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

Of course. They all know who would win if they held an election. That's why the "PM" is desperately trying to make sure elections become irrelevant.

[bkkcanuck8]

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

You conveniently left out the parts where he said they should adhere to the roadmap (i.e. call elections in 2017) and use the 2007 constitution as the basis for the new constitution. Adhering to the roadmap leaves no time for drafting a new constitution.

Edited July 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[djjamie]

Gotta love the Right Honourable Ahbisit.

He disagrees with the charter yet works within the law when stating it. He does not instigate violence, incite decent or encourage unrest to persuade the Junta to follow a path that he feels is the right one. In other words he is the opposite of the criminal element from the other side.

I bet we will see from Ahbisit some constructive criticism of the charter while offering some sound solutions and ways forward that will benefit the majority as he has always done in the past.

He is well aware if the majorities wishes are not respected by Jatuporn in the charter blood may be spilt, but he is certainly setting the example of a lawful citizen that has the wishes of the majority at the forefront of every narrative he projects.

He knows the PTP are a spent force after the contempt they held for the majority for so long so he is playing this up to his advantage.

[Holy Cinema]

Jamie, go and get some mouthwash, you need it..

Try reading what Meechai was saying today in the BP, he's the one who's making a lot of divisive comments, and is making idle threats

[heybruce]

Gotta love the Right Honourable Ahbisit.

He disagrees with the charter yet works within the law when stating it. He does not instigate violence, incite decent or encourage unrest to persuade the Junta to follow a path that he feels is the right one. In other words he is the opposite of the criminal element from the other side.

I bet we will see from Ahbisit some constructive criticism of the charter while offering some sound solutions and ways forward that will benefit the majority as he has always done in the past.

He is well aware if the majorities wishes are not respected by Jatuporn in the charter blood may be spilt, but he is certainly setting the example of a lawful citizen that has the wishes of the majority at the forefront of every narrative he projects.

He knows the PTP are a spent force after the contempt they held for the majority for so long so he is playing this up to his advantage.

"He does not instigate violence, incite decent or encourage unrest to persuade the Junta to follow a path that he feels is the right one. In other words he is the opposite of the criminal element from the other side."

I assume you mean he's the opposite of Suthep.

"He knows the PTP are a spent force after the contempt they held for the majority for so long so he is playing this up to his advantage."

Then why are the Democrats and the junta so terrified of elections?

[bkkcanuck8]

I assume you mean he's the opposite of Suthep.

Yes.

[heybruce]

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

You conveniently left out the parts where he said they should adhere to the roadmap (i.e. call elections in 2017) and use the 2007 constitution as the basis for the new constitution. Adhering to the roadmap leaves no time for drafting a new constitution.

Yes, I omitted this part:

" Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It makes no mention of elections. While you think adhering to the roadmap requires 2017 elections, I'm not sure Abhisit and Prayut share your view.

What's the point of elections if the country will remain under the current "interim" charter? Does the interim charter allow elections, give guidance on how they will be held, and define roles and responsibilities for elected officials?

It's possible he is suggesting that if the draft is rejected Prayut should re-instate the 2007 constitution and hold elections and govern using it. If that is what he meant, it is far from clear in the article.

Edited July 27, 2016 by heybruce

[mtls2005]

Wow, a medical first. Someone grew a new backbone.

Stick a fork in this pile of poo.

Time to come up with some massive face-saving excuse(s) why the referendum needs to be postponed.

I do feel sorry for the last remaining Junta-huggers. Not.

[MZurf]

Gotta love the Right Honourable Ahbisit.

He disagrees with the charter yet works within the law when stating it. He does not instigate violence, incite decent or encourage unrest to persuade the Junta to follow a path that he feels is the right one. In other words he is the opposite of the criminal element from the other side.

I bet we will see from Ahbisit some constructive criticism of the charter while offering some sound solutions and ways forward that will benefit the majority as he has always done in the past.

He is well aware if the majorities wishes are not respected by Jatuporn in the charter blood may be spilt, but he is certainly setting the example of a lawful citizen that has the wishes of the majority at the forefront of every narrative he projects.

He knows the PTP are a spent force after the contempt they held for the majority for so long so he is playing this up to his advantage.

Thanks, djjamie. I needed a good laugh!

[bkkcanuck8]

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

You conveniently left out the parts where he said they should adhere to the roadmap (i.e. call elections in 2017) and use the 2007 constitution as the basis for the new constitution. Adhering to the roadmap leaves no time for drafting a new constitution.

Yes, I omitted the part that made no sense. What's the point of elections if the country will remain under the current "interim" charter? Does the interim charter allow elections, give guidance on how they will be held, and define roles and responsibilities for elected officials?

It's possible he is suggesting that if the draft is rejected Prayut should re-instate the 2007 constitution and hold elections and govern using it. If that is what he meant, it is far from clear in the article.

I thought it was actually very clear. At no point in the article did he indicate that the election should be based on the interim charter. General Prayut has mentioned he would just draft his own and then call elections at one point. What Abhisit is clearly calling for is that the 2007 charter should be reinstated as the base of the constitution - which would box the General in since if you take as a base and start deleting stuff - it is quite obvious and hard to hide your intentions. By Abhisiv's nature he tries not to be confrontational (IMHO) [a direct opposite of Suthep] and is obviously trying to leave the General a little face-saving room when re-instituting the 2007 charter -- allowing "anti-corruption" additions etc. Some people consider this a sign of weakness but there is little to be gained at going into a frontal confrontation with an elephant -- if one can provide ways for the elephant to back out of the room. It is easy for me to see the influence of having diplomats in the family....

Edited July 27, 2016 by bkkcanuck8

[MagnumForce]

No mention of Abhisit's comments in that other English-language BKK rag. The source mentioned in post #26 is just as much if not more of a rag. Censored or lazy journalism? Go to Channel News Asia for the details. And let the games begin now for a whopping rejection and another international humiliation of this dictatorship. Or maybe they have a plan in place to cancel the referendum anyway because of some news about to happen very soon........

[heybruce]

It seems he's happy to have the junta in charge indefinitely while it plays constitution games.

You conveniently left out the parts where he said they should adhere to the roadmap (i.e. call elections in 2017) and use the 2007 constitution as the basis for the new constitution. Adhering to the roadmap leaves no time for drafting a new constitution.

Yes, I omitted the part that made no sense. What's the point of elections if the country will remain under the current "interim" charter? Does the interim charter allow elections, give guidance on how they will be held, and define roles and responsibilities for elected officials?

It's possible he is suggesting that if the draft is rejected Prayut should re-instate the 2007 constitution and hold elections and govern using it. If that is what he meant, it is far from clear in the article.

I thought it was actually very clear. At no point in the article did he indicate that the election should be based on the interim charter. General Prayut has mentioned he would just draft his own and then call elections at one point. What Abhisit is clearly calling for is that the 2007 charter should be reinstated as the base of the constitution - which would box the General in since if you take as a base and start deleting stuff - it is quite obvious and hard to hide your intentions. By Abhisiv's nature he tries not to be confrontational (IMHO) [a direct opposite of Suthep] and is obviously trying to leave the General a little face-saving room when re-instituting the 2007 charter -- allowing "anti-corruption" additions etc. Some people consider this a sign of weakness but there is little to be gained at going into a frontal confrontation with an elephant -- if one can provide ways for the elephant to back out of the room. It is easy for me to see the influence of having diplomats in the family....

You read all that in this?:

"Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It doesn't even mention elections. Is it possible you are reading too much into it? Is it also possible that Abhisit and Prayut don't share your view that the roadmap requires elections next year?

[candide]

The BP finally announced it, with some slight differences with the Nation.

In the Nation he "said his announcement was not his personal view but it was the party's stand based on the party's ideologies."

In the BP it's presented as a personal position but aligned with the party's ideology. And arguments related to anti-corruption are more developed in the BP.

[tbthailand]

The party is call Prachathipat which means democracy, democratic or democrat. They choose this name because they want the term to mean the people in whom democracy is vested. Shouldnt be too hard for Ahbisit to denounce the draft charter if he got any guts.

The party has always been based on double-speak. The Democratic Party was formed shortly after the revolution, ... by royalists.

It is no wonder that they never really supported democracy. It was never their intention, ... since the beginning.

[Rayk]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-premier-abhisit-turns-thai-juntas-draft-charter-101809227.html

Ex-premier Abhisit turns on Thai junta's draft charter

[Denim]

The Democrat position.

Basically we do what we are told by our superiors in the military.

However, sometimes we feel it is necessary to pretend we have a mind of our own and make erudite statements suggesting we have our own thoughts and opinions. We only do this in an attempt to preserve the image that we give a hoot about democracy. In reality we are disappointed that we have to maintain this transparent facade and hope that in the future we can once again hold the reigns of government even if it means we have no real power. We are happy to do as we are told provided it doesn't make us look like a bunch of self serving lackeys.

[bkkcanuck8]

You read all that in this?:

"Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It doesn't even mention elections. Is it possible you are reading too much into it? Is it also possible that Abhisit and Prayut don't share your view that the roadmap requires elections next year?

You must be on another planet. General Prayut has said a couple hundred times that with or without the charter passing that the roadmap must be adhered to and elections held by July 2017. You have not heard anything of this roadmap?

[bkkcanuck8]

One of many stories that reference the roadmap that is in place now (I could not find the roadmap itself unfortunately):

["No matter whether the draft constitution passes the referendum or not, the government will hold the election in 2017 according to our roadmap," Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha told reporters.] -- channelnewsasia

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/thailand-to-hold-general/2459126.html

[heybruce]

You read all that in this?:

"Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It doesn't even mention elections. Is it possible you are reading too much into it? Is it also possible that Abhisit and Prayut don't share your view that the roadmap requires elections next year?

You must be on another planet. General Prayut has said a couple hundred times that with or without the charter passing that the roadmap must be adhered to and elections held by July 2017. You have not heard anything of this roadmap?

I've heard many comical things from Prayut and other junta stooges. I judge them by their actions, not their words. I do recall elections promised in 2015, then 2016, now 2017. I put the chances of elections next year at 50-50 at best.

[bkkcanuck8]

You read all that in this?:

"Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It doesn't even mention elections. Is it possible you are reading too much into it? Is it also possible that Abhisit and Prayut don't share your view that the roadmap requires elections next year?

You must be on another planet. General Prayut has said a couple hundred times that with or without the charter passing that the roadmap must be adhered to and elections held by July 2017. You have not heard anything of this roadmap?

I've heard many comical things from Prayut and other junta stooges. I judge them by their actions, not their words. I do recall elections promised in 2015, then 2016, now 2017. I put the chances of elections next year at 50-50 at best.

We were talking about Abhisit and his statement and deflecting the argument by changing the topic of argument to Prayut's trustworthiness (a cup that is empty) is at best a sign of AADD

Abhisit was saying that Prayut should adhere to "his roadmap". You said this sentence does not refer to elections, but the roadmap that he is referring to very clearly does indicate elections must be held in 2017. Changing the roadmap is by definition not adhering to the current roadmap (not old roadmap; not future roadmap; the roadmap) that Abhisit is referring. Basically, you were accusing Abhisit of being vague and that he was pushing for the continuation of the military rule -- which is not what he was stating.

[heybruce]

You read all that in this?:

"Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

It doesn't even mention elections. Is it possible you are reading too much into it? Is it also possible that Abhisit and Prayut don't share your view that the roadmap requires elections next year?

You must be on another planet. General Prayut has said a couple hundred times that with or without the charter passing that the roadmap must be adhered to and elections held by July 2017. You have not heard anything of this roadmap?

I've heard many comical things from Prayut and other junta stooges. I judge them by their actions, not their words. I do recall elections promised in 2015, then 2016, now 2017. I put the chances of elections next year at 50-50 at best.

We were talking about Abhisit and his statement and deflecting the argument by changing the topic of argument to Prayut's trustworthiness (a cup that is empty) is at best a sign of AADD

Abhisit was saying that Prayut should adhere to "his roadmap". You said this sentence does not refer to elections, but the roadmap that he is referring to very clearly does indicate elections must be held in 2017. Changing the roadmap is by definition not adhering to the current roadmap (not old roadmap; not future roadmap; the roadmap) that Abhisit is referring. Basically, you were accusing Abhisit of being vague and that he was pushing for the continuation of the military rule -- which is not what he was stating.

"We were talking about Abhisit and his statement and deflecting the argument by changing the topic of argument to Prayut's trustworthiness (a cup that is empty) is at best a sign of AADD "

Yet your earlier post says nothing about Abhisit and is only about Prayut. AADD problem?

We are discussing the last three paragraphs of http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Democrat-rejects-draft-constitution-30291523.html:

"Abhisit Vejjajiva also called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to give a better draft constitution to the people if the current draft is rejected in the referendum.

He said Prayut should not fear that turmoil would break out if the draft constitution is rejected, assuring the junta chief that if the draft is rejected in the referendum, the Democrat would support the junta chief to go on making a better draft for the people.

Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

I read it as Abhisit assuring Prayut of continued support. I base this interpretation on the use of words such as "assuring" and "support".

You read it as Abhisit pushing for elections next year, even though he doesn't use the word elections. You claim I accused Abhisit of being vague. While I didn't before, if this is how he pushes for elections it certainly strikes me as vague. He doesn't call for elections, he only references the "roadmap", and you yourself admit you can't find the roadmap, and allude to the possibility of past, present and future roadmaps. I don't know if this roadmap exists in print or if it is a vague plan in the Prayut's head. The more you defend Abhisit as being clear, the more vague you make him seem.

Perhaps you should accept that not everyone puts Abhisit on a pedestal.

Edited July 27, 2016 by heybruce

[bkkcanuck8]

We were talking about Abhisit and his statement and deflecting the argument by changing the topic of argument to Prayut's trustworthiness (a cup that is empty) is at best a sign of AADD

Abhisit was saying that Prayut should adhere to "his roadmap". You said this sentence does not refer to elections, but the roadmap that he is referring to very clearly does indicate elections must be held in 2017. Changing the roadmap is by definition not adhering to the current roadmap (not old roadmap; not future roadmap; the roadmap) that Abhisit is referring. Basically, you were accusing Abhisit of being vague and that he was pushing for the continuation of the military rule -- which is not what he was stating.

We are discussing the last three paragraphs of http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Democrat-rejects-draft-constitution-30291523.html:

"Abhisit Vejjajiva also called on Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to give a better draft constitution to the people if the current draft is rejected in the referendum.

He said Prayut should not fear that turmoil would break out if the draft constitution is rejected, assuring the junta chief that if the draft is rejected in the referendum, the Democrat would support the junta chief to go on making a better draft for the people.

Abhisit Prayut should also adhere to his road map even if the draft is rejected and the prime minister should use the 2007 constitution as a model for making a new draft."

I read it as Abhisit assuring Prayut of continued support. I base this interpretation on the use of words such as "assuring" and "support".

You read it as Abhisit pushing for elections next year, even though he doesn't use the word elections. You claim I accused Abhisit of being vague. While I didn't before, if this is how he pushes for elections it certainly strikes me as vague. He doesn't call for elections, he only references the "roadmap", and you yourself admit you can't find the roadmap, and allude to the possibility of past, present and future roadmaps. I don't know if this roadmap exists in print or if it is a vague plan in the Prayut's head. The more you defend Abhisit as being clear, the more vague you make him seem.

Perhaps you should accept that not everyone puts Abhisit on a pedestal.

I just follow the dots.

Abhisit says Prayut to adhere to the roadmap. The road map itself says elections are to be held in 2017. I don't see how you can read it any other way. How can this be anything other than calling for elections in 2017? He has on several occasions stated that the 2007 constitution should be the fallback position if the current charter is rejected. Others have called on the prior constitution to be reinstated -- but that is just not going to happen without a lot of blood spilled in the streets (it would be a massive loss of face for Prayut - not something he would accept).

Maybe it is just that I have diplomats as sisters, but when even when you are in a situation where you have to be blunt you tend to follow it by also saying more soothing to the ears.... If you are waiting for Abhisit to act as a revolutionary - you would be waiting a long time. He on several occasions said enough to piss Prayut off, but always stops short of going so far as to be sent to a "re-education camp"....

[webfact]

Democrat party rejects draft constitution



BANGKOK: -- The Democrat party will not accept the draft constitution because it goes against the party’s ideology and it may lead to more political conflicts, Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva announced today of the party’s standpoint regarding the draft charter.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/934661-democrat-party-rejects-draft-constitution/

[Thailand]

Wow, I got that one wrong, is there anyone in favor of this charter now?

[heybruce]

Wow, I got that one wrong, is there anyone in favor of this charter now?

Of course; Suthep, the junta, and, most important, the people who will count the votes. That should be enough to guarantee it is "approved".

Edited July 28, 2016 by heybruce