An Australian trying to retire in Thailand

georgemandm · August 29, 2016

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Agree coming and going for you is probably more expensive now than it was 5 years ago because you probably hang in the bigger places, like Pattaya, Phuket, Chang Mi and or the big city BKK, I on the other hand am content with living a rural existence away from people, which is also cheaper than the above places, and I do not live on 300 baht a day, although I could, food and drink wise, lets not forget car running costs, insurances, house maintenance, kids etc etc, so its more like 1,500 baht per day balanced over the year, not including holidays.

Yes Thai's on 300 baht a day do it tough, but this is the norm as it is for others back in AUS, but in AUS they have hand outs, here, a girl I know had a motorbike accident, her leg is f?????, her arm is f?????, she gets a disability allowance of 700 baht a month, go figure, although free medical, she has no hope, and is young too, shame !

Yes I am grateful that my parents migrated to Australia to have a better life after WW2 and give their kids a better chance, but lets not forget who built Australia. I am here in Thailand now because living in Australia is far too expensive, and my kids futures are way out of reach, and I chose not to work till I am 67 to receive the pension, if I live that far, having done the math and the expenses, if I survived I would probably be dead just after I received my pension. So I chose to move here, be stress free and give my kids a life in the village, they can have simple lives, as opposed to working in the slave factory 6/7th's of their lives and have major debt to continue being enslaved, just to have a roof over their heads and the, as you say, to make money, but by the time you take the tax out and other costs to live you won't be left with much, its all a scam George, trust me, besides when they reach 18, if they decide this village life is not for them and they want the faster pace with no life, they can do whatever they want, comes from the Thai saying: you falang have money but no life, we Thai have life but no money, which would you chose George, I know which one I have chosen, a little late, but better than never.

Thais say that because they have no hop of having money .

for me if you have no have money you can't have a life not care what Thais say .

i seen the Thais life in the villages not for me they can have it , just ask my thai wife she tell you about villages life bullsh?? Like a Aussie would say haha .

georgemandm · August 29, 2016

2 minutes ago, georgemandm said:

Thais say that because they have no hop of having money .

for me if you have no have money you can't have a life not care what Thais say .

i seen the Thais life in the villages not for me they can have it , just ask my thai wife she tell you about villages life bullsh?? Like a Aussie would say haha .

Wife just got in the car I just ask about the saying you told me about we westerns have money no life and thai have no money have life her reply was Bullsh??

So that is coming from a thai with a brain .

4MyEgo · August 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, georgemandm said:

Thais say that because they have no hop of having money .

for me if you have no have money you can't have a life not care what Thais say .

i seen the Thais life in the villages not for me they can have it , just ask my thai wife she tell you about villages life bullsh?? Like a Aussie would say haha .

Each to their own George.

I am happy, my wife is happy, the kids are happy and that's all that matters.

If your happy George, then I am happy for you too, regardless if you live in the big smoke or in a village, life is too short, and yes without money you can be happy believe it or not, although I have enough to keep me going till I am 101, living the simple life makes me stop to appreciate it more and more everyday.

georgemandm · August 29, 2016

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Each to their own George.

I am happy, my wife is happy, the kids are happy and that's all that matters.

If your happy George, then I am happy for you too, regardless if you live in the big smoke or in a village, life is too short, and yes without money you can be happy believe it or not, although I have enough to keep me going till I am 101, living the simple life makes me stop to appreciate it more and more everyday.

Ok good on you , happy for you , I will disagree on the money thing but with out money you are nothing, I have been there in my life and never ever what to going back to not have money to buy good food again.

4MyEgo · August 29, 2016

12 minutes ago, georgemandm said:

Ok good on you , happy for you , I will disagree on the money thing but with out money you are nothing, I have been there in my life and never ever what to going back to not have money to buy good food again.

When you hit rock bottom as you say you have, for whatever reason, you bounce back, so hopefully you will keep eating well from here on in, I really miss Greek food, reh humoto

georgemandm · August 29, 2016

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

When you hit rock bottom as you say you have, for whatever reason, you bounce back, so hopefully you will keep eating well from here on in, I really miss Greek food, reh humoto

Ok thanks , I am a great Greek cook , my mum was a great teacher .

I made my mate a great Greek dish of food last week In issan he love it .

Pastitsoi .

metisdead · August 29, 2016

A post using foreign language has been removed. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe the information you are providing might be a little out of wack.

Having read many many court cases, it would appear cut and dry, if you live outside of Australia for 183 days in a financial year you are up the creek, see below from your link:

leave Australia permanently

treated as a foreign resident for tax purposes from the date of your departure

Yes,that's my understanding.Have been checking a lot but haven't found a loophole yet.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Me again George

I came here with a mate 10 years ago for a holiday, not for pussy, he even said to me on the plane he wasn't going to put any numbers on the board, I said I 2nd that, then I met my wife of 10 years now, couldn't be happier and seeing the country for what it is from far south to the far north-east, I think if you had a Thai partner in your life George you would probably appreciate Thailand a bit more, if you have been bitten as 20% of Aussies have like Bob9 said, you just got to get back on the horse, but change your riding style, because no one is getting through to you regarding this topic, and your entitled to your opinion, and I appreciate change is hard.

He has admitted on another thread that he has a Thai wife,so he has been chasing after all.But his is different,of course.

Peterw42 · August 29, 2016

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe the information you are providing might be a little out of wack.

Having read many many court cases, it would appear cut and dry, if you live outside of Australia for 183 days in a financial year you are up the creek, see below from your link:

leave Australia permanently

treated as a foreign resident for tax purposes from the date of your departure

If you pass this test

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

Then you are considered "not leaving Australia permamently" even after 180 days. You have qualified under other provisions (own a property, intend to return etc) and the 180 day rule "does not apply", thats what the test is for.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

10 hours ago, Billy Bloggs said:

4MyEgo, sorry cant quote you, a bloody George post keeps popping in.

One very important word you sent "Permanent", I have a permanent residence in Australia and I dont in Thailand, I have other income in Australia and I dont in Thailand, I have my Super still in Australia, I have shares and trade them regularly in Australia. Plus I was there for 1 day last year on 2 occasions on my way to NZ(that bit isnt important). So yes Im quite easily a tax resident as I havent left permanently.

Sorry Billy,but you are wrong.I have all of the above also.If you are out of the country for 6 months and 1 day,they consider you a non resident and all that that implies.If you are getting around it you can PM me,i would like to know.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

My advise to you would be to go underwater old croc, meaning I agree with what your saying about this so called hypocrisy that because we chose to live abroad, not only do we miss out on the OAP unless we return for 2 years, then it gets reduced when we go back, they also want to stick it to us on our super, assuming you are drawing down on it monthly.

I don't know your full situation, but shares are not taxed (fully franked) so if you have shares your ok, and if your lucky enough for them to go up in value (no capital gains tax), if you have money in term deposit accounts its 10% withholding tax on the interest, forget property/rent as they don't want you to own property as a non resident and will slug you 32.5c for every dollar and FULL capital gains tax from the date you departed Australia, retrospectively !

I believe that as you have reached your preservation age, actually you are over it at 68, would suggest you look at taking it as a lump sum as there shouldn't be any tax payable on it that way, I am waiting for 4 years because I am told at 60 there is no tax payable, but if I take it as an income stream there is tax payable.

Hope this advise helps your cause.

No tax on income stream matey,that's what i'm doing, as long as you are over 60.Also,my tax agent told me capital gains doesn't kick in til 6 years after you start renting the house out.I need somewhere to live when i do my 2 years penance and i would like to be in my old area with my neighbors and friends.Walking distance to everything.

Edited August 29, 2016 by louse1953

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

10 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I'm having trouble with the quote system here too.

Thanks Billy and 4myego.

I have an address in Australia and have been paying private health insurance.

I still state I am a resident there, based on the definitions of permanent abode and normal domicile. I wouldn't like to test my case in court.

I don't have the option of taking my balance out of Comsuper now. I took the pension and lump sum option when I retired, I can't change now. I don't work overseas.

Another poster on the forum, in the same position, once rang ATO to enquire and was told to lodge as a resident. That verbal ruling is posted in their computers. I'm not game to do the same in case the outcome is different and I have then put my head up.

I just ask the question here when a new thread opens up in case any members have new information.

There is an old thread called Australian Pensions (or similar), hidden somewhere in the archives here, where questions on OAP, Disability and Superannuation, have been raised and debated at length.

That went 78 pages last time i looked but it has gone in the changeover.Everything here was in that thread,nothing new.There are a lot of disgruntled Ozzies here,including george for different reasons.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The whole system if ridiculous, to the left you have the old age pension, you want it, you have to return for 2 years, "that's it, take it or leave it", as for being a non resident there are about 4 different ways to either be or not be a foreign resident, this should only apply if you are working overseas and making bacon back in Australia, so that your not milking the cow and extracting the $'s overseas.

For retirees this should not apply, example, if I decide to leave my money in the bank in Australia and earn interest, ok 10% fine, shares, tax already paid (fully franked), but property/rent is a no, no, if its not your principal place of residency, why couldn't they just leave it as tax under the Australian tax system, they would get more IMO

I was told it was to tax the wealthy Chinese on the East Coast,mainly Sydney and us small fry got caught up in it.Why have different taxes.Why not tax it as per working people and then i would be under the threshold.55

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

55 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you pass this test

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

Then you are considered "not leaving Australia permamently" even after 180 days. You have qualified under other provisions (own a property, intend to return etc) and the 180 day rule "does not apply", thats what the test is for.

Thanks Pete,my tax agent may need a good talking to.

Bob9 · August 29, 2016

53 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Sorry Billy,but you are wrong.I have all of the above also.If you are out of the country for 6 months and 1 day,they consider you a non resident and all that that implies.If you are getting around it you can PM me,i would like to know.

Sorry but I am sure you are wrong - it all depends on circumstances. There is no cut and dry time period - I have that in writing from ATO (got a personal ruling). If a person leaves permanently, then on day one they are a non-resident for tax purposes (note - this is not related to CLink issues - only ATO). However, a person can leave for years temporarily and maintain residence through keeping their home, contacts and visits, banks, licence, voting, etc etc.

The ATO system is 'self-determined' - they dont ask questions until after you lodge your tax return - and then only maybe. What i mean is that you make the decision and lodge your return on that basis. If they happen to review you and disagree with you, then they will advise so and ask for more information. I have been overseas for years and visit 1-2 times a year. I maintain my residence (dont rent it out), and as far as I am concerned I am a resident of Australia and live there - and I lodge my tax return as such (inc 18K threshold). It is different for CLink because they are paying you a pension (maybe) as they decide each and every application.

It is not a matter of getting around it for ATO, it is a matter of remaining a resident of Australia. You can go overseas as long as you like - as long as it is a holiday/s - you must just reside/live in Australia. There are guidelines and examples - but the real test is where do you consider you live, and what can you provide (if requested) to back up that position. Number one is an address/home - which is where your mail goes and where you are registered for voting - and the add-ons (bank accounts, etc etc). And you dont have to own/rent it - you can live with a family/friend - but it would be best if you did live there for a while before going overseas for any extended period.

louse1953 · August 29, 2016

7 hours ago, Bob9 said:

Sorry but I am sure you are wrong - it all depends on circumstances. There is no cut and dry time period - I have that in writing from ATO (got a personal ruling). If a person leaves permanently, then on day one they are a non-resident for tax purposes (note - this is not related to CLink issues - only ATO). However, a person can leave for years temporarily and maintain residence through keeping their home, contacts and visits, banks, licence, voting, etc etc.

The ATO system is 'self-determined' - they dont ask questions until after you lodge your tax return - and then only maybe. What i mean is that you make the decision and lodge your return on that basis. If they happen to review you and disagree with you, then they will advise so and ask for more information. I have been overseas for years and visit 1-2 times a year. I maintain my residence (dont rent it out), and as far as I am concerned I am a resident of Australia and live there - and I lodge my tax return as such (inc 18K threshold). It is different for CLink because they are paying you a pension (maybe) as they decide each and every application.

It is not a matter of getting around it for ATO, it is a matter of remaining a resident of Australia. You can go overseas as long as you like - as long as it is a holiday/s - you must just reside/live in Australia. There are guidelines and examples - but the real test is where do you consider you live, and what can you provide (if requested) to back up that position. Number one is an address/home - which is where your mail goes and where you are registered for voting - and the add-ons (bank accounts, etc etc). And you dont have to own/rent it - you can live with a family/friend - but it would be best if you did live there for a while before going overseas for any extended period.

Yes Bob,i stand corrected,but not convinced yet on my situation.I wont count my chickens yet.Thanks to Peter's link i have been made aware of this and after filling out the form i have come up as a resident.My tax agent has given me a bum steer.I have never nominated myself as a non resident but maybe she did.All they quoted me was the 180 day ruling.Thanks for letting me know.This could save me $3000.

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

12 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

If you pass this test

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

Then you are considered "not leaving Australia permamently" even after 180 days. You have qualified under other provisions (own a property, intend to return etc) and the 180 day rule "does not apply", thats what the test is for.

I suppose at the end of the day we have to lie to avoid getting caught up in the most ridiculous rule that I have ever come across in my entire life, e.g. if I decide to move to another country to retire and spend my life saving to survive in that country, I should have that right, and I should have the right to pay tax as an Australian resident if my life savings are still invested in Australia, after all, I am not leaning on the government for any old age pension or asking for any discounts, suffice to say, the more and more I research the more and more I find no way out but of this but to be forced to lie, e.g. doesn't pay to be honest, after all they are screwing with my life for their monetary gain to support others off my back. Too lie and advise them that I am an Australian resident for tax purposes, I would have to say that I intend to return before 2 years, e.g. noting one of the questions they ask, e.g.

Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas?	No

see below copy and pasted answers to the questions that I lied too.

There is also an ATO disclaimer all should be careful of, also copied and pasted below.

Determination of residency status – leaving Australia Residency status	Version 2.3.0

	You are an Australian resident for taxation purposes after you depart Australia.

	You provided the following information

	Are you under 16 years of age?	No

	Are you or your spouse an eligible employee in the CSS or a member of the PSS?	No

	Are/were you an Australian resident for tax purposes immediately before leaving Australia?	Yes

	Are you a temporary resident leaving Australia to live in another country (or countries)?	No

	Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country?	No

	Where were you born?	Australia

	What do you consider to be your home country?	Australia

	Will you spend the majority of your time based in any one place while overseas?	No

	Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas?	No


	What to do next

	As an Australian resident, you need to continue to lodge annual income tax returns in Australia. In this case:
	need to declare worldwide income that you earn, subject to the operation of any international tax treaties. That includes capital gains from the disposal of assets. will be subject to income tax at resident rates, including the medicare levy. will be entitled to a full tax-free threshold.
	You should keep a copy of this decision for your taxation records.

	If you're lodging your tax return online this year, we have free, fast and secure options. For more information, go to www.ato.gov.au/lodgeonline.

	More information
	For information on:
	the Australian income tax system: access other information on this website phone 13 28 61 between 8.00am and 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. how your residency for tax purposes is determined, see Leaving Australia - overview, and related publications on this website.
	Notes and disclaimers
	This determination is based on the information you have provided. As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation. If your circumstances differ from those on which you based your answers in this determination, please use this tool again to assess whether your residency status has changed.

	Provide feedback
	We would appreciate your feedback on this tool. It should take you around one minute to complete and will help us improve our service.

Disclaimer

This tool gives a decision based on the information you have provided.

As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's a forced chance one has to take then to have to pay additional tax for living in another country, that is if you leave your funds in Australia, looks like I will also have to shift it, that will most likely solve my problem permanently, that and do not return to the lucky country to face any potential music in the future ?

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

11 hours ago, louse1953 said:

I was told it was to tax the wealthy Chinese on the East Coast,mainly Sydney and us small fry got caught up in it.Why have different taxes.Why not tax it as per working people and then i would be under the threshold.55

Hey Louse

Feel free to send me an email regarding how long you have been here, as I may have a way out for you ?

Don't get too excited, it depends on how long you have been here, I have a plan for me, as I have been here for 9 months so far.

Cheers

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

12 hours ago, louse1953 said:

No tax on income stream matey,that's what i'm doing, as long as you are over 60.Also,my tax agent told me capital gains doesn't kick in til 6 years after you start renting the house out.I need somewhere to live when i do my 2 years penance and i would like to be in my old area with my neighbors and friends.Walking distance to everything.

No tax on income stream, I like that, but my understanding is also no tax after 60 lump sum ?

The 6 year rule applies if you purchased the property and moved into it straight away, not for me as I already owned a place, then sold that a year later and moved into the other one that I purchase a year earlier as the market was going spastic upwards in Sydney, which I recently sold, so I couldn't use the 6 year rule as I didn't move into it straight away, talk about "suck"

Edited August 30, 2016 by 4MyEgo

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

11 hours ago, Bob9 said:

Sorry but I am sure you are wrong - it all depends on circumstances. There is no cut and dry time period - I have that in writing from ATO (got a personal ruling). If a person leaves permanently, then on day one they are a non-resident for tax purposes (note - this is not related to CLink issues - only ATO). However, a person can leave for years temporarily and maintain residence through keeping their home, contacts and visits, banks, licence, voting, etc etc.

The ATO system is 'self-determined' - they dont ask questions until after you lodge your tax return - and then only maybe. What i mean is that you make the decision and lodge your return on that basis. If they happen to review you and disagree with you, then they will advise so and ask for more information. I have been overseas for years and visit 1-2 times a year. I maintain my residence (dont rent it out), and as far as I am concerned I am a resident of Australia and live there - and I lodge my tax return as such (inc 18K threshold). It is different for CLink because they are paying you a pension (maybe) as they decide each and every application.

It is not a matter of getting around it for ATO, it is a matter of remaining a resident of Australia. You can go overseas as long as you like - as long as it is a holiday/s - you must just reside/live in Australia. There are guidelines and examples - but the real test is where do you consider you live, and what can you provide (if requested) to back up that position. Number one is an address/home - which is where your mail goes and where you are registered for voting - and the add-ons (bank accounts, etc etc). And you dont have to own/rent it - you can live with a family/friend - but it would be best if you did live there for a while before going overseas for any extended period.

This is becoming more and more interesting, especially your last sentence, as I put my mums place down as my address for mail, renewed my NSW drivers licence from over here, voted from over here, have bank accounts in Australia and shares, me on the other hand have my wife and kids here, sounds like I would have to come up with a cracker of a story.

Any good story tellers out there lol ?

georgemandm · August 30, 2016

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I suppose at the end of the day we have to lie to avoid getting caught up in the most ridiculous rule that I have ever come across in my entire life, e.g. if I decide to move to another country to retire and spend my life saving to survive in that country, I should have that right, and I should have the right to pay tax as an Australian resident if my life savings are still invested in Australia, after all, I am not leaning on the government for any old age pension or asking for any discounts, suffice to say, the more and more I research the more and more I find no way out but of this but to be forced to lie, e.g. doesn't pay to be honest, after all they are screwing with my life for their monetary gain to support others off my back. Too lie and advise them that I am an Australian resident for tax purposes, I would have to say that I intend to return before 2 years, e.g. noting one of the questions they ask, e.g.

Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas? No

see below copy and pasted answers to the questions that I lied too.

There is also an ATO disclaimer all should be careful of, also copied and pasted below.

Determination of residency status – leaving Australia
Residency status
Version 2.3.0

You are an Australian resident for taxation purposes after you depart Australia.

You provided the following information

Are you under 16 years of age? No

Are you or your spouse an eligible employee in the CSS or a member of the PSS? No

Are/were you an Australian resident for tax purposes immediately before leaving Australia? Yes

Are you a temporary resident leaving Australia to live in another country (or countries)? No

Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country? No

Where were you born? Australia

What do you consider to be your home country? Australia

Will you spend the majority of your time based in any one place while overseas? No

Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas? No

What to do next

As an Australian resident, you need to continue to lodge annual income tax returns in Australia. In this case:

need to declare worldwide income that you earn, subject to the operation of any international tax treaties. That includes capital gains from the disposal of assets.

will be subject to income tax at resident rates, including the medicare levy.

will be entitled to a full tax-free threshold.

You should keep a copy of this decision for your taxation records.

If you're lodging your tax return online this year, we have free, fast and secure options. For more information, go to www.ato.gov.au/lodgeonline.

More information

For information on:

the Australian income tax system:
access other information on this website

phone 13 28 61 between 8.00am and 6.00pm, Monday to Friday.

how your residency for tax purposes is determined, see Leaving Australia - overview, and related publications on this website.

Notes and disclaimers

This determination is based on the information you have provided.
As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation.

If your circumstances differ from those on which you based your answers in this determination, please use this tool again to assess whether your residency status has changed.

Provide feedback

We would appreciate your feedback on this tool. It should take you around one minute to complete and will help us improve our service.

Disclaimer

This tool gives a decision based on the information you have provided.

As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's a forced chance one has to take then to have to pay additional tax for living in another country, that is if you leave your funds in Australia, looks like I will also have to shift it, that will most likely solve my problem permanently, that and do not return to the lucky country to face any potential music in the future ?

I was told some 30 years ago to never ever tell them anything let them find out for their selfs .

Peterw42 · August 30, 2016

7 minutes ago, georgemandm said:

I was told some 30 years ago to never ever tell them anything let them find out for their selfs .

There is some truth in that statement. The Australian Taxation system is self assessment. So long as you dont start claiming stupid thing, the chances of an audit etc is pretty slim. My Ex wife has a taxation/accounting business and one of her employees is an ex ATO auditor. He says, there are red flags that will tag you for further investigation, claiming overseas travel, primary producer car with a suburban address etc. Also most occupations and business's have ranges of income, expenses and deductions, If you are a Plumber with an income of 100k a year and your expenses are always 95k, that raises a red flag (how are you buying food).

You can always meet someone who insists that they claim there speedboat as a deduction for there truck driving business and have been doing it for years. Its not legal, he just hasn't been caught.

Bighel · August 30, 2016

I have the same problem.Have worked since 15 years old,paid taxes,never claimed anything,then 5 years ago became too ill to work ,went to apply for Newstart( had to apply for it before you can apply for anything else....then you work down the chain)Was told by one of their staff....literally " the cheques in the mail"Then received the rejection letter couple of weeks later.Jumped thru the hoops for sickness benefits( Drs letters etc) not sick enough.Even used the fact that I have indigenous blood in my veins.Rejected!!!! But all the people who were in Centrelinks office were"new"Australians.,claiming benefits and were way better off than me!!! 18 mths ago tried for pension......was I surprised at the answer.So much for the govt looking after their own.Am living off the leftovers of a divorce.At least in Thailand I will be able to live longer off it than if I was living in my birth country,that's for sure.Govt looks after their own and refugees etc,but her own citizens who have given blood sweat and tears,are not acknowledged.My rant done....makes my blood boil whenever I think about it!

louse1953 · August 30, 2016

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I suppose at the end of the day we have to lie to avoid getting caught up in the most ridiculous rule that I have ever come across in my entire life, e.g. if I decide to move to another country to retire and spend my life saving to survive in that country, I should have that right, and I should have the right to pay tax as an Australian resident if my life savings are still invested in Australia, after all, I am not leaning on the government for any old age pension or asking for any discounts, suffice to say, the more and more I research the more and more I find no way out but of this but to be forced to lie, e.g. doesn't pay to be honest, after all they are screwing with my life for their monetary gain to support others off my back. Too lie and advise them that I am an Australian resident for tax purposes, I would have to say that I intend to return before 2 years, e.g. noting one of the questions they ask, e.g.

Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas? No

see below copy and pasted answers to the questions that I lied too.

There is also an ATO disclaimer all should be careful of, also copied and pasted below.

Determination of residency status – leaving Australia
Residency status
Version 2.3.0

You are an Australian resident for taxation purposes after you depart Australia.

You provided the following information

Are you under 16 years of age? No

Are you or your spouse an eligible employee in the CSS or a member of the PSS? No

Are/were you an Australian resident for tax purposes immediately before leaving Australia? Yes

Are you a temporary resident leaving Australia to live in another country (or countries)? No

Are you an Australian resident who is emigrating to live permanently in another country? No

Where were you born? Australia

What do you consider to be your home country? Australia

Will you spend the majority of your time based in any one place while overseas? No

Will you spend two years or more based in any one place one place while overseas? No

What to do next

As an Australian resident, you need to continue to lodge annual income tax returns in Australia. In this case:

need to declare worldwide income that you earn, subject to the operation of any international tax treaties. That includes capital gains from the disposal of assets.

will be subject to income tax at resident rates, including the medicare levy.

will be entitled to a full tax-free threshold.

You should keep a copy of this decision for your taxation records.

If you're lodging your tax return online this year, we have free, fast and secure options. For more information, go to www.ato.gov.au/lodgeonline.

More information

For information on:

the Australian income tax system:
access other information on this website

phone 13 28 61 between 8.00am and 6.00pm, Monday to Friday.

how your residency for tax purposes is determined, see Leaving Australia - overview, and related publications on this website.

Notes and disclaimers

This determination is based on the information you have provided.
As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation.

If your circumstances differ from those on which you based your answers in this determination, please use this tool again to assess whether your residency status has changed.

Provide feedback

We would appreciate your feedback on this tool. It should take you around one minute to complete and will help us improve our service.

Disclaimer

This tool gives a decision based on the information you have provided.

As a result is based solely on your answers, the outcome is not binding on the ATO. Whether or not you are an Australian resident for tax purposes will be determined on the actual facts of your situation.

I suppose at the end of the day, it's a forced chance one has to take then to have to pay additional tax for living in another country, that is if you leave your funds in Australia, looks like I will also have to shift it, that will most likely solve my problem permanently, that and do not return to the lucky country to face any potential music in the future ?

Well you did intend,then you changed your mind.Not against the law to change your mind is it?

louse1953 · August 30, 2016

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

No tax on income stream, I like that, but my understanding is also no tax after 60 lump sum ?

The 6 year rule applies if you purchased the property and moved into it straight away, not for me as I already owned a place, then sold that a year later and moved into the other one that I purchase a year earlier as the market was going spastic upwards in Sydney, which I recently sold, so I couldn't use the 6 year rule as I didn't move into it straight away, talk about "suck"

Yes,you a right about lump sum.

Bob9 · August 30, 2016

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

This is becoming more and more interesting, especially your last sentence, as I put my mums place down as my address for mail, renewed my NSW drivers licence from over here, voted from over here, have bank accounts in Australia and shares, me on the other hand have my wife and kids here, sounds like I would have to come up with a cracker of a story.

Any good story tellers out there lol ?

Judging by your story - there is a way forward. But firstly lets talk about what is taxed and how it is taxed when you are a non-resident (for tax purposed). As far as I am aware (99.999% sure) you are not taxed on Super payments received, nor on any Super withdrawals (post 60), nor withdrawals from bank accounts etc., and not on interest earned in Super accounts (I bet they change that one day).

What you are taxed on is any income earned in Australia (not what earned overseas) - interest earned (eg bank accounts), rental monies (net), dividends (not franked), salaries/payments, etc. You are not taxed on Govt pensions and super account pensions/payments and franked dividends (or any other tax-free payments) - but keep in mind that if you are a resident for tax purposes, they are added to your income for the 18K threshold.

How you are taxed as a non-resident is at the marginal rate (32.5%) on EVERY dollar of income earned in Australia. There is no threshold for a non-resident. I know of one bloke that was earning money from renting out his home while overseas (and interest in an investment account), and was declared a non-resident after review, and had a back tax bill of $62K. Because his assets were in Australia he had no chance to do a runner - he had to go back to Aust and pay off the tax bill (and re-organise his finances).

So the issue is - do you really want to be a resident for tax purposes?? It doesn't mean much for getting approved for the age pension (CLink use their own method). If you answered yes because you are earning income that is taxable in Australia, then the first question I would ask is : Does the Aust Govt or anyone else (besides Mother) know that you have a wife and kids and live here?

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

4 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Well you did intend,then you changed your mind.Not against the law to change your mind is it?

I learn't a very very long time ago from my late brother, God rest his soul, that you NEVER admit, for whatever reason when it comes to authority, so we will have to say that I never intended to stay, I had a return ticket, but didn't return because I didn't want to go back without the kids, you see Mr ATO my wife and I agreed to separate with me coming back to Australia, but I couldn't do it.

Whether they take the bait or not is worth a shot, because giving them the extra $'s is a crime, I am all for paying tax as an Australian resident, don't get me wrong, but not as a foreign resident, especially when I hear that if a Muslim (nothing against the race), has 4 wives under Sharia Law, all of his wives are entitled to Centrelink payments including all the kids from the 4 wives, somebody please make sense of this for me FCOFL

Edited August 30, 2016 by 4MyEgo

4MyEgo · August 30, 2016

17 minutes ago, Bob9 said:

Judging by your story - there is a way forward. But firstly lets talk about what is taxed and how it is taxed when you are a non-resident (for tax purposed). As far as I am aware (99.999% sure) you are not taxed on Super payments received, nor on any Super withdrawals (post 60), nor withdrawals from bank accounts etc., and not on interest earned in Super accounts (I bet they change that one day).

What you are taxed on is any income earned in Australia (not what earned overseas) - interest earned (eg bank accounts), rental monies (net), dividends (not franked), salaries/payments, etc. You are not taxed on Govt pensions and super account pensions/payments and franked dividends (or any other tax-free payments) - but keep in mind that if you are a resident for tax purposes, they are added to your income for the 18K threshold.

How you are taxed as a non-resident is at the marginal rate (32.5%) on EVERY dollar of income earned in Australia. There is no threshold for a non-resident. I know of one bloke that was earning money from renting out his home while overseas (and interest in an investment account), and was declared a non-resident after review, and had a back tax bill of $62K. Because his assets were in Australia he had no chance to do a runner - he had to go back to Aust and pay off the tax bill (and re-organise his finances).

So the issue is - do you really want to be a resident for tax purposes?? It doesn't mean much for getting approved for the age pension (CLink use their own method). If you answered yes because you are earning income that is taxable in Australia, then the first question I would ask is : Does the Aust Govt or anyone else (besides Mother) know that you have a wife and kids and live here?

You are correct in all the above, unfortunately Centrelink does, as they advised us after being 6 weeks out of the country that Border Control or whatever they call themselves advised them, and as we are absent any payments such as family A & B will cease until we return, I am not entitled to family A & B as I earned too much, so don't know why they had to advise me, probably standard procedure, e.g. on the system, now if they did that, I am sure they advise the ATO ?

The only gripe I have is the first financial year that I have to do my tax return being a foreign resident, it goes like this:

I worked 5 months, July to November, then I came here and have been here since, so I am over the 183 days, in June I sold a property which was originally purchased as an investment property, then I moved into it, so I have capital gains tax to pay on that on a pro-rata basis, fair enough, what erks me is that I don't believe that I should have to pay 32.5 cents for the first $80,000 then 37.5 cents after that, its a crime, having worked it out, we are talking $15k the difference as a minimum, that's about 400,000 baht or a years survival money here, for what being a foreign resident 7 months, just over the 183 days.

Not fair, if anyone can tell me different it would be appreciated.

Peterw42 · August 30, 2016

10 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I learn't a very very long time ago from my late brother, God rest his soul, that you NEVER admit, for whatever reason when it comes to authority, so we will have to say that I never intended to stay, I had a return ticket, but didn't return because I didn't want to go back without the kids, you see Mr ATO my wife and I agreed to separate with me coming back to Australia, but I couldn't do it.

Whether they take the bait or not is worth a shot, because giving them the extra $'s is a crime, I am all for paying tax as an Australian resident, don't get me wrong, but not as a foreign resident, especially when I hear that if a Muslim (nothing against the race), has 4 wives under Sharia Law, all of his wives are entitled to Centrelink payments including all the kids from the 4 wives, somebody please make sense of this for me FCOFL

Careing for a sick spouse or family member would probably be accepted by ATO as a reason you dont reside in Australia. And retain resident status.

Sign In

An Australian trying to retire in Thailand

Recommended Posts

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Bob9

dhream

Aussie69

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Topics

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US