Received warning at Ban Laem checkpoint; Alternatives?

[jackspade]

I did a border run a couple of days ago from BKK to Ban Laem Cambodia. On the way back into Thailand, I was held up for a good 5 minutes at the entry window. Apparently my 7 consecutive van entries* on a visa-exempt entry (the purple stamp) triggered a warning in their system. Finally, the guard chuckled and then turned his monitor toward me so I could see what the problem was. There was a warning on his screen which was probably triggered by my multiple entries. Finally, he smiled at me apologetically and let me proceed.

*(Note: 4 of these entries were done in 2015, the other 3 were done this year; both separated by 8 months in my home country.)

 

Needless to say, I'm now wondering what my options are, aside from getting married, getting a work/education visa, flying back to the US. Of course, I could continue going to Ban Laem and crossing my fingers, but I don't think the risk is worth it now. The thing is, I don't know exactly how the entry system works. Are the border points connected by an online database or can I just start going somewhere else? Here are what I THINK are my options. Please let me know if I have something wrong here. I can either:

 

1. Find another entry point to go to. Will the warning carry over or will I be considered a "border virgin" to their system? (Note: Vientiane probably isn't an option as I received a warning from them after going there just twice, 6 months apart).

2. Get a new passport from my Embassy. If I were to pursue this route, how would I have to go about it? Would I be able to obtain a new passport without getting my stamps transferred?

 

Any advice would help...

Edited September 1, 2016 by jackspade

[anotheruser]

These days if you are even going to bother with the expense and hassle of an ED visa you might as well look at Thai Elite.

[BritTim]

From your description, I would continue to use Ban Laem. The warning will occur wherever you enter and the reaction of the immigration official is the critical point. It seems your IO was willing to allow the entry because they were not all back-to-back. Some IOs have a stricter interpretation. You were lucky. By the way, by "tourist entry", I assume you mean "visa exempt entry". Could you confirm that.

[jackspade]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

From your description, I would continue to use Ban Laem. The warning will occur wherever you enter and the reaction of the immigration official is the critical point. It seems your IO was willing to allow the entry because they were not all back-to-back. Some IOs have a stricter interpretation. You were lucky. By the way, by "tourist entry", I assume you mean "visa exempt entry". Could you confirm that.

 

Yes, I mean the purple visa exempt stamp. I've updated my post.

[ubonjoe]

The 6 entry warning is from the main immigration database. It will not help to try another crossing. A new passport does not erase your records in immigration's database since they will link your passports.

This from a companies website that does the runs to Ban Laem that was updated on August 26th.

Quote

Visa exempt, 15/30 day stamp, Thai Immigration Ban Laem give 3 visa exempt stamp per calendar year. After that you go to a Thai Embassy to apply for SETV or Non Immigrant Visa.

Source: http://www.thaivisaservice.com/

You probably would of been turned away or denied entry at Poi Pet.

You might be able to use a crossing that does not get a lot of border runners.  Or fly out and back.

Have you been getting 30 day extensions of your entries at immigration?

[darrendsd]

As UbonJoe states above www.thaivisaservice.com state that 3 are allowed each year, as this was your 4th this year this is probably what triggered the alert

 

If the info on www.thaivisaservice.com is correct then you should be ok from next January onwards however I check that site for updates a lot and the rules do seem to change every few months

 

I have been there twice this year with no issues, I am due to go again in November so always keep a eye on the  latest developments at that border

[darrendsd]

Just to add to the above getting a new PP would help in regards to getting a TV from Vientiane, they count how many visas you have had in your current PP not overall visas issued in all previous PP's

[bkkrooftop]

This only happens on visa exempt entries, correct?  If you get a 60 day tourist visa ahead of time. Does it come up as any red flags?  Assuming there are only a couple every year?  

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, bkkrooftop said:

This only happens on visa exempt entries, correct?  If you get a 60 day tourist visa ahead of time. Does it come up as any red flags?  Assuming there are only a couple every year?  

 

A couple of tourist visas a year is no problem for sure. The immigration officials can see the complete history of your entries and I get the impression they are beginning to look at people staying continually (or nearly so) in Thailand on tourist visas. My guess is that there will be a crackdown on those staying more than, say, 21 months out of 24 here in Thailand on tourist visas, but it has not happened yet.

[little mary sunshine]

On their information system now, same

at each entry point!

[eskatonia]

6 hours ago, anotheruser said:

These days if you are even going to bother with the expense and hassle of an ED visa you might as well look at Thai Elite.

 

Or just move somewhere else in SEA.  Forom discussions with friends there both Cambodia and Vietnam are dead simple to stay long term.  Cambodia gives a 1 year visa on request.  Vietnam you an just keep renewing your tourist visa inside the country, go to the immigration office once every 90 days and done.  Laos is apparently also much easier than Thailand but I don't know the details.

Edited September 1, 2016 by eskatonia

[anotheruser]

3 minutes ago, eskatonia said:

 

Or just move somewhere else in SEA.  For discussions with friends there both Cambodia and Vietnam are dead simple to stay long term.  Cambodia gives a 1 year visa on request.  Vietnam you an just keep renewing your tourist visa inside the country, go to the immigration office once every 90 days and done.  Laos is apparently also much easier than Thailand but I don't know the details.

 

That is a possibility. However moving to Cambodia won't get the OP a visa for Thailand and that's what this thread is about.

[eskatonia]

2 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

That is a possibility. However moving to Cambodia won't get the OP a visa for Thailand and that's what this thread is about.

 

Ok sure but since the OP didn't mention a wife or anything else that ties him to Thailand specifically I thought this was useful information.  Sometimes the best advice is actually "give up and go somewhere else"

Edited September 1, 2016 by eskatonia

[JackThompson]

If I understand correctly, this was a consecutive visa-exempt entry.  If you intend to stay here, you need to go out and get TouristVisas.  Thus far, very few people have ever been turned away with a valid TouristVisa. 

 

That policy may change in the future - but for now, it is a way to continue.  Do be prepared for the day it might change, and avoid "troublesome" entry points for exit or return, like Poipet, in the meantime.

[anotheruser]

Just trying to steer this away from a Thailand vs the rest of SEA sort of thread. We have had many of them already on this site.  

 

Although it does seem like the ED visa is becoming a waste of time these days.

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

Just trying to steer this away from a Thailand vs the rest of SEA sort of thread. We have had many of them already on this site.  

 

Although it does seem like the ED visa is becoming a waste of time these days.

 

Not from what I have heard.  Just change to a new language every year or so, pay an extra fee every 3 mo to avoid any hassle with the extensions, and once a year get paperwork and go on a visa run.  The total cost for all that is under 50K Baht/yr, and payable as you go.  If any new issues with Tourist Visas arise, that will be my next option.

[eskatonia]

Just now, JackThompson said:

 

Not from what I have heard.  Just change to a new language every year or so, pay an extra fee every 3 mo to avoid any hassle with the extensions, and once a year get paperwork and go on a visa run.  The total cost for all that is under 50K Baht/yr, and payable as you go.  If any new issues with Tourist Visas arise, that will be my next option.

 

I think it depends which immigration office.  Some of them are very strict on ED visa's and some are very lenient.  I have friends who've been harassed on ED visa's, forced to do language competency tests and only given 30 day extensions instead of 90 days.  Also if you don't actually learn the language you're breaking the law and some people don't want to have to study a language to stay here.

[anotheruser]

Well on the bright side you will know at least 12 different languages soon. Don't forget to count the hours you spend in a classroom as well as the 50K per year. Though if that is worth it to you then go for it. 

 

I looked into doing it before going with the Elite and it just seemed too much trouble for me. Horses for courses, I suppose.

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, eskatonia said:

 

I think it depends which immigration office.  Some of them are very strict on ED visa's and some are very lenient.  I have friends who've been harassed on ED visa's, forced to do language competency tests and only given 30 day extensions instead of 90 days.  Also if you don't actually learn the language you're breaking the law and some people don't want to have to study a language to stay here.

 

It appears those having trouble are not attending the 'right schools' with the proper connections.  In the lenient areas, I assume those offices are not working the 'fee' system, so no reason to make trouble to push people into said system.

 

19 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Well on the bright side you will know at least 12 different languages soon. Don't forget to count the hours you spend in a classroom as well as the 50K per year. Though if that is worth it to you then go for it. 

 

I looked into doing it before going with the Elite and it just seemed too much trouble for me. Horses for courses, I suppose.

 

If Tourist Visas died tomorrow, I would have to study Thai for 18 months, then one more to reach the "magic 50" age-number (when I would abruptly become too mentally or physically disabled to be incorrectly-suspected of working illegally, or something) - but the younger folks could become quite fluent in many languages, I suppose. 

 

Anyone with the spare-cash on-hand to pay for 5 or 10 years of visas in advance - sure, Elite will work for them.  For the rest of us, we have this forum to look for other ways.

[Ronuk]

Thailand is fast catching up with the rest of the world when it comes to people entering and staying long term on the correct type of visas. The days of staying as long as you like and doing whatever you like on whichever visa and visa exempt are coming to an end. People are still welcome but the correct procedures are now starting to be implemented by immigration. They are doing no more than implementing the rules which are already there.

I see big changes in the next 12 months, particularly the way agents are being allowed to carry on.

[elviajero]

Was this entry your 7th and 3rd this year, or 8th and 4th?

[SEEDGER]

Why don't you just get a visa! I don't understand you guys and the continually Tourist non sense! Apply for a Non Immigrant B visa and plop down about a grand and then no more hassle. Just border runs every 90 days. This was the least expensive way while I was over there in 2014-2015. And I'm from the US also.

[BritTim]

13 minutes ago, SEEDGER said:

Why don't you just get a visa! I don't understand you guys and the continually Tourist non sense! Apply for a Non Immigrant B visa and plop down about a grand and then no more hassle. Just border runs every 90 days. This was the least expensive way while I was over there in 2014-2015. And I'm from the US also.

 

Times have changed. When re-entering on a Non B visa these days, immigration often want to see your work permit. Getting the work permit is a bit harder than formerly. These days, for a yank, the sole proprietorship under treaty of amity is probably the cleanest option. For most nationalities, it is hard.

[Seraphina]

Hi Jackspade, I'd like to respond to your second question (the possibility of obtaining a new passport) because , so far, only Ubonjoe seems to have addressed it. I agree with him.

 

As a general rule, if you apply for two consecutive passports, they are always linked at the issue source. Therefore subservient databases will have the same information. If you have a valid visa in an out-of-date passport, you would have to present both passports.

 

I know it's possible to have two concurrent British passports because I had two whilst I lived in Dubai and so did my partner. My original passport was issued in the UK, the second in China. You just have to be very careful about which passport you use for the entry and exit stamps. So, for example, you can't present a new passport with no entry stamp when you're trying to exit the country or you'll have some explaining to do!

 

In summary, consecutive passports are always linked. You would have to provide a very solid backstory to your Embassy in order to persuade them why they shouldn't be....but it's possible.

[Dumbastheycome]

Fascinating ! The emphasis as  usual is on how to avoid having to go home ! No detail on  why an individual  desires to continue  stay in Thailand and no evidence of any desire to actually  naturalize but seeking to extend  fatuous reason to linger.

So is it any surprise  Thai Immigration  has introduced elements  of notification in the absence  of reasonable  cause?

Perpetually  drunk  and  shagging is beyond the  capacity  of  beaurocratic acceptance now.

 

[Thaidream]

If I was single and under 50, I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. There is nothing in Thailand I cannot find somewhere else . 

[Odin Norway]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If I was single and under 50, I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. There is nothing in Thailand I cannot find somewhere else . 

The best and cheapest way is to go to an embassy in Lao or maybe Cambodia and get a 3 month visa.If you are under 50 years,not married and live here.

If you fly out and in again they always give you 30 days.I am not sure  if there is a rule on how many days you need to be outside before you return.

I have done that for the last 8 years and only been stopped one time in Bangkok for questions.That is now 8 months ago and I think they wrote my

answers into the computer because I havent been stopped after that.

As it is now there is no 1 year visa for us under 50 that is not married so we do fall between 2 chairs.Unless we go back

to our own country and get a 1 year from there.

I will continue do it this way until they stop me again.Then they wil need to show me where it say that I am not alowed to do so.

Im now close to 80 trips since 2008 so I think the red lamps should be blinking hard if I couldnt.

[JayBeeee]

34 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If I was single and under 50, I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. There is nothing in Thailand I cannot find somewhere else . 

It's not always a case of being in search of something; what of those of us who have laid roots and have a home and a life here? There was a greater degree of security for the under 50s until the recent shakeup. Suddenly people have to find a way to get around regulations which have never been applied. Even after previous rule-tightening exercises, we could be reasonably certain that they would soon be loosened again, but it's a little more serious nowadays, what with the General's attempts to change things permanently.

I don't think wandering from country to country is the answer. Perhaps a change of status in order to qualify for one of the long-term options might be worth looking into. Ubon Joe or Darren would be the folks to talk to for ideas.

[hawker9000]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

A couple of tourist visas a year is no problem for sure. The immigration officials can see the complete history of your entries and I get the impression they are beginning to look at people staying continually (or nearly so) in Thailand on tourist visas. My guess is that there will be a crackdown on those staying more than, say, 21 months out of 24 here in Thailand on tourist visas, but it has not happened yet.

 

I think they've been "looking at" the possible use by foreigners of tourist visas and visa-exempt to reside in Thailand since 2014.  Although the complete record - i.e., spans passports - DOES come up on their computer screens and they can see your entire history, they haven't really thought up or applied any consistent rules or criteria to prevent this yet.  The 3-in-a-year limit on visa-exempt entries would seem to be an attempt at such a rule; we'll see if it becomes universally enforced.  (3x30d visa-exempt + a 30d extension on each would actually allow someone to be in Thailand for 180d...)   I have little doubt that Tourist Visa holders will eventually be subject to the same fishing net (that is, a series of them back-to-back or nearly back-to-back suggesting to IOs that the holder is using them to live in Thailand).

 

I'm not sure that the consulates issuing visas have access to this same information database, or if they do that they routinely use it.  Yet.

 

[Ronuk]

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If I was single and under 50, I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. There is nothing in Thailand I cannot find somewhere else . 

Nonsense? The UK has just voted for a recession over uncontrolled immigration. Is it now the case that the 'Big White Hunter' is allowed to enter and stay as long as he likes,regardless of the countries immigration policy? The only nonsense is that Thailand has let it happen for so long.