Non-o For Supporting A Thai Child

[Nikkijah]

Hi all, especially sunbelt asia

I want to be clear on my situation and for others in my position to feel comfortable too

I have a Non-O because I support my Thai/UK child, I obtained the visa in Penang with no hassles

I took my sons birth certificate along with approx. B5,000

I collected my visa the next day, simple

No questions were asked about my income, in fact, no questions were asked at all

My visa is due to expire in January and I would like to get an extension for 1 year - I guess this means another year of leaving the country every 90 days

My concern is, if I was to go to the right office in Bangkok or wherever for renewal of this visa, would I be asked to prove my income for the extension, in other words, if my visa was due to expire and I had to travel to Penang again to apply for a new visa would I have to show any more documents than I showed on my last visit last year??

Or, is the proof of funds only required for a Non-O for marriage purposes??

Thanks anybody in advance for your help

Nikkijah

[Maestro]

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

1. if you are working and meet certain criteria, extension based on employment

2. non-O visas, as you just got in Penang. Penang and many other locations issue only single-entry visa. As per latest reports, in the region Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still issue multiple-entry visa, but nobody can say how long this will continue.

---------------

Maestro

[Nikkijah]

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

1. if you are working and meet certain criteria, extension based on employment

2. non-O visas, as you just got in Penang. Penang and many other locations issue only single-entry visa. As per latest reports, in the region Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still issue multiple-entry visa, but nobody can say how long this will continue.

---------------

Maestro

Thanks Maestro

Does anybody have any recent experience of obtaining a NON-O under similar circumstances as mine?

Thanks again

Nikkijah

[lopburi3]

If your visa is still valid until January (the date on the Penang issued visa) then you can still obtain another 90 day stay in January if you use it before the expiration date. If you mean it has already expired and you are on your final stay you might want to travel now to obtain a new non immigrant visa as the Consulates are very likely to be a madhouse in January when the 90 day limit of entry without visa takes effect. As said both KL and Singapore in the local area can provide multi entry.

Proof of funds is never normally required for marriage or child visa (visit). It was sometimes used as an unofficial indicator to issue a non immigrant O visa to those over age 50 without child/spouse reasons for entry.

[Nikkijah]

Thanks lopburi3

I am on my last 90 days of the visa, I'll have to take a trip to Singapore I suppose Unless someone can recommend KL...

[lopburi3]

Singapore seems to be the flavor of the month.

[Nawtilus]

That is strange, unless there is something I missed here, then I would have to say you are both spot on wrong....

I am under 50 and get an extension of a non O for being the father of a thai child. Got one in April I think it was, here in Bkk.

[Matt the Cat]

Having the birth papers to prove you are the Father seems to take precedence.

[Nikkijah]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll just have to watch this space and see what happens in the future with the 'guinea pigs'

Sounds like it could still be a game of chance regarding what consulate to pay a visit to...

[Maestro]

I'll just have to watch this space and see what happens in the future with the 'guinea pigs'

“Guinea pigs” seems indeed to be the operative word. A moment ago I read this post of a ThaiVisa member who had a negative experience with his application for extension for the reason of living with his Thai child, even though he is over 50 years old and therefore clearly qualifies under this clause.

---------------

Maestro

[Nawtilus]

Well that sucks then.

Is it just my bad luck now, or do they still issue them to people who were approved prior to this date.

By this I mean that I spent a reasonable sum to go to court to be recognised as the childs father and the support, now they change the rules just a year later.

[billd766]

I'll just have to watch this space and see what happens in the future with the 'guinea pigs'

“Guinea pigs” seems indeed to be the operative word. A moment ago I read this post of a ThaiVisa member who had a negative experience with his application for extension for the reason of living with his Thai child, even though he is over 50 years old and therefore clearly qualifies under this clause.

---------------

Maestro

The only thing that I can think of in that post is that he was in Chiang Mai. I have to go to Bangkok next week and I will try to talk to somebody in Suan Phlu and see if it can be clarified. Whilst there is a national policy perhaps some of the larger Immigration offices are allowed to "locally modify" the rules and have more latitude in interpreting them.

[billd766]

I'll just have to watch this space and see what happens in the future with the 'guinea pigs'

“Guinea pigs” seems indeed to be the operative word. A moment ago I read this post of a ThaiVisa member who had a negative experience with his application for extension for the reason of living with his Thai child, even though he is over 50 years old and therefore clearly qualifies under this clause.

---------------

Maestro

The only thing that I can think of in that post is that he was in Chiang Mai. I have to go to Bangkok next week and I will try to talk to somebody in Suan Phlu and see if it can be clarified. Whilst there is a national policy perhaps some of the larger Immigration offices are allowed to "locally modify" the rules and have more latitude in interpreting them.

I went to Suan Phlu yesterday to try to clarify the policy and ask if I could change my support visa from my wife to my son. I am 62 so well inside the limit.

I first spoke to the pick a number front desk and neither of the ladies on the desk understood what I was asking but pointed me to another lady sitting at the bottom of the stairs who also did not know. She then stopped a lady sub-inspector who told me that it is correct that over 50 you can get a visa to support your child in place of supporting your wife BUTshe was not on the desk and I suspect that the staff there would have to go to the row behind to get a ruling.

As I don't have to worry until next September I will also wait for the guinea pigs results.

#

[Nawtilus]

Well that sucks then.

Is it just my bad luck now, or do they still issue them to people who were approved prior to this date.

By this I mean that I spent a reasonable sum to go to court to be recognised as the childs father and the support, now they change the rules just a year later.

Good news. You are "grandfathered in"

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

WooHoo....I knew all those promises to be good would have to pay off sooner or later !

[Nakhon1]

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

Two issues here.

Firstly, to obtain a one year extension of stay to support a Thai child my understanding is you DO have to provide evidence that you have an income. The amount and what constitutes proof are not prescribed, it being up to the immigration officer to decide what is reasonable in your circumstances. (Fair? If you intend to take a Thai wife or fiancee to the UK you have to prove she can be supported without recourse to public funds, but the amount you must have in income or savings is not laid down). You need to read the re-issued visa rules TOGETHER WITH the other requirements for visa extension published on immigration police website.

Furthermore I am not alone in doubting the age restriction of 50 is applicable. Sunbelts and Immigrations translation of the visa rules are contradictory and both are confused. I believe you can obtain a visa to support your, or your Thai spouse's, child irrespective of your age but provided the child is not over 20 and is unmarried and is living with the immediate family.

I believe you can obtain a visa to obtain support FROM a Thai parent provided the Thai parent is over 50. (I believe this is where the magic number 50 comes into play).

Thridly you can obtain a visa to obtain support FROM a Thai child irrsepective of age of either party.

In all three instances the immigration officer has to be satisifed that sufficient money is available.

Does anyone seriously believe that a destitute farang will be given a visa to "support" his child simply because he is over 50 (or even under 50 if I am correct)?

I have based my assumptions on reading both translations and the immigration website.

OK Maestro, Lopburi, Sunbelt et al ...shoot me down.

Added in edit:

I note Sunbelts use of the term "live with" rather than "support" to explain the issue of not needing proof of income. Immigration website refers specifically to support.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Nakhon1

[Lenn2005]

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

1. if you are working and meet certain criteria, extension based on employment

2. non-O visas, as you just got in Penang. Penang and many other locations issue only single-entry visa. As per latest reports, in the region Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still issue multiple-entry visa, but nobody can say how long this will continue.

---------------

Maestro

Thanks Maestro

Does anybody have any recent experience of obtaining a NON-O under similar circumstances as mine?

Thanks again

Nikkijah

hi,

yes, I've had a recent experience. infact today. I tried twice this week using the TM7 form..section 17.7..clause 5 of the immigration act. what a bloody frustrating waste of time. they hadn't a clue what this was about and said that they are only told what to do by the higher authorities and that is to only issue two kinds of non..0 visas...one is a retirement and the other for supporting a wife and/or child. either one will require that you have money. for supporting a a wife/child...you need to declare an income of....ummmm...that's another question. don't build your hopes up on this stunt if I were you. it might work if you pay a lawer to represent you which means a rediculous fee and without a doubt, some of that will line the pockets of you know who.

cheers

[Lenn2005]

hi,

yes, I've had a recent experience. infact today. I tried twice this week using the TM7 form..section 17.7..clause 5 of the immigration act. what a bloody frustrating waste of time. they hadn't a clue what this was about and said that they are only told what to do by the higher authorities and that is to only issue two kinds of non..0 visas...one is a retirement and the other for supporting a wife and/or child. either one will require that you have money. for supporting a a wife/child...you need to declare an income of....ummmm...that's another question. don't build your hopes up on this stunt if I were you. it might work if you pay a lawer to represent you which means a rediculous fee and without a doubt, some of that will line the pockets of you know who.

cheers

Well we have done it for our clients without "line the pockets of you know who" A legal firm is suppose to make your life smoother. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have a job.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

sunbelt, can you really do this for me? going from the experience I've had in the past two days...it really looked like an absolute No No. they didn't want to know about it and simply said it was not in their power to give me this visa extension. Iemailed you a couple of days ago asking if this is possible and i'm still waiting for a reply. I will gladly pay the 6,500 baht...it's nothing compared to the expenses I will have to bear if I have to do embassy runs.

cheers

and yes, I apologise...we're not all crooks.

[Nakhon1]

Well we have done it for our clients without "line the pockets of you know who" A legal firm is suppose to make your life smoother. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have a job.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Are you stating that the Immigration Police website is wrong and there is not need to produce evidence of income for an 12 month extension of stay to live with/support a Thai child?

Are you stating as a fact that your firm has obtained 12 month extensions of stay without evidence of income from either or both an alien applicant or any Thai family member?

Further the are contradictions between your translation of the new police Order and that on the Thai Immigration website. Do you insist yours is correct?

[JacknDanny]

Thanks lopburi3

I am on my last 90 days of the visa, I'll have to take a trip to Singapore I suppose Unless someone can recommend KL...

I can only tell you what has just happened to me in Singapore.

I am under 50yrs with 5 yr old child (Thai/UK) seperated from his mother for the past 3.5 yrs (never married) with legal and sole custody of my child,granted by Thai Court.

I took all the legal paperwork along with childs Birth Certificate. I was REFUSED 1 yr O visa, and given 3 month single entry O!!!

THEY told me I needed a Marriage Cert plus Birth Cert of child to get 1 yr O even though I was not married to the mother AND had all neccessary Docs from the court.

They told me if I had the marriage Cert plus Birth Cert then I would not need anything else including bank statements or proof of income

[Nakhon1]

We have been doing it for clients. But remember the extension is not to support your child. Its to live with them. This why you do not need funds in the bank or income of 40K per month. This is for the extension of stay permit.

If you are changing to a "O" visa than you need 400K Baht in a bank as they only have the category called support of a Thai national. The new rules for change of visa have not come out yet for living with your child.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sorry to labour this point but it is of great importance to many forum members.

We accept that recent Police Orders make no reference to income. But on the immigration website, it stipulates that evidence of income be provided to support the application, as you will be aware.

An alien may intend to live with his Thai child but either one is supporting the other or they are jointly supporting themselves.

Is the Immigration website, to your certain knowledge, or in your professional opinion wrong?

Is it not possible that you may have had some success in obtaining extensions without the required documentation because some immigration police are also confused with the latest requirements?

How many extensions of stay based on "living with" a Thai child have you successfully processed since 1 Oct, where evidence of income has not been ofered or requested?.

Have you attempted to obtain extensions for persons under 50 on basis of "supporting" Thai child and if so how many have been declined? Have you refused to act on behalf of those under 50 because of your interpretation of the regulations?

My intent is not to impugn your integity or professionalism, but simply to allow us to put your comments into perspective.

[lopburi3]

Nakhon1:

You have posted twice in one hour on a Saturday night. Give people a chance to see your post please.

The Immigration web site still reflects the requirements in place before the recent changes.

[Nakhon1]

Nakhon1:

You have posted twice in one hour on a Saturday night. Give people a chance to see your post please.

The Immigration web site still reflects the requirements in place before the recent changes.

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders. It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating. It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

I do not apologise for pressing this issue which is a matter of concern to a good friend of mine. I am actually hoping I am wrong. I am attempting to play devils advocate.

[sbk]

Nakhon1:

You have posted twice in one hour on a Saturday night. Give people a chance to see your post please.

The Immigration web site still reflects the requirements in place before the recent changes.

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders. It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating. It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

I do not apologise for pressing this issue which is a matter of concern to a good friend of mine. I am actually hoping I am wrong. I am attempting to play devils advocate.

Not alot of point in pressing the issue on a Saturday night as your friend certainly won't be able to do anything about it tomorrow, will he?

Sunbelt is probably off enjoying a good night off, so why not give him a day or so to reply?

As for Jackndanny, the one year extension we are talking about is not given at the embassy but applied for at the Immigration office here in Thailand.

[JacknDanny]

Nakhon1:

You have posted twice in one hour on a Saturday night. Give people a chance to see your post please.

The Immigration web site still reflects the requirements in place before the recent changes.

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders. It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating. It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

I do not apologise for pressing this issue which is a matter of concern to a good friend of mine. I am actually hoping I am wrong. I am attempting to play devils advocate.

Not alot of point in pressing the issue on a Saturday night as your friend certainly won't be able to do anything about it tomorrow, will he?

Sunbelt is probably off enjoying a good night off, so why not give him a day or so to reply?

As for Jackndanny, the one year extension we are talking about is not given at the embassy but applied for at the Immigration office here in Thailand.

Sbk.I am that confused I dont know whether Ive been kissed, f##### or run over!!!

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sorry to labour this point but it is of great importance to many forum members.

We accept that recent Police Orders make no reference to income. But on the immigration website, it stipulates that evidence of income be provided to support the application, as you will be aware.

The Police Order is the update. The new regulations have not been updated on the Immigration website. I just went to http://www.imm3.police.go.th and it says under construction. "Come back soon" They should be doing the same to http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service# as it has not been updated. Look at

Application for further stay for an alien husband who supports a wife who is Thai citizen or who is a permanent resident of the Kingdom of Thailand

Financial evidence showing financial status of the husband

Bank account pass-book, personal bank statement of the account owner.

Evidence indicating income along with related documents. If receiving pension, a document of pension payment certified by the embassy or consulate of the country that pays pension is needed.

In case of working in Thailand, Work permit and evidence of tax payment are required.

Documents indicating Thai nationality or permanent residence of the wife such as identification card (ID), census registration address / residence identification, or passport (in case that the wife is a permanent resident)

A record of interviewing the applicant and his wife.

Applicant must accompany his wife to the Immigration Bureau office to certify of all the documents. The couple will be able to confirm that they are still husband and wife.

Evidence certified by the applicant's embassy or consulate showing the applicant's marital status.

The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents from the applicant if necessary.

Wife of Thai nationality:

TM. 7

Passport copy

Passport picture (4x6 cm)

Application fee 1,900.- Baht

Marriage certificate

House register and identification card of wife

Birth certificate of children (if any)

Interview record of applicant and wife

Applicant must accompany his wife to the Immigration Bureau office to certify of all the documents. The couple will be able to confirm that they are still husband and wife.

Financial documentation:

- Bank statement and copy of bank account showing at least 400,000.- Baht deposit

- Employment evidence, work permit, and tax documentation showing an income of at least 40,000.- Baht.

You like to see how many new applicants wish that law was still valid after Oct 1st?

Or look

"Application for further stay to take care of the child during the term of education "

You need 800K in the bank. It is now just 500K.

This is juat a couple items. Many more can be found as the new changes have not been updated.

An alien may intend to live with his Thai child but either one is supporting the other or they are jointly supporting themselves.

Is the Immigration website, to your certain knowledge, or in your professional opinion wrong?

They are not issuing extensions of stay based on a father having a Thai child. No matter how much money you have in the bank or your income unless you are over 50 years old or you have been grandfathered in. This law is no longer valid unless you have been grand fathered in prior to Oct 1st.

Is it not possible that you may have had some success in obtaining extensions without the required documentation because some immigration police are also confused with the latest requirements?

What you can't get is a extension if you are under 50 years old. Even with a court order that you have custody. One officer stated tell the client "move out of Thailand or get a job"

How many extensions of stay based on "living with" a Thai child have you successfully processed since 1 Oct, where evidence of income has not been ofered or requested?.

No one has been approved by having money or income. It is the age of over 50 years old, then they were approved.

Have you attempted to obtain extensions for persons under 50 on basis of "supporting" Thai child and if so how many have been declined?

All have been declined but we don't take any case like this unless they want to change the visa to a "O" then we can get the 90 days but as for a extension of stay.... forget about it, unless they already had the extension of stay before Oct 1st 2006 or they are over 50 years old.

Have you refused to act on behalf of those under 50 because of your interpretation of the regulations?

No because if you touch a stove that is hot. After a while you know your fingers are going to hurt if you touch it. Why hasn't someone come on and stated they did get a extension of stay after Oct 1st and they were a first time applicant. The reason is odds are VERY high, noone has been approved, because they are under 50 years old. I stated before "why is no one screaming on Thaivisa?" They certainly do at Immigration.

y intent is not to impugn your integity or professionalism, but simply to allow us to put your comments into perspective.

Fair enough. Glad I have the opportunity to do so.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders.

I agree with you on that

It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating.

I disagree with you and you even did with yourself, in a earlier post.

It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

You didn't think so in a earlier post. You wrote

Further the are contradictions between your translation of the new police Order and that on the Thai Immigration website. Do you insist yours is correct?

Go back and look how compatible the new orders are with the website. You will see, it has quite a bit of updating to take place

I do not apologise for pressing this issue which is a matter of concern to a good friend of mine. I am actually hoping I am wrong. I am attempting to play devils advocate.

I understand you are emotional about this. I have stated for over two months, this is nuts. But this is how Immigration are handling extension of stays.

Sbk wrote

Not alot of point in pressing the issue on a Saturday night as your friend certainly won't be able to do anything about it tomorrow, will he?

Sunbelt is probably off enjoying a good night off, so why not give him a day or so to reply?

LOL. I wish. In fact I'm at the computer at one of our restaurants. Its now 11:15 p.m. Have been out all day in the hot sun selling sandwiches at a school. Time to go home and get a hot shower.

Thanks for your comments.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Nakhon1]

Sbk wrote

Not alot of point in pressing the issue on a Saturday night as your friend certainly won't be able to do anything about it tomorrow, will he?

Sunbelt is probably off enjoying a good night off, so why not give him a day or so to reply?

LOL. I wish. In fact I'm at the computer at one of our restaurants. Its now 11:15 p.m. Have been out all day in the hot sun selling sandwiches at a school. Time to go home and get a hot shower.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply to my several posts on a Saturday night.

For SBKs benefit, I do not recall giving Sunbelt a deadline for responding and I certainly didn't stay up to read the replies.

you raise a mumber of issues.

One example of discrepancies in interpretation of Police Orders is Clause 7.17(4). Imm website says child must be living with the family yours says something to the effect that the child must not have lived with the family.

If your interpretation of the Orders is correct it mean an alien can apply for a visa on the basis of being a child of his/her spouse which means he would have to marry his Thai mother!!!!.

I have never stated there is reference to income requirement for living with Thai child in the Orders, as you claim. It is a requirement specified in documents required for visa extension for "support" Thai child.

I accept revision of the "required documents" is required.

I am convinced that the revision will clarify that an alien parent of ANY age can apply for extension to support child and that the age of 50 refers to an alien seeking support from a Thai parent, in which case the parent should be aged 50 or over (no change then). Further it is inconceivable that Thailand will allow extension for a farang in any instance unless there is evidence the farang can support himself or be supported by a family member. Time will tell.

You twice accuse me of contradicting myself. I do not believe I have, but if so it is a habit I must have picked up from the regular contributors to this worthy site.

[Banyai]

hi,

yes, I've had a recent experience. infact today. I tried twice this week using the TM7 form..section 17.7..clause 5 of the immigration act. what a bloody frustrating waste of time. they hadn't a clue what this was about and said that they are only told what to do by the higher authorities and that is to only issue two kinds of non..0 visas...one is a retirement and the other for supporting a wife and/or child. either one will require that you have money. for supporting a a wife/child...you need to declare an income of....ummmm...that's another question. don't build your hopes up on this stunt if I were you. it might work if you pay a lawer to represent you which means a rediculous fee and without a doubt, some of that will line the pockets of you know who.

cheers

Well we have done it for our clients without "line the pockets of you know who" A legal firm is suppose to make your life smoother. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have a job.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Iam 50 with son 7 on entry visa 30 day can i go to bangkok for visa or not?

[Maestro]

One example of discrepancies in interpretation of Police Orders is Clause 7.17(4). Imm website says child must be living with the family yours says something to the effect that the child must not have lived with the family.

Aha! Perhaps this is why you and Sunbelt have been talking at cross purposes. You are talking about 7.17(4), Sunbelt about 7.17(5)

But please note that under 7.17.(4), the child is the applicant for extension, under 7.17(5) the applicant is the father.

---------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

Further the are contradictions between your translation of the new police Order and that on the Thai Immigration website.

Nakhon1, I think I have the solution for you. We now have the link to the Thai original text of Police Order 606/2006 (thanks to Mumbo Jumbo) and you can have your own translation made of any paragraph that seems unclear.

I have to admit that also I find translations of Thai texts of laws and regulations not easy to understand and frequently get confused. This includes this particular Police Order, but with the patient help of Sunbelt and others on this forum I have begun to understand it more clearly. I have a personal interest in this because I plan to apply in Bangkok under 7.17(5) in two months.

---------------

Maestro