Gold shops investing in gold

[Kenny202]

Mrs is interested in investing a small amount of her money in gold, around 200k THB

She's been reading up and seems what a lot of people do is buy when they believe the price is right and sell when

the price goes up 200-500 baht. I at first thought peanuts but starting to make sense to me. These people are doing

this on a daily / weekly basis so even though maybe a one time small return...2000-5000 baht, they are doing it regularly

and over a month or 2 can add up. 

 

Just wondering if anyone knows how this works? Obviously buying gold bars....I think they're still 96%. Sounds like you don't

actually take the gold physically home but get a paper with your stock value on it. The people she has spoken to are doing it with

reputable gold shops but I believe some banks trade gold too.

 

Anybody know of anyone doing this? Do you lose much on a transaction commission ie buy and sell price?

I know with jewellery you pay a premium for manufacture etc but with gold ingots are you buying and selling at the actual

advertised price? Looks like normally a difference of 100 or so baht between buy and sell price.

Can it be done online or is it necessary to make a trip to the gold shop / bank? Obviously now not a great time to buy. She's never

going to be making a million dollars and a lot of luck and intuition required but seems like worth a try to me. Any advice appreciated.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Kenny202

[Dazinoz]

if you go to a gold shop in Thailand and buy gold you take the gold home. I definitely would not trust a piece of paper here.

 

The advertised price is the published price set by some group for gold in Thailand. Changes with world gold changes but only in 50 baht amounts.

 

Each shop adds a fee for buying and selling. This can vary significantly from shop to shop so shop around. Recently I went into one gold shop in Warrarot market in Chiang Mai and asked how much for 5 Baht gold ingot. he quoted published price plus 500 baht/baht so an extra 2500 baht above published price. I went a few shops down and got it for only 50 baht/baht or 250 baht more.

 

It will depend on what size you buy too. It seems anything under 10 baht they charge a fee. A few weeks back I bought a 10 baht, a 5 baht and 2 x 1 baht ingots. The 10 and 5 were free of fee but they charged me 200 baht for each of the 1 baht.

 

As far as I know banks don't trade in gold.

 

As far as timing goes, I believe now is ok. Every think I read points to s significant economic downturn and gold and any precious metal becomes valuable. I the last couple of years of had purchased 100kg of silver in Australia and 27Baht Thai gold. But this is only my opinion and I am sure the self proclaimed experts on here will soon debunk me.

 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The difference in buying and selling price for gold bars is B 100 per baht weight. You can see the present Thai price on apps or Bkk post. The are reputable gold shops in Chinatown that will sell the bars to you and buy the gold back from you at the market price. No questions asked as their bars are all marked. Just Google and these suppliers will show.

[Kenny202]

if you go to a gold shop in Thailand and buy gold you take the gold home. I definitely would not trust a piece of paper here.

 

The advertised price is the published price set by some group for gold in Thailand. Changes with world gold changes but only in 50 baht amounts.

 

Each shop adds a fee for buying and selling. This can vary significantly from shop to shop so shop around. Recently I went into one gold shop in Warrarot market in Chiang Mai and asked how much for 5 Baht gold ingot. he quoted published price plus 500 baht/baht so an extra 2500 baht above published price. I went a few shops down and got it for only 50 baht/baht or 250 baht more.

 

It will depend on what size you buy too. It seems anything under 10 baht they charge a fee. A few weeks back I bought a 10 baht, a 5 baht and 2 x 1 baht ingots. The 10 and 5 were free of fee but they charged me 200 baht for each of the 1 baht.

 

As far as I know banks don't trade in gold.

 

As far as timing goes, I believe now is ok. Every think I read points to s significant economic downturn and gold and any precious metal becomes valuable. I the last couple of years of had purchased 100kg of silver in Australia and 27Baht Thai gold. But this is only my opinion and I am sure the self proclaimed experts on here will soon debunk me.

 

Thanks for the detailed advice mate. I wanted to put a substantial amount into gold a couple of years ago and got shot down on here. I would've netted 25-30% at today's prices had I done it. Then again no one can foresee what will happen. My super annuation on the stockmarket with a fund manager has done the opposite. Gold doesn't seem too complicated for me and u get something tangible in your hand. I like the missus idea of making small wins rather than waiting for the big score. Are u the guy who was selling watches in Australia? Bought a few nice pieces, still have them :-)

[Dazinoz]

You have to make your own decisions. Never listen to the self proclaimed experts on here or any where else including me. My comments are facts except of last paragraph where is my opinion only. A few weeks back I was $aud20,000 up on  my silver but that has come back bit now but I expect the ups and downs but with a trend upwards.

 

No I was not selling watches.

 

Good luck in your investment.

[ThailandLOS]

24 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

The difference in buying and selling price for gold bars is B 100 per baht weight. You can see the present Thai price on apps or Bkk post. The are reputable gold shops in Chinatown that will sell the bars to you and buy the gold back from you at the market price. No questions asked as their bars are all marked. Just Google and these suppliers will show.

 

No questions asked except you need to present your ID when selling.

 

For bars smaller than 5 baht gold, there is a fee on top for all transactions (as I recall 150 THB per 1 baht gold). The spread between buy/sell is always 100 THB. Price can move quite much over a day and is followed as advertised by the Chinese shops mentioned.

Edited August 24, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[12DrinkMore]

You will just be putting money into the pocket of the dealer.

 

The dealer's spread is currently 0.5%.

 

Nobody on Earth is going to guess which way tthe price is going to move on a day to day basis. To save you a lot of money, disappointment and misery you could

 

1. Give your wife a fake balance of say 100,000 Baht and you act as the dealer, using the prices on the internet. I can guarantee that she will be dealing like a loony in the first month and lose at least 10% and see how long it takes to lose 50%.

 

2. To speed up the process you can download all the daily prices for the last two years. Give her the prices for year 1 and then start her dealing using the prices from year two.

 

The only way to deal in gold is to buy and hold, taking a long term view.

[KKr]

An alternative way is to go through the Futures market.
Long trading hours with some of the brokers abroad.

Be aware of some scam brokers that sell heavily lopsided proprietary options, but look for a regular futures broker affiliated to a big bank, regulated in a decent financial center, and with a segregated account for customers' funds.

For my own account, I do usually not bet more underlying metal than the cash available for outright purchase of the physical gold.
But for those more adventurous, Futures give good leverage.

[Kenny202]

You will just be putting money into the pocket of the dealer.

 

The dealer's spread is currently 0.5%.

 

Nobody on Earth is going to guess which way tthe price is going to move on a day to day basis. To save you a lot of money, disappointment and misery you could

 

1. Give your wife a fake balance of say 100,000 Baht and you act as the dealer, using the prices on the internet. I can guarantee that she will be dealing like a loony in the first month and lose at least 10% and see how long it takes to lose 50%.

 

2. To speed up the process you can download all the daily prices for the last two years. Give her the prices for year 1 and then start her dealing using the prices from year two.

 

The only way to deal in gold is to buy and hold, taking a long term view.

Really it's her money from the sale of her house and I'm happy for her to get her teeth into something. She's sensible, kie neow as frk and she'll want out the minute she dips 100 baht. On the other hand she'd be delighted making a couple of thousand baht a month or hopefully more if it turns out she has a flair for it. If not she loses 10 or 20% on 200k thb were not going to be offing ourselves

[Kenny202]

By the way, u guys buy pure gold bars or 96%?

[12DrinkMore]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Really it's her money from the sale of her house and I'm happy for her to get her teeth into something. She's sensible, kie neow as frk and she'll want out the minute she dips 100 baht. On the other hand she'd be delighted making a couple of thousand baht a month or hopefully more if it turns out she has a flair for it. If not she loses 10 or 20% on 200k thb were not going to be offing ourselves

 

OK.

 

Make it realistic.

 

She uses her 200k and you act as the dealer. She will have "skin in the game" and you could have a weekend away on your winnings. Or give them back to her......

 

You cannot lose. Why give your money to the gold shops?

Edited August 24, 2016 by 12DrinkMore

[Shiver]

I don't personally believe it goes up or down that much - it's more that the FIAT is being constantly devalued so that it appears to be going up in multi year terms.  There are swings around that point of course and traders love volatility.  But they don't call it a 'store' of wealth for nothing.  If you calibrate a multi-year monthly gold chart with something like the BigMac Index or the Burritos Index you may be in for a shock how quickly the money in the bank is diluting.

 

I like 12DrinkMore's approach.  That way you can see how a person deals with it at least in decision making where no emotion is involved in the decision.  I would go a little further and change the dates on the chart just in case she recognises a pattern over the last couple of years.

 

As for trading styles...opinions are like *-holes in that everyone has one.  Having been a commodity trader myself for a couple of years (amateur), I can tell you emotion is your enemy when it comes to making trading rules and being able to stick to them.   You can't simulate that, even with forward testing.

 

I did try to get into buying and selling locally when they updated the price less frequently (meaning you knew already if the next price fix would be up or down), but those days are long gone.  Also, you will likely find that if gold is suddenly in great demand then they won't sell you gold, only buy it.

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Shiver
Fix typos

[12DrinkMore]

14 minutes ago, Shiver said:

Also, you will likely find that if gold is suddenly in great demand then they won't sell you gold, only buy it.

 

And if it is falling they won't answer the telephone.........

[slipperylobster]

12 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

And if it is falling they won't answer the telephone.........

 

Never had that problem at all...

Is this true all over Thailand?

 

Sounds like an exaggeration.

 

[fishbrando]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Then again no one can foresee what will happen.

 

This is the key thing to remember.  

 

Gold has, over the long term, held its value well against inflation and fiat currencies but has been known to fluctuate significantly over the short term.  The method your wife describes is just a form of day-trading which is not really better than gambling unless you are George Soros.

 

Quote from John Maynard Keynes: "The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

if you go to a gold shop in Thailand and buy gold you take the gold home. I definitely would not trust a piece of paper here.

 

The advertised price is the published price set by some group for gold in Thailand. Changes with world gold changes but only in 50 baht amounts.

 

Each shop adds a fee for buying and selling. This can vary significantly from shop to shop so shop around. Recently I went into one gold shop in Warrarot market in Chiang Mai and asked how much for 5 Baht gold ingot. he quoted published price plus 500 baht/baht so an extra 2500 baht above published price. I went a few shops down and got it for only 50 baht/baht or 250 baht more.

 

It will depend on what size you buy too. It seems anything under 10 baht they charge a fee. A few weeks back I bought a 10 baht, a 5 baht and 2 x 1 baht ingots. The 10 and 5 were free of fee but they charged me 200 baht for each of the 1 baht.

 

As far as I know banks don't trade in gold.

 

As far as timing goes, I believe now is ok. Every think I read points to s significant economic downturn and gold and any precious metal becomes valuable. I the last couple of years of had purchased 100kg of silver in Australia and 27Baht Thai gold. But this is only my opinion and I am sure the self proclaimed experts on here will soon debunk me.

 

On the contrary I think you made a smart move. Fiat currency comes and goes gold is eternal. The only problem that prior to the start of the new year gold was in no mans land for 4 to 5 years and I still think it was due to manipulation being it is just a small market 3% overall and easy to push around especially with the help of the Fed and Central banks who have vested interests in their monopoly money. A lot of shorts came back to the well to many times in the last runup in prices and got burnt. Once the market settles down to true investment buying and the in and out boys have given up golds lustre will truly shine. You just have to weed these people out and that takes time. 

[catman20]

the time to of bought gold was a few years ago when it was down to about 17,000 per baht.

i tired to but found it difficult as i did not want a million baht of gold at home under the bed. did not trust a piece of paper from a gold shop/dealer so i ended up not buying.

Edited August 24, 2016 by catman20

[bazza40]

Gold is being touted as the next big thing in batteries, replacing lithium and Lead-acid. Apparently it's to do with the number of recharge cycles it can sustain, something like 100 times the cycles of lithium.

If that actually happens, gold won't be USD 1300 an ounce anymore  - it will be more like USD 10,000.

One should view gold as a hedge against paper currencies. It's not an investment,because there's no return unless the price goes up and it is sold.

[bazza40]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

By the way, u guys buy pure gold bars or 96%?

I'm not aware 99.99% bullion is available in Thailand.One can buy it in Australia; however, the buy/sell spread is much larger than for the 96.5% gold here.

[Scotwight]

4 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

if you go to a gold shop in Thailand and buy gold you take the gold home. I definitely would not trust a piece of paper here.

 

The advertised price is the published price set by some group for gold in Thailand. Changes with world gold changes but only in 50 baht amounts.

 

Each shop adds a fee for buying and selling. This can vary significantly from shop to shop so shop around. Recently I went into one gold shop in Warrarot market in Chiang Mai and asked how much for 5 Baht gold ingot. he quoted published price plus 500 baht/baht so an extra 2500 baht above published price. I went a few shops down and got it for only 50 baht/baht or 250 baht more.

 

It will depend on what size you buy too. It seems anything under 10 baht they charge a fee. A few weeks back I bought a 10 baht, a 5 baht and 2 x 1 baht ingots. The 10 and 5 were free of fee but they charged me 200 baht for each of the 1 baht.

 

As far as I know banks don't trade in gold.

 

As far as timing goes, I believe now is ok. Every think I read points to s significant economic downturn and gold and any precious metal becomes valuable. I the last couple of years of had purchased 100kg of silver in Australia and 27Baht Thai gold. But this is only my opinion and I am sure the self proclaimed experts on here will soon debunk me.

 

You an expert eh?  Go to your bank and ask about gold and come back and tell us all. Try K gold. 

[Deepinthailand]

Just before the brexit vote and I don't belive for a minute that inflated my story just that I had moved a lot of cash from UK on the off chance the  vote went yes!!!!!!

Anyway put money in bank here all but 300000bht which we me and the mrs went on a gold jewelry shopping spree. Necklaces and wrist mainly ended up spending all plus 500bht. (Used the jewelers in tesco lotus good value always slightly cheaper than the rest.

Anyway two days ago went back to same shop and weighed in all jewellery for sale back to them. 

Profit of 1500 bht not bad for a couple of months. Waiting for price to drop again now.

[Scotwight]

1 minute ago, Deepinthailand said:

Just before the brexit vote and I don't belive for a minute that inflated my story just that I had moved a lot of cash from UK on the off chance the  vote went yes!!!!!!

Anyway put money in bank here all but 300000bht which we me and the mrs went on a gold jewelry shopping spree. Necklaces and wrist mainly ended up spending all plus 500bht. (Used the jewelers in tesco lotus good value always slightly cheaper than the rest.

Anyway two days ago went back to same shop and weighed in all jewellery for sale back to them. 

Profit of 1500 bht not bad for a couple of months. Waiting for price to drop again now.

Why not buy the bars?

[Deepinthailand]

41 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Why not buy the bars?

Mainly because it was just a spur of the moment thing plus it was a no lose situation if the price was lower when we went to sell the mrs just kept wearing it we decided unless there was at least 1500 profit we wold just hang on to it and 8ve just been reminded by her it was 3000 profit 1500 each.

[Johnniey]

6 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

The only way to deal in gold is to buy and hold, taking a long term view.

I was lucky as I bought a heap of gold in 2001 for 6000 baht then more around 2010 for about 18000.

 

I sold it all when it reached 26000 in 2012 and made a tiny sum.

 

 

However, if someone had bought in say 1980/81, they'd be getting less now than they paid for it. It;s a gamble and many Thai people lose. They are not psychic.

[Johnniey]

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Just before the brexit vote and I don't belive for a minute that inflated my story just that I had moved a lot of cash from UK on the off chance the  vote went yes!!!!!!

Anyway put money in bank here all but 300000bht which we me and the mrs went on a gold jewelry shopping spree. Necklaces and wrist mainly ended up spending all plus 500bht. (Used the jewelers in tesco lotus good value always slightly cheaper than the rest.

Anyway two days ago went back to same shop and weighed in all jewellery for sale back to them. 

Profit of 1500 bht not bad for a couple of months. Waiting for price to drop again now.

You think that is a good gamble, getting 750 baht a month?

[Deepinthailand]

8 hours ago, Johnniey said:

You think that is a good gamble, getting 750 baht a month?

Not a gambling man and if you read my follow up post it was pointed out that I was corrected it was 30000 profit which we split to 1500 each  so it was 100 bht a month which we were happy with I'm not into dealing in gold it was a thought and as stated if we got less offered mrs just kept wearing extra blind so no great shakes. If you make a profit in anything it's worth it. I grow chinnese cabbage shoots I buy pack of seeds 15 bht when grown we sell for 40 bht a kilo we harvest usualy from one pack 2.5 kilo so we get 100 bht.  A profit of 85 bht small but never the less for minimal work a good profit.

[Naam]

16 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I wanted to put a substantial amount into gold a couple of years ago and got shot down on here. I would've netted 25-30% at today's prices had I done it.

no fairy tales please!

 

a couple of years ago (august 2014) gold traded at $1,300/ounce. today the price is 1,324 = you would have netted peanuts.

 

in order to net 30% you would have had to buy seven years ago.

[jobsworth]

i am told that there is very little gold in the world and the volume would only fill an olympic sized swimming pool. I went into this some time ago when in Perth Australia. The gold they sell is 99.999% pure and too soft to be of any use in jewelry so it gets mixed with silver I think and becomes 96% pure which is what they sell in Thailand. In Perth they also sell gold certificates which can be traded like gold. The main problem with gold is storage. I bought an ingot and kept it in my hotel room. Not finding a safe place to store it I sold it back to the gold shop. The price in 1985 was about $800 us per ounce which fell to about $287 when I bought it and has now risen to about $1500 per ounce. Some say that all currencies are doomed to go the way of the Zimbabwe dollar and that the price will rise to $10,000 per ounce. Of course there is very little actual gold and with the demand for jewelry the amount is going down so what is being traded? These gold certificates are a good idea if bought from a reputable dealer but there must be some doubts about what you are buying. It is said that not all of the gold stored in fort knox or the bank of england exists and that some of it has been rented out to make jewelry. Remember how Venezuela wanted and got its gold back? Germany is trying to do the same thing but will have to wait a bit. Why gold is worth so much as a currency must remain a mystery. Pity that we are not still using cowry shells.

 

[Dazinoz]

13 hours ago, Scotwight said:

You an expert eh?  Go to your bank and ask about gold and come back and tell us all. Try K gold. 

 

where did I say I was an expert? If you read carefully you will see I said "as far as I know" and secondly "this is only my opinion".

 

Read before commenting.

[mekongsailor]

Can those gold shops do "home delivery"?  Seems pretty dangerous to me to walk around with a significant amount of gold.