An open letter to Thai landlords

[Craig krup]

@ Thaihome - I'm not the Emeritus Professor of Statistics at the University of Hard Sums, but I think you'll find that a sample size of "..5 or 6 thousand" is a bit larger than necessary in order to make a generalisation in this area. A thousand people in the UK - 65m - allows results within 2-3%.

 

Nowhere to comfortably sit, a <deleted>-with-frost-inside-a-week fridge and Shrek's bed is the norm. Landlords are spending 5,000 baht over and above the cost of an adequate bed, and the "advantage" of that is a room you can't walk around and no space for the Ikea armchair (1390 baht), decent office chair (1150 baht), and a proper desk (2,500 baht). 

 

It's just unwise. It's like cops buying all those expensive 9mm pistols recently. The American Hi Point ($150) would have done the job and allowed for a lot of wise and necessary spending on other things, but there's just a chronic lack of thought. 

[SoiBiker]

The bed's not too big - the apartment's too small. 

 

If you want more room to walk around, rent somewhere bigger.

[lkn]

Great idea, downgrading the bed to half the size so that there is room to walk around and even a cheap armchair.

 

 

Might be a little uncomfortable to sleep two people, but who cares, we all know that people who rent these shoe boxes are single and spend most of their time reading in the armchair.

 

[Craig krup]

50 minutes ago, lkn said:

Great idea, downgrading the bed to half the size so that there is room to walk around and even a cheap armchair.

 

 

Might be a little uncomfortable to sleep two people, but who cares, we all know that people who rent these shoe boxes are single and spend most of their time reading in the armchair.

 

 

No, as I said right at the start, most of the time it's one person, when it isn't it's rarely two full-sized farangs, all designs are a compromise (holds for cars, tanks, planes, people and everything else), and you give up far too much in a 30 sq m apartment if you have the world's most implausible bed. 

 

Put differently, if you're right why does nobody with their own studio apartment in the West fill the <deleted> thing with a bed? Have a look at the fifty suggested designs below. Identify the one which involves filling the whole barsteward room with a bed. 

 

http://www.home-designing.com/2014/06/studio-apartment-floor-plans

 

 

[SoiBiker]

Why is it 'rarely two full-sized farangs'? I know plenty of people who share a bed with another farang. 

 

If you want space, don't rent a shoebox. 

[Craig krup]

25 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Why is it 'rarely two full-sized farangs'? I know plenty of people who share a bed with another farang. 

 

If you want space, don't rent a shoebox. 

 

Okay. This is good. Let's ask ourselves, are the two statements 1) "Most 30 sq m studios won't have two 180lb farangs in the bed as a matter of routine", AND 2) "Soibiker knows farangs who share a bed" mutually exclusive? Does the statement, "Sometimes a person with a small studio will share a bed with another large person" entail "It is wise to give up all of your ordinary comfort in a studio against this eventuality"? 

 

Jesus wept. If you really are going to have two people living and sleeping together routinely then you do indeed need a bigger flat. But if you're providing accommodation for the cohort who are going to rent small condos it makes absolutely <deleted> all sense to stick a massive bed in it, which - taking all "renter nights" together - is an advantage 6% of the time, a total <deleted> nuisance 100% of the time, and a pain-adjusted sane choice 0% of the time. 

 

This must have been what it was like as a member of the General Staff trying to talk sense into Hitler. "Yes, Fuhrer, it really would be wonderful to have many, many King Tigers. Yes, indeed Fuhrer, the armour is wonderful. Yes, we all agree that the gun is quite magnificent. These would all be advantages ceteris paribus.....I beg your pardon, Fuhrer, these would all be advantages other things being equal. But it is our considered judgment that other things never are equal, Fuhrer. We have tough choices to make. Our view, Fuhrer, is that quantity has a quality all of its own. So - and we stand to be corrected, Fuhrer - we do think that 1,000 T 34s might be able to overwhelm one of our wonderful, but an absolute c*** to manufacture, King Tigers. Fuhrer". 

 

But hey, what place has Enlightenment reason in a Buddhist country. 

[SoiBiker]

Then if the bed's too big, don't rent the studio.

 

Renting something that's not suitable for you and then complaining about the landlord just makes you seem a bit silly. 

[SoiBiker]

Oh, and nice Godwins. Getting from studio apartments to Hitler is pretty impressive work. 

[DipStick]

I have read this thread three times, and can only see one post on the actual size of the apartments mentioned, and that was 30sqm .for the love of God even in crowded HK majority of hotel rooms are bigger than that. 

Surely the conversation is about financial capabilities, if you cannot afford then of course you will end up living in a shoe box that you don't like. Cannot blame the landlord for that.

in 2006 when working in BKK, I rented a three bedroom house with garden, lovely kitchen in Samakkee from a Thai landlord and I paid 12,000 a month. A steal. I moved out to China in 2009 and have kept in touch with the landlord, he tells me if I ever move back to Bangkok he will offer me the same house for the same price.... why ? Because it treated HIS house as mine and looked after it. He remembered that. Think about it 

[NickJ]

Death excluded.  But maybe less assclonics will get scared and stop coming here.

[Craig krup]

40 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Then if the bed's too big, don't rent the studio.

 

Renting something that's not suitable for you and then complaining about the landlord just makes you seem a bit silly. 

 

Do you honestly not realize what you're doing? I'm talking about an irrational tendency across a multitude of actors, you're choosing to frame this as a whinge about one apartment. No wonder forums die on their backside after a while. There was a notion that the web would produce something like "public reason", but it should be called the World Wide Crosspurposes.

[SoiBiker]

You seem to be the only one who thinks it's irrational. 

 

I'd say it was more irrational to rent a place that doesn't suit you, then blame the landlord. A bit like buying a shirt that doesn't fit, then blaming the shop. 

[Craig krup]

3 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

You seem to be the only one who thinks it's irrational. 

 

I'd say it was more irrational to rent a place that doesn't suit you, then blame the landlord. A bit like buying a shirt that doesn't fit, then blaming the shop. 

 

...and still he misses the point. I know you think it's me, but trust me, a ton of paper means it's you. Look really, really closely at the following words - "I think the divorce laws in California are ill-conceived". Now, 1) I've never been married, and nor will I marry, and 2) I've never been in California. You see what I've done? I've made a point about a state of affairs irrespective of its impact on me, and irrespective of my ability to avoid bearing a cost. 

 

Now take that notion and run with it. Thai landlords typically make sh1t choices when they furnish apartments. They make choices very different to those that would be made by someone smart enough to work out where their interests lay, and then pursued them. I'm making a dispassionate and technical judgment about the skill they exercise, or rather the lack of it. Experts in condo design never do what they do - that has to tell you something. 

 

So place to one side the particulars - what you imagine I should do - and consider the question in the abstract. If a 1,000 people who had studied as both undergraduate and postgraduate students, and who thus had a ton of experience of living (and shagging) in small spaces, were given 25,000 baht and 30 square meters, how many of them would rush out and buy a bed that would sleep the Waltons? 

 

Can't consider the issue in that way? Fine. 

[SoiBiker]

Maybe they make those choices because they're not aiming them at you? Most people think a big bed is a good thing, and don't spend their spare time going on hikes around their condo. 

[Craig krup]

2 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Maybe they make those choices because they're not aiming them at you? Most people think a big bed is a good thing, and don't spend their spare time going on hikes around their condo. 

 

Do you want to aver, "I think thoughtful people skilled in the art would - given the space and money - mirror the landlords' choices", or do you want to just ignore that question? 

[SoiBiker]

I'm not sure that skilled, well-educated folk are exactly the target market for cheap shoebox studio apartments. 

 

But this is all speculation. The only facts we have here are that you've rented a place you find unsuitable for your needs, and somehow you seem to think thats anyone else's fault but your own. 

[Craig krup]

9 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

I'm not sure that skilled, well-educated folk are exactly the target market for cheap shoebox studio apartments. 

 

But this is all speculation. The only facts we have here are that you've rented a place you find unsuitable for your needs, and somehow you seem to think thats anyone else's fault but your own. 

 

Jesus Christ (again). We're not arguing about the wit of the cohort they're aimed at, we're arguing about the choices that would be made by an experienced cohort who were possessed of some wit. Your dog might not have the sense to drag his basket towards the boiler on a cold night, but he'd probably benefit if you did. 

 

And then you're back to "...you've rented a place...". For your information I'm back in the UK. I spent the summer in Thailand. I'm a college lecturer, so I get long holidays. But no matter how often I tell you, "It ain't about me, it's about a practice" you can't wrap your head around it. 

 

I'm going to to a [second] PhD on, "Thailand's farangs and the obtuseness of self-selected groups". There's probably a Nobel Prize in it. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Craig krup
Typo

[SoiBiker]

Please yourself. But I'm not the one who kept stubbing his toe on the Ikea furniture and then cursing someone else's stupidity.

 

Good luck finding anybody who actually agrees with you, rather than just thinking you rented the wrong apartment. 

[lkn]

2 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

"It ain't about me, it's about a practice"

 

Hear hear! And have you seen the practice at McDonalds? They hand you the food wrapped in paper even though majority of customers eat it on the premises. They should get some cheap plates from IKEA and take a little extra time to make it look nice on the plate so it feels more like a real meal.

 

I just don’t understand the sheer stupidity displayed by these restaurant owners, they would have to spend basically nothing on plates and the place would be so much more classy, and don’t get me started on the missing knife and fork. Have you ever seen a real restaurant make you eat your food with your fingers? Anyone with just a tiny bit of sense would understand that this is not a good way to run a business.

 

[Craig krup]

9 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Please yourself. But I'm not the one who kept stubbing his toe on the Ikea furniture and then cursing someone else's stupidity.

 

Good luck finding anybody who actually agrees with you, rather than just thinking you rented the wrong apartment. 

 

And yet again, you just don't read. You think you do, but you don't. Ikea furniture is precisely what you don't have in these condos. As I said at the start, you get garbage dining room chairs, plastic garden furniture and similar. 

 

And yet again, again, again, we're stuck - like a dog chasing its tail - on "you rented the wrong apartment". For **** sake, how many times. Mee hawng wang mai? Doo hawng dai mai? And you go for a look and yup, there we are - huge bed, no space, no proper desk, no proper seat.......Are you actually able to understand my claim, even if you think it's false? Let's suppose I'd never been in Thailand. If I said, "All the scooters are painted purple" then this would be an empirical claim which would be false. If I said, "Most of the scooters are four strokes and the Honda Wave remains popular" then this would be true. If I'd never been in the country then these statements couldn't be about my experience of the country, although they could still be true or false. They're what we philosophers call - and I don't want to blind you with science - "descriptive". I'm looking to describe the world. I might describe it accurately or inaccurately, but it's a (purported) description. You do see this? You understand the kind of claim it is? You do know that it's possible to do different things with words? 

[SoiBiker]

Let's face it, this isn't about a trend - it's about one apartment. Unless the OP did a survey of a large number of studios, knocking on doors with tape measure in hand, frowning to himself as he notes yet another inappropriate king-size. 

[DipStick]

Thanks Einstein, and the relevance it's. .?

[SoiBiker]

1 minute ago, Craig krup said:

 

And yet again, you just don't read. You think you do, but you don't. Ikea furniture is precisely what you don't have in these condos. As I said at the start, you get garbage dining room chairs, plastic garden furniture and similar. 

 

And yet again, again, again, we're stuck - like a dog chasing its tail - on "you rented the wrong apartment". For **** sake, how many times. Mee hawng wang mai? Doo hawng dai mai? And you go for a look and yup, there we are - huge bed, no space, no proper desk, no proper seat.......Are you actually able to understand my claim, even if you think it's false? Let's suppose I'd never been in Thailand. If I said, "All the scooters are painted purple" then this would be an empirical claim which would be false. If I said, "Most of the scooters are four strokes and the Honda Wave remains popular" then this would be true. If I'd never been in the country then these statements couldn't be about my experience of the country, although they could still be true or false. They're what we philosophers call - and I don't want to blind you with science - "descriptive". I'm looking to describe the world. I might describe it accurately or inaccurately, but it's a (purported) description. You do see this? You understand the kind of claim it is? You do know that it's possible to do different things with words? 

 

Your call to (your own) authority is somewhat undermined by the fact that you're apparently not paid enough for your academic expertise to be able to afford to rent a place where you don't bang your shins on the furniture when you get up to take a leak.

[Craig krup]

5 minutes ago, lkn said:

 

Hear hear! And have you seen the practice at McDonalds? They hand you the food wrapped in paper even though majority of customers eat it on the premises. They should get some cheap plates from IKEA and take a little extra time to make it look nice on the plate so it feels more like a real meal.

 

I just don’t understand the sheer stupidity displayed by these restaurant owners, they would have to spend basically nothing on plates and the place would be so much more classy, and don’t get me started on the missing knife and fork. Have you ever seen a real restaurant make you eat your food with your fingers? Anyone with just a tiny bit of sense would understand that this is not a good way to run a business.

 

 

Not a good example. Micky Ds competes with all other outlets, including those who are classy and charge more. They're efficient in their niche. Thailand's covered in apartment blocks that are inefficient in their niche. That's why they're empty and they'll rent them by the month for the price of ten days. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by Craig krup
Typo

[Craig krup]

1 minute ago, SoiBiker said:

 

Your call to (your own) authority is somewhat undermined by the fact that you're apparently not paid enough for your academic expertise to be able to afford to rent a place where you don't bang your shins on the furniture when you get up to take a leak.

 

I'm glad you've taken a swipe, because that allows me to swipe back. You aren't very bright, are you? I'm paid what a college lecturer in the UK gets paid. It's plenty. I've also got the same sum again coming in from other sources. The reason I've got these resources is because I don't p**s money away. You - again - can't imagine spending less than you can spend, so one day fortune will blow and you'll be wiped away. I'm tweaking my handout on Machiavelli just at the moment, funnily enough. You're Italy, I'm Germany. I prepare when the river is low, you'll be washed away the first time the predictably unpredictable hits you. 

[lkn]

We established the size (~30 sq.m.), but what is the budget?

 

You do realize that IKEA is actually “brandname” in Thailand. You can get furniture much cheaper, which is probably what you are seeing in the rooms you complain about.

 

Have you furthermore actually studied the habits of Thai people? They do pretty much everything sitting on the floor: cook, eat, watch TV, etc. Even in homes with furniture (because there is a farang husband), you’ll still find the Thais preferring their floor mats.

 

The many empty rooms you see are not empty because the bed is too big and there is no armchair.

[SoiBiker]

19 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

I'm glad you've taken a swipe, because that allows me to swipe back. You aren't very bright, are you? I'm paid what a college lecturer in the UK gets paid. It's plenty. I've also got the same sum again coming in from other sources. The reason I've got these resources is because I don't p**s money away. You - again - can't imagine spending less than you can spend, so one day fortune will blow and you'll be wiped away. I'm tweaking my handout on Machiavelli just at the moment, funnily enough. You're Italy, I'm Germany. I prepare when the river is low, you'll be washed away the first time the predictably unpredictable hits you. 

 

Thing is, though, you know nothing about me - mainly because I'm not the one telling my life story in a vain effort to justify an embarrassing thread about a foolish decision. 

 

But seeing as you're so cunning with your money, impress us - what bargain price did you get this hutch for, and where was it?

[LannaGuy]

if ya pay peanuts you get a monkey cage

[Craig krup]

10 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

 

Thing is, though, you know nothing about me - mainly because I'm not the one telling my life story in a vain effort to justify an embarrassing thread about a foolish decision. 

 

But seeing as you're so cunning with your money, impress us - what bargain price did you get this hutch for, and where was it?

 

Holy Jesus Christ almighty, holy motherluvin deity of all that is crunchy and winsome. There's no way with you, is there? This. This. THIS. THIS!

 

No matter what I do you'll never grab the stick, never mind the right end of it. You win. I'm out. If you were a student I'd have failed you by now. You're unteachable. You won't read, but you won't stop "replying" - inverted commas, because none of your "replies" show any awareness of what the other person has offered. 

 

I'm out. You win. Did you go to Stonelaw school in Rutherglen, near Glasgow? I'm quite good at spotting the damage done by different failing institutions, and you scream Stonelaw. 

[SoiBiker]

Yeah. I didn't think you'd put your mouth where your money was.

 

I'm guessing you paid an embarrassing amount over the odds.