Foreigner staying in Thai house

[MalandLee]

For some years, we have done "Couchsurfing" and "Warmshowers". For those that do not know, these are  social networks, where mainly young people come and stay with someone in whichever country they are travelling, for a few nights. We have hosted over 40 people, ranging from 1 night to 5 nights.  It has been interesting and rewarding, meeting people from many cultures, belief systems and countries around our world.

 

Recently I returned from my country with a multi entry retirement visa. After some days (a week or so I guess) I went to my local immigration to get a statement confirming my address, which I needed for my driving licence. My wife was fined 800 Baht for not reporting me to immigration within 24hrs of my entry into "her" house. There were many Thai & Burmese outside in the same predicament at the time I was there. (Being Fined).

 

My question is - can we continue with our "hobby" of hosting young people?

 

Hotels (I believe) can report people staying, online. We cannot! Reporting to immigration with all the “queues” and time it takes, plus the "genuine fear" associated with even going to immigration countless times a year - (we may be "investigated") does not see to be an option.

 

I know these “rules” have been on the books “forever” so please don’t remind me of that, I also know under Myanmar’s military rule, it was (is??) illegal to even stay in a house/dwelling that was not an approved hotel – I sincerely hope we are not heading down that road.

 

Anyone out there more up to date with all these rules?

 

I am not a regular contributor so may have the wrong forum, please let me know which forum I should be using, if that is the case.

[NickJ]

I think, you can report them at a regular local police station. If Immigration is far away or maybe even crowded. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by NickJ
None

[ubonjoe]

Unless your guests need to do something at immigration you should not have a problem for not reporting them by submitting a TM30 form. 

I base this on the assumption your are not operating as a hotel or guesthouse.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, NickJ said:

I think, you can report them at a regular local police station. 

Most police stations will not accept the reports since they consider it to be immigration's job.

[MalandLee]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Unless your guests need to do something at immigration you should not have a problem for not reporting them by submitting a TM30 form. 

I base this on the assumption your are not operating as a hotel or guesthouse.

No UbonJoe, there is no fee WHATSOEVER associated with this, in fact their stay actually costs us a small amount in increased utility charges. We also drive them to local attractions - many of which are off the tourist map. Plus we often pick up from the train, airport, bus, etc.. for FREE.

Subjective I know, but our local community has benefited from "new money" being spent on a variety of purchases within the village. Not sure what (if any) downsides there are - but I am certain someone will think of some.

 

My British friend is aware of my wife's "fine" - he is retired here with his British wife - they are to be hosting their relatives, Son, daughter(s) and respective spouses/children.  They are "sticklers" for doing everything by the book - they too may be reading this thread with interest. As, I believe, they too must report their family to immigration???? - they did not know this.

[IMA_FARANG]

It is required that the property owner report those foriegners staying with them on their property within 24 hours of their arrival.

Thia is actually an old law, I believe from back in the 1990 era.

it, as many laws in Thailand, has often not been enforced closely, especially in utban areas but recently (within the last year or so) there has been more pressure from "higher up" for the police to be more alert to "security".

That is why the law is being asked about more often.

[MalandLee]

Thank you to all members who have contributed. I have downloaded the TM30 as per Ubonjoe's advice. Although it is a 34 kilometre round trip and an unknown length of time we must wait in immigration - If I want social media guests, family or friends to stay here, then I ignore the law at my peril. Because my wife already got fined for me being in the house, a second offence may be more severe.

How others choose to interpret the laws is up to them and of course the consequences are theirs.

In 20 years we have felt a degree of carefree freedom, we have already decided to return to my homeland early next year. I think we will remain there as we both love the country.

We love Thailand too but of late we feel less welcome. Personally I am just as happy in my homeland, however, this was not always the case. We will put our home in my mother in laws name - we both love her, she truly is a nice person. It will remain empty and we will hire an older villager to maintain the place.  

Not sure Thailand will ever  return to those days of "mai pen rai".

Edited September 7, 2016 by MalandLee

[richard_smith237]

I wonder how this law works for those of us who rent property ?

 

My Wife and I are both on our rental agreement (Bangkok)... I regularly in and out of Thailand.... 

 

The owners of my Condo do not live in country. Would I have to submit the TM30 repot reach time I return (or someone on behalf of the Condo owners) ?

 

This seems like one of those particularly inane regulations which most if not all ignore and then face frustration when someone in authority feigns affront over abuse against the 'system' !..... 

[MalandLee]

Hi Richard,

 

Last year we had a similar situation, my wife paid the fine on behalf of the owners of the property we rented - either that or the bureaucratic nightmare of facing the establishment, given the owner was very sick & not available - she later died.

I am not suggesting "Thais" will not pay this, but, I heard (NO PROOF POSITIVE) that Burmese, Thai Yai, etc.. caught up in this are being told by their Thai landlords that they must pay.

As far as I have learned today, the landlord only needs submit 1, TM30, until you leave. Your travel plans are not recorded? I am not certain. If you are married to a Thai, AND are concerned - just submit the form yourself, pay the 800 Baht and get on with your life.

Hopefully someone knows for certain Richard

Good Luck

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wonder how this law works for those of us who rent property ?

 

My Wife and I are both on our rental agreement (Bangkok)... I regularly in and out of Thailand.... 

 

The owners of my Condo do not live in country. Would I have to submit the TM30 repot reach time I return (or someone on behalf of the Condo owners) ?

 

This seems like one of those particularly inane regulations which most if not all ignore and then face frustration when someone in authority feigns affront over abuse against the 'system' !..... 

Most immigration offices don't expect a TM30 form every time you leave and re-enter the country. They correctly consider it a one time requirement unless you move.

Bangkok immigration do not ask for one.

 

[kingstonkid]

Pathum Thani in the past has not worried about it.  Usually GF comes with me and shows them her book

[teacherpaul]

6 hours ago, MalandLee said:

No UbonJoe, there is no fee WHATSOEVER associated with this, in fact their stay actually costs us a small amount in increased utility charges. We also drive them to local attractions - many of which are off the tourist map. Plus we often pick up from the train, airport, bus, etc.. for FREE.

Subjective I know, but our local community has benefited from "new money" being spent on a variety of purchases within the village. Not sure what (if any) downsides there are - but I am certain someone will think of some.

 

My British friend is aware of my wife's "fine" - he is retired here with his British wife - they are to be hosting their relatives, Son, daughter(s) and respective spouses/children.  They are "sticklers" for doing everything by the book - they too may be reading this thread with interest. As, I believe, they too must report their family to immigration???? - they did not know this.

They should make a contribution towards food and utility bills.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

They correctly consider it a one time requirement unless you move.

Form requires for each foreign occupant an expiration date of stay.

Since stays cannot exceed one year and must be extended to a new expiration date, it would seem the form must be updated and submitted with any changes.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Form requires for each foreign occupant an expiration date of stay.

Since stays cannot exceed one year and must be extended to a new expiration date, it would seem the form must be updated and submitted with any changes.

Not as far as I know. Form is really only meant to report people on short stays.

I just completed my 9th extension based upon marriage application last month and have never been asked for one.

[MalandLee]

24 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Form requires for each foreign occupant an expiration date of stay.

Since stays cannot exceed one year and must be extended to a new expiration date, it would seem the form must be updated and submitted with any changes.

I have the form here - got it today after Ubonjoe's advice. I cannot see "expiration date of stay" on the form. Maybe I have a different form?

 

Anyhow we have been caught once & paid twice (see previous posts).

 

We have decided we will not allow any more young tourists in our house. Close down Couchsurfing and Warmshowers.

 

BTW Amongst others: We hosted two Thai people in Australia, they both were nice young kids & appreciated the experience – we took them to places they would never have seen as tourists.

 

Fortunately for us/them the OZ Gov had no interest in who stayed in our home….

 

 

[Srikcir]

3 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

Maybe I have a different form?

Form TM30, page two "Name of Aliens in Residence," column six from the left.

 

[MalandLee]

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Form TM30, page two "Name of Aliens in Residence," column six from the left.

 

 

I stand corrected...

[returnofthailand]

so if I invite a farang friend to my home for a night , I must report him?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, returnofthailand said:

so if I invite a farang friend to my home for a night , I must report him?

Not really since it is not enforced. They don't go around to peoples home looking to see if they have guests.

[dotpoom]

• "Foreigner staying in Thai house - Couchsurfing - do I need a work permit"?

        Where does the "work-permit" bit come in?

[MalandLee]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not really since it is not enforced. They don't go around to peoples home looking to see if they have guests.

I "think" Ubonjoe is correct, an occasional guest in a big city is a non event, however a stream of Couchsurfers OR Warmshower guests in a small village, could attract the "bitter & twisted" that exist in every society and you may be reported....

Which is why we have chosen our course of action. TECHNICALLY you should report everyone - is what I was told today.

[smotherb]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Unless your guests need to do something at immigration you should not have a problem for not reporting them by submitting a TM30 form. 

I base this on the assumption your are not operating as a hotel or guesthouse.

Couldn't providing sleeping and toilet accommodation be considered operating as a hotel?

[MalandLee]

Just now, smotherb said:

Couldn't providing sleeping and toilet accommodation be considered operating as a hotel?

NO

[MalandLee]

9 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

• "Foreigner staying in Thai house - Couchsurfing - do I need a work permit"?

        Where does the "work-permit" bit come in?

Could you please quote where ANY post says work permit

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

• "Foreigner staying in Thai house - Couchsurfing - do I need a work permit"?

        Where does the "work-permit" bit come in?

 

6 minutes ago, MalandLee said:

Could you please quote where ANY post says work permit

That is how it is written in the newsletter. A news editors error.

Link to newsletter: http://newsletter.thaivisa.com/w/b541QdABeRKd2uYkRdpS6Q/GqO7cTr5rscAtvOrMfwaig/uE892kCEe8922KhZCD9v763Cq7yQ

[steve0367]

I am a little confused about this. Most times I travel to Thailand I say in my wife's home and list her address on the entry card all the time wether I am staying there or not. Is this going to be a issue at some stage?

[MalandLee]

1 minute ago, steve0367 said:

I am a little confused about this. Most times I travel to Thailand I say in my wife's home and list her address on the entry card all the time wether I am staying there or not. Is this going to be a issue at some stage?

It was for me 8 weeks ago. To put it in perspective I needed a certificate of residence for my drivers licence, this triggered a search and it was discovered my wife had not registered me as a foreign occupant of a Thai house - SHE was fined B800.

[Kopitiam]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Most immigration offices don't expect a TM30 form every time you leave and re-enter the country. They correctly consider it a one time requirement unless you move.

Bangkok immigration do not ask for one.

 

Most immigration offices don't expect a TM30 form every time you leave and re-enter the country.  But you are required to inform them that you are back in your residence (even you have not moved).  I learned from first hand experience, last year when I tried to extend my permit to stay, the IO could not key in my application.  I was told that I have left and re-entered the country and have not re-confirmed my residence again.  I have to make a copy of my passport and a copy of my new disembarkation card (white card) for them to update my new data.  I was told by the IO that even if I have gone to stay in a hotel and the hotel has registered my stay with them to immigration, I too am expected to re-confirm my residence again.  Its a pain in the butt.

[manfredtillmann]

no two immigration offices - or officers - are the same. what is written might apply - or might not. who enforces what is different from region to region and town to town. what applies in udon does not necessarily apply in in ubon and what you get away with in nakhon rat... you will be fined for in nakhon pha....

 

this is the most important lesson to learn about thailand.

 

my police station happily does the tm30 and the next week, when i go to immigration with the thing stapled into my passport, my wife gets fined for not having done it.

i go to laos for 2 days or stay in a hotel in a different town for 1 night - and immigration INSISTS on doing the whole tm30 thing, with heaven knows how many photo copies of this and that, again.

there are no universally valid rules in thailand! ask your local immigration how to deal with this issue - and follow their advise.

that will be the only way you will know you are ok - until you have to deal with a new officer there...

 

[BlindMagician]

2 minutes ago, manfredtillmann said:

no two immigration offices - or officers - are the same. what is written might apply - or might not. who enforces what is different from region to region and town to town. what applies in udon does not necessarily apply in in ubon and what you get away with in nakhon rat... you will be fined for in nakhon pha....

 

this is the most important lesson to learn about thailand.

 

my police station happily does the tm30 and the next week, when i go to immigration with the thing stapled into my passport, my wife gets fined for not having done it.

i go to laos for 2 days or stay in a hotel in a different town for 1 night - and immigration INSISTS on doing the whole tm30 thing, with heaven knows how many photo copies of this and that, again.

there are no universally valid rules in thailand! ask your local immigration how to deal with this issue - and follow their advise.

that will be the only way you will know you are ok - until you have to deal with a new officer there...

 

Same same or not same same, that is the question, whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune....

...LoS TIT, how can we mere mortals cope with such.