Mariage Visa/wife's Shop.

[zzz9]

So if u combine both options (work permit + extension of stay) what is the minimum income to be reported? as for work permit only its 350K baht...

[zzz9]

OK I caculate it like this/correct me if I am wrong.

Shop income: 480K

480K * 70% (shop) =336K

480K - 336K = 144K

144K - 60K(merried) = 84K (which is tax exempt bracket.)

Personal tax owed is zero.

Conclusions:

--------------

-Not pay tax. (but still dont know with this ceculation how much this will cost ...).

-Can apply for Work-permit.

-Can apply and extend 1 year visa based on mariage.

Am I right?

[Cyberstar]

You've calculated personal income tax of a profit of 144 K, which (on its own) doesn't suffice for a visa extension ...

Let's say all income is generated within Thailand and you want to evaluate the personal income tax to be paid in order for you to qualify for a one year visa extension... You have two situations:

1) You don't have a WP ... This means your wife must have a personal income of 480 K and can only deduct what applies to her... yielding a monthly tax of about 2,400 as mentioned by Sunbelt.

2) You have a WP ... This means you and your wife can split the 480 K as preferred. E.g. one partee "books" an income at the max of what yields zero tax - the other pays the tax applying to the remainder --- the main difference is that you now can use two sets of standard deductions. (The difference more than pays the WP-fees).

[Sunbelt Asia]

So if u combine both options (work permit + extension of stay) what is the minimum income to be reported? as for work permit only its 350K baht...

Its two different items.... the 350K is the employer top line ( gross income) This is for the work permit. You do not need an extension of stay permit to get a work permit. You can simply have a one year multiple entry visa and not even worry about the income required for a extension of stay based on marriage. Yesterday's exercise was to just get you legal to work.

However to answer your question to get legal with a extension of stay permit as well.

The extension of stay based on marriage for new applicants after Oct 1st 2006) requires 40,000 Baht per month.

If you are getting 15,000 Baht per month, your wife needs to make 25,000 Baht per month.

This means the shop has to do 1,000,000 Baht per year. You then can deduct 70% under Thai tax law as deductions, without any receipts. (Remember this is for a self employed shop…sole proprietor)

Deductions of 30,000 Baht as a single taxpayer (you will be claiming yourself on a separate tax filing)

Net assessable Income is 270,000 Baht

Total personal income tax is 17,000 Baht (1-100,000 is 0%, 100,001- 270,000 is 10%)

Your personal tax would be

Salary per month of 15,000 Baht times 12 = 180,000 Baht

Less for expense for taxpayer 40% of income but no more than 60K) 60,000

Less for Single taxpayer 30,000

Total is 90,000 Baht

Tax owed is zero

In this case, in order than for you to get a work permit and an extension of stay based on marriage. The tax would be 17,000 Baht per year and you would both would show proof of a combined income of 40K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[smartecosse]

now please send Sunbelt their consultancy fee

[bentrein]

In my case, how can I be working when my wife does not pay me salary?

Forgive me for commenting on something all the way back from the top, and forgive me if it's been said already, but I couldn't find it. In Thailand, working without a salary is still considered working!

Just after the tsunami hit, the Thai government threatened volunteers helping out there with deportation for not having a work permit! "Only people registered with recognised aide services will be given a work permit, if they apply. All others will be arrested." This is what the former government stated. Need I say more?

[zzz9]

So the solution for me is that as I have 1 year non 'O' nultiple visa based on mariage. (from my country).

that will expired on january 2008. is just to go for the lowest option 350K and get the work permit.

then few months before I'll go and update it for higher income and I will qualified to apply for mariage visa at bkk (as after the update we'll have together income of 40K a month together..) .

that way I save the expenses of 17K a year that not necessery for the current situation that I have visa.

Good way or wrong?what do u think guys?

[kriswillems]

So the solution for me is that as I have 1 year non 'O' nultiple visa based on mariage. (from my country).

that will expired on january 2008. is just to go for the lowest option 350K and get the work permit.

then few months before I'll go and update it for higher income and I will qualified to apply for mariage visa at bkk (as after the update we'll have together income of 40K a month together..) .

that way I save the expenses of 17K a year that not necessery for the current situation that I have visa.

Good way or wrong?what do u think guys?

For your rather small business I would use the following numbers.

You could be paid 25K per month

Your wife would need 15K net per month

Her gross sales would need to be 50K per month (taking 70% deduction)

You would be paying 11K income tax per year

Your wife would would be paying 5K income tax per year

Gross sales tax would be 9K per year

Total: 25K

In sunbelts example income tax was 17K and gross sales tax 15K.

Total 32K

Edited November 23, 2006 by kriswillems

[zzz9]

and with this kind of expenses (32K a year) related to couple (falang&thai) that owns a small shop (40-50K a month.

its not worth it and can bring the biz down (a lot!) and loose the ability to give a good prices vs the competition.

Which leaves me the falang to continue with non 'o' multiple every 15 months to go to some thai consulte outside thailand to get a new 1.

and of course will never get PR .

So its just the work permit that can solve it without paying money(tax).

great!

[thai_narak]

just now i realize that i have to change my plans in the future. i'm beginning to figure that if a foreigner do not have enough money in thailand he is not welcome to stay whether he has a family or not. notice that i'm using only "he" and not "he/she" because thai men have more rights for thier foriegn wives. by the way, this they say is equal rights.

[kriswillems]

The new police order is certainly not a good thing for young married couples that have not been using the 400K rule before. It's very hard to guarantee your income will be 40K/month until you're 50.

Going is on visa runs is not much cheaper than paxing tax on income you might not really have.

Airline ticket to singapore : 7000 Baht

Multiple entry o visa: 5000 baht

3 visa runs: 6000 Baht

All together: 18K baht + a lot of worries.

Suppose you can only prove 20K it might be smart to find another 20K and just pay tax on that. For instance your wife could give some rooms of the house for rent and she might be getting 20K from that.

Just an example:

Your wife is making 20K /month as an employee.

Your wife gives property for rent (for instance to her parents) and gets 20K/month from that.

You're not working.

She'll be paying 18800 baht tax/year.

You'll not be paying any tax.

You'll get a 1 year extention.

There are many solutions to get 40K/month (even if you don't really have it). The best solutions are those solutions where each of the partners gets an amount of about 20K/month.

Thailand will become the only country in the world where are corrupt in order to pay MORE tax.

Edited November 24, 2006 by kriswillems

[rainman]

out of curiosity, what's the tax rate you have to pay anyways in thailand? 14% right? so assuming she's making 40,000 per month, you would have to pay 5,600 baht tax per month to qualify for that visa category, right?

[rainman]

btw. Sunbelt is giving great free advice here in the forums. if you need your visa problem resolved professionally, i would definitely recommend going with them. i know i will if i need help and their phone number is always on my mobile if i need it

[kriswillems]

the formula to calculate the personal income tax can be found on:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

If you're an employee and your partner works too and you get 40K/month, you'll be paying:

(((40,000 * 12) - 60,000 - 30,000 -100000)*0.1)/12 = 2417 baht/month

[rainman]

say you get monthly income from an overseas company where you're a co-owner, without working for it, that is taxable too?

[rainman]

the formula to calculate the personal income tax can be found on:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

If you're an employee and your partner works too and you get 40K/month, you'll be paying:

(((40,000 * 12) - 60,000 - 30,000 -100000)*0.1)/12 = 2417 baht/month

that's for farangs and thais alike, right? "spouse allowance" is 30,000 Baht deductible. so you can actually deduct money you give your wife for shopping?

[rainman]

so assuming your wife makes 40,000 per month and she pays 2000 baht per month tax, she could even deduct 30,000 per year in spouse allowance? meaning zero tax..

[kriswillems]

so assuming your wife makes 40,000 per month and she pays 2000 baht per month tax, she could even deduct 30,000 per year in spouse allowance? meaning zero tax..

Thais and foreigners pay the same income tax.

If one of the two partners has zero income the other partner may use a 30000 baht spouse allowance (else not). The income tax would be then:

(((40000*12) - 60000 -30000 -30000 -100000)*0,1)/12 = 2167 Baht/month

In other words, the spouse allowance in not subtracted from your tax, it's substracted from your income. You'll still be paying tax although a bit less.

Most countries have a double taxation agreement with Thailand. That means that you either pay tax on your income in your home country or in Thailand but not both. Most double taxations agreements and the details of which tax needs to be paid where can be found online. It's complicated and if you're talking about a lot of money it might be smart to seek for advice of an expert.

PS. In some cases the double taxation agreements is more a disadvantage than an advantage. This is the reason why some foreigners keep an official recidence in their home country, and they pay tax in their home countries just as if they would be living there.

Edited November 25, 2006 by kriswillems

[Sunbelt Asia]

So the solution for me is that as I have 1 year non 'O' nultiple visa based on mariage. (from my country).

that will expired on january 2008. is just to go for the lowest option 350K and get the work permit.

then few months before I'll go and update it for higher income and I will qualified to apply for mariage visa at bkk (as after the update we'll have together income of 40K a month together..) .

that way I save the expenses of 17K a year that not necessery for the current situation that I have visa.

Good way or wrong?what do u think guys?

For your rather small business I would use the following numbers.

You could be paid 25K per month

Your wife would need 15K net per month

Her gross sales would need to be 50K per month (taking 70% deduction)

You would be paying 11K income tax per year

Your wife would would be paying 5K income tax per year

Gross sales tax would be 9K per year

Total: 25K

In sunbelts example income tax was 17K and gross sales tax 15K.

Total 32K

How did you get that?

The total tax is 17,000 Baht See the post below( already posted above)

Its two different items.... the 350K is the employer top line ( gross income) This is for the work permit. You do not need an extension of stay permit to get a work permit. You can simply have a one year multiple entry visa and not even worry about the income required for a extension of stay based on marriage. Yesterday's exercise was to just get you legal to work.

However to answer your question to get legal with a extension of stay permit as well.

The extension of stay based on marriage for new applicants after Oct 1st 2006) requires 40,000 Baht per month.

If you are getting 15,000 Baht per month, your wife needs to make 25,000 Baht per month.

This means the shop has to do 1,000,000 Baht per year. You then can deduct 70% under Thai tax law as deductions, without any receipts. (Remember this is for a self employed shop…sole proprietor)

Deductions of 30,000 Baht as a single taxpayer (you will be claiming yourself on a separate tax filing)

Net assessable Income is 270,000 Baht

Total personal income tax is 17,000 Baht (1-100,000 is 0%, 100,001- 270,000 is 10%)

Your personal tax would be

Salary per month of 15,000 Baht times 12 = 180,000 Baht

Less for expense for taxpayer 40% of income but no more than 60K) 60,000

Less for Single taxpayer 30,000

Total is 90,000 Baht

Tax owed is zero

In this case, in order than for you to get a work permit and an extension of stay based on marriage. The tax would be 17,000 Baht per year and you would both would show proof of a combined income of 40K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

No gross sales tax of 15,000 Baht exist as you are pointing out. It is 17K to the wife and that is it in this case. Remember this is a sole proprietorship, so the wife only gets taxed on net income once unlike a Limited Company.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[zzz9]

thanks Sunbelt I started to loose hope here..

Your ceculation make it much more worth it and 17K a year its not much at all for this arrangment.

though I hope that in my city(not tourist city) they will not roll their eyes and Will accept this statement and ceculate it same as u .

I'll try it in january 2008. untill then I dont want to spend this money for nothing as I have visa and paid for it already.

I'll do just the work permit (the minimum of 350K a month to meet the requirments of the work-permit itself.)...

[Sunbelt Asia]

I'll do just the work permit (the minimum of 350K a month to meet the requirments of the work-permit itself.)...

Good job in getting legal.

Happy Holidays.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[kriswillems]

Sunbelt,

The information of the gross sales tax I got from this WEB-site:

http://www.thailand-accounting.com/tax.html

Operators whose gross earnings from the domestic sale of goods and services exceed Thai Baht 600,000.-, but are less than Thai Baht 1,200,000.- per year, can choose between paying a gross turnover tax of 1.5 % or the normal VAT. However, operators paying the gross turnover tax may not offset this tax by charging VAT to their customers in any step of production

This web-site sates the same:

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/taxvat.htm

If your wifes turnover is 350K and you're paid 15K/month, you'll never reach the 40K common income limit required for a visa. If you've 70% expenses on 350K your wifes net income is 105K/year or 8750 Baht/month. Your common income would be 23750 Baht/month, so less than 40K.

So, there's a very high chance your turnover would need to be higher than 600K/year. And if the 2 web-sites are correct you'll be paying gross turnover tax of 1.5%.

Is the information about the gross sales tax outdated?

Edited November 27, 2006 by kriswillems

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt,

The information of the gross sales tax I got from this WEB-site:

http://www.thailand-accounting.com/tax.html

Operators whose gross earnings from the domestic sale of goods and services exceed Thai Baht 600,000.-, but are less than Thai Baht 1,200,000.- per year, can choose between paying a gross turnover tax of 1.5 % or the normal VAT. However, operators paying the gross turnover tax may not offset this tax by charging VAT to their customers in any step of production

This web-site sates the same:

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/taxvat.htm

If your wifes turnover is 350K and you're paid 15K/month, you'll never reach the 40K common income limit required for a visa. If you've 70% expenses on 350K your wifes net income is 105K/year or 8750 Baht/month. Your common income would be 23750 Baht/month, so less than 40K.

So, there's a very high chance your turnover would need to be higher than 600K/year. And if the 2 web-sites are correct you'll be paying gross turnover tax of 1.5%.

Is the information about the gross sales tax outdated?

Yes this information is out dated (gross sales tax no longer exist). By the way, 7% Vat in fact starts at sales of 1,800,000 in the year.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[kriswillems]

Sunbelt,

The information of the gross sales tax I got from this WEB-site:

http://www.thailand-accounting.com/tax.html

Operators whose gross earnings from the domestic sale of goods and services exceed Thai Baht 600,000.-, but are less than Thai Baht 1,200,000.- per year, can choose between paying a gross turnover tax of 1.5 % or the normal VAT. However, operators paying the gross turnover tax may not offset this tax by charging VAT to their customers in any step of production

This web-site sates the same:

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/taxvat.htm

If your wifes turnover is 350K and you're paid 15K/month, you'll never reach the 40K common income limit required for a visa. If you've 70% expenses on 350K your wifes net income is 105K/year or 8750 Baht/month. Your common income would be 23750 Baht/month, so less than 40K.

So, there's a very high chance your turnover would need to be higher than 600K/year. And if the 2 web-sites are correct you'll be paying gross turnover tax of 1.5%.

Is the information about the gross sales tax outdated?

Yes this information is out dated (gross sales tax no longer exist). By the way, 7% Vat in fact starts at sales of 1,800,000 in the year.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks Sunbelt. I am impressed by your wide knowledge. It's very hard to find up-to-date information on the internet. Next year in July I'll be moving to Thailand. I'll need to get a WP (for working in my wifes business) and I need to get a 1 year visa extention. My wife will be self-employed with a turnover of 1 million baht. I will arrive in Thailand with a multiple entry non-immogrant-o visa. Do you also offer legal services in Chonburi province or can you advice us another office that can assist us (with WP application and 1 year extention?).

PS. even a thai government web-site still talk about the gross turnover tax:

http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/taxation.asp

or

http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/non-resident/v...7&M_CODE=49

Edited November 27, 2006 by kriswillems

[Sunbelt Asia]

Thanks Sunbelt. I am impressed by your wide knowledge. It's very hard to find up-to-date information on the internet. Next year in July I'll be moving to Thailand. I'll need to get a WP (for working in my wifes business) and I need to get a 1 year visa extention. My wife will be self-employed with a turnover of 1 million baht. I will arrive in Thailand with a multiple entry non-immogrant-o visa. Do you also offer legal services in Chonburi province or can you advice us another office that can assist us (with WP application and 1 year extention?).

You are welcome.

Yes we have a office in the Chonburi Province. The office phone # is 038-412-828

One problem with the Labor Dept in Chonburi is they have their own rules. A heads up, because of “rules” it is not smooth like BKK. Still as problem solvers, we have found ways that we have made it as painless as possible.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[zzz9]

Dear sunbelt,

Few days a go u sent these rules in the forum..

Could you please send the link (IN THAI) of the rules/thai law below?

Means,thai law website which its there or thai document support it?

"Article 6. Regarding considering issuing the work permit under Article 4 to foreigners who apply for permission to work for a natural person employer who is not one having the character under Article 5, permission may be granted according to the following criteria:

(1) Foreigners working for an employer earning an income from business operation in the past year cycle or from the current year: for every Seven hundred thousand baht earned by the employer, one foreign employee may be employed but no more than maximum three foreign employee may be employed.

(2) Foreigners working for an employer who has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one foreign employee may be employed for every fifty thousand baht income tax the employer paid. Maximum foreign employee hired may not exceed 3 persons.

(3) Foreigners working for an employer having Thai employees: one person may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.

Article 7. The criterion under paragraph one shall be reduced by one half in the case where the permit applicant alien has a Thai spouse in a lawfully registered marriage and in open cohabitation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com "

[kriswillems]

Dear sunbelt,

Few days a go u sent these rules in the forum..

Could you please send the link (IN THAI) of the rules/thai law below?

Means,thai law website which its there or thai document support it?

"Article 6. Regarding considering issuing the work permit under Article 4 to foreigners who apply for permission to work for a natural person employer who is not one having the character under Article 5, permission may be granted according to the following criteria:

(1) Foreigners working for an employer earning an income from business operation in the past year cycle or from the current year: for every Seven hundred thousand baht earned by the employer, one foreign employee may be employed but no more than maximum three foreign employee may be employed.

(2) Foreigners working for an employer who has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one foreign employee may be employed for every fifty thousand baht income tax the employer paid. Maximum foreign employee hired may not exceed 3 persons.

(3) Foreigners working for an employer having Thai employees: one person may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.

Article 7. The criterion under paragraph one shall be reduced by one half in the case where the permit applicant alien has a Thai spouse in a lawfully registered marriage and in open cohabitation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com "

Here you can find the work permit regulations in Thai:

http://www.kittilaw.com/thai/workpermit.htm

But be aware, every province interpretes the rules in their own way.

It might be better to get some legal assistance.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Dear sunbelt,

Few days a go u sent these rules in the forum..

Could you please send the link (IN THAI) of the rules/thai law below?

Means,thai law website which its there or thai document support it?

Sorry, no such Thai link exist.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[zzz9]

Update.

My wife went to the labour office and they just laugh..

Obviously they dont know the thai law..or they dont want to know.

they say only if its company and pay a lot of taxs....

so...now I'm in more risk as the wife already pointed it this issue.

and...what can I do ? ....

[Roger Dodger]

Dear members I want your advice and SUNBELT advice please.

I have mariage visa for 1 year.

my wife have a small minimart and I stay in the house that include the shop of course.

I have tabian-ban of this house (lease 30 years) which means I resident in this house.

My legal question is:

I help my wife on daily basis as she is my wife and we everyday at the shop running the biz together.

Is it ok from the law eyes? (husband helps wife even no work permit..as she is my wife!!).

And practicly(real life) is something like police come to ask questions and I am in troubles??

I know I can solve it by register company on my name but its really hers on her name and this business not worth it to register company and pay all the taxs.

My opinion is that I am ok (It is my wife..I help/It is my house-have tabian-ban/I have visa to stay in the country-Mariage visa.).

So your opinion pls..

Dear members I want your advice and SUNBELT advice please.

I have mariage visa for 1 year.

my wife have a small minimart and I stay in the house that include the shop of course.

I have tabian-ban of this house (lease 30 years) which means I resident in this house.

My legal question is:

I help my wife on daily basis as she is my wife and we everyday at the shop running the biz together.

Is it ok from the law eyes? (husband helps wife even no work permit..as she is my wife!!).

No

I know I can solve it by register company on my name but its really hers on her name and this business not worth it to register company and pay all the taxs

Get a work permit with your wife being the natural employer. She only has to have paid personal income tax of 25,000 Baht last year, or had a net income of 350,000 Baht in sales last year or employs 2 Thais and she can hire you. Your salary could be 15,000 Baht per month and you don't even need to pay any personal income tax. You will just need to file the PND #1 ( monthly withholding tax every month) with zero tax owed. Your job could be an Personal Assistant to your wife at the store.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Msometimes helping her sell (as cashier).

because this is ILLEGAL and when someone that is jealous of your success reports you you will be in the Sh*t as they say in some places

but hey carry on, oh and lets hope they do you for noy paying the correct amount of tax as well

as you are a guest in a foreign country why can't you just comply with the laws

is it really that hard for you to do??

I think we should be realistic here. The tax thing is my wife's problem becasue it is her business and I already warned her about this but she said that every shop in Thailand are doing the same thing and she can point each and every shop around our vicinity who are not paying the right amount of taxes when the tax revenue department comes investigating.

The point is, am I really involved in this mess? Do you really expect me to lock myself in our room while my wife is selling in the shop? Please, before you reply try to understand one's situation before insulting anyone...

i wasnt aware that i was insulting anyone so apologoes for that

However how would you feel in your own homeland about ILLEGAL workers - married or not??

would you still have the same opinion that it wouldn't really matter?

I think Sunbelt Asia said it best (as usual). GET A JOB MATE. Have your wife hire you if none else will.

As for the rest of us... I know times are tough with the new visa regulations, but we gotta stick together. I just got my ThaiVisa Polo shirt yesterday and i feel good wearing it. We have to treat other members with respect and avoid insulting them when we don't see I to I. We're all in the same boat, folks, let's not rock it!