Obama reminds Beijing tribunal ruling on South China Sea is ‘binding’

[webfact]

Obama reminds Beijing tribunal ruling on South China Sea is ‘binding’

 

 

VIENTIANE: -- Barack Obama has reminded China that an international ruling rejecting Beijing’s territorial claims in the South China Sea is “binding”.

 

Speaking at a summit of Southeast Asian leaders in Laos, the US president said he recognised the matter raised tensions which he hoped could be eased.

 

Washington has looked to the ASEAN gathering to strengthen its ties with countries in the region in the face of Beijing’s growing influence.

 

“ASEAN is key to the US ‘rebalance’ to Asia and more importantly is key to a peaceful and prosperous future for the world,” the US president said. “With respect to maritime issues, we’ll continue to work to ensure that disputes are resolved peacefully including in the South China Sea. The landmark arbitration ruling in July, which is binding, helped to clarify maritime rights in the region.”

 

A statement from the 10 leaders at the summit played down the tensions which have set China at odds with countries such as the Philippines, Vietnam and Japan.

 

Beijing has vowed to ignore the verdict in July by an international tribunal in The Haguesaying that Chinese territorial claims had “no legal basis”.

 

China, the strongest power in the region has continued to re-claim land on several disputed reefs through dredging, and building airfields and port facilities – while objecting to what it calls “interference” from countries outside.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-09-09

[rijb]

I doubt if he even read the topic.

[Usernames]

The Chinese aren't listening to Obama.  Heck they wouldn't even let him exit his plane through the front door at the G20.

[derator01]

Several off topic and bickering posts have been removed from view.  Please stick to the topic and abide by forum rules.

[Publicus]

15 minutes ago, Caps said:

I do not disagree with you but it also states in the topic that China objects of what is calls interference from outside countries, that is what i commented on.  So it is about the topic.

Unless of course you want to delete the last paragraph on the topic? 

 

Topic is the title of the piece, which is...

 

Obama reminds Beijing tribunal ruling on South China Sea is ‘binding’

 

CCP has absolutely rejected the ruling of the Tribunal. The Tribunal is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague. Philippines filed a complaint against the People's Republic of China there objecting to the nine dashed line of Beijing that claims 80% of the South China Sea as sovereign Chinese territory, the claims by CCP that certain features in the Sea are islands with a 200 mile Exclusive Economic Zone, and that CCP have raped the environment to construct artificial islands on reefs and other rocks that are not islands.

 

The PCA ruling agreed with the Phils 100% that Beijing is in legal violation of the United Nations Convention (Treaty) on the Law of the Sea, which Beijing had signed on to in 1996. Everything after the title, aka headline, are details pursuant to the title. Your last paragraph is a piece of the whole. It is not the topic per se.

 

President Obama reminded CCP Dictators in Beijing they are in a violation of the UNCLOS and that their defiance is unlawful, illegal and it is an arrogant anarchy -- and that the PCA ruling is legally binding on the PRC due to the fact it is a signatory of the Convention.

 

Under UNCLOS the South China Sea is an international waterway of the global commons on the high seas which means no one owns it. CCP Dictators in Beijing are violating the EEZ 200 mile territoriality of several Asean countries, namely, the Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam.

 

President Obama said CCP needs to stop it and respect the UNCLOS and the sovereignty of the violated nations. CCP says to screw off. So we're going to have it out between us.

 

Got it?

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, Publicus said:

 

Topic is the title of the piece, which is...

 

Obama reminds Beijing tribunal ruling on South China Sea is ‘binding’

 

CCP has absolutely rejected the ruling of the Tribunal. The Tribunal is the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague. Philippines filed a complaint against the People's Republic of China there objecting to the nine dashed line of Beijing that claims 80% of the South China Sea as sovereign Chinese territory, the claims by CCP that certain features in the Sea are islands with a 200 mile Exclusive Economic Zone, and that CCP have raped the environment to construct artificial islands on reefs and other rocks that are not islands.

 

The PCA ruling agreed with the Phils 100% that Beijing is in legal violation of the United Nations Convention (Treaty) on the Law of the Sea, which Beijing had signed on to in 1996. Everything after the title, aka headline, are details pursuant to the title. Your last paragraph is a piece of the whole. It is not the topic per se.

 

President Obama reminded CCP Dictators in Beijing they are in a violation of the UNCLOS and that their defiance is unlawful, illegal and it is an arrogant anarchy -- and that the PCA ruling is legally binding on the PRC due to the fact it is a signatory of the Convention.

 

Under UNCLOS the South China Sea is an international waterway of the global commons on the high seas which means no one owns it. CCP Dictators in Beijing are violating the EEZ 200 mile territoriality of several Asean countries, namely, the Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam.

 

President Obama said CCP needs to stop it and respect the UNCLOS and the sovereignty of the violated nations. CCP says to screw off. So we're going to have it out between us.

 

Got it?

 

The Chinese could hardly care less what Obama has said.   Idi Amin Dada had more credibility (and Donald Duck more clout).

[natway09]

ASEAN countries cannot even agree on this, so Obama's  words are a waste of breath. (unfortunately)

[elgordo38]

5 hours ago, Usernames said:

The Chinese aren't listening to Obama.  Heck they wouldn't even let him exit his plane through the front door at the G20.

Yes Obama's  naivtivity is definitely showing.  He is trying to talk legalise to someone who smiles but lives by his own rules the world ruling means nothing to him. He will make a feeble effort to try and negotiate with the Philippines to enhance his so called world image but in the end and like the Hong Kong elections its his way or the highway. You can not deal with people using the Marquis of Queensbury rules when they are playing by the Marquis de Sade rules. It will never ever work. He smiles at you and treats you like dirt under his feet when you land you are just a means to a communist end. Your nothing really but a small speed bump on his roadmap for the world. World domination. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by elgordo38

[Credo]

The key word in the OP is 'reminds' Beijing.   It also reminds the rest of them that the US is willing to work with the area on territorial issues (and to keep shipping lanes open).   His remarks are also heard by a larger audience and it is in part to gauge the attitude of other world leaders on the issue.

 

China is not likely to start a military incident because their entire economy is based on exports.   Sanctions could cause a lot of problems and not just for the Chinese.

 

Asia, as it has gotten richer, has invested a lot in military hardware.   All those toys, mixed with a whole lot of boys, could see something untoward happen eventually.   

 

But it could be worse.   Kim Jong Un could be laying claim to some of these waters and then we would see a very confusing situation.   

[chilli42]

Why is this Obama's fault?  Do you think that the Chinese would wet their pants if Trump were saying this?  Think again.

[LawrenceChee]

It's binding ....as China has not ratified the court that gave the ruling , the only binding thing is what is defined by the media unfortunately

The Chinese will learn to ignore the ruling like USA did decades ago and brush it off with a trade deal with Philippines




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[impulse]

30 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

It's binding ....as China has not ratified the court that gave the ruling , the only binding thing is what is defined by the media unfortunately

The Chinese will learn to ignore the ruling like USA did decades ago and brush it off with a trade deal with Philippines

 

You mean like the Japanese did to the League of Nations?  Didn't work out so well for them, did it?  

 

Kind of ironic that the shoe's on the other foot and China's the aggressor this time.  Yes, aggressor.  There's really no other way to describe their behavior on this issue.  

 

Last time, China begged the USA to intervene.  This time, no so much.

 

And just like last time, the USA is the only thing keeping the aggressor from walking all over the little guys (and getting away with it).

Edited September 9, 2016 by impulse

[kingalfred]

What's US Pres doing at this Summit of ASEAN ?

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

It's binding ....as China has not ratified the court that gave the ruling , the only binding thing is what is defined by the media unfortunately

The Chinese will learn to ignore the ruling like USA did decades ago and brush it off with a trade deal with Philippines
Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Defined by the media?  Really?  So the ruling by a  panel of experts in a well respected organization made after significant research means nothing?

 

Sounds like a quote from the Chinese state run media.

[craigt3365]

40 minutes ago, kingalfred said:

What's US Pres doing at this Summit of ASEAN ?

The US is kinda close to Asia.  And does a lot of business here.  We do live in a global society.  These things matter.

[LawrenceChee]

Defined by the media?  Really?  So the ruling by a  panel of experts in a well respected organization made after significant research means nothing?

 

Sounds like a quote from the Chinese state run media.

Have a look at what USA did the last time this same tribunal met about their illegal action against Nicaragua ...on this case the China have copied most of the action minus the killings and fundings of illegal actions

But what the USA did , ignoring the tribunal, ignoring the UN twice and later paid off another elected government in Nicaragua to forget about the issue is exactly what China is following now ; except instead of payments its negotiating trade with Philippines

The USA can say what it wants and like i posted before Obama is a nice guy and respected in China ...so they just ignore this. If this was foul mouth Trump , they may have said something else

Hard for USA to say anything it's lost the moral ground decades ago doing the same thing as the only big guy in the Caribbean

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[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, kingalfred said:

What's US Pres doing at this Summit of ASEAN ?

 

Canvassing for a job next year?

[impulse]

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

Since WWII , there has been very few military incursions by USA that can be defined as helpful or wanted

Every single one has led to deaths , families and civilians being bombed and in a worse domestic situation

 

Can't disagree with you, but that's not the topic here, is it?

 

1 hour ago, LawrenceChee said:

The only happy folks clapping is the Defence industries in USA that has made billions in profits and will keep influencing politics in USA for more Hawks so that their quarterly revenue goals are met and more civilian misery

 

And the Filipinos and the Vietnamese and the Taiwanese and the Japanese and the Aussies, and the others who seem to warming up to the idea of inviting more yucky US bases to their soil.  

 

And in 20 years, it could be the Thais who are suddenly reminded that Bangkok was an important port for a Chinese Dynasty on a 400 year old map, giving China the indisputable right to annex Thailand, no matter what the World Courts say.  Because they're big and tough enough without those pesky Yanks.

 

Personally, I think we ought to let them all pay for their own defense.  We'd extend them credit, of course.  Then maybe we can afford free health care for everyone, like our allies can when they don't pay for their own defense.

[LawrenceChee]

ASEAN have been good at extracting free aid by playing all the big boys here including China

It's the reality ....


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[kennw]

Stupid comment not worthy of posting

[Publicus]

5 hours ago, kingalfred said:

What's US Pres doing at this Summit of ASEAN ?

 

Asean long ago issued a standing invitation to Potus, China, Japan, Australia, NZ, South Korea. 

 

Do try to keep up plse thx.

[Publicus]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

Have a look at what USA did the last time this same tribunal met about their illegal action against Nicaragua ...on this case the China have copied most of the action minus the killings and fundings of illegal actions

But what the USA did , ignoring the tribunal, ignoring the UN twice and later paid off another elected government in Nicaragua to forget about the issue is exactly what China is following now ; except instead of payments its negotiating trade with Philippines

The USA can say what it wants and like i posted before Obama is a nice guy and respected in China ...so they just ignore this. If this was foul mouth Trump , they may have said something else

Hard for USA to say anything it's lost the moral ground decades ago doing the same thing as the only big guy in the Caribbean

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Nicaragua is not involved in the SCS disputes.

 

(In Nicaragua v United States (1986) the International Court of Justice ruled for Nicaragua, then Nicaragua later withdrew the complaint and it received US compensation. The case had nothing to do with the UNCLOS. Neither did the US Government denounce, dismiss nor reject the ICJ per se, nor did the USA deny the ICJ's remit or jurisdiction. CCP Dictators in Beijing are however and in contrast doing doing all of this and more in respect of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague in its ruling for the Philippines against People's Republic of China (2016) and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in the South China Sea. CCP says UNCLOS which it signed in 1996 does not apply to it and that ILOS is irrelevant and immaterial to CCP in the SCS. Note: US did appear before the ICJ to argue, CCP completely boycotted the PCA and never once appeared before it in this case.)

 

The Nicaragua-USA case at the ICJ was a Cold War case. This case of the Phils v CCP Dictators is a case of territoriality of the coastal zones of nations and the UNCLOS rules and laws which also define international waters on the high seas and the freedom of navigation as both factors affect all nations.

 

PCA rulings are legally binding on governments as PCA functions in conjunction with the ICJ. Both operate in conjunction with the United Nations and its varied and numerous Conventions in a multiplicity of subject areas. The applicable UN Convention in this instance of the SCS is the International Law of the Sea.

 

CCP in Beijing are a member of the international system either formally or informally or they are not. It is not a cafeteria. Presently, in the SCS disputes, Beijing is not a functioning member of the UNCLOS to which it is a signatory. Moreover, CCP have violated every agreement they have signed with Asean in respect of mutually agreed rules process, procedure, conduct in the SCS. 

[Publicus]

 

China the outlaw nation of rogue dictators.

[hawker9000]

9 hours ago, chilli42 said:

Why is this Obama's fault?  Do you think that the Chinese would wet their pants if Trump were saying this?  Think again.

 

It's Obama's fault, obviously, because he let it progress to this point whilst playing golf...   'Would've been easy to start directly overflying these sites with military aircraft, and steaming naval vessels within yards of them while conducting open-ocean exercises, making it clear from the very start that their status as Chinese territory would never be recognized.  Bringing some allies onboard the effort urging them to do the same thing would've shown some leadership, statesmanship & vision as well.  But no. He waited until construction was complete and even then treated it as an FON thing. And now they're militarized with missiles and aircraft.  So at this point it's too late to do much of anything but whine.  He does excel at that though.

[Publicus]

1 hour ago, hawker9000 said:

 

It's Obama's fault, obviously, because he let it progress to this point whilst playing golf...   'Would've been easy to start directly overflying these sites with military aircraft, and steaming naval vessels within yards of them while conducting open-ocean exercises, making it clear from the very start that their status as Chinese territory would never be recognized.  Bringing some allies onboard the effort urging them to do the same thing would've shown some leadership, statesmanship & vision as well.  But no. He waited until construction was complete and even then treated it as an FON thing. And now they're militarized with missiles and aircraft.  So at this point it's too late to do much of anything but whine.  He does excel at that though.

 

Obama bashers keep showing up everywhere as if they were a pandemic virus. 

 

 

Would've been easy to start directly overflying these sites with military aircraft,

 

USAF Hawk recon drones had been operating over the disputed SCS features and actual islands from 2011 until early last year. CCP tried unsuccessfully to take one down in shallow waters off an island as a prize. Hawk however is programmed to receive all signals to divert as instructions to continue the mission, so CCP threw up its hands. Since early last year the Hawk drone was succeeded in the SCS recon missions by the P-8A Poseidon recon jet craft.

 

 

steaming naval vessels within yards of them while conducting open-ocean exercises,

 

Been doing that several years. The FON operations within the 12 nm of CCP artificial islands by USN destroyers assert that there is no recognised CCP sovereignty. President Obama shut down CCP in the East Sea where from 2009 -2013 CCP and Japan/US Navy bumped, collided with and fire hosed back and forth over the Senkaku islands of Japan. CCP finally quit and turned full time to the SCS where it figured it might have some better luck.

 

 

making it clear from the very start that their status as Chinese territory would never be recognized.

 

They are not recognised. Pres. Obama got the Philippines to file against CCP at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague and we know the outcome of that, i.e., a ruling 100% against CCP in the SCS. Busted by USA statecraft.

 

 

Bringing some allies onboard the effort urging them to do the same thing would've shown some leadership, statesmanship & vision as well.

 

President Obama has developed strategic partnerships with India, Vietnam, Malaysia in addition to having the formal treaty allies of Japan, South Korea, the Phils, Australia, NZ. Asean lines up against CCP 8-2. It is not the fault of the USA that the PM of Australia is the weakest foreign policy and national security PM since the Ho Chi Minh mate Geoff Whitlam. Whitlam was deposed by order of the Australian Governor General and a new election ordered which produced a pro-US government in Canberra. Deja vu sooner or later in one way or another for current Chinaphile PM Malcom Turnbull. The Chinaphile PM Kevin Rudd had already got the boot.

 

 

CCP seized the Paracel Islands off Vietnam in three PLA assaults: in 1974, 1976, 1988. CCP started operating in the Spratlys off the southernmost Philippines throughout the Bush-Cheney administration which had been busy running business for profit in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

 

SecDef Bob Gates never gave a hoot about SCS. Chuck Hegel came over here a few times and got blown off by CCP. Now the hawk SecDef Ashton Carter and the hawk Susan Rice are in charge of this side of things.

 

Scarborough Shoal 180 miles off Luzon island is the place Barack Obama has told Xi Jinping face to face and more than once is off limits. Likewise the Senkaku islands of Japan. Pres. Obama has told Xi construction at Scarborough would bring "consequences" and "action" as a response. SecDef Carter has said the same thing over here several times now.

 

Now that all the summits and conferences are concluded, everyone is waiting for the other shoe to drop. If you are right I'll let you know. If I am right I'll let you know. Count on it.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Publicus
Typos

[JHolmesJr]

8 hours ago, kingalfred said:

What's US Pres doing at this Summit of ASEAN ?

 

He's learning a new dance....how to pivot. 

[hawker9000]

2 hours ago, Publicus said:

 

Obama bashers keep showing up everywhere as if they were a pandemic virus. 

 

 

Would've been easy to start directly overflying these sites with military aircraft,

 

USAF Hawk recon drones had been operating over the disputed SCS features and actual islands from 2011 until early last year. CCP tried unsuccessfully to take one down in shallow waters off an island as a prize. Hawk however is programmed to receive all signals to divert as instructions to continue the mission, so CCP threw up its hands. Since early last year the Hawk drone was succeeded in the SCS recon missions by the P-8A Poseidon recon jet craft.

 

 

steaming naval vessels within yards of them while conducting open-ocean exercises,

 

Been doing that several years. The FON operations within the 12 nm of CCP artificial islands by USN destroyers assert that there is no recognised CCP sovereignty. President Obama shut down CCP in the East Sea where from 2009 -2013 CCP and Japan/US Navy bumped, collided with and fire hosed back and forth over the Senkaku islands of Japan. CCP finally quit and turned full time to the SCS where it figured it might have some better luck.

 

 

making it clear from the very start that their status as Chinese territory would never be recognized.

 

They are not recognised. Pres. Obama got the Philippines to file against CCP at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague and we know the outcome of that, i.e., a ruling 100% against CCP in the SCS. Busted by USA statecraft.

 

 

Bringing some allies onboard the effort urging them to do the same thing would've shown some leadership, statesmanship & vision as well.

 

President Obama has developed strategic partnerships with India, Vietnam, Malaysia in addition to having the formal treaty allies of Japan, South Korea, the Phils, Australia, NZ. Asean lines up against CCP 8-2. It is not the fault of the USA that the PM of Australia is the weakest foreign policy and national security PM since the Ho Chi Minh mate Geoff Whitlam. Whitlam was deposed by order of the Australian Governor General and a new election ordered which produced a pro-US government in Canberra. Deja vu sooner or later in one way or another for current Chinaphile PM Malcom Turnbull. The Chinaphile PM Kevin Rudd had already got the boot.

 

 

CCP seized the Paracel Islands off Vietnam in three PLA assaults: in 1974, 1976, 1988. CCP started operating in the Spratlys off the southernmost Philippines throughout the Bush-Cheney administration which had been busy running business for profit in Afghanistan and Iraq. 

 

SecDef Bob Gates never gave a hoot about SCS. Chuck Hegel came over here a few times and got blown off by CCP. Now the hawk SecDef Ashton Carter and the hawk Susan Rice are in charge of this side of things.

 

Scarborough Shoal 180 miles off Luzon island is the place Barack Obama has told Xi Jinping face to face and more than once is off limits. Likewise the Senkaku islands of Japan. Pres. Obama has told Xi construction at Scarborough would bring "consequences" and "action" as a response. SecDef Carter has said the same thing over here several times now.

 

Now that all the summits and conferences are concluded, everyone is waiting for the other shoe to drop. If you are right I'll let you know. If I am right I'll let you know. Count on it.

RE: Overflights...

Am aware of the Global Hawk missions being flown over the S. China Sea generally, but not over (as in DIRECTLY OVER) these man-made islands specifically. Please provide a link.  Thanks.

 

RE: Steaming naval vessels....

I said YARDS, not the 12NM+ clearance used for Obama's useless FON cruises, which are actually counter-productive as they implicitly recognize the territoriality of the waters through which the "innocent passage" is made.  IOW, something that specifically violates 20, 12 and 3 NM limits.  You dance very well, but don't seem to read what others write to the same standards.

 

RE:  Making it clear...

Obama did no such thing.  The Philippines initiated the case on its own and in its own interests. 

 

RE:  Bringing allies...

You toss the term around quite loosely.  None of these "allies" you mention has done any more than the U.S. has militarily speaking.  Yeah - there's been whining.   And Obama declaring "off-limits" is as laughable as his red lines.  The Chinese have never taken him seriously.  Nor, for the most part, does most of the rest of the world.  ONE of these so-called "allies" just got done openly and personally insulting him with a racial slur delivered in open forum! 

 

Yeah, they do prick up their ears a little when he starts paying billion dollar+ ransoms...    

 

Obama, his spinmeisters and his sycophantic fanboys ARE a virus!

 

[Publicus]

 

@ hawker9000

 

You posted: The Philippines initiated the case on its own and in its own interests. 

 

The filing at the PCA was the statecraft of the Philippines, USA, Japan working together to take the SCS issues to the UN under the Convention on the Law of the Sea. 

 

The Obama bashers are not interested in the facts. They're interested only is mangling everything into it being Obama's fault. 

[craigt3365]

12 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

Since WWII , there has been very few military incursions by USA that can be defined as helpful or wanted

Every single one has led to deaths , families and civilians being bombed and in a worse domestic situation

The only happy folks clapping is the Defence industries in USA that has made billions in profits and will keep influencing politics in USA for more Hawks so that their quarterly revenue goals are met and more civilian misery

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

The people in Kuwait might argue with you on this.

[LawrenceChee]

4 million for Kuwait ...

22 million for Syria , 37 million in Iraq , 30 million in Afghanistan ....

Odds are stacked that of Kuwait remained the 19th Iraq province if they have been worse off

In today's Syria world ...you have the Turks backing a group , Russians one group , USA one group and the Syrians themselves ...don't see how that is better


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