Sleep your way to fat loss!

[Alive]

I agree with this point of yours tropo " Exercise helps to repair the metabolic damage caused by inactivity, One of the main problems, particularly in over 40's, is insulin resistance, which makes it hard to burn fat. "

 

 

 

 

 

---

This is some of what I believe. I'm not going to write research paper today to defend them so prove them wrong yourself.

 

We aren't metabolically equal and never were.

BMA and the healthy weight scales by age and height are not scientific and are questioned by many in the health field

Many people have screwed up metabolisms from birth and since childhood have weight problems

On the other side,  many lucky kids are born with superior metabolic health or even super metabolisms that supply energy in a way that keeps them thin and energized without side effects .

In reality, the sick metabolism is one which does not store fat but in our world thin is beauty

Many people do eat too much but there are many reasons other than just willpower for that.

Future Olympians are chosen at a young age not for their effort but for their potential because of their metabolism, body types and muscle etc.

Foods are filled with chemicals that play havoc on bodies and not all people react the same.

There is a metabolic opposite to diabetes that is not identified as such in my view. These folks have better metabolisms than normal.

Some people cannot gain weight despite eating.

The human body will try to retain weight when starving by slowing the metabolism.

Some people store more fat period. Others don't at all from birth on.

Most of the supposedly healthy group of thin people do not control their weight with willpower or exercise. In fact, they do little.

Is everyone you know from children to the elderly watching what they eat 24/7? Hell no! And most aren't overweight.

Through farming we can see that it is possible to cause animals to grow fatter at different speeds with different foods which means some foods have more effects on the human body than others.

Some animals hold more fat naturally which is why KFC uses imported breeds for its franchises and doesn't use Gai Baan, the local Thai chicken. Humans are as diverse. Some humans just don't gain weight and others always do.

The issue of stress has totally different hormonal effects on different people.

Drugs studies using CAT scans have proven than some individuals are more likely to be addicted to certain substances that others.

 

 

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On the original post about sleep being beneficial so many of your are off about that. I believe ther OPs point was that if you are fasting on a 16 hours on and 8 hours off fast, sleep as part of that 16 hours makes the fast much easier. In fact, in any fast sleep makes the fast easier. Fasting is about eating less.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Alive

[ClutchClark]

25 minutes ago, Alive said:

I agree with this point of yours tropo " Exercise helps to repair the metabolic damage caused by inactivity, One of the main problems, particularly in over 40's, is insulin resistance, which makes it hard to burn fat. "

 

 

 

 

 

---

This is some of what I believe. I'm not going to write research paper today to defend them so prove them wrong yourself.

 

We aren't metabolically equal and never were.

BMA and the healthy weight scales by age and height are not scientific and are questioned by many in the health field

Many people have screwed up metabolisms from birth and since childhood have weight problems

On the other side,  many lucky kids are born with superior metabolic health or even super metabolisms that supply energy in a way that keeps them thin and energized without side effects .

In reality, the sick metabolism is one which does not store fat but in our world thin is beauty

Many people do eat too much but there are many reasons other than just willpower for that.

Future Olympians are chosen at a young age not for their effort but for their potential because of their metabolism, body types and muscle etc.

Foods are filled with chemicals that play havoc on bodies and not all people react the same.

There is a metabolic opposite to diabetes that is not identified as such in my view. These folks have better metabolisms than normal.

Some people cannot gain weight despite eating.

The human body will try to retain weight when starving by slowing the metabolism.

Some people store more fat period. Others don't at all from birth on.

Most of the supposedly healthy group of thin people do not control their weight with willpower or exercise. In fact, they do little.

Is everyone you know from children to the elderly watching what they eat 24/7? Hell no! And most aren't overweight.

Through farming we can see that it is possible to cause animals to grow fatter at different speeds with different foods which means some foods have more effects on the human body than others.

Some animals hold more fat naturally which is why KFC uses imported breeds for its franchises and doesn't use Gai Baan, the local Thai chicken. Humans are as diverse. Some humans just don't gain weight and others always do.

The issue of stress has totally different hormonal effects on different people.

Drugs studies using CAT scans have proven than some individuals are more likely to be addicted to certain substances that others.

 

 

--------

 

 

 

 

On the original post about sleep being beneficial so many of your are off about that. I believe ther OPs point was that if you are fasting on a 16 hours on and 8 hours off fast, sleep as part of that 16 hours makes the fast much easier. In fact, in any fast sleep makes the fast easier. Fasting is about eating less.

 

Not sure what part of your post is yours and how much is a quote by you but all this talk about heredity and pre-disposed to be fat is ridiculous.

 

Why was almost everyone thin and very few obese until 20-30 years ago ? 

Same genetics. Same bloodlines. 

 

it is no accident that the obesity epidemic started in the USA--the Land of Abundance. It is no coincidence this same epidemic now reaches Thailand and affects those enjoying a more decadent Western style lifestyle.

 

Geneitic pre-disposition is an excuse.

[Alive]

I'm not saying DNA is changed. I'm saying metabolisms are affected. My guess is by the foods that we eat today. People are not fat because of lack of willpower alone. There are a lot of reasons. And some are not thin for willpower although they might believe that.

[Alive]

Some people are just predisposed to being fatter. Others have "screwed up" pancreases that keep them thinner than normal until they get diabetes and need injections.

[Alive]

I don't have the answer to this. I am putting up ideas. The problem is real and the solution is not as you can see soon the majority of the world will have this problem. If you think alcoholics and smokers are addicted and people who overeat don't feel even more addiction than them, you really don't know this issue. Alcohol and cigarettes can be stopped cold turkey even but not food. The "Just say no" plans don't have much of a history of success in the world.

[robblok]

I feel a lot of people are just looking for excuses so they don't have to do a thing. In reality everyone can improve on their current status (unless its real lean already).

 

Fact is most don't want to give up their alcohol (i dont drink) or other things they like.

 

In my country people were not fat until there were more restaurants and fast food.. its clearly food related. Some people just can't take one glas of cola.. but take a bottle (i am one of these guys.. so I just don't buy it at all). Its all a question of planning. 

 

I get tired at times of all the excuses people make (while they are not doing anything at all to lose the weight). Now if they try.. and really try and fail.. those are the people i respect. Not those that look for reasons to fail.

 

Its never easy.. i workout 8 hours a week and i take care what I eat and it has worked.  I wonder how much exercise most people get... i doubt most even get the 3 hours that are recommended in a week. 

[Strange]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, indeed.

And such decisions are made everyday by people dealing with weight issues.

Yet, STRANGELY, the vast majority do fail  (this is a KNOWN SCIENTIFIC FACT) to keep off weight that is lost LONG TERM.

Losing weight is a MUCH LESSER task than keeping it off LONG TERM. 

Typically if you see an overweight adult, they have been through this failure cycle MANY TIMES. 

Is that all about just will power?

Or perhaps there are many other COMPLEX FACTORS going into this provably massive FAILURE RATE?!? 

The morality preachers and fat shamers say no, it's ALL about will power and simple calorie math ... so they encourage society (which already does) to see people with weight issues as both "fat" and immoral (lacking self control they say). 

Serious scientists in the field say the reality is MUCH MORE complex. 

 

If you are happy with yourself, then that is all that matters. 

 

If you are not happy with yourself, then change it, and keep it up for the long term. 

 

I am one of the posters in this thread clearly acknowledging that there is more to it (For some people) than willpower alone. Food Addiction, Depression, Compulsion, Health Problems, etc, but these need to be addressed in a different way. 

 

People give up before they even really try and then hate on everyone else that are really giving it 200%

[Jingthing]

More morality lectures. You don't know how hard people have tried. I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking more generally.

[Strange]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

So you're saying> motivation > willpower > action. No argument there.  

 

IMO the best course of action is exercise then diet. By "diet" I mean calorie restriction and modification. If you can start at the same time, even better. Exercise helps to repair the metabolic damage caused by inactivity, One of the main problems, particularly in over 40's, is insulin resistance, which makes it hard to burn fat. Exercise also improve mood and lowers (emotional) stress, which will make it easier to become motivated.

 

Finding the best type of exercise for your particular physical condition is the key. I see too many overweight people killing themselves on runs/jogs - looks like torture. That's no way to gain motivation.

 

Arguing on Thaivisa is a very stressful occupation, so a good exercise session does wonders. I'm off to burn my fat. See ya later!

 

Yo, we are on the same page. Nothing to debate. My points were aimed at the other posters that don't want to see any solution whatsoever. 

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More morality lectures. You don't know how hard people have tried. I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking more generally.

 

Yeah yeah yeah.

 

Because you suffered as a gay male in an era when gays were unjustly persecuted by the moral majority you identify strongly with the underdog.

 

When no underdog victim of society exists then you create one. Fat people are fat because of their lifestyle choice. Nobody is making them fat. Except perhaps corporations with advertising and unhealthy products.

 

How you think anyone is bringing morality into this discussion only proves your constant need to continue your own personal fight. 

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More morality lectures. You don't know how hard people have tried. I'm not even talking about me. I'm talking more generally.

 

Well then what in the world are we even talking about??? 

 

Jeez.... 

[robblok]

Someone in this topic is saying.. im screwed over 40 we get insulin resistant (not Tropo) instead of giving up one should look what one could do to rectify it (instead of giving up). Guess what cardio exercise helps with insulin resistance and there are tons of other things you can do to at least stack the deck a bit more in your favor. (smaller portions of carbs or adding chromium picolinate it all helps)

 

Its good to know what is going against you...  but to give up just because there is some head wind... not my thing. I prefer to read about the problems there are and then work with that knowledge instead of letting it paralyze me.

 

But maybe that is the point.. some people just want it as an excuse.

 

We are not all the same.. there are many pitfalls but that does not mean we should give up or use them as an excuse. If that is called morality then HELL YES IM A PREACHER 

Edited October 1, 2016 by robblok

[dontoearth]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Someone in this topic is saying.. im screwed over 40 we get insulin resistant (not Tropo) instead of giving up one should look what one could do to rectify it (instead of giving up). Guess what cardio exercise helps with insulin resistance and there are tons of other things you can do to at least stack the deck a bit more in your favor. (smaller portions of carbs or adding chromium picolinate it all helps)

 

Its good to know what is going against you...  but to give up just because there is some head wind... not my thing. I prefer to read about the problems there are and then work with that knowledge instead of letting it paralyze me.

 

But maybe that is the point.. some people just want it as an excuse.

 

We are not all the same.. there are many pitfalls but that does not mean we should give up or use them as an excuse. If that is called morality then HELL YES IM A PREACHER 

      I think only one or two posters in this whole forum have said they are happy with being fat and giving up...and only or two have said there is no hope.   so I have no idea WHO THE HELL you are preaching too...

      I am finding that many on this forum know only one tune.

      They sing it loud, they sing it strong, sing it proud, they sing it LONG!

      but it is really a bad song of some dearly held opinions that are not fairing well in the world of science.

      I am sick to death of the eat less move more crowd.  Pepsi, McDonald's and Frito-Lay love you!  Now move on!

      People that are looking for deeper answers are not looking for excuses they are looking for better answers.  That is what propels society forward and how we make progress.  While no one in here is blaming the obesity on old women at the edge of town that practice witchcraft or the man that lives in the woods that is a sorcerer, they are not moving forward much further than that if they believe the whole problem in the whole world is one of will power.  This is complete nonsense.  

      Professionals in the field are indeed amazed that the more general medical community still peddles this load of crap.  And why the public buys it is beyond me? ????    It really does seem that they have been wrong long enough now that no one would believe this crap and even less people would try to peddle it.

      I have made lots of progress but have no portion control and no particular diet plan. 

      I leave the exercise program to a professional.  It is beyond my field of expertise.

      I have no intention of giving up.  

     Your constant harping on this leads me to believe...perhaps...well you guess what I am thinking.

     

     

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      I think only one or two posters in this whole forum have said they are happy with being fat and giving up...and only or two have said there is no hope.   so I have no idea WHO THE HELL you are preaching too...

      I am finding that many on this forum know only one tune.

      They sing it loud, they sing it strong, sing it proud, they sing it LONG!

      but it is really a bad song of some dearly held opinions that are not fairing well in the world of science.

      I am sick to death of the eat less move more crowd.  Pepsi, McDonald's and Frito-Lay love you!  Now move on!

      People that are looking for deeper answers are not looking for excuses they are looking for better answers.  That is what propels society forward and how we make progress.  While no one in here is blaming the obesity on old women at the edge of town that practice witchcraft or the man that lives in the woods that is a sorcerer, they are not moving forward much further than that if they believe the whole problem in the whole world is one of will power.  This is complete nonsense.  

      Professionals in the field are indeed amazed that the more general medical community still peddles this load of crap.  And why the public buys it is beyond me? ????    It really does seem that they have been wrong long enough now that no one would believe this crap and even less people would try to peddle it.

      I have made lots of progress but have no portion control and no particular diet plan. 

      I leave the exercise program to a professional.  It is beyond my field of expertise.

      I have no intention of giving up.  

     Your constant harping on this leads me to believe...perhaps...well you guess what I am thinking.

     

     

 

I am confused by your post.

 

You say you have made progress? You mean you are losing weight ?

 

You say you have no portion control or diet plan? Does that mean you eat the same as before you started on a weightloss goal ?

 

You say you leave your exercise to a professional ? Does that mean you have a physical trainer and are exercising regularly? 

 

I am of the calories and movement group. That is my song. I have seen it work every time when combined with dedication. 

[Jingthing]

 
Well then what in the world are we even talking about??? 
 
Jeez.... 

I was talking about how the vast majority of obese people fail long term in weight control and how only closed minded people insisting on simple minded answers actually believe that is all about morality and will power.

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I am confused by your post.

 

You say you have made progress? You mean you are losing weight ?

 

You say you have no portion control or diet plan? Does that mean you eat the same as before you started on a weightloss goal ?

 

You say you leave your exercise to a professional ? Does that mean you have a physical trainer and are exercising regularly? 

 

I am of the calories and movement group. That is my song. I have seen it work every time when combined with dedication. 

     For a very short while...I have no interest in your song!

[Jingthing]

Most people fail long term with whatever diet exercise plan. That's a fact. Anecdotal accounts are of little value.

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

57 minutes ago, Strange said:

 
Well then what in the world are we even talking about??? 
 
Jeez.... 

I was talking about how the vast majority of obese people fail long term in weight control and how only closed minded people insisting on simple minded answers actually believe that is all about morality and will power.

      Indeed we are not getting a good discussion of this important topic at all as people continue there idiotic morality lectures.  

      At least in the old days we had better people to blame for problems!  I wish they would go back to blaming those women on the edge of town that practice witchcraft...or...is it gypsies with the evil eye...that are causing our weight problems.

      It isn't like there is ton of new sciences that are opening up and showing new and different ideas about weight loss and verifying our long held suspicions that IT IS NOT will power or morals!  Oh wait. There is indeed a ton of new science and research that is quite hopeful. 

      Can we have a discussion of that?

[Strange]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Most people fail long term with whatever diet exercise plan. That's a fact. Anecdotal accounts are of little value.

 

Why? Why do they fail long term? What is the reason? 

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Indeed we are not getting a good discussion of this important topic at all as people continue there idiotic morality lectures.  

      At least in the old days we had better people to blame for problems!  I wish they would go back to blaming those women on the edge of town that practice witchcraft...or...is it gypsies with the evil eye...that are causing our weight problems.

      It isn't like there is ton of new sciences that are opening up and showing new and different ideas about weight loss and verifying our long held suspicions that IT IS NOT will power or morals!  Oh wait. There is indeed a ton of new science and research that is quite hopeful. 

      Can we have a discussion of that?

 

Hopeful in regards to what??? What are you talking about? 

 

Holy cow nobody here is going to burn you at the stake, just go on and open it up. Whats the issue? 

[dontoearth]

Just now, Strange said:

 

Why? Why do they fail long term? What is the reason? 

     The million dollar question is upon us!  There are all sorts of reasons.  Most now well documented with decent science.  The set point theory says your brain simply resets your body weight after weight loss.  The set point forces the weight back on and then some.  This has been verified by the National Institute of Health.  There is a good video in this forum to watch documenting the research on that.

      Recent work on gut flora says that digestion enzymes don't change in the obese person causing them to regain weight.

      That is pretty recent.  It is in the article jingthing referenced somewhat back in this discussion thread.

      So take your pick.

       Then there those will power people and perhaps it is God's curse!

[Strange]

1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

     The million dollar question is upon us!  There are all sorts of reasons.  Most now well documented with decent science.  The set point theory says your brain simply resets your body weight after weight loss.  The set point forces the weight back on and then some.  This has been verified by the National Institute of Health.  There is a good video in this forum to watch documenting the research on that.

      Recent work on gut flora says that digestion enzymes don't change in the obese person causing them to regain weight.

      That is pretty recent.  It is in the article jingthing referenced somewhat back in this discussion thread.

      So take your pick.

       Then there those will power people and perhaps it is God's curse!

 

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat. 

 

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place. 

[dontoearth]

Just now, Strange said:

 

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat. 

 

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place. 

      Read the article carefully and those around it on the page.   The article does specifically state you can't get the same results from eating less!  

       Reading comprehension?

[Strange]

1 minute ago, dontoearth said:

      Read the article carefully and those around it on the page.   The article does specifically state you can't get the same results from eating less!  

       Reading comprehension?

 

Plenty. 

 

Well, end of the day, if you want surgery, go for it. 

[ClutchClark]

9 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat. 

 

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place. 

 

I have read and seen where people try these various surgeries as a final effort but they fail to change their lifestyle and the weight comes back !

 

[ClutchClark]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Most people fail long term with whatever diet exercise plan. That's a fact. Anecdotal accounts are of little value.

 

Not at my gym.

[Strange]

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat. 

 

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place. 

 

I have read and seen where people try these various surgeries as a final effort but they fail to change their lifestyle and the weight comes back !

 

I know man it blows my mind that this is even a thing. 

[ClutchClark]

28 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     For a very short while...I have no interest in your song!

 

I have asked for details and you refuse to tell us how you have achieved your success? I do not understand you. 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Strange said:

  

Edited October 1, 2016 by tropo
I can never delete unwanted quotes.

[tropo]

53 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

The article JT posted a while back, the guy had surgery to reduce the size of his stomach limiting what he can eat. 

 

The same thing can be done by just limiting what you eat in the first place. 

I suppose the big difference is that one method requires willpower, the other doesn't.