Prenup in Thailand

[Thailimpan]

Do a prenup agreement hold up in a Thai court? If the prenup references that the laws of the husband's or third party country should apply, would they respect that?

 

Please, this is not a thread about prenuptial agreements as such, just two direct questions that may or may not have two simple answers. 

[happylarry]

The prenup basically is just a list of pre marital assets, so it can make things easier but doesn't alter the judges decision about whether to grant 50/50 or some other percentage either way.

Of course the Thai courts wont go by the laws of a different country. Do you think the British or American courts would try somebody using another countries laws, of course not....lol

HL

[manfredtillmann]

it is my opinion that prenup's are not legal instruments but are simply designed to portrait both parties wishes at the time of marriage.

no court will accept them as anything other than guidance.

wife and i made one ourselves prior and to me it was just another obstacle placed in front of her in case she decides to claim once i am dead.

[blackcab]

Prenups are legal. You have to present a copy at the Amphur when you marry, and it is stored there. The fact a Prenup was handed in is recorded on the marriage document both parties sign to get married.

[happylarry]

4 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Prenups are legal. You have to present a copy at the Amphur when you marry, and it is stored there. The fact a Prenup was handed in is recorded on the marriage document both parties sign to get married.

You ""have"" to present a copy at the amphur.

Well I for one didn't and I don't think many people do, so are you saying we are all breaking the law by not doing so?  Regardless of whether a prenup is recorded on the document BC, it is still only for guidance as Manfred said. It will make no difference to the outcome simply because the law only considers assets accrued during the marriage.

HL

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, happylarry said:

You ""have"" to present a copy at the amphur.

Well I for one didn't and I don't think many people do, so are you saying we are all breaking the law by not doing so?  Regardless of whether a prenup is recorded on the document BC, it is still only for guidance as Manfred said. It will make no difference to the outcome simply because the law only considers assets accrued during the marriage.

HL

 

Apologies, I could have said that better. You have to hand in your prenup at the Amphur on the day you register your marriage if you want the prenup to be recognised in Thai law. If you don't hand in your prenup as I mentioned, it is void. (Section  1466 of the CCC, quoted below). As such, if you are going to have a prenup it makes sense to get that bit right.

 

When the prenup is handed in it will be noted in the Addendum on you Khor Ror 2. I have attached a translation of such an Addendum.

 

You are completely right in that the Court will make its own decision regardless of whether there is a prenup or not. That is the thing with prenups - I think people believe a prenup will guard them against anything and everything, when that is not their purpose.

 

Section 1466. The ante-nuptial agreement is void if not entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration terms of the ante-nuptial; or if not made in writing and signed by both spouses and by at least two witnesses and entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration stating that the ante-nuptial is thereto annexed.

[Thailimpan]

On 8/29/2016 at 8:06 AM, happylarry said:

The prenup basically is just a list of pre marital assets, so it can make things easier but doesn't alter the judges decision about whether to grant 50/50 or some other percentage either way.

Of course the Thai courts wont go by the laws of a different country. Do you think the British or American courts would try somebody using another countries laws, of course not....lol

HL

Thank you for your comment. Family law is quite complex. I do know US courts will uphold prenup agreements  referencing other countries laws but it do differ from state to state. In addition I have personal experience, I was divorced in the US, if I had divorced my ex within 3 years after arriving the US from Europe, my European home country law would have applied to the divorce as per International treaty signed by a number of countries but in the case of the US not ratified by each state. 

[Thailimpan]

On 8/29/2016 at 9:16 AM, happylarry said:

You ""have"" to present a copy at the amphur.

Well I for one didn't and I don't think many people do, so are you saying we are all breaking the law by not doing so?  Regardless of whether a prenup is recorded on the document BC, it is still only for guidance as Manfred said. It will make no difference to the outcome simply because the law only considers assets accrued during the marriage.

HL

If you don't follow procedure, you are not "breaking the law", you just lost your legal right to excrecise the prenup  because you didn't adhere to the rules.

[Thailimpan]

On 8/29/2016 at 0:16 PM, blackcab said:

 

Apologies, I could have said that better. You have to hand in your prenup at the Amphur on the day you register your marriage if you want the prenup to be recognised in Thai law. If you don't hand in your prenup as I mentioned, it is void. (Section  1466 of the CCC, quoted below). As such, if you are going to have a prenup it makes sense to get that bit right.

 

When the prenup is handed in it will be noted in the Addendum on you Khor Ror 2. I have attached a translation of such an Addendum.

 

You are completely right in that the Court will make its own decision regardless of whether there is a prenup or not. That is the thing with prenups - I think people believe a prenup will guard them against anything and everything, when that is not their purpose.

 

Section 1466. The ante-nuptial agreement is void if not entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration terms of the ante-nuptial; or if not made in writing and signed by both spouses and by at least two witnesses and entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration stating that the ante-nuptial is thereto annexed.

Thank you for a very informative post.

[williamgeorgeallen]

dont get married then you wont need a prenup. no idea why any man would get married here, gives your future ex wife rights to taking your stuff. 

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

dont get married then you wont need a prenup. no idea why any man would get married here, gives your future ex wife rights to taking your stuff. 

Well, unless she has more than you; or you have  nothing.

[williamgeorgeallen]

43 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Well, unless she has more than you; or you have  nothing.

yes good point. pretty rare but possible i suppose.

[Grubster]

5 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

dont get married then you wont need a prenup. no idea why any man would get married here, gives your future ex wife rights to taking your stuff. 

40,000 baht more for my pension and 120,000 baht in tax savings per year is why I am going to. Also if I live ten years after we are married she will get 50,000 baht per month of my pension after I die until the day she dies. If she divorces me she gets half of anything we buy together but nothing else, Pension rules can't be changed by any judge.

[manfredtillmann]

On 8/29/2016 at 8:06 PM, blackcab said:

Prenups are legal. You have to present a copy at the Amphur when you marry, and it is stored there. The fact a Prenup was handed in is recorded on the marriage document both parties sign to get married.

if you are australian... the very best of luck to you, mate.

chances are oz courts won't even look at it.

 

[bazza40]

8 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

if you are australian... the very best of luck to you, mate.

chances are oz courts won't even look at it.

 

Keep It Simple Stupid. The OP would do better by ensuring the assets he does not want to lose stay outside Thailand.

I don't think the OP's Australian.  Centrelink would be docking his pension, not increasing it.

[manfredtillmann]

2 minutes ago, bazza40 said:

Keep It Simple Stupid. The OP would do better by ensuring the assets he does not want to lose stay outside Thailand.

I don't think the OP's Australian.  Centrelink would be docking his pension, not increasing it.

simple and stupid?

i don't know what nationality the op is but s/he is referring to 'a third party country'.

if s/he is i.e. australian, and legally married to a thai, than the ruling of the thai court could be completely irrelevant if the spouse applies for settlement rulings in oz. the thai partner would be able to, and most likely succeed, in laying claim to 50% of his / her partners assets. no matter what the pre nup states.

[bazza40]

14 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

simple and stupid?

i don't know what nationality the op is but s/he is referring to 'a third party country'.

if s/he is i.e. australian, and legally married to a thai, than the ruling of the thai court could be completely irrelevant if the spouse applies for settlement rulings in oz. the thai partner would be able to, and most likely succeed, in laying claim to 50% of his / her partners assets. no matter what the pre nup states.

I think you've misinterpreted my post. The KISS principle is well known in management jargon ( Keep It Simple Stupid ). I was applying it to the OP's situation, not to you.

I entirely agree Australian family courts have power to set aside prior agreements, because that's what happened to me with a defacto. Only cost me $310,000. Australia is actually a legal dictatorship. The only documents with any legal standing are a Binding Financial Agreement, sanctioned by the Family Court, or Family Court orders.

Not surprisingly, I refuse to get married here, even though my Thai GF would love it. I've shown my commitment in other ways.

[Acharn]

17 hours ago, Thailimpan said:

Thank you for your comment. Family law is quite complex. I do know US courts will uphold prenup agreements  referencing other countries laws but it do differ from state to state. In addition I have personal experience, I was divorced in the US, if I had divorced my ex within 3 years after arriving the US from Europe, my European home country law would have applied to the divorce as per International treaty signed by a number of countries but in the case of the US not ratified by each state. 

Minor quibble here, or maybe you were just being careless with the language. Under the U.S. constitution, international treaties are ratified by the President if the Senate approves them. Once one has been ratified, the treaty is "the law of the land," and must be followed by all states. Very likely the Senate has not approved the treaty you mention, or maybe the State Department has not yet negotiated particular exceptions they want so the President has not yet sent it to the Senate for consideration. In any case, if there is a state not following the provisions of the treaty, it means the U.S. has not ratified it. The states do not ratify treaties.

[redbarron]

for those who are considering getting a prenup they help, but if you really want to protect your US assets get a revocable living trust.

[williamgeorgeallen]

9 hours ago, Grubster said:

40,000 baht more for my pension and 120,000 baht in tax savings per year is why I am going to. Also if I live ten years after we are married she will get 50,000 baht per month of my pension after I die until the day she dies. If she divorces me she gets half of anything we buy together but nothing else, Pension rules can't be changed by any judge.

good points. i am a long way off retiring so i had not considered pensions.

[stevew407]

Very good thread.  As I like to say more and more lately, it's simple and it's complex.  So on we go. Just posted elsewhere too.  Considering a UNOFFICIAL THAI wedding while waiting for the USA and fiancee Visa. I have been married once and said never again, but have found the love of my life again.  She is good with a Prenuptial agreement so I have to be good with a marriage.  I am 64 and she is 34. So we are trying to figure out the rest of our live's together. She has never been married and has been lied to about marriage by others, so I want to do the right thing and give her what she wants and needs in legitimacy too.  Any help or comments are appreciated.  Taking the sum of the parts theory here as it gets used against me so much by big corporate America - I believe in the power of numbers, but also see that people don't want to think or work too much either if that makes any sense..........I have a hard time writing my thoughts out rather than a verbal discussions.  Peace, love and happiness. 

[happylarry]

UNOFFICIAL THAI wedding's are simply parties put on for relatives and neighbours so that the bride's family can save face. You are not married in any way which is why you don't need to get divorced after......lol

If it makes your lady happy and you don't mind feeding and watering many people then why not but do not be under the impression that you are then married.

HL