Non-o For Supporting A Thai Child

[Banyai]

One example of discrepancies in interpretation of Police Orders is Clause 7.17(4). Imm website says child must be living with the family yours says something to the effect that the child must not have lived with the family.

Aha! Perhaps this is why you and Sunbelt have been talking at cross purposes. You are talking about 7.17(4), Sunbelt about 7.17(5)

But please note that under 7.17.(4), the child is the applicant for extension, under 7.17(5) the applicant is the father.

---------------

Maestro

Can you apply with a on entry 30 day visa or not ???????

[Sunbelt Asia]

One example of discrepancies in interpretation of Police Orders is Clause 7.17(4). Imm website says child must be living with the family yours says something to the effect that the child must not have lived with the family.

If your interpretation of the Orders is correct it mean an alien can apply for a visa on the basis of being a child of his/her spouse which means he would have to marry his Thai mother!!!!.

It has nothing to do with 7.17(5) If you want to combine everything in this section 7.17, the person that would ever meet the criteria, would be a very unique individual.

I have never stated there is reference to income requirement for living with Thai child in the Orders, as you claim. It is a requirement specified in documents required for visa extension for "support" Thai child.

I didn't state you had. I asked where was it in the Police Order? It was to make a point, that it can't be found.

The point is the extension of stay to support a Thai child, no longer exist, unless you had the extension before Oct 1st.

I accept revision of the "required documents" is required.

Ok then were on the same page on that main point.

I am convinced that the revision will clarify that an alien parent of ANY age can apply for extension to support child and that the age of 50 refers to an alien seeking support from a Thai parent, in which case the parent should be aged 50 or over (no change then). Further it is inconceivable that Thailand will allow extension for a farang in any instance unless there is evidence the farang can support himself or be supported by a family member. Time will tell.

Time has already been told since Oct 1st.

You wrote

that the age of 50 refers to an alien seeking support from a Thai parent, in which case the parent should be aged 50 or over (no change then)

If the "alien" has a Thai parent, they are Thai. It does not matter then if the Thai parent was 20 years old or over 50 years old. Under your logic, a Thai parent better not think of having a child if they are 40 years old as the child won't be able to live with them in Thailand to get support. These " alien" children are the ones stated in 7.22. of the Police Order. Notice no age restriction or income or money in the bank required as well.

You twice accuse me of contradicting myself. I do not believe I have, but if so it is a habit I must have picked up from the regular contributors to this worthy site.

Please review your posts in reference to the police order corresponds to the website and then you wrote later it does not.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Nakhon1, I think I have the solution for you. We now have the link to the Thai original text of Police Order 606/2006 (thanks to Mumbo Jumbo) and you can have your own translation made of any paragraph that seems unclear.

Thanks for pointing it out again for Nakhorn1. He did state earlier though he saw it When he wrote

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders. It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating. It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Can you apply with a on entry 30 day visa or not ???????

No not at this time for 7.17(5).

You could do this, change the 30 day stamp to a "O" visa based on " support of a Thai national" with 400K in the bank. Then in 90 days do the extension to live with your child under 7.17(5).

You will find you can change the visa to support but you cannot get the extension of stay to support. The third floor at Immigration has not gotten the new rules to correspond with the extension of stay located on the 1st floor.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Nawtilus]

So which floor is the laziest, the 1st or 3rd floor.

I would think the 3rd floor, as it takes less effort to walk down the stairs than up them.....but then they have to get back up to the 3rd floor.... looks like we have a mexican standoff in Los.

[Sunbelt Asia]

So which floor is the laziest, the 1st or 3rd floor.

I would think the 3rd floor, as it takes less effort to walk down the stairs than up them.....but then they have to get back up to the 3rd floor.... looks like we have a mexican standoff in Los.

The Third floor ( change of visa) is just waiting for the new Police Order instructions. The new Police Order that went in effect on Oct 1st was just for foreigners applying for the extension of stay. ( 1st floor)

The new Police Order for the change of a visa class was suppose to come out on Nov 15th but has been delayed. This new Police Order is of course expected to correspond to the same requirements when an alien applies for the extension of stay.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[MikeWill]

Rather confusing, isn't it.

It would be appreciated, if someone state the (new) rules/regulations and their current status in simple English.

Is it possible today to obtain a one year visa extension of stay based on living with your Thai child for applicants who are over 50 years of age and without a declaration of funds/income?

Is an age limit of 50 relevant or not?

What documents are required?

My current visa extension is based on support of my Thai wife. I have THB 400K in Thai Bank. Can I apply for the next visa extension based on living with my Thai/farang child? If yes, what are the reqiured documents, proceedings?

[November Rain]

I'm in a different situation. My Thai boyfriend died in March leaving me as sole support and parent/carer for his child. Not biologically mine, although he has been with me for 3 years & thinks I'm his Mum. I'm currently on a non-imm B, but don't think I'll get it next year, as I run a non-profit org. I live off of savings & have been here for 5 years.

I've been informed I've got virtually no chance of adopting, but should be able to keep "my" son if I can stay here. I'm 37. What chance do I have of getting an O visa based on living with/supporting him, when he's not mine, biologically?

I'd be grateful for any replies, as I'm worried stiff. Thanks!

[Rob_Ptty]

Nikkijah, without getting lost in the myriad of replies that followed your initial question I have just been through the Divorce process. Having gained full custody of my son my first concern, and question to my Lawyer (Thai), was where do I stand regarding my Non-O Visa?

The long & the short of it, and I certainly lost sight of this point, is that the Non-O is NOT a Marriage Visa. The Non-O is a "dependants" Visa for visiting family resident in Thailand. The rules for applying for a long-stay Non-O do not change.

Provided you have the appropriate paperwork, in this case the Divorce Certicate (from the Amphoe) and supporting documents proving that you have custody and your child's Thai Birth Certificate then any Thai Consulate or Embassy will issue or renew your Non-O Visa. The Hull Consulate does not even require documents, although they certainly help, provided you complete the self-certification form included in their application pack.

Hope that helps....

[h5kaf]

I don't want to get involved in the silly nit picking that some members seem to enjoy. I have a question similar to "Condo BK" and would appreciate Sunbelt's view.

I am over 50 and have had a number of visa extensions (7 or 8). Some have been on the basis of being married to a Thai, whilst the majority have been retirement visas. The reason for the swop is that the Phuket immigration find it easier and convenient to issue the retirement visas, there and then, whilst the marriage visa extension application has to go off to BKK and approval usually takes 3 months.

I also have a 3year old daughter whom I live with and support. I now have some questions similar to Condo's questions.

Can I get my next visa extension on the basis of living and supporting my child?

Would this extension be independent of my marriage?

What documents would I need and would money be involved, if so how much?

Sunbelt you are doing a great job here and I am, and I'm sure many others are, truly grateful. Thanks.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I don't want to get involved in the silly nit picking that some members seem to enjoy. I have a question similar to "Condo BK" and would appreciate Sunbelt's view.

Happy to help

I am over 50 and have had a number of visa extensions (7 or 8). Some have been on the basis of being married to a Thai, whilst the majority have been retirement visas. The reason for the swop is that the Phuket immigration find it easier and convenient to issue the retirement visas, there and then, whilst the marriage visa extension application has to go off to BKK and approval usually takes 3 months.

I also have a 3year old daughter whom I live with and support. I now have some questions similar to Condo's questions.

Can I get my next visa extension on the basis of living and supporting my child?

If you are over 50 years old...yes

Would this extension be independent of my marriage?

yes

What documents would I need and would money be involved, if so how much?

The birth certificate of the child. The marriage certificate as well if you have one.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht Government fee is 1,900 Baht

Sunbelt you are doing a great job here and I am, and I'm sure many others are, truly grateful.

Thank you very much for the warm comments. Very much appreciated.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Is it possible today to obtain a one year visa extension of stay based on living with your Thai child for applicants who are over 50 years of age and without a declaration of funds/income?

yes

Is an age limit of 50 relevant or not?

Very much so. You MUST be over 50 years old.

What documents are required?

The birth certificate of the child. The marriage certificate as well if you have one.

My current visa extension is based on support of my Thai wife. I have THB 400K in Thai Bank. Can I apply for the next visa extension based on living with my Thai/farang child? If yes, what are the reqiured documents, proceedings?

If you are over 50 years, the same as above...birth certificate of the child. The marriage certificate as well if you have one. If you are under 50 years old, that option does not exist. You need to stay with the extension of stay based on support of a Thai national ( your wife as you have been grandfathered in)

I've been informed I've got virtually no chance of adopting, but should be able to keep "my" son if I can stay here. I'm 37. What chance do I have of getting an O visa based on living with/supporting him, when he's not mine, biologically?

Sorry to say, 0 %. Keep a job here until you are over 50 years old. Thats your best way for now.

The rules for applying for a long-stay Non-O do not change.

Just depends on the Embassy/Consulate if they will issue you a single entry or multiple entry or none at all.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[briankk]

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

1. if you are working and meet certain criteria, extension based on employment

2. non-O visas, as you just got in Penang. Penang and many other locations issue only single-entry visa. As per latest reports, in the region Kuala Lumpur and Singapore still issue multiple-entry visa, but nobody can say how long this will continue.

---------------

Maestro

I have an non o married non o for child is now same not as before.

I have just gone to renew at bankok and have been refused even with the money in bank.They want to see money and 40,000 bht per month.

However it varies from place to place.

my wife is pregnat with our child and they told me it makes no difference

[Maestro]

They want to see money and 40,000 bht per month.

The rules are clear and the same for all immigration offices. You must have misunderstood the officer. In your case, applying for the first time for an annual extension of stay to live with your Thai wife, you need to show proof of monthly family income of 40,000 Baht per month. You do not have the option of applying with 400,000 Baht in the bank.

---------------

Maestro

[Sunbelt Asia]

I have an non o married non o for child is now same not as before.

I have just gone to renew at bankok and have been refused even with the money in bank.They want to see money and 40,000 bht per month.

However it varies from place to place.

my wife is pregnat with our child and they told me it makes no difference

I'm sending you a private message to see how we can help. Some wires have been crossed somewhere. It could be one item out of the aprox ten documents required is missing.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dragula]

I have some thing, that i need to know help me. I work as Army Contractor for the U.S. That give me a DOD card. I wanted to open a bank account, The bank said NO, but show my DOD card. then it was OK. Open the bank account no problem.

I got a new house in my girlfriend name, but she seeing how to put me on blue book it very nice, and a big bike. I keep about 200 thousand baht in the bank all the time. Can show a 100,000 thousand U.S. a year income. I work out side Thailand,

but my home is here in Thailand.

I cannot get married to her, because I have wife in the U.S. that is estrange, That a story in it self.

she just a rice farm family, don't know any one in Thai government. to give letter's for my self.

I don't mind pay any TAX, that give me the paper's i need.

I do give to the temple as money and food, send all the family kid to school.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I got a new house in my girlfriend name, but she seeing how to put me on blue book it very nice,

You cannot be in the bluebook as a foreigner. You however can get a yellow book in your name if she grants you a usufruct or 30 year lease.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dragula]

know more about yellow book???

Yellow book, help you get residency visa?

[Sunbelt Asia]

know more about yellow book???

Yellow book, help you get residency visa?

" A yellow book" which is a House Registration Certificate (Thor. Ror 13)

It does not help you get a residence visa.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[MikeWill]

" A yellow book" which is a House Registration Certificate (Thor. Ror 13)

Would you please elaborate a bit on this "yellow book"...

1. What vantages it provides, if any?

2. How to obtain it? What documents are required? What are the proceedings? etc.

[h5kaf]

I don't want to get involved in the silly nit picking that some members seem to enjoy. I have a question similar to "Condo BK" and would appreciate Sunbelt's view.

Happy to help

I am over 50 and have had a number of visa extensions (7 or 8). Some have been on the basis of being married to a Thai, whilst the majority have been retirement visas. The reason for the swop is that the Phuket immigration find it easier and convenient to issue the retirement visas, there and then, whilst the marriage visa extension application has to go off to BKK and approval usually takes 3 months.

I also have a 3year old daughter whom I live with and support. I now have some questions similar to Condo's questions.

Can I get my next visa extension on the basis of living and supporting my child?

If you are over 50 years old...yes

Would this extension be independent of my marriage?

yes

What documents would I need and would money be involved, if so how much?

The birth certificate of the child. The marriage certificate as well if you have one.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht Government fee is 1,900 Baht

Sunbelt you are doing a great job here and I am, and I'm sure many others are, truly grateful.

Thank you very much for the warm comments. Very much appreciated.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks Sunbelt. One final question: do you have a Phuket Office? If so Phone number please.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Thanks Sunbelt. One final question: do you have a Phuket Office? If so Phone number please.

You are welcome.

We have a Phuket office in Phuket Town. 076-233-333 extension #3618 This office however is strictly for mergers/ acquisitions. The legal is done for Phuket clients, in our BKk office at Sunbelt Asia Headquarters 02-642-0213

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[phuketrichard]

Sunbelt or whomever is 100% positve,

I am over 50 and currently on my 5th 1 year retirement extension. Always have showed 800,000 in the bank here in Phuket and never any hassle or problem.

Now I need to show the money for 3 months. I use the money to make $$.

I have a thai child, ( listed on the BC) was married in the states, legally divorced here and with court papers giving me sole custody of my child.

Can I apply for my next extension due in June based on the fact I support my thai child here?

If so how much do i have to show in the bank>? nothing, 400,000 or 8000,000?

It seems weird that I could show nothing, stranger also that I can only show 400,000 (as with a this wife) that 2 can life 50% cheaper than one.

I would really like a clear cut answer

I have read conflicting reports that becasue I am no longer married I can not apply for the support

extension.

I just don't wnat to tie up the 800,000 3 months unless I really have to.

Thanks

[Maestro]

I would really like a clear cut answer

You will find the clear-cut answer in the National Police Order No. 606/2006. Paragraph 7.17, clause (5) applies to you. The only possible problem you may encounter is that your local immigration office may not yet correctly understand and apply this new rule and that they will not bother to call head office for a clarification.

--

Maestro

[phuketrichard]

ok, thanks,

seems u need 400,000 in the bank 3 months. I guess best is to go to immigration long in advnce and ask them there as they will be the ones approving the application.

Still can't undertand why a wife or staying with your child costs 50% of what it does if ur retired>>

guess they figure a kid or wife will keep u out of the bars LOL

[Sunbelt Asia]

know more about yellow book???

Yellow book, help you get residency visa?

Sorry I missed your post before. It helps you to open a bank account and get credit. Also with a drivers license. It does not help get you a residence visa.

Sunbelt or whomever is 100% positve,

I am over 50 and currently on my 5th 1 year retirement extension. Always have showed 800,000 in the bank here in Phuket and never any hassle or problem.

Now I need to show the money for 3 months. I use the money to make $$.

I have a thai child, ( listed on the BC) was married in the states, legally divorced here and with court papers giving me sole custody of my child.

Can I apply for my next extension due in June based on the fact I support my thai child here?

yes

If so how much do i have to show in the bank>? nothing, 400,000 or 8000,000?

none

It seems weird that I could show nothing, stranger also that I can only show 400,000 (as with a this wife) that 2 can life 50% cheaper than one.

Different extension of stay. The one with your child, is to live with him as you are older than 50 years old. With the wife it does not matter what age you are but your wife and you together must have a salary together of 40K per month or if you have been grand fathered in before Oct 1st, 400K in the bank.

I have read conflicting reports that becasue I am no longer married I can not apply for the support

extension.

If you are NOT married, then you certainly cannot.

Be aware we are having success getting this approved in Bangkok, but with our lawyers. Others have experienced difficulty pointing out the new law to the officer.Any other regions we have not tried, so worse comes to worse, you would need to come to Bangkok. Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht plus 7% Vat. The government fee is 1,900 Baht.

ok, thanks,

seems u need 400,000 in the bank 3 months. I guess best is to go to immigration long in advnce and ask them there as they will be the ones approving the application.

You do not need 400K in the bank.

Still can't undertand why a wife or staying with your child costs 50% of what it does if ur retired>>

guess they figure a kid or wife will keep u out of the bars LOL

Its because in the Thai culture, a child is suppose to take care of their parents that are old.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[lopburi3]

Are you now on a support Thai wife extension of stay? If so you can continue to use the 400k method but once you change that option is history and only 40k family monthly income would be available.

You could also use the retirement option at 800k or 65k pension/income.

There is the new member of family provision that some are obtaining with no bank deposit if over age 50 and having proof of a Thai child. I have not seen any report that offices outside of Bangkok have approved this method, nor of anyone doing it on there own; but Sunbelt is confident in this method and he has the lawyers.

All I will say is that there will be no return to the 400k method if you change now if that is of any concern.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Are you now on a support Thai wife extension of stay? If so you can continue to use the 400k method but once you change that option is history and only 40k family monthly income would be available.

You could also use the retirement option at 800k or 65k pension/income.

There is the new member of family provision that some are obtaining with no bank deposit if over age 50 and having proof of a Thai child. I have not seen any report that offices outside of Bangkok have approved this method, nor of anyone doing it on there own; but Sunbelt is confident in this method and he has the lawyers.

All I will say is that there will be no return to the 400k method if you change now if that is of any concern.

Lopburi

Here he says

I have read conflicting reports that becasue I am no longer married I can not apply for the support extension.

He could qualify for the extension of stay based on retirement. Just to be on the safe side keep 800,000 Baht in the bank till he is approved for the extension of stay based on living with a Thai child. As we have experienced in the past six months, laws can change. Be prepared for the unexpected.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[phuketrichard]

Sunbelt;

Once again you confuse me.

According to the website you posted I can quailfy under section 7-17

and from what some posted,

" All you need is a document to prove your relationship with your Thai child, i.e. the child’s birth certificate indicating you as the father and perhaps also proof of the child’s Thai nationality, i.e. Thai passport or Thai ID card. Bring these, and if immigration wants anything else they will tell you (perhaps house registration, I don’t know, have not yet done this type of extension)"

I am currently on a retirement extension, ( never been on a 1 year wife extension) for 5 years showing 800,000 in the bank

I am NOT married and have a thai child.

SO; can I apply for the 1 year extension to stay with my child, ( ie lose my 1 year retirement extension)

ON the site it clearly says income of 40,000/month or 400,000 in the bank is this ONLY for an extension based on marriage?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

while you state if I have a thai child I need show no money or income? as long as the child is under 20

"QUOTE

Still can't undertand why a wife or staying with your child costs 50% of what it does if ur retired>>

guess they figure a kid or wife will keep u out of the bars LOL

Its because in the Thai culture, a child is suppose to take care of their parents that are old."

But how can a kid under 20 support their western parents?

I don't want to leave 800,000 in for 3 months.

Please which is it??

I dont want to go to immigration with no money in the bank and they tell me I CANNOT apply on section 7-17 cause I have no momey in the bank.

AHHHH thailand LOL

Thanks so much

Edited December 10, 2006 by phuketrichard

[Sunbelt Asia]

Once again you confuse me.

Sorry if this is the case. I will go slower.

According to the website you posted I can quailfy under section 7-17

and from what some posted,

" All you need is a document to prove your relationship with your Thai child, i.e. the child’s birth certificate indicating you as the father and perhaps also proof of the child’s Thai nationality, i.e. Thai passport or Thai ID card. Bring these, and if immigration wants anything else they will tell you (perhaps house registration, I don’t know, have not yet done this type of extension)"

This was not posted by us as you have pointed out, but this is accurate on the birth certificate. Also have it certified at the Regional District office.

I am currently on a retirement extension, ( never been on a 1 year wife extension) for 5 years showing 800,000 in the bank

I understood this before.

I am NOT married and have a thai child.

I understood this before.

SO; can I apply for the 1 year extension to stay with my child, ( ie lose my 1 year retirement extension)

yes

ON the site it clearly says income of 40,000/month or 400,000 in the bank is this ONLY for an extension based on marriage?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

Old info and before Oct 1st, 2006. If you are under 50 years old, you no longer even qualify to support your Thai child, unless you were approved before Oct 1st. They have not updated the website.

If you are over 50 years old. New Police Order and you now qualify with no income or money in the bank.

while you state if I have a thai child I need show no money or income? as long as the child is under 20

It does not matter how old the child is. We never said the child has to be under 20. You are looking at the Police order and getting the clauses mixed up with another clause.

But we did state you do not need to show income or funds in the bank, if you have a Thai child.

Its because in the Thai culture, a child is suppose to take care of their parents that are old."

But how can a kid under 20 support their western parents?

I don't want to leave 800,000 in for 3 months.

It is to live with the Foreign Parent in their old age. Before Oct 1st, 2006, this had to be supporting the Thai child, this no longer exist.

It is now simply to live with the Thai child and you must be over 50 years old. A Thai child can make a parent live longer by brightening their day and helping them. Not everything revolves about money in Thai culture.

You do not have to leave 800K in the bank unless you think we are full of beans or the officer will have a different interpretation.

Why not try this? As we are getting other parents approved over 50 years old and as you don't want to leave 800K in the bank for the long term. Leave it for 90 days and if you are approved under this basis of 7.17, then use the money.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com