Dangers of Cycling in Thailand

[paulsingle]

On 06/10/2016 at 10:56 PM, bobfish said:

Paul, welcome to Phuket. ride safe. And: Hopefully the rain will stop soon! 

Thanks to Bobfish and other cyclists for the encouraging posts.

Anyone who is not a cyclist and doesn't like cycling please ignore this post.

Now I have a few kilometres under my belt I can offer my view of cycling in Phuket.

I accept that the attitudes to cyclists from other road users range from considerate through indifferent to hostile. This is the same in the UK but in Phuket it's weighted a little more on the hostile side.

I have no way of transporting my bike other than pedalling it so every time I go out I use one of Phuket's main arteries.

I defer to all motorised vehicles even when I should not have to. I keep as far left as I can safely do.

Chalong Circle doesn't frighten me anymore. I can always get around it safely and without annoying anyone. I do tend to shelter beside other vehicles on the circle.

Out of Chalong there are some great rides. Lumpy riding around Nai Harn/Prom Thep or flatter rides around Cape Panwa.

I've only had dogs chase me twice. Once I stopped and invited the dogs closer at which point they lost interest and walked off. On the other occasion I wasn't sure if I was going to get bitten so I pedalled away and out ran the dog.

My thanks to villagefarang for tips on this one.

I'm loving cycling here. I've seen a couple of big road cycling events while I've been cycling. The number of cycles on the road are definitely on the up. This should lead to improved attitudes to cycling and cleaner and quieter roads - ok, I can dream can't I?

[StreetCowboy]

Bumping this topic ... I was inches away from doing the same to the car in front last weekend.

 

I was following the car slightly closer than I ought, more or less in line with his centreline.  I was riding comfortably along with my hand on the handlebar.  He slowed down, just as he passed over a deep pothole in the middle of the road.  He wasn't affected, but I didn't want to change position and hit the brakes at the same time as I hit the pothole, so I stood up to cope with the pothole, and luckily he accelerated again just as I was inches from his bumper.

 

Moral / Recommendation:

Don't get too close, and it's probably safer to ride in the tyre tracks of the car ahead if you're close, rather than in the middle of the lane.  That way, he sweeps the road for you, and you can see any big bumps in the road from the movement of his vehicle.  Also, you can swerve to the side of him if he stops suddenly.

 

SC

[Stevemercer]

I've been on a few organised bike rides out of Khon Kaen and Mahasarakham recently, up to 120 km. These events are always very well organised with plenty of food, people handing out water in the main villages, hundreds of police/volunteers blocking off every side street, support vehicles etc. etc.

 

Recreational cycling will only continue to grow and grow in Thailand.

[rebo]

Just safely arrived back home from a 1'700 km bike tour from Surat to Chiang Mai. Having hereby completed 60'000 bicycle kms in SEA, most of them in Thailand, I can only resume that Thailand is very safe for cycling as long as one follows the local understanding of joining traffic e.g. not insisting on probably written laws but nevertheless hardly ever will be manifested in Thai mindset (driving on wrong side of the roads, a two-wheeler is a full traffic member  ...).
In general I have experienced Thais as remarkably considerate, helpful and also pardoning (everybody makes mistakes ...) towards cyclists, much more than in my European hometown where I spent about 2 months per year, cycling a lot as well.
Here I and all(!) my cycling buddies never had any bicycle accident in traffic due to recless or negligent driving of other road users; so I can only encourage everybody interested in cycling in Thailand not to feel discouraged by common Thai bashers. Do it but instead claiming "your rights" simply follow the way traffic runs in this country. Especially if you are a beginner: Start 100% defensively, expect everything (meaning be and keep your bike always ready for a hard brake), and ... smile! I'm sure you will enjoy it.

[balo]

Even if you have a defensive attitude you can get hit from behind , there are some risks involved so you will never find me on the busy roads. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, rebo said:

Start 100% defensively, expect everything (meaning be and keep your bike always ready for a hard brake), and ... smile! I'm sure you will enjoy it.

 

[0U812]

To  the bike riders. It's only a matter of time before a hoon hi on the sauce hits you from behind while texting 

A snapped spine Is a given. Better get a motorcycle at least your travelling at speed and easier to see 

[elgordo38]

On 8/22/2016 at 0:36 PM, elgordo38 said:

Me to. I am 78 and still cycle. My favorite gripe is that they pass you and then make a left hand turn right in front of you rather than wait behind you a few seconds or they curb you when turning left at a corner. I agree with the helmet part they give you a wide berth. I never attain the speed of younger bikers that fly by me. I peddle slow enough to avoid a lot of problems. Thais seem to have a Jekyll and Hyde thing when it comes to driving. The transition from the bicycle/motorbike here to big cars was to fast. 

No like button there (TV has been a bit wonky this past week) for me to hit but I like it as it describes me to a T right down to the crowding out on corners and passing and then turning glad to see it was not only my imagination. You and I better duck as the age incoming crap will now start. 

[Stevemercer]

RIP Mike Hall - killed while competing in long distance bicycle race in Australia. I tend to agree with his comment below that Australia is one of the least safe countries to cycle in the world. Certainly much worse than Thailand.

 

Hall had previously talked about how dangerous he found Australian drivers in a world circumnavigation ride in 2013.

"Cars will go past you at 110, 120 kilometres an hour, leaving you about a foot gap, and there's a whole other lane free," he said. "It's crazy ... It's been some of the worst driving with regards to safety that I've seen."

[whoareyou]

He was a legend apparently.

There is more to this story than getting hit by a car.

He posted on Facebook just the day before that he was struggling with lack of sleep and night vision.

Before we attack the driver there needs to be more investigation.

[el jefe]

RIP, Mike Hall

 

There are people who say Thailand's roads are some of the most dangerous in the world. Riding on country roads during daylight hours here is much safer than anywhere in the developed world. imho.

[Stevemercer]

Yes, I think that cycling in Thailand is much safer than Australia. There are certainly more cycling deaths in Australia than Thailand. A quote below from The Canberra Times of 5 April 2017:

 

"A Queensland magistrate has called for drivers to be quizzed every few years on recent road rules during their licence renewal process following an inquest into the deaths of two cyclists in Bundaberg [Queensland]".

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

Yes, I think that cycling in Thailand is much safer than Australia. There are certainly more cycling deaths in Australia than Thailand. A quote below from The Canberra Times of 5 April 2017:

 

"A Queensland magistrate has called for drivers to be quizzed every few years on recent road rules during their licence renewal process following an inquest into the deaths of two cyclists in Bundaberg [Queensland]".

"... certainly more cycling deaths in Australia than Thailand".  What is your basis for that assertion?

Is that before or after normalisation per head of population, or per cyclist, or per kilometre cycled?

 

SC

 

EDIT: Here's an example data set that does not cover THailand\

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1258.html

 

This data set shows that motor vehicles kill far more people than Australian motor vehicles, but it is not clear what proportion are cyclists.  Also, the statistics are probably skewed because a large proportion of the victims in Thailand will be vulnerable motorcyclists, who are far less common in Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

[Stevemercer]

According to Australian accident statistics about 50 - 75 cyclists are killed in Australia each year. The trend is for increasing deaths over time (unlike European countries where the trend is for decreasing cycling deaths). The number of cyclists killed is about 4% of the total road toll.

 

I can't find any official annual cyclist death statistics for Thailand. Based on the 'official' reported road fatalities of around 15,000 per year, and applying Australia's 4%, would equate to 600 cyclist deaths in Thailand each year. I remember seeing reports about a year ago estimating up to 100 cycling deaths each year in Thailand, but cannot find the source.

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

According to Australian accident statistics about 50 - 75 cyclists are killed in Australia each year. The trend is for increasing deaths over time (unlike European countries where the trend is for decreasing cycling deaths). The number of cyclists killed is about 4% of the total road toll.

 

I can't find any official annual cyclist death statistics for Thailand. Based on the 'official' reported road fatalities of around 15,000 per year, and applying Australia's 4%, would equate to 600 cyclist deaths in Thailand each year. I remember seeing reports about a year ago estimating up to 100 cycling deaths each year in Thailand, but cannot find the source.

I think your estimate of 50 - 75 is high, based on the first source shown which shows about 30 - 40, but let's work with it for the time being.

 

Given that traffic deaths are approx. 7 times higher per head of population or ten times higher per vehicle in Australia than in Thailand, for a 20-fold increase in total fatalities (based on the second source quoted) then we would be looking for about 150-225 cycling fatalities, for the risk to be about the same.

 

This web site http://www.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp estimates cycling deaths at about 2% of total, or about 480 per year - much more than the 150 - 225 that we would expect if the Thai roads were as safe as Australia for cycling..

 

So I don't think it is certain that there are more cyclists killed in Australia than in Thailand, even after normalising for population.

 

There is another thread on this forum recounting anecdotes of cyclists killed in Thailand, if you are interested

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/822318-cycling-deaths/

 

SC

 

EDIT: It may be the case that you have heard about many more cyclists being killed in Australia than in Thailand.  The majority of cyclists killed here would be very unlikely to be reported in the English language media.

[el jefe]

2 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I think your estimate of 50 - 75 is high, based on the first source shown which shows about 30 - 40, but let's work with it for the time being.

 

Given that traffic deaths are approx. 7 times higher per head of population or ten times higher per vehicle in Australia than in Thailand, for a 20-fold increase in total fatalities (based on the second source quoted) then we would be looking for about 150-225 cycling fatalities, for the risk to be about the same.

 

This web site http://www.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp estimates cycling deaths at about 2% of total, or about 480 per year - much more than the 150 - 225 that we would expect if the Thai roads were as safe as Australia for cycling..

 

So I don't think it is certain that there are more cyclists killed in Australia than in Thailand, even after normalising for population.

 

There is another thread on this forum recounting anecdotes of cyclists killed in Thailand, if you are interested

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/822318-cycling-deaths/

 

SC

 

EDIT: It may be the case that you have heard about many more cyclists being killed in Australia than in Thailand.  The majority of cyclists killed here would be very unlikely to be reported in the English language media.

So far, the only thing we've proven is that there are so many variables and unknowns that we can all make up our own hypothesis to prove whatever we want. I'm going with the theory that Thai roads are safer than in most western countries just because.

[StreetCowboy]

40 minutes ago, el jefe said:

So far, the only thing we've proven is that there are so many variables and unknowns that we can all make up our own hypothesis to prove whatever we want. I'm going with the theory that Thai roads are safer than in most western countries just because.

We're all entitled to our own prejudices, but so far no one has presented any evidence to support that opinion.

 

An overall risk assessment is slightly outside the scope of this thread (a lycra risk assessment might be more relevant); this thread was about the specific hazards affecting cyclists in Thailand.

 

At the risk of digressing back on topic, I find that the risk of over-balancing while at a near-stop following excessive rehydration to be significant, getting back on topic.  This can be alleviated by stopping to rehydrate within walking distance of home, depending on the shoes you wear, or by choosing a route home from the oasis that does not involve traffic lights.

[Ace of Pop]

I've noticed the reactions of drivers whilst being a passenger.They react to Touring Cyclists with respect ,and a Wonder where they going.? .See a wobble of Lycra ,and its Look at these Clowns...My attitude is here you are badly let down by Clowns , that get you all a bad name..?


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[paulsingle]

8 hours ago, Ace of Pop said:

I've noticed the reactions of drivers whilst being a passenger.They react to Touring Cyclists with respect ,and a Wonder where they going.? .See a wobble of Lycra ,and its Look at these Clowns...My attitude is here you are badly let down by Clowns , that get you all a bad name..?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

This couple really impressed me and I think many drivers were curious and respectful.

However, I don't think I'm treated with disrespect because I have a road bike without a rack or panniers or because I have lycra bib shorts with a cycling jersey.

I show consideration for other road users and in the main it is reciprocated.

I've been very disappointed a few times when European motorcyclists have behaved ignorantly.

[el jefe]

18 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

We're all entitled to our own prejudices, but so far no one has presented any evidence to support that opinion.

 

You missed my entire point. I agree with you that there is no evidence to support the opinion that cycling in Thailand is safer than someplace. But no evidence has been supplied to prove the opinion that it's not. It's all personal prejudice.

[Stevemercer]

I can only give my impressions after 30 years cycling all over Australia and 5 years cycling in Thailand. In Australia it is not unusual to have truckies throw tinnies at you, for motorists to hurl abuse at you and for school kids in small towns to chuck stones at you. Cyclists are often the target or road rage. Australian motorists generally seem to have a low tolerance for cyclists and think nothing of passing with a few centimetres to spare. Of course, I'm only generalising here.

 

In Thailand I've yet to experience any of that. The worst (safety) nuisance is dogs sleeping on the road. There is always the risk of a drunk or careless driver - maybe higher in Thailand than Australia.

[StreetCowboy]

22 minutes ago, el jefe said:

You missed my entire point. I agree with you that there is no evidence to support the opinion that cycling in Thailand is safer than someplace. But no evidence has been supplied to prove the opinion that it's not. It's all personal prejudice.

I think that the links to data I posted indicated that cyclists were probably more likely to be killed in Thailand than in Australia, though it did not conclusively prove this conclusion.  However, it did provide fairly good evidence that cyclists are not clearly more likely to be killed in Australia than in Thailand.

 

SC

[el jefe]

20 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I think that the links to data I posted indicated that cyclists were probably more likely to be killed in Thailand than in Australia, though it did not conclusively prove this conclusion.  However, it did provide fairly good evidence that cyclists are not clearly more likely to be killed in Australia than in Thailand.

 

SC

Incomplete data and assumptions used often lead to faulty hypothesis. According to your links you are 4 times more likely to die while walking down the street in Thailand than while riding a bicycle. I can't dispute that, but it doesn't seem right. The only way you can compare safety in two different places is to know how many bicyclists were killed and come up with a formula for how many kms/miles were ridden.

[StreetCowboy]

4 hours ago, el jefe said:

Incomplete data and assumptions used often lead to faulty hypothesis. According to your links you are 4 times more likely to die while walking down the street in Thailand than while riding a bicycle. I can't dispute that, but it doesn't seem right. The only way you can compare safety in two different places is to know how many bicyclists were killed and come up with a formula for how many kms/miles were ridden.

Unless my behaviour changes significantly, I think I am infinitely more likely to die walking down the street than cycling in Bangkok, since I never cycle in Bangkok, but do sometimes walk.

 

The implicit assumption underlying my use of the data above was that the proportion of the population that cycles in Australia and Thailand is comparable, and therefore that a greater risk per head of population corresponds to a greater risk per cyclist.

 

Personally, I am occasionally surprised at the number of cyclists that I see in Bangkok; it doesn't strike me as an attractive city to cycle in.

 

SC

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I live in central BKK not far off Sukhumvit Road. And I often find myself walking along Sukhumvit Road going here or there.

 

Over time, usually at non-rush hour times, I've always been surprised to see some Thai bicyclists -- usually common folks on old klunkers moving slow with no protective gear at all -- pedaling along in the "slow" lane, and from what I've usually seen, the cars and motorcyclists and even the buses seem to usually go around them without much complication. Never yet seen one end up as road kill.

 

On the other hand, there's no way in the world I would ride my road bike along Sukhumvit Road in central BKK at any hour of the day, regardless of whether I was wearing my helmet, pads, or whatever. While the local drivers may give the local cyclists SOME deference, I have a worried feeling that a big falang on a big bike would end up as someone's road kill sooner rather than later.

 

I mean, they don't even stop for pedestrians (falang or Thai) at marked crosswalks. And so someone hits and kills a falang cyclist "by accident" in Bangkok. Who's going to care or do anything about it? And if I ended up dead, with the way the court system works, the other driver would probably walk free, or at worst, be out on a few thousand baht bail within hours and never more to be heard from again.    I'd be dead, of course, so I wouldn't know the difference.

 

[ogb]

The big difference between cycling on the road in Thailand and Australia is that many roads in Australia don't have a shoulder or have an inadequate road shoulder, whereas most roads in Thailand do have a good road shoulder (due to the prevalence of motor scooters in Thailand I think)

Other differences are that in Thailand there are many secondary roads so you can keep off the main car routes, whereas in Australia there usually is only one main route which has high speed cars and an often inadequate road shoulder.

 

Another thing I have noticed is that Thai drivers are used to having to negotiate different road users traveling at varying speeds such as scooters, vendors selling brooms etc, whereas Australian drivers are offended if anyone or anything slows their progress.

On balance, whilst its obvious that Thai roads are generally much more dangerous than roads in Australia, I don't think that is necessarily the case for cyclists on those roads.

 

Fortunately in most Australian capital cities there are extensive cycleways and paths enabling recreational cyclists to mostly keep away from cars.

[bluesofa]

On 22/08/2016 at 10:36 AM, AlQaholic said:

 

Thai drivers do not pay any attention to their driving whatsoever. They daydream about other things or talk on the phone or whatever. This comes mostly from the lack of driver training/education. Hence the frequent occasion that you mention when someone goes around you to overtake you and just a minute later pulls in to a side street or service station, this happens because the mind simply isn't there to plan anything in advance.

Yes, "plan" and "in advance", No matter how I try I just can't translate either of those into Thai....<sarcasm mode off>

[el jefe]

On 8/22/2016 at 10:36 AM, AlQaholic said:

 

Thai drivers do not pay any attention to their driving whatsoever. They daydream about other things or talk on the phone or whatever. This comes mostly from the lack of driver training/education. Hence the frequent occasion that you mention when someone goes around you to overtake you and just a minute later pulls in to a side street or service station, this happens because the mind simply isn't there to plan anything in advance.

 

On 11/21/2017 at 10:19 AM, bluesofa said:

Yes, "plan" and "in advance", No matter how I try I just can't translate either of those into Thai....<sarcasm mode off>

That's really funny. You're bashing Thais based on a quote by a farang whose handle is "Alcoholic"

[StreetCowboy]

It's only anecdotal evidence, but now I concur that cycling in Australia is more dangerous than in Thailand 

 

[Stevemercer]

Christ, that was a bit of bad luck!

 

[bobfish]

On 03/02/2018 at 7:50 PM, StreetCowboy said:

It's only anecdotal evidence, but now I concur that cycling in Australia is more dangerous than in Thailand 

 

Certainly more probability of being hit by a 'roo I would think.