One for those that used to live in Pattaya and prefer C M

[Ricardo]

Pattaya is a good place for an extended-holiday, I still go there a couple-of-times a year, while Chiang Mai is a good place to actually live, is my own view after over a decade here.

 

It's got lots of golf if you're a golfer, some good bookstores/exchanges for readers (one reason we chose CM !), good schools for your kids (if you have them), a myriad of restaurants & other eateries, some nice mountain-views and cooler weather (except March/April).

 

The central area is super for tourists, although I only get in there once a week, but it's nice to know it's there. I can see why they come here !  The moat & river & ruined-walls & wats & older wooden-buildings all help give it character.

 

The people are very mixed, you've got foreigners from all over (farang but also asian), plus Thais from Lanna/Bangkok/hill-tribe/country-and-urban, it's a real cosmopolitan place.

 

I'd also add that there's an end-of-the-line feel to CM, due to being at the very end of the railway, not just a concrete city in-the-thick-of-things, and I like that atmosphere at this stage of my life.

 

No regrets about choosing Chiang Mai ! 

 

 

[does]

12 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

This is bullshit...there are thousands of us here in CM below 70 years old, but what difference does that make anyway? You think that once you ate over 70 you have nothing to offer.

 

If you are leaving soon ,good riddance, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

You are really a gentle soul and kindred spirit. You are the kind of farang I'd befriend immediately in CM... 

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

My goodness, clearly you haven't been to a CEC Breakfast Club in a while.  We've now got a Welcome Committee and several tables set aside for newcomers to sit with members who are very welcoming and want to talk to new folks.  It's a different vibe.  

 

Hi Nancy - first I have to say you have done a wonderful and seemingly tireless job of bringing a sense of community to CM. - You are a great source of information and help to the needy there. I did go to one of the breakfasts and though not new to Thailand, I was seated w/intent next to what might be called a greeter??... obviously a regular... 

 

The food was great - there seemed to be some nice people there... I would have liked to socialize a bit more, meet a variety of people, but my "greeter" conversation was, well, mouth agape stunning... a bit exaggerated but I said "hi" - my greeter, a willing conversationalist, said "Funny you say 'hi' as it rhymes with 'why' which always makes me think of the Roman Empire and.... my greeter went on and on and on, a 45 minute unrequested, unrelenting history lesson, which did not pause to give the greeter time to chew...

 

not sure how you avoid such things but if you have a newbie table, maybe a more structured "greeting facilitator" as at the meetings where everyone is given a chance to introduce themselves and proceed from there... I have not been back since, though will be more careful of being seated in the future.. maybe a round rather than rectangular table... [this was a couple of years ago, so not sure if it was during your "Welcome Committee" days or not] - - 

 

But I repeat, you have done a remarkable job up there... 

[MissAndry]

1 hour ago, does said:

You are really a gentle soul and kindred spirit. You are the kind of farang I'd befriend immediately in CM... 

 

I always avoid white people who slip 'farang' into conversations, not all that keen on speaking with racists.

[stephenterry]

I've lived in CM for nearly 3 years after living in Pattaya for two. CM city area is a more genteel place to live, and generally speaking the resident CM Thais are courteous and friendly, as are the local girls (as opposed to the Isaan influxes). Surprisingly, not that many  locals speak English, even those who work in shopping malls, banks, and/or have regular jobs elsewhere in the city area.

 

The immense choice of restaurants and food outlets far outweighs any that Pattaya has to offer, and the tourists (mainly Chinese, nowadays) are more student, backpacker groups, and less laddie types with facial tattoos who are hell-bound to get pissed every day. So it's quieter and with a non-threatening culture, even in the entertainment areas. There are also a multitude of things to do and see in and around the province - any tourist outlet has dozens of activities to choose from, all at reasonable prices.

 

Like any city, there are places (like small rip-off clubs, karaoke bars) that are best avoided, but generally speaking it's a non-violent city day and night. The Thais here are more curious about Farangs, and less inclined to treat you like sh*t.

 

Yes, there are downsides, the Feb/March forest burnings polluting the air at that time, is a health hazard best avoided by those with respiratory issues, there is no sea or beaches, and it gets cool to cold in Dec/Jan at nights, and exceptionally hot in April (most years). Night life for active males is desultory in comparison with Pattaya, and if that's your scene you'll be disappointed. 

 

All in all, I've settled here for an enjoyable retirement, free from daily hassle, and if I yearn for a bit more excitement, I can hop on a plane and go most places in Thailand within an hour or so at budget cost.

 

 

 

[amexpat]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

 

I always avoid white people who slip 'farang' into conversations, not all that keen on speaking with racists.

 

Racist?  Should we say 'westerner', or  'occidental', or deny all diversity?  Do enlighten us awful bigots, please.

[DeaconJohn]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

 

I always avoid white people who slip 'farang' into conversations, not all that keen on speaking with racists.

There is nothing racist about the word farang.

It has been in the Thai lexicon since the early 16th century as a neutral term.

I challenge you to find a credible historical source that uses the word in a derogatory sense.

There are many insulting terms that include the word, but when used alone it is not an insult.

Learn the etymology and disabuse yourself of your mistaken notions.

[dru2]

Deacon John is quite right.

[1FinickyOne]

45 minutes ago, amexpat said:

 

Racist?  Should we say 'westerner', or  'occidental', or deny all diversity?  Do enlighten us awful bigots, please.

 

2 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

I always avoid white people who slip 'farang' into conversations, not all that keen on speaking with racists.

 

I have heard the use of the word inappropriately and this is an old debate here as people try to add a Western connotation to a Thai word. My Thai is pretty good, and my wife is in no way prejudice, but if she is at the Saturday market and sees a Westerner in town, knowing I enjoy meeting with Westerners who might be visiting - - what Thai word would be suitable for use... Farang is the word I would use - Farang is the word I would understand... I do not know if there is a word for Caucasian or Occidental - other than Farang... And so, she would come home and tell me there was a farang in the market... what one word could be better... 'a person of unknown origin but definitely not born in this village' was in the market today... thankfully she is not that ridiculous. 

 

She is not using the word in a derogatory manner... it is only in the West where it is considered impolite to use certain words to distinguish certain things... but it can be insulting if used poorly - my family calls me "Khun Kenk24" if a neighbor is here and they refer to me as "the farang" - - I don't particularly like, not as a racial slur but that I have been living here a dozen or more years and they should know my name... but part of being in a different culture is making adjustments... 

 

Now, if you are new here and don't really know many Thai people or have Thai family and friends, the only time you might hear the word in reference to yourself might likely be in an inappropriate manner, so, understandable, but maybe try and get used to the fact that you are in a different culture and there is a different language and culture to learn about... and it takes time and effort. 

[MissAndry]

1 hour ago, amexpat said:

 

Racist?  Should we say 'westerner', or  'occidental', or deny all diversity?  Do enlighten us awful bigots, please.

It's a Thai word, not English, no need to use it when speaking English.

Now if you were speaking Thai and used it, maybe ............ Caucasian if you want to pick out white people, foreigner if you are commenting about all non Thai. I don't like foreigners who insert any 'bar girl' words in their conversations, totally unnecessary. 

 

I also can't see any need to pick out white folk from the foreigner crowd myself, skin colour isn't important in most posts. 

[MissAndry]

20 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

My Thai is pretty good, and my wife is in no way prejudice, but if she is at the Saturday market and sees a Westerner in town, knowing I enjoy meeting with Westerners who might be visiting - - what Thai word would be suitable for use... Farang is the word I would use - Farang is the word I would understand...

 

So you like speaking with white people, just because they are white?

And you don't think that makes you a racist? Oh yes it does.

 

By the way, a racist is picking out people for special attention by their skin colour, it doesn't have to be derogatory.

Edited August 26, 2016 by MissAndry

[narkeddiver]

17 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

So you like speaking with white people, just because they are white?

And you don't think that makes you a racist? Oh yes it does.

 

3 hours ago, MissAndry said:

 

I always avoid white people who slip 'farang' into conversations, not all that keen on speaking with racists.

 

Not entirely  sure how these comments help the OP determine whether Chiang Mai is better suited to him then Pattaya

 

Although knowing you you reside in Chiang Mai may well steer him towards staying in Pattaya

Edited August 26, 2016 by narkeddiver

[amexpat]

18 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

So you like speaking with white people, just because they are white?

And you don't think that makes you a racist? Oh yes it does.

 

By the way, a racist is picking out people for special attention by their skin colour, it doesn't have to be derogatory.

racist |ˈrāsəst|

noun

a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another: the comments have led to her being called a racist.

[1FinickyOne]

26 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

So you like speaking with white people, just because they are white?

And you don't think that makes you a racist? Oh yes it does.

 

By the way, a racist is picking out people for special attention by their skin colour, it doesn't have to be derogatory.

 

Yes, but I believe you, based on all your continually negative posts, see it as derogatory... calling someone a racist for using a word you don't understand is not done in a neutral manner. 

 

In the example I gave, yes, I understand that a white person in the village is a visitor... they likely do not speak Thai - they likely have nobody other than their wife to talk with, they cannot speak with her family... for most, that is fine and we just sit and chat for a few minutes - - but some need assistance - they might enjoy some time away from their family, they might want to use the internet available in my home, they may want a ride into town to do some shopping... or a meal at a farang food restaurant that they or their family would surely not know existed...

 

I do not need anything in turn for this - just helping someone out - easily done and nice to have a chat... 

 

I would definitely not say it is because they are white, but that I know they are new here, and I am equally willing to help Thai or other people that are obviously in need of help. And do so regularly... 

Edited August 26, 2016 by kenk24

[MissAndry]

11 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

 

I do not need anything in turn for this - just helping someone out - easily done and nice to have a chat... 

 

 

You sound needy and lonely. You should move somewhere were more people speak English and attempt to make some real friends. I hate strangers walking up at random and trying to talk with me. Especially random weirdo men, my mum taught me not to speak with strangers.

Edited August 26, 2016 by MissAndry

[Scotwight]

8 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

You sound needy and lonely. You should move somewhere were more people speak English and attempt to make some real friends. I hate strangers walking up at random and trying to talk with me. Especially random weirdo men, my mum taught me not to speak with strangers.

Considering the number of conversations with random weirdo men you have daily here that does seems a bit odd.  

[MissAndry]

Just now, Scotwight said:

Considering the number of conversations with random weirdo men you have daily here that does seems a bit odd.  

 

My mum never taught me not to post anonymous messages to anonymous men (or women).

[Naam]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

I have heard the use of the word inappropriately and this is an old debate here as people try to add a Western connotation to a Thai word. My Thai is pretty good, and my wife is in no way prejudice, but if she is at the Saturday market and sees a Westerner in town, knowing I enjoy meeting with Westerners who might be visiting - - what Thai word would be suitable for use... Farang is the word I would use - Farang is the word I would understand... I do not know if there is a word for Caucasian or Occidental - other than Farang... And so, she would come home and tell me there was a farang in the market... what one word could be better... 'a person of unknown origin but definitely not born in this village' was in the market today... thankfully she is not that ridiculous. 

 

                                              

[balo]

I will be following this thread closely as I am in the same situation as the OP.   I will live for 1 year in CM to look at some business opportunities. My experience with CM is that there are plenty of young professionals or what we call digital nomads living there , not only retired people. Most of them are quite happy and love what the city has to offer.

 

If you check out some of the facebook groups you will find lots of info and make friends too.

 

As a Scandinavian I was looking for some Nordic restaurants and I found it during my last visit, so you can get genuine western food run by foreign owners, just like in Pattaya which is a plus if you do not eat a lot of Thai food.  Now I want to find out if there is a European bakery up there , because I need to eat my daily slice of fresh bread (not big c ) . 

I will miss some of the expat community in Pattaya but not much. I will not miss the dirty beaches , that's for sure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rogeroc]

1 hour ago, kenk24 said:

 

 

I have heard the use of the word inappropriately and this is an old debate here as people try to add a Western connotation to a Thai word. My Thai is pretty good, and my wife is in no way prejudice, but if she is at the Saturday market and sees a Westerner in town, knowing I enjoy meeting with Westerners who might be visiting - - what Thai word would be suitable for use... Farang is the word I would use - Farang is the word I would understand... I do not know if there is a word for Caucasian or Occidental - other than Farang... And so, she would come home and tell me there was a farang in the market... what one word could be better... 'a person of unknown origin but definitely not born in this village' was in the market today... thankfully she is not that ridiculous. 

 

She is not using the word in a derogatory manner... it is only in the West where it is considered impolite to use certain words to distinguish certain things... but it can be insulting if used poorly - my family calls me "Khun Kenk24" if a neighbor is here and they refer to me as "the farang" - - I don't particularly like, not as a racial slur but that I have been living here a dozen or more years and they should know my name... but part of being in a different culture is making adjustments... 

 

Now, if you are new here and don't really know many Thai people or have Thai family and friends, the only time you might hear the word in reference to yourself might likely be in an inappropriate manner, so, understandable, but maybe try and get used to the fact that you are in a different culture and there is a different language and culture to learn about... and it takes time and effort. 

 

I know this is off topic but i get fed up with so many Posters on this site on every topic using the word 'Farang' This is an English speaking site and the great bulk of Posters are from Western countries. It is not an English word! On top of all that a significant percentage of Posters think it offensive and (whether you agree or not) that should be considered before using the word.  How nice it would be to see it used less often.

[MissAndry]

26 minutes ago, balo said:

Now I want to find out if there is a European bakery up there , because I need to eat my daily slice of fresh bread (not big c ) . 

 

 

There are loads of bakeries, all the Rimping stores have quality European breads on sale. Nana Bakery in Santhitam is owned by a French baker and his bread, croissants and pastries are really good.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, AlexRich said:

What I liked about Chiang Mai:

 

- the 'adult' area is in one location, so in that respect CM is like a 'normal' Thai town, you can avoid it if you wish.

- no one shouts 'massage' at you every 5 minutes.

- people are friendly and the expats tend to be more backpacker and mature professional types, not mongers.

- shopping facilities, cinemas and restaurants are better than Pattaya.

- if you like outdoor pursuits (cycling, nature, zoo, hill walking, zip lining, etc) it has much to offer.

- great little cafes, with excellent coffee and home made cakes, with generally good wi fi.

- feels more genuinely Thai and less in-your-face commercial than Pattaya ... I love wandering around the walled city.

- excellent markets ... night market is large and has great arts and crafts and foods.

- second hand bookshops, great for browsing.

- an airport, so you can go to other places for a few days quite easily.

 

If you enjoy Pattaya nightlife you will not find it in CM to the same extent. My only complaint is the 'haze' that descends on the place during burning season, and for me that was the deal breaker ... your ideal would be to have a three to four month holiday somewhere else to avoid it. I could easily live there, but not all year long.

Thanks to all for the many replies.

 

To you, thanks, but I am of an age that precludes the wandering as much as I used to like it and I am really not into the restaurant/ cafe culture.

I guess I'm asking more about the social scene for older expats like they have in Pattaya where people gather somewhere every week to make friends and gossip.

[balo]

2 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

Nana Bakery in Santhitam is owned by a French baker and his bread, croissants and pastries are really good.

 

Yes I am aware of that but I'm not looking for white bread , more the German type or Scandinavian , country bread with lots of fiber.

 

Bei Otto in Bangkok knows how to make them . 

[MissAndry]

I bought a Rye sourdough from Nana yesterday. Still a bit left.

Edited August 26, 2016 by MissAndry

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Ricardo said:

Pattaya is a good place for an extended-holiday, I still go there a couple-of-times a year, while Chiang Mai is a good place to actually live, is my own view after over a decade here.

 

It's got lots of golf if you're a golfer, some good bookstores/exchanges for readers (one reason we chose CM !), good schools for your kids (if you have them), a myriad of restaurants & other eateries, some nice mountain-views and cooler weather (except March/April).

 

The central area is super for tourists, although I only get in there once a week, but it's nice to know it's there. I can see why they come here !  The moat & river & ruined-walls & wats & older wooden-buildings all help give it character.

 

The people are very mixed, you've got foreigners from all over (farang but also asian), plus Thais from Lanna/Bangkok/hill-tribe/country-and-urban, it's a real cosmopolitan place.

 

I'd also add that there's an end-of-the-line feel to CM, due to being at the very end of the railway, not just a concrete city in-the-thick-of-things, and I like that atmosphere at this stage of my life.

 

No regrets about choosing Chiang Mai ! 

 

 

Thank you for your positive reply.

Just to be pedantic concerning the "ruined" walls though, they were "restored" not that long ago if you look at the date on the bricks, so that is a recent build and not the original falling down wall.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

It's a Thai word, not English, no need to use it when speaking English.

Now if you were speaking Thai and used it, maybe ............ Caucasian if you want to pick out white people, foreigner if you are commenting about all non Thai. I don't like foreigners who insert any 'bar girl' words in their conversations, totally unnecessary.

 

I also can't see any need to pick out white folk from the foreigner crowd myself, skin colour isn't important in most posts.

Every non western country has a word for westerner. No point getting stressed about it.

I have no issue with the Thais that say farang when talking about me, and it uses less letters than typing westerner every time.

 

Now, can you please stop hijacking my thread with this off topic stuff. Start your own thread if you want to have a rant about it.

Edited August 26, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

59 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

                                              

How do you get those emoticons? I can only get a few now and they don't include those.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, bazza40 said:

Perhaps the OP could be more specific about what he enjoys. He wants to know if there is enough to do IN CM not to be bored.  What doesn't bore him?

Each to his own. I avoid social/expat clubs, because that would be where most bores are camped.

If I know what is available I know if there is enough to not be bored.

Given that I am a person of very many interests of a wide and varied nature if I were to list them all the OP would be so long as to make people pass by without replying.

 

It's also a chance for people to discuss a city that some obviously love in a positive manner, which will be of benefit to more than me.

[balo]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

I bought a Rye sourdough from Nana yesterday.

 

Not the type I was thinking of , but I will check them out.

How much do you pay for the bread there? Up to 100 baht is normal . 

 

The big question is if they use imported flour or the locally produced flour , there's a big difference. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by balo

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every non western country has a word for westerner. No point getting stressed about it.

I have no issue with the Thais that say farang when talking about me, and it uses less letters than typing westerner every time.

 

Now, can you please stop hijacking my thread with this off topic stuff. Start your own thread if you want to have a rant about it.

Well, maybe you should stay in Pattaya where there it's more acceptable to have an exploitative attitude toward foreigners and use the "f" word to describe them.  I just returned from a day at Suan Dok Hospital, the teaching hospital associated with CM Univ where I was assisting some elderly foreigners and I can assure you that when speaking about foreigners, the doctors and nurses use the words "kon dtang chaat"  or the exact nationality of the person and not "farang".  Even the name of their special line item for dual pricing uses the proper name and not "farang room price".   (After all, Japanese, Korean, Chinese etc patients have to pay that "special" room charge, too.)