ex taking daughter back to thailand WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

[louse1953]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:10 PM, rasg said:

Where does it say that she was encouraged to come to the UK? She probably wanted to come here in the beginning.

 

My only real observation is that the GF came here in November on a six month visa and she has already overstayed.

 

And it is that horrible she prefers the'jungle'.

[theoldgit]

Two nonsensical posts removed.

[Damsurin]

update ,,,,,   been in contact  this week went to see daughter wed , ex said i can see her !! she wants to sent her to english nursuary in the village surin! 4000 baht a  month ? know its knowhere near that a month but said ok to keep the piece , its my daughters  2 nd birthday in sep ive booked flight to go visit her in surin ,, ive said i wantto take baby to a seaside resort for one week she said no ,, nothing to do in surin ,,, i think money will talk!! I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT INTO THIS ive learnt a lot from you all and thanks 

[aquario33]

On 8/8/2016 at 6:19 PM, manfredtillmann said:

if your daughter has dual citizenship (uk / thai) my honest opinion is that you can't do anything. she can leave on her thai passport. and that's it.

been there, done that (aus / ger). it cost me a lot and got me nothing but grieve. move on. please.

rubbish. the daughter is not leaving on her own will. and within the UK she counts as UK citizen, not as Thai one would guess. so far , the father of course have to agree for such intention to leave her home country.otherwise its a case of illegal child deprivation .

[aquario33]

On 8/12/2016 at 4:56 PM, manfredtillmann said:

my #2:

i know you just want to read positive and supporting stuff, but...

you have not stated if your daughter has thai citizen ship i.e. a thai passport.

if she has, no matter dual citizen ship or not, there is NOTHING you - or the authorities - can do to prevent her thai mother taking her out of gb. and everyone else telling you different is just milking you for your money.

has anyone replied to you here who has been through this crap? i have. let it go. even if you succeed - you won't- in years to come this will all back fire on you.

 

your personal bad experience as a german or austrian citizen doesnt mean that for others the same rules may apply.of course the child has UK citizenship as UK descendent from her biological father. 

[manfredtillmann]

28 minutes ago, aquario33 said:

your personal bad experience as a german or austrian citizen doesnt mean that for others the same rules may apply.of course the child has UK citizenship as UK descendent from her biological father. 

 

48 minutes ago, aquario33 said:

rubbish. the daughter is not leaving on her own will. and within the UK she counts as UK citizen, not as Thai one would guess. so far , the father of course have to agree for such intention to leave her home country.otherwise its a case of illegal child deprivation .

i think you will find - that you are wrong.

do you talk about a personal experience or just an assumption on your behalf?

how is the original poster doing? check out #33.

 

to 'Damsurin', hope things go good for you, this can be heart breaking. all the best, mate

cheers, mft

[bobrussell]

The UK authorities can intervene to prevent any child under 16 (much less power for 16 +) where any involved person believes that child is at risk.

Most of the time it is a delay to allow circumstances to be investigated and agreement reached. I have no doubt this applies to non-UK children as well but clearly that complicates the matter.

I assume from the last post that he child is back in Thailand. The family court may well have decided it was appropriate for the child to travel back to Thailand anyway. The idea is that the child's best interest is considered and it does not always go the way one or other parent wishes. These are tough situations!

 

If in doubt try to keep communication open and continue to maintain contact as much as you can. The internet allows very regular contact. Mobile internet seems better in Thailand than the UK!

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

OP if you pay maintenance and the ex mis-uses it the shame is on her, if you however don't pay maintenance the shame is on you.

[bark]

On 9/8/2559 at 3:34 PM, Damsurin said:

thanks for all your advice ,,, i went to see lawyer yesterday morning and was told it was going to cost at least £3000 pounds to put a stop n her taking the baby out of the uk ,, he wanted £1000 on account yesterday ! just to start the ball rolling ,, he said it would cost several thousand pounds at least ??  crazy  i only want best for my baby .. i rang the mother yesterday , she was alone and talked differantly to when the other thai women are there .. i offered her money to keep the baby here , she said NO i offered £5000 pounds as a starter she still said NO ,, she said the baby isnt going to the jungle which i find hard to believe ?? she and the father of her first baby have never takien care of the 10 year old ,, in fact i sent money to the grand parents every month for a child which isnty mine . ive thought long and hard about this and i am going to put money in my babys uk bank every month and hen shes 18 she will have a nice nest egg 

im not supporting the lazy whisky drinking vermin up in the jungle while i work hard here in the uk

ill leave the ball in the exs corner and lets see what happens when the family start putting pressure on the ex to find money for 2 kids ?

ive took care of ex for 4 years  now its her turn !!

AGAIN THANKS ALL ill keep you posted 

Does it come down to money ? To fight for your kid ?

[Baerboxer]

On 8/8/2016 at 6:19 PM, manfredtillmann said:

if your daughter has dual citizenship (uk / thai) my honest opinion is that you can't do anything. she can leave on her thai passport. and that's it.

been there, done that (aus / ger). it cost me a lot and got me nothing but grieve. move on. please.

 

Not correct - for the UK anyway. Doesn't matter if she has two or more passports. The key is to go to a solicitor and apply to the court for an Emergency Residence Order as poster BobRussell advises. A Court Order is necessary and will prohibit taking the child out of England & Wales. 

 

The OP will need to prepare his case to show that it is in the child's best interests to remain in the UK with him. He will need to convince the court it's in his daughter's best interests to stay with him to win custody.

 

Good luck.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

22 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

OP if you pay maintenance and the ex mis-uses it the shame is on her, if you however don't pay maintenance the shame is on you.

 

No it's not. He can make arrangements to save for his daughter's future and / or provide things rather than simply giving cash over.

 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Damsurin said:

update ,,,,,   been in contact  this week went to see daughter wed , ex said i can see her !! she wants to sent her to english nursuary in the village surin! 4000 baht a  month ? know its knowhere near that a month but said ok to keep the piece , its my daughters  2 nd birthday in sep ive booked flight to go visit her in surin ,, ive said i wantto take baby to a seaside resort for one week she said no ,, nothing to do in surin ,,, i think money will talk!! I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT INTO THIS ive learnt a lot from you all and thanks 

 

[Baerboxer]

It's a shame she acted so quickly and got your daughter out of the UK. Seems like the 3 "friends" had some experience - change the tickets, get a quick flight out. 

 

4k per month is way over the top for the nursery in Surin. I'm afraid this is just the start. The whole family will now see the chance of a meal ticket and enrichment scheme. 

 

It's so annoying at the cost of legal services in the UK.  A old friend of mine is a solicitor in the Midlands who specializes in family court matters. No idea what his costs are but he's part of a progressive law firm. But looks like you've missed that option now.

 

Real feel for you.

[recom273]

My first port of call would be your citizens advice bureau to get some honest free advice.

 

i can see your angle on putting cash away for the baby, 18 years in the UK gives you a slightly better start in life than Thailand (IMO)

 

what at a tough situation, I feel for you.

[Baerboxer]

On 8/12/2016 at 4:56 PM, manfredtillmann said:

my #2:

i know you just want to read positive and supporting stuff, but...

you have not stated if your daughter has thai citizen ship i.e. a thai passport.

if she has, no matter dual citizen ship or not, there is NOTHING you - or the authorities - can do to prevent her thai mother taking her out of gb. and everyone else telling you different is just milking you for your money.

has anyone replied to you here who has been through this crap? i have. let it go. even if you succeed - you won't- in years to come this will all back fire on you.

 

 

Mate, you have zero understanding of the law of England & Wales and what the authorities can and can't do.

How many passports and what country they are from have little to do with it. 

[manfredtillmann]

23 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not correct - for the UK anyway. Doesn't matter if she has two or more passports. The key is to go to a solicitor and apply to the court for an Emergency Residence Order as poster BobRussell advises. A Court Order is necessary and will prohibit taking the child out of England & Wales. 

 

The OP will need to prepare his case to show that it is in the child's best interests to remain in the UK with him. He will need to convince the court it's in his daughter's best interests to stay with him to win custody.

 

Good luck.

which will get you back to the context of my initial post. sure - you can fight this - but you won't win! it is going to cost you loads of money and, much more importantly, loads of raised hopes and expectations and disappointments.

in the end, you will gain nothing. your children, indoctrinated by their mother, will hate you despite the fact that you shelled out 80% of you income to them - which your ex probably used to buy perfume or sex- toys.

have you been there?

if not, don't comment.

[dotpoom]

Since neither of you have outright custody I think I'm correct in saying Mothers wishes would be considered first as to what happens to her daughter. You have definitely taken the right course of action though (I suggest you consider the heartbreak caused to the Mother, as it would to yourself, were she to lose her daughter, when solving this problem).

    God Bless and I hope it all turns out well for the 3 of you.

[LukKrueng]

On 8/9/2016 at 3:34 PM, Damsurin said:

thanks for all your advice ,,, i went to see lawyer yesterday morning and was told it was going to cost at least £3000 pounds to put a stop n her taking the baby out of the uk ,, he wanted £1000 on account yesterday ! just to start the ball rolling ,, he said it would cost several thousand pounds at least ??  crazy  i only want best for my baby .. i rang the mother yesterday , she was alone and talked differantly to when the other thai women are there .. i offered her money to keep the baby here , she said NO i offered £5000 pounds as a starter she still said NO ,, she said the baby isnt going to the jungle which i find hard to believe ?? she and the father of her first baby have never takien care of the 10 year old ,, in fact i sent money to the grand parents every month for a child which isnty mine . ive thought long and hard about this and i am going to put money in my babys uk bank every month and hen shes 18 she will have a nice nest egg 

im not supporting the lazy whisky drinking vermin up in the jungle while i work hard here in the uk

ill leave the ball in the exs corner and lets see what happens when the family start putting pressure on the ex to find money for 2 kids ?

ive took care of ex for 4 years  now its her turn !!

AGAIN THANKS ALL ill keep you posted 

 

I don't know if you met your gf in Thailand while just on a short visit or long term living here, but obviously you don't know much about Thai people and their way of life, nor about the country itself (all jungles???) and you don't have any respect to Thai people. By your 2nd post it also seems you don't really care about your child either - judging by the ease you gave up on her and "letting her mother take her back to the jungles...

 

As for the Thai law - if a couple has not been registered as married BEFORE the child is born, ONLY the mother has parenting rights. For the unmarried biological father to get parental rights the couple have to go through court.

 

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

which will get you back to the context of my initial post. sure - you can fight this - but you won't win! it is going to cost you loads of money and, much more importantly, loads of raised hopes and expectations and disappointments.

in the end, you will gain nothing. your children, indoctrinated by their mother, will hate you despite the fact that you shelled out 80% of you income to them - which your ex probably used to buy perfume or sex- toys.

have you been there?

if not, don't comment.

 

Don't tell me what to do and what not to do. Very unwise attitude.

 

UK Family courts always act in what they consider to be the best interests of the child. Not the parents, or what any of those involved want necessarily. Normally they prefer and seek to keep children, especially young ones with the mother. If the child is old enough, then the wishes and views of the child will be independently sought and assessed and taken into consideration. It's not a game about win or loose. The mother;s background and circumstances would also be assessed.

 

You aren't from the UK, know nothing of UK law, but keep telling others. Forum rules prohibit the posting of the appropriate noun.

[4MyEgo]

On 09/08/2016 at 6:34 PM, Damsurin said:

thanks for all your advice ,,, i went to see lawyer yesterday morning and was told it was going to cost at least £3000 pounds to put a stop n her taking the baby out of the uk ,, he wanted £1000 on account yesterday ! just to start the ball rolling ,, he said it would cost several thousand pounds at least ??  crazy  i only want best for my baby .. i rang the mother yesterday , she was alone and talked differantly to when the other thai women are there .. i offered her money to keep the baby here , she said NO i offered £5000 pounds as a starter she still said NO ,, she said the baby isnt going to the jungle which i find hard to believe ?? she and the father of her first baby have never takien care of the 10 year old ,, in fact i sent money to the grand parents every month for a child which isnty mine . ive thought long and hard about this and i am going to put money in my babys uk bank every month and hen shes 18 she will have a nice nest egg 

im not supporting the lazy whisky drinking vermin up in the jungle while i work hard here in the uk

ill leave the ball in the exs corner and lets see what happens when the family start putting pressure on the ex to find money for 2 kids ?

ive took care of ex for 4 years  now its her turn !!

AGAIN THANKS ALL ill keep you posted 

 

I feel for you, this is a common occurrence and when there are kids involved it's a life time pain until they reach the magical age of 18.

 

As for jungle, well, your entitled to your opinion, the kid in my opinion would be better off raised in Thailand as opposed to a single dad, e.g. unless you are prepared to sacrifice your life to raise the kid, single parenting is exhausting to say the least, that is why woman are more suited at it.

 

My advice would be let the kid return home to Thailand, try to remain friends with the X, not easy at times, as I am sure she will be demanding with send me money, although its cheap to raise kids here, that's if its not spent on other things and not the kid.

 

As for the solicitors and courts, forget it, move forward, come and go to the jungle a couple of times a year via Phuket to visit the kid, not forgetting to enjoy yourself, life is too short.

 

The last paragraph is if the X permits you visiting the child and not busting them, no dount the grandparents will be raising the kid/s while she is back at work, where ever that might be. 

[rogeroc]

I tend to agree with the last Poster. My strong suspicion is that if you go to the Courts to try and fight this you will be fighting a battle that you will not win. You may well feel completely powerless in the fight (even if you do it yourself and it costs very little financially) and this feeling of being powerless can lead to illness and depression. Your feelings of wanting access to see your child will be confused with your desire for retribution with the mother. Protect your own health number one and try to keep contact with your child (however irregular) Who knows how the future will turn out!

[natway09]

Birth certificate UK or Thai?

Child born where?

You may have a problem as if she really wants the child back in Thailand hard for you to stop

[ka12]

She (baby) birth in Thailand - she are Thai first and forever, have international law for children, it's the court Thai can decide.

If mother want make her guardian in court in Thailand, you can't do nothing.

It's my french embassy told me, and on website french embassy have pages about this international law.

Good luck...

Edited August 22, 2016 by ka12

[zd1]

OP sorry about your situation.

In the UK you will probably not be able to get legal aid for this and solicitors are very expensive anywhere from £150-£600 per hour it is not unusual for them to ask you to put £1000-£1500 on account before they will do anything.

A place I got some good free advice for a recent court case that I had to go through in the UK was the lawforum you can ask a question for free and you will get some good advice about what to do. A lot of the people who comment on that forum are former law professionals and people going through similar situations, my case wasn't the same as yours but I got a lot of honest direct advice about what to do from a retired barrister who knew what he was talking about.

I would suggest you post your problem there and see what advice you get it is free so there is nothing to lose.

Edited August 22, 2016 by zd1

[SOTIRIOS]

....turns out we are the dumb ones....

 

...they have been getting their way for 50 years at least....

 

 

[bobrussell]

The Thai courts have no effect on UK law. The rights of all parties will be considered by the UK courts (if child is in the UK) and Thai courts if in Thailand. Generally the decisions of courts will be respected by the other but it remains the child's interest that is paramount. It may well be that the UK court mightl decide in a mothers favour if that is thought best. International law is only binding where there is a treaty committing a country to it. As I understand it there is no agreement between the UK and Thailand when it comes to the Hague Convention.  

 

If the child is now in Thailand then should a custody battle happen it will be in that court.

[jacksam]

OP is very aware of relationships now. Pity did not consider any possible problems prior to becoming a parent. Strange as states he supported previous child for some years. The mother will be given custody and also be allowed to return to Thailand with child. Best course would be to work at trying to put in place a working relationship with mother and support daughter. There are ways to do this other than just sending money. School fees etc are examples.

[khunPer]

On 8/8/2016 at 3:51 PM, cornishcarlos said:

 

Reading is not your strong point, obviously... !!

The OP is in the U.K, as are his girlfriend and their daughter.

 

OP, please let us know what the police and solicitor have to say on the matter..

Do UK acknowledge a Thai Birth Certificate without Legalization..?

[Dumbastheycome]

Is there  any  debate   about  who gets  the  ferret?

[AlexRich]

If the child is in Thailand and is a Thai national I don't think a UK court can do anything, and a Thai court is more likely to favour the mother. A heart breaking situation for anyone who wants to be involved and influence his daughters future. I guess the practical solution, if you want to call it that, is to maintain reasonable relations with the mother without putting a strain on your finances ... but don't allow yourself to be bled dry, and all the very best.